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Does the Bible Contradict Itself
This has definitely got to be one of the hottest issues today. When debating, please give a real reason for why you believe that way. And also, please don't insult other members of the debate, period.
2 sam 23:8 "These are the names of David’s mighty warriors:Josheb-Basshebeth,[a] a Tahkemonite,[b] was chief of the Three; he raised his spear against eight hundred men, whom he killed[c] in one encounter."
1 chron 11:11 "this is the list of David’s mighty warriors:Jashobeam,[b] a Hakmonite, was chief of the officers[c]; he raised his spear against three hundred men, whom he killed in one encounter."
Are you assuming that the two numbers were of the same event? It could easily be two separate events in which the same person killed 300 men and at another time 800 men. However, even if it were one event, then it would not be contradictory at all because 300 men must be killed before 800 men could be killed. This could easily be the case as well. Some even claim "that he attacked a body of eight hundred, and, having slain three hundred of them, the rest fled."
What people mean by straw man is that a person takes the argument away from the logic progression of things and take it down to an illogical point in which the debater was not intending it to go to and destroy it from there.
This is not a straw man, what I have presented. I am not grasping at straws; there is no contradiction here.
LOL I just looked it up because honestly I never knew what it was exactly, and I agree with you it's not a straw man argument.
You are grasping at straws though. You are taking something cut and dry, two separate lines that say two different things about the same event, and you're taking up possibilities to justify the validity of the statement when they obviously contradict, and not overlap.
When a passage says "800 in a single blow" then turns right around and says "300 in a single blow", for a person to say "you have to kill 300 before you can kill 800" is a grade A definition of grasping at straws.
You are taking something cut and dry, two separate lines that say two different things about the same event, and you're taking up possibilities to justify the validity of the statement when they obviously contradict, and not overlap
You are assuming that they are the same event. Even if they were, though, it would not be grasping at straws. One might have witnessed 300 men being slain by him and then left and never heard that there were more and that, then, was passed down to others and was finally written down. There is, however, no contradiction here and not any sort of incorrectness.
Even if they were, though, it would not be grasping at straws. One might have witnessed 300 men being slain by him and then left and never heard that there were more and that, then, was passed down to others and was finally written down.
If one witnessed 300, then one other witnessed 800, and they are both written in the Bible, it's a contradiction. If I say yes, and you say no, we are contradicting each other you see how this works?
If one witnessed 300, then one other witnessed 800, and they are both written in the Bible, it's a contradiction. If I say yes, and you say no, we are contradicting each other you see how this works?
That is not a contradiction at all. 300 is a subset of 800. If one witnessed part of a battle, but not the ending or beginning, then he would be right in saying that the man slew 300 men. The one who watched the entire thing would be right in saying that it was 800 men.
Because he already smite that 300 people or that 800 people before so the chances of it happening again are slim to none.
If one witnessed part of a battle, but not the ending or beginning, then he would be right in saying that the man slew 300 men
It said it was a single hit. Meaning anyone who saw anything would have seen all 800. Unless 800 was a lie, the then they would have seen all 300, and all accounts should be the same.
Even if all accounts should be the same, if they are not, they are actually contradictions.
Two different books. Two different perspectives. To different authors. Whatever they thought was necessary to add they added. That is not a contradiction. The bible is not written by on person.
I feel like if we had 2 different history books describe an event with different numbers like this we would say they are contradictory. What is your opinion on that?
The books in the bible are not two history books. Thats the thing. They arent contradictory. They employ enough of what they think will captivate their audience. Thats the point. One may say 300 is enough and he may have only seen 300. The second may have seen 800 and thought that number may have a better impact. They understand rhetorical skills and literary skills. You cannot forget that.
I agree, but it seems like people are using them that way, so I made the comparison.
Thats the thing. They arent contradictory. They employ enough of what they think will captivate their audience. Thats the point. One may say 300 is enough and he may have only seen 300. The second may have seen 800 and thought that number may have a better impact. They understand rhetorical skills and literary skills. You cannot forget that.
I would expect the same response about a book of fiction. Captivating the audience and all. I am confused at how the Bible can be used the way it is without these rules.
Is there an easy way to tell if the book in the Bible is the word of God, or if it is recollections of history?
You would expect that in fiction? You should expect this in all forms of good writing not fiction. The bible is supposed to be the journey through history and the history in the bible hasnt ended yet.
I meant that fiction can change the numbers to make things more captivating. I would think that with non fiction you report the correct numbers. The captivating comes from how it is written.
True but I didn't really had the time to because I forgot the website and didn't know where to look until it appeared again and also another reason is because I had school work that I was doing and other things.
Whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there; if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
Proverbs 15:3
The eyes of the Lord are in every place.
Jeremiah 16:17
For mine eyes are upon all their ways: they are not hid from my face, neither is their iniquity hid from mine eyes.
Jeremiah 23:24
Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth?
Acts 1:24
Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men.
1 John 3:20
God ... knoweth all things.
(THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT GOD DOESN'T KNOW AND CAN'T SEE!)
Genesis 3:8
And Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord, amongst the trees of the garden.
Genesis 4:14-16
Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid. (v.14)
And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. (v.16)
Genesis 11:5
And the Lord came down to see the city and the town.
Genesis 18:9
And they said unto him, Where is Sarah thy wife? And he said, Behold, in the tent.
Genesis 18:17-21
And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do? (v.17)
And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous, I will go down now and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and, if not, I will know. (vv.20-21)
Genesis 22:12
For now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
Genesis 32:27
And he [God] said unto him [Jacob], What is thy name?
Numbers 22:9
And God came unto Balaam, and said, What men are these with thee?
Deuteronomy 8:2
God led thee these forty years in the wilderness ... to know what what in thine heart.
Deuteronomy 13:3
The Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God.
2 Chronicles 32:31
God left him, to try him, that he might know all that was in his heart.
Job 1:7, 2:2
And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, from going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Hosea 8:4
They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not.
Jonah 1:3, 10
But Jonah rose up to flee unto Tarshish from the presence of the LORD ... For the men knew that he fled from the presence of the LORD, because he had told them.
The Bible uses personification for God a lot of the times so that His people can relate to Him more so. God is all-knowing but when He sees something or knows something in the below verses, it is referring to a more personal sense of it, in which He literally manifests Himself and goes to the location to see it or it is a special focusing on by God at a particular moment. There is no contradiction here.
Sorry but I can't quite comprehend with GOD personality however the people from faith try to convince me. its too much contradicting with what HE is.
MERCIFUL LOVING ALL KNOWING GOD
and
CRUEL WAR LOVING TORTURER LIMITED KNOWLEDGE
It doesn't make sense to me from the first part of the bible, about adam & eve.
If he is all knowing.. why he plant the "forbidden fruit" not knowing the consequences?
He seems to create life just to test them faith, whether to worship and listen to him or not.. whether we find out the one true religion among hundreds of them and each of them claiming the one true religion. And yet God don't know the results. He is TESTING and EXPERIMENTING. Doesn't make sense to me.
I don't want to argue this with people from faith because they keep saying "free will" "Gods test" "evil" "temptation" "sin of adam & eve" and all sort of that absurd thing which is all just psychological delusion to me.
God is loving and all-knowing and wrathful. That is not a contradiction. He does not love all and He does not put forth His wrath to all. Read Romans 9.
Adam and Eve makes perfect sense even in an evolutionary mindset.
God did know the consequences of what the fruit would cause. He preordained for all to happen. Testing is for humans to come to God; read Psalm 107.
I don't believe in free will. I am a Christian. Free will is a direct contradiction to the Bible.
You do know that he is, as stated in the bible, Alpha and Omega. The beggining and the end. Please show the that all that means he cant see because it seems to me the author is still trying to sway the reader in looking deeper in the book. You have not shown anything that says he doesnt know. The presence of the lord is everywhere but there heart can flea and practically hide. That doesnt mean that God cant find you. Especially if he already knows you are there and will be.
If they did there wouldnt be useless contradictions here. Religion doesnt make one less intelligent. After all. You are only learning anothers mans logic.
No where in the Bible can a contradiction be found. What I have seen is that atheists tend not to know what a contradiction truly is. A contradiction is one in which A equals not A (A=~A). Anything other than that is a complementary passage.
A wife of whordeoms whoredom is at the very least having sex with people for money. If your wife is having sex with other people for money, she's committing adultery.
This still shows me that God greatly wanted her delivered then or than certain women delivered. This isnt changing my view point nor the truth of that story in the bible.
This was all I needed to know this was over. That's a blatant statement of opinion, showing your reading between the lines, or your own interpretation. In other words, it's a denial of what's being said to suit your needs.
Just like lolsgag or something did about the 300 men slain in a single blow, that became 800 men slain in a single blow.
You cannot debate biblical truth if one cannot understand the main key pieces of the writers, the writing, God, or the message at all. The statement is not blatant but in fact just the truth about the bible. But I shall end this. No progress has been made and trying to explain myself is futile since people simply continue to deny whatever a christian or a knowledgable person of christian understandings does.
It has ended indeed. The reason is because logic, and faith operate on two different wavelengths, a fact I already knew, yet I ridiculously charged into this debate neglecting that.
To a logical person it's contradictory. A lot of it is.
To a person using faith it isn't. As I do not have that faith, I don't understand why, but I accept that it is.
The passage it'self as it is shown shows God telling Hosea to take a wife that is a whore and is loose, yet those who want to find something in it, can, and that's nothing to be ashamed of.
As I said, they are two different paths, that really shouldn't intertwine.
Thats not logic and there is no faith involved. It is just a complication of what it actually means. He is going to deliver the woman. The bible is just saying that you dont need a high esteemed wife to be happy and so God told him to take a wife like her and he will deliver her from unmarried sex and thats it. It does not say adultery is okay.
You didn't see the categories? Some of them were "Nicest Debater", "Most Respectable", etc. Things that you do on principle. Plus when it comes to a vote, all it takes is confidence in the people. The people love you, I stand against them.
Thou shalt not commit adultery is a statement condemning adultery it is saying quite literally do not do it.
Take a wife of whoredomes is telling one to take a wife that is committing adultery, praising the wife that does it. So is adultery good or bad. Take a wife of whoredomes suggest good, thou shalt not suggest bad.
The wife is not married the man is not married. The wife can commit it but not him. It is not praising her he is trying to deliver her from it. So it is still bad by biblical definition. This is a simple thing to see. I have already studied this. This is not a contradiction nor does it advocate adultery. God is delivering her from it. It does not advocate it in any sense. That does not suggest good as you say if she is meant to be delivered from her actions. So your claim is incorrect.
"Thou" does not assume a gender. "Thou" is all humanity. No one is to be adulterous. Is what the first passage says. The second passage says take a wife that is a whore. How do you not read that as an obvious contradiction?
God isn't havign her be saved, he's havign Hosea take a promiscuous (slutty) woman as his wife. One that he knows will sleep around. He's telling him that his actions are okay, and as the rest of that passage goes, according to the link, it was permitted so that he could teach the people of that sorrow.
If Hosea is a Godly man she will be covered God through marriage and thus not commit it. He is delivering her. It does not say it is okay. If a Godly man is told to take a wife of such status then God is delivering the woman. That is the point. This does not advocate adultery.
And even taking it at the bare minimum... There is no contradiction there to begin with. Committing adultery and taking a wife who is loose is not a contradiction.
That sites just asked questions. It didnt have any passages or anything. How can we debate against it if it just asks questions and doesnt actually pin point any "contradictions"?
Two different authors. Two different literary skill sets and two different styles of rhetoric that convey the same message. That is not a contradiction. The bible is not written by one person but by many. It still gives the same message. It is two different view points from two different people. You must realize that they are still two different people and are both still writers.
1) some historians believe that a couple of the gospels might be written by the same person due to many similarities in the writing styles.
2) it isn't just HOW they tell the story that's different, it's the story itself AND what god tells people. If this is the holy word of god and this is what's going to save me from hell then how can it have differences between authors? How can god contradict himself over and over? In one passage he tells you that cursing and coveting is OK but in another they're sins. Which is it?
Basically if they were separate disciples who all witnessed and wrote the same story then the way the stories are written should differ but all the facts should be the same.
Especially when talking about what Jesus said because they ALL were supposedly with him all the time, there should be no discrepancies here.
These contradictions are the work of men trying to alter the bible to get the message THEY wanted out there. And if the bible is the only thing god expects people to base their faith off of, he should've kept it in PERFECT condition instead of letting it be altered, added to, and mistranslated hundreds of times.
Afew gospels are. That doesnt chamge the fact that they deploy different forms of rhetoic. You are confusing messages for contradictions. You have to read the main point in both passages. Just like how the bible says wisdom is god and then bad because it deploys two different messages. All the facts cannot be the same sir. They see things from their perspective. You are taking away their personality. There are no real contrqdictions in the bible just failures to realize the critical point of the story and one must realize that there are two different writters in most books. Some things will be told from a separate perspective. That is not a contradiction. Now I am an Oreothiest so I dont follow the bible. But I know it is one of the greatest books in existence.
I know the perspectives, styles, and messages can and will be different. But the FACTS must remain consistent. Was there 300 soldiers or 800? There is no different message here, its just a straight up fact. Which is it? If the two gospel writers both witnessed the same thing, then it should be the same. There is nothing to interpret here. And this is just one of many contradictions.
And then more importantly theres the passages where it says "God says X is bad" and in another book it says "God says X is good". Again theres no message to interpret, its just a fact. Does god condone X or not? This is important because apparently if you dont do exactly as god says you go to hell.
Again the implied meaning behind that must be understood before one can claim a contradiction. Also this will be different if people see two different things. The same message however is still given which is apparently what god wants you to learn. When I see these contradictions I wonder if people have just memorized the bible or actually understand the main point of the book or chapter or even verse. They usually imply a certain situation.
No. These are personal accounts from different perspectives. This happens sometimes in non biblical things as well. 300 and 800 yes are different but one must wonder what literary skills or rhetorical skills do they use? What did each individual see and want to include to make their point. What did they truly see? This is why this one in particular is not truly a contradiction.
The first one you gave is not a contradiction. These are authors of different books. The bible is not written by one person. One can included whatever they think may appeal to the reader. They are writrers after all. The still understand some sort of literary or rhetorical skills. You second one doesnt make sense. You named two different people. What name are you trying to say?
Yes, they are writer or whatever. But they need to stick to the same fact or statistic. 300 and 800 is a huge gap. Even if they write it in different time, the fact shouldn't deviate.
The second is... you read the bible please.
1 KINGS 15
15:1 Now in the eighteenth year of king Jeroboam the son of Nebat reigned ABIJAM over Judah.
15:2 Three years reigned he in Jerusalem. And his MOTHER'S name was MAACHAH, the daughter of ABISHALOM.
2 CHRONICLES 13
13:1 Now in the eighteenth year of king Jeroboam began ABIJAH to reign over Judah.
13:2 He reigned three years in Jerusalem. His MOTHER'S name also was MICHAIAH the daughter of URIEL of Gibeah. And there was war between Abijah and Jeroboam.
No. 300 and 800 are two different perspectives and literary skills used to sway the audience. They are still writers. You are forgetting their place. Also your second example uses two different names and so I have no clue as to how that is a contradiction. You must realize that these people included whatever they wanted in order to portrait the same message.
Are you assuming that the two numbers were of the same event? It could easily be two separate events in which the same person killed 300 men and at another time 800 men. However, even if it were one event, then it would not be contradictory at all because 300 men must be killed before 800 men could be killed. This could easily be the case as well. Some even claim "that he attacked a body of eight hundred, and, having slain three hundred of them, the rest fled."
There is no contradiction here. Remember, a contradiction must be a clear A=~A, otherwise it is a complementary passage.
As to the mother issue: "the word 'daughter,' as in many similar cases, stands for granddaughter. Thus the father of Maachah was Uriel of Gibeah, and her mother Tamar, daughter of Absalom." http://biblehub.com/2chronicles/13-2.htm
That is too broad. I'm not going to type out the supposed 300+ contradictions and answer them as well. Pick your favorites one at a time and I will do my best to show you that they are not contradictions.
1) Are you assuming that the two numbers were of the same event? It could easily be two separate events in which the same person killed 300 men and at another time 800 men. However, even if it were one event, then it would not be contradictory at all because 300 men must be killed before 800 men could be killed. This could easily be the case as well. Some even claim "that he attacked a body of eight hundred, and, having slain three hundred of them, the rest fled."
Also, Matthew's explanation of it does not necessarily mean that the centurion was there. It could easily be that those who were representing him were there.
These aren't even talking about Baasha's death... They talk about the beginning of his reign, in 1 Kings, and about building a city, in 2 Chronicles. They don't tell the story in chronological order a lot of the times.
Hell yeah it does how can you deny that it does not LOL! I mean it once said to love your family but goes behind its back and says to hate it and the earth is round!!
