Debate Info

There is Ultimate Reality There is no Ultimate Reality
Debate Score:58
Total Votes:66
More Stats

Argument Ratio

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 There is Ultimate Reality (19)
 There is no Ultimate Reality (26)

Debate Creator

TzarPepe(793) pic

Does ultimate reality exist?

Merriam-Webster defines "God" as "The supreme and/or ultimate reality".

When someone makes the claim that there is no "God", they are literally saying, "There is no ultimate reality".

Ultimately, behind all the deception, this is what the God debate is truly about. People may claim all sorts of things about ultimate reality, and there are many different faiths that say different things about the ultimate reality. However, this is not a debate about doctrine. This is not a debate about whether or not this is an acceptable definition of the word "God". It is simply a debate about whether or not there is in fact an ultimate reality, knowable or not.

This is the God that I believe in. This is the God that I acknowledge. Whether or not you consider this God, do you or do you not believe in the existence of ultimate reality or not? Why?

There is Ultimate Reality

Side Score: 25

There is no Ultimate Reality

Side Score: 33
3 points

Not only does "ultimate reality" exist by definition, but to deny the existence of "ultimate reality" instantly renders any assertion, experience, theory, reasoning, etc. as invalid as any other. This of course is preposterous, because it is IMPOSSIBLE for there not to be an ultimate reality.

In other words, it is patently meaningless to say "There is no ultimate reality", as such a declaration instantly undermines itself.

Only a fool says in their heart, "There is no God". The scriptures do not say this in vain! It is the evident truth!

The God denier refuses to acknowledge this as the proper definition of God, but doesn't their denial of God predict this behavior? I believe it does.

I believe that everyone has already performed the necessary scientific experiment to prove conclusively that there is ultimate reality. The fact that you are experiencing anything at all is proof that there is some form of existence. Existence itself is proof that there is reality. If there is reality, there must be ultimate reality. Even if there are many different realities, there must be an ultimate reality that ties them all together.

The ultimate reality is by definition one. The ultimate reality is by definition the "realest" reality. It is the supreme being. The existence of "false" realities does not undermine the fact that even "false" realities have existence that is dependent on there being an ultimate reality.

If you are so foolish as to believe that the reality you experience is the only reality, you would be believing that your reality is the ultimate reality. To believe that there is reality is to believe that there is ultimate reality.

If you say that "There is no reality", you are saying "It is reality that there is no reality". It is self defeating.

In other words, there is really only one thing that you can be absolutely sure of from an epistemological standpoint. The existence of God. There is nothing else in science that has been proven so clearly beyond a shadow of a doubt. Anyone who says that God is impossible to prove scientifically is mistaken. Anyone who says that science has disproved God is absolutely mistaken. There is nothing surer. All of creation testifies of God, the evidence is OVERWHELMING.

The existence of God is surer than evolution, the sun being a big fiery ball in the sky, that the earth is round, that people have two arms, that plants grow out of the ground. You can be surer of God's existence than literally anything else you can know.

The only thing that science has also proven conclusively about God is that it is impossible to fully know God. This has been proven very thoroughly, especially in the last century of physics. That all said, nothing about this revelation is contradicted by biblical scripture. Quite the contrary, this has always been the biblical position.

So to all those God deniers, and would be God deniers... Understand the truth... The position you are taking is intellectually indefensible and utterly bankrupt. The position you are adopting is unreasonable, unsound, and downright crazy.

Side: There is Ultimate Reality
Antrim(1304) Clarified
1 point

I'm sure you're absolutely correct, but would you please define to which of the various man made gods you are referring.

Side: There is Ultimate Reality
TzarPepe(793) Disputed
3 points

I am personally not speaking of "god" or "gods", I am speaking about "God". There is only one "God". This topic isn't about the word "God", it is about the definition of the word "God" independent of the word "God" itself. I'm talking about the God that isn't man made. That should be obvious from everything I have written so far. In fact, this topic isn't really even about the definition of anything, it is about the existence of ultimate reality.

"God" with a capital "G" means something different than "god" with a little "g", and unlike many people, I am using language correctly.

I am talking about The Ultimate Reality. If I were to define this any further, I would likely only be cheapening the very essence of what this means.

This topic is for those who have a problem with the word "God". Now instead of getting hung up because of their superstitious aversions, those who adamantly deny "God" can debate the existence of "ultimate reality" instead. That is what this topic is about. This topic isn't about whether or not you feel comfortable with the word "God". We are talking about the spirit of the word "God".

The purpose of this is to actually get to the nitty gritty of what "God" means instead of being political about the use of words. I'm half heartedly trying to accommodate theophobics.. Or more accurately, half heartedly trying to get some of them to realize that their position is the one of a clown.

Of course, many devil worshipers know exactly what they are doing, so maybe the point of this topic is to edify those who may be watching and on the fence. Maybe someone who doesn't realize what their position means may change it.

Regardless of whether anyone admits it or not... If they believe in the existence of ultimate reality, they believe in the existence of God. It doesn't matter if they choose to call it "God" or not. I believe that is a fine place to start.

Side: There is Ultimate Reality
1 point

Hello T:

For you, maybe not. But, I'm happy with the one we have..

Look.. Here's a reality mind bender... I have a concrete counter top.. It FEELS hard. It FEELS impenetrable. I can push on it and it won't give.. I can hit hard with a hammer, and it won't give. My reality tells me it's HARD as a rock.

But, in FACT the atoms that make up my concrete counter top are spaced WAYYYY apart, and there's LOTS and LOTS of empty space between them. That's another reality altogether..


Side: There is Ultimate Reality
TzarPepe(793) Clarified
1 point

Such is reality, but it by definition cannot be the "ultimate" reality unless it is "arrived at as the last result" is "Basic, fundamental", or "incapable of further analysis, division, or separation"

That is what distinguishes reality from "ultimate" reality.

There are many realities, but there can only be, by definition, ONE supreme and/or ultimate reality.

That supreme and/or ultimate reality is God.

Side: There is Ultimate Reality
1 point

If this debate is truly a discussion independent of God and instead, simply of whether or not some sort of 'ultimate reality' exists or not, why include Merriam's definition of God or mention him at all in the debate description? Is this a 'God' debate or an 'ultimate reality' debate?

Side: There is Ultimate Reality
3 points

Incorrect you idiot , ultimate reality according to you is God so what you're saying is ' to say there is no god is to say there is no god ' which shows how totally confused you are

Side: There is no Ultimate Reality
Amarel(3619) Clarified
2 points

It's not that ultimate reality is God according to him, it's that God is "the supreme or ultimate reality" according to Websters Dictionary.

Side: There is Ultimate Reality
Dermot(5499) Clarified
0 points

Well ultimate reality is God according to him as he keeps banging on about it , and his dictionary definition is in some way in his confused mind meant to be the final say on it

Side: There is Ultimate Reality
TzarPepe(793) Disputed
1 point

To say there is no ultimate reality is to say that there is no God.

So do you say that there is no ultimate reality?

Side: There is Ultimate Reality
Dermot(5499) Disputed
1 point

For me there is no god or gods , you may define a god or gods any way you want when you have evidence pleases present it

Side: There is no Ultimate Reality
TzarPepe(793) Disputed
-1 points

No, I'm saying that if you deny God, it makes sense that everything you say can be discounted as a lie.

Also, it isn't according to me, it's according to the most well respected dictionary in American English. I happen to agree with the definition because I am theologically educated.

You don't know what you are talking about. Or maybe you do, and you are just a liar. Really, there are only two options here.

But hey, if you like the devil to ram you in the pooper, that's your business, fag.

Side: There is Ultimate Reality
Dermot(5499) Disputed
1 point

Theologically educated πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚ there's no end to your bullshit is there ?

Actually the liar is you as I proved earlier with your denial and then apology when caught in your lies , interesting that your true colours show at the end and it's rather amusing that you also believe in a devil and your obsession with gay sex and peadophilia was obvious from yesterday when you said you were a '" fisher of men and boys " ......

Side: There is no Ultimate Reality