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Debate Score:104
Arguments:106
Total Votes:109
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 Funny ways of atheists (96)

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Saintnow(3684) pic



Funny ways of atheists

Atheism says "God is imaginary, and therefore absurd.", but that is not God as God is Omnipresent and by definition cannot be limited to one's mind.  The "god" imagined by the atheist is an absurdity created in the atheist's mind, then the atheist  argues against it's  own created absurdities  which are not God and declares "I"m not stupid, the absurd thing I imagine is not God, therefore there is no God outside of my imagination".  So the atheist is not arguing against God who must be self existent before He gave the atheist the ability to imagine things but is arguing against his own absurdity and would do better to just stand there on  tiptoes and spin like a top and flubber the  lips going blblblbblbl.   That would be equally funny to the atheist's concepts, and equally silly.
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2 points

You have it backwards. Atheists say that your ideas about God are absurd, therefore He must just be imaginary.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Once again the atheist who can't concede 2 plus 2 equals 4 and proves truth is objective has denied his own beliefs.

pirateelfdog(2654) Disputed Banned
1 point

2 plus 2 equals 4

Depends on how big the 2's are.

Independent3(31) Disputed Banned
1 point

When you use the term 'therefore', the words are no longer commutative, as therefore means 'for that reason' or 'consequentially'.

Unless, of course, I was wrong, and therefore I should die.

Or should I say I should die, therefore I was wrong?

Doesn't work both ways, does it?

Bummer.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

An imaginary thing cannot be God because God is the creator of all things including your imagination. To say "God is imaginary" is not an argument against God who created individuals who can imagine things. It's an argument against an imaginary thing which is an absurdity and is not God. The person who makes such an argument is being absurd, like a dog chasing it's own tail, creating an absurdity and then saying the thing it created is absurd .....unable to make a real argument against God the same as the dog is unable to change it's tail into a rabbit while rabbits are near but the dog is too busy chasing it's tail.

Next.

Independent3(31) Disputed Banned
1 point

But that's only true if god is in fact real. And we don't know that, do we?

God might be imaginary. If God's real, the statement God is imaginary is absurd, but if God's real, that is a moot point anyway.

The point isn't that people say God is imaginary but God created inagination so it's absurd to think that, but whether or not God exists in the first place.

If he was imagined, all the person had to do was imagine someone who created imagination.

If this was supposed to be some mind-blowing statement that would make all atheist immediately pray to God, it failed.

Better luck next time.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

You cannot imagine me, I exist independently of your imagination. If you try to imagine me, the thing you are imagining is not me. To say I do not exist because you only imagined me is an absurdity, and to argue against my existence is to argue against the absurdity you created in your imagination and you would not be arguing against me as I exist and there is no argument against my existence.

2 points

You really need to lay off of the psychoactive drugs. Your every post is more and more absurd than the last.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Wow, thanks for your contribution to the discussion. How come Slap Shot can carry on a conversation with me and you can't? What is wrong with you?

pirateelfdog(2654) Disputed Banned
1 point

Literally, his post could be word for word something you wrote to one of the people you don't like on this site.

Atrag(5434) Banned
2 points

I have just concieved in my mind a slopalopadink. Amongst others he is omnipresent. So...this means he also exists outside my mind?

Why arent you burning in the slopalopadink's liar right now?

I think you need to study the ontological argument just a little bit more. You havent got it quite right.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

If you conceive a thing in your mind, then it is limited to the empty space between your ears, and that is not omnipresent. You do know the definition of omnipresent, right? The thing between your ears in that empty space is limited to your tiny cranium. It's not omnipresent. Now if you talk about God being omnipresent, He is there even when your little cranium rots in the grave.

FattyMoron(17) Disputed Banned
2 points

If you conceive a thing in your mind, then it is limited to the empty space between your ears, and that is not omnipresent. You do know the definition of omnipresent, right? The thing between your ears in that empty space is limited to your tiny cranium. It's not omnipresent. Now if you talk about God being omnipresent, He is there even when your little cranium rots in the grave.

So when a author writes an omnipresent character your head just explodes I guess? I can imagine an omnipresent whatever I want. It can be a flying elephant or God. Either way, he is a FICTIONAL character. He is omnipresent in my fictional world. Are you seriously suggesting that any omnipresent being I can imagine must exist on the real world? Right now I am imagining 100000000 different gods - all of which have the feature of being omnipresent. Again, this all comes down do you not getting the ontological argument for the existence of God. It is funny trying to defend it though even though you dont have the faintest idea.

pirateelfdog(2654) Disputed Banned
1 point

Just like whenever I think about the word 'infinity' I die.

KNHav(1957) Banned
2 points

My recommendation is to not to argue with them in their comfortable place. They want to argue on opinion, or on what little science they know, but facts drive them to hide their head in the sand, I think this should be telling to all!

Saintnow(3684) Clarified
1 point

That is why I'm using simple common sense logic, true philosophy and not vain philosophy spoken of in the Bible.....the Bible speaks of "vain philosophy" and "science so-called". The fallacies of atheism and of evolution and big bang belief are easily exposed by truth.

KNHav(1957) Disputed Banned
2 points

Don't you think they hide from God's Word, and are more than glad to bicker on nonsense?

Umm it's staring you right in the face.

Look how they hide from God's Word, but they will hiss at you about Hell day and night.

But bring a real argument that confronts them with truth, let then face real truth confronting them and where are they? ...

Light in darkness, they hide! So their deceptions are not exposed!

Aren't you tired of the same conversation, getting the same results?

Definition of insanity, I've watched this same conversation for months now. As soon as you take it to something they have to argue as factual, or real challenges of truth. Face to face with truth, the demons pull them down and away so they can't know the truth and be set free!

Bring truth and light to them, the arguments you give them are in their darkness, it's bitter hostility and argumentative. They bring you to their place! They love it there, and there is a reason they love it! Because it doesn't penetrate their door, and it's fun to make you a Christian wrestling in the dirt with them.

Pull them our of the dirt and confront them on God's level

.

Saintnow(3684) Clarified
1 point

Did I ask for your opinion on what I should talk about or how I should present my points? You're just a child to me.

1 point

Atheism says "God is imaginary, and therefore absurd.", but that is not God as God is Omnipresent and by definition cannot be limited to one's mind.

But your god you speak of here is Omnipresent only in the minds of those who believe in him. He is certainly not so in my mind, nor in the minds of other like-minded atheists. Or even agnostics.

So...going be THIS definition, he most certainly IS limited to your own mind.

I"m not stupid, the absurd thing I imagine is not God, therefore there is no God outside of my imagination".

No...I am not stupid, and in fact am reasonably intelligent. So I believe that no, there is no god outside of YOUR imagination. Again...he does not enter my mind as do other tangible and proven things. Rather, he enters it as would any other character of myth or fiction, i.e. in a whimsical and abstract sort of way. If at all.

So the atheist is not arguing against God who must be self existent before He gave the atheist the ability to imagine things but is arguing against his own absurdity and would do better to just stand there on tiptoes and spin like a top ...

Yes...I AM arguing against the existence of your god. And not....this does not mean he exists at all. But rather, just the opposite. And I certainly do not need your god to give me the ability to imagine anything. Or to think or reason. We humans do this on our own, by virtue of our own evolved brains. A god is not needed in this equation.

I am also not arguing against myself. As I find nothing absurd in my beliefs. Rather, what I DO find absurd is belief and worse, worship or fear of a god who has never shown himself to me or anybody I ever met in my life. Or in the world as we know it. He is unproven and has not even a hint of his existence showing in this world of ours. If you deny this, then please fell free to show me that hint of existence he shows us.

And...uh, as far as spinning like a top and blathering, I think you have the wrong religion here, Mr. Saint. Those guys would be the Whirling Dervishes of Sufiism. Who are the mystics of Islam.

SS

dadman(1471) Disputed
2 points

He is certainly not so in my mind ... lol ... 24/7/365

.

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1 point

hahahaha.........yep, over and over and over, round and round like a dog chasing it's tail. Then one day the dog falls asleep forever and it's tail doesn't run any more.

SlapShot(2607) Clarified Banned
1 point

I'm in a great mood! 24/7. Ask anybody who knows me. And why shouldn't I be? I am living the dream amigo...living the dream.

As far as your god, though. (uh...which one is yours again? I mean, fuck...there are so damn many that have been invented as emotional placebos thru the course of history its hard to keep track or 'em all!

Oh..that's right...you worship that murderous and petty sky god from the Torah. What was his name again? Yah yah something?

LOL

To be quite honest, the only time I ever even think about your gods is when I'm here on CD. Ya see...during the day I try to concentrate on REAL things. My work, my school, my wife, my recreation, the beautiful world of nature and science. Those sort of things.

And guess what? Your yah yah is nowhere to be found.

Not a hint.

Why?

Cuz he's in your head you freaking imbecile.

SS

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Well, sorry, Slappy, in order to be God he must be the One who gave you the power of imagination. If you argue against a thing which you or I can imagine, rather than arguing against God who created things like us which have powers of imagination, then you are arguing against your own imaginary thing and not arguing against God who created all things.

Yes sir, you are reasonably intelligent, in fact maybe more intelligent than me. I'm not a genius. Because you are intelligent, look at how your own words are self-contradictory in saying God who is omnipresent is only omnipresent in the minds of those who believe in Him. Well, Slappy, wouldn't that be something that is not omnipresent, if it can only be in your mind? unless of course your mind is omnipresent, and then you would be God wouldn't you?

Omnipresent is everywhere present......in your mind is in your mind and not omnipresent. You see, you are changing the meaning of "omnipresent" to "imaginary", which is an absurdity because omnipresent is not imaginary, it's omnipresent independent of your imagination. That is God. Arguing against an imagined thing which is not omnipresent because it only exists inside a cranium is not arguing against God. Saying omnipresent and imaginary are the same thing is an absurdity, and you are arguing against your own created absurdity and not arguing against God. When you imply you are arguing against God when you are arguing against an imagined thing, you might as well stand on tiptoe and spin and flubber your lips gong bbbnnrnrbrbrbrbrbrb

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

God gave you the ability to imagine things if you appreciate that fact or not, and you cannot hide your imaginations from Him, to Him they are real and He sees them as actions you are doing. If you imagine punching Ray Comfort in the head, God sees you as guilty of assault and battery, and he sees you as a murderer at heart. That's the God you don't want to acknowledge, He is the One you cannot argue against without arguing against your own life.

pirateelfdog(2654) Disputed Banned
1 point

So to clarify, you have never even imagined committing any act of violence to anything or anyone ever?

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

God does not enter your mind as do other tangible and proven things......you mean tangible and proven things like Snow White and the Seven Dwarves? And Thor never entered your mind? If evolution entered your mind, that means you have an orangutan inside you....along with all it's ancestors including Lucy and LUCA. They never entered your mind because they are not tangible and proven, or they are tangible and proven since they did enter your mind?

Don't imagine a yellow and green polka dot elephant, I don't want it to enter your mind or it might be tangible and proven.

And when God does enter your mind in an abstract and whimsical way, He is the One who is Omnipresent, knows your thoughts and sees your imaginations, and is Omnipotent, correct? When God does enter your mind, He's the One you think about when you say He is imaginary, right? And then you slam the door and say NO to God, right?

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

We went through this before. If you want evidence of God, go look in the mirror. You are you, you are not a hologram produced by chemical fizzes causing an apparition which makes you feel conscious. It's you in there, it's your face you are looking at, the face you see is not you, it's your face and you are in there. You are a real person and you don't get out of reality by saying there is no God. When you tell yourself that death gets you out of reality and there is no God to counter your assertion, all you are doing is killing yourself no matter how much time you spend making yourself handsome, educated, and rich....you're just building an elaborate coffin and it won't get you out of reality, you will meet your Maker on His terms.....and if you're fighting it, your losing it all....atheism is suicide and a complete failure because you won't get out of reality. God caused you to be you and you can't change that fact.

It's better to meet your Maker on His terms before your death sentence is finalized and you keep your death saying no thanks to the One who took your death to save you from Hell......and you know I'm talking about the One who conquered death offering you forgiveness of your sins if you will repent and believe on Him and receive Him as your Savior...but you're afraid of changing into a new person who will hate the sins of good old Slappy.

Independent3(31) Disputed Banned
1 point

That's actually not evidence Existence could be caused by a number of things, and we also could be robots programmed to think that and act exactly like humans. We also could all be something that some alien dreamt up and is still living that dream. We might all be figments of that alien's imagination. We don't know for sure. However, we have reason to believe that we are not, as no evidence we have tells us we are.

There's also no evidence that God is real, so in my mind, believing in God is just like thinking we are all robots or figments of alien imagination. I don't have any reason to believe it, so I'm not going to.

Ask yourself why you believe in God but not this alien dream. We have the same amount of evidence for both. Was it how you were raised, did you just pick something to believe in, or are you so caught up in this fantasy (it is a fantasy, as one of the definitions of the word fantasy is defined as an idea with no basis in reality, and the only basis God has is the bible, which could easily have been made up by anyone) that you actually believe it?

Apparently you don't know what proof is, as that did not prove to anyone beyond a reasonable doubt that God exists. Fact check every once and a while. It would help.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

You could look in the mirror and say "that's not me, I'm not really real, I'm just a hologram which feels conscious due to the evolutionary forces which try to survive, I see no evidence of God".....and then, since you are really not you and you really are just an unreal apparition of consciousness caused by chemical fizzes in your brain, you might as well move back from the mirror, stand on tippy toe and start spinning like a top while you flubber your lips and go bbrbrbrbrbrbrb

Independent3(31) Disputed Banned
1 point

You could do that. But that would be a waste of your fake chemical life. I don't want to waste my chemical life spinning or worshipping God. I like it under my chemical control and nobody else's.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

That's funny....thanks Slappy, I never heard of the Muslim Spinners before. I have seen a lot of bizarre things they do in their religion, but never would have guessed they are into one of my childhood pass times.

1 point

You never heard of the Dervishes?

Well, well.....allow me to enlighten you!

They're awesome. I would become a Sufi way before I'd think about being a Christian..............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_Cf-ZxDfZA

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

"....Or to think or reason. We humans do this on our own, by virtue of our own evolved brains. A god is not needed in this equation."

SS

So your equation goes like this....lifeless, non-intelligent matter +nothing---->billions of years = imaginative power?

Doesn't that take a lot of faith to believe? Isn't it easier to believe the following equation:

The Living and Intelligent Creator, God, + His will, plan, and design = whatever He pleases (matter, life, intelligence)

You see friend, your equation is out of balance and is not equal. Matter plus nothing cannot equal consciousness unless in reality you are nothing. Are you trying to tell me you are nothing? I don't believe that. Nothing is not capable of tossing me around the ice like a hockey puck.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

"I am also not arguing against myself. As I find nothing absurd in my beliefs. Rather, what I DO find absurd is belief and worse, worship or fear of a god who has never shown himself to me or anybody I ever met in my life."

SS

Friend, by denying God gives you life, you are indeed arguing against your own life in favor of not existing. It's a mistake, no matter how much you want to un-exist in death, you can't make it happen but you are trying to make it happen like a person who dreams they have something they really want, and they try to hold on to it as they are waking up but they are forced to admit it was only a dream and they can't really have the thing they were holding onto. You are acting like you are in a dream and as long as you cling to hope of getting out of reality in death, you think you won't wake up to find the dream is unreal and you are real without the dream......and then it's all over, you lost everything, after arguing against your own life you find you lost it.

Independent3(31) Disputed Banned
1 point

Nope. He/she/they/it (I'll use he from now on because it's shortest and easiest to type, except it but 'it' sounds kind of demeaning) would be arguing with God who created his life, but not his life. Nowhere was he saying he didn't want to live, just he didn't want to worship the God (if there is one) who created his life. Not saying he doesn't want to exist. Just saying he's not worshipping anything there's not proof for. It seems like a bigger waste to spend all of your life on something that's going to happen after you are dead.

KNHav(1957) Disputed Banned
1 point

My experience that is funny about atheist, is when they are confronted with facts, like Biblical Prophesy, and if it's not just a generalization, and when they have to face facts and answer how 3 separate prophesies had to be fulfilled for accuracy, AND they were all 3 fullfilled, along with about 2000 others!

All you hear is spitting, and stomping, nothing more than hissing and more and more generalizations.

And when you bring them back to the facts, all you hear are birds chirping, or chickens honking, like they have sooooo much evidence yet I still hear not even a peep regarding the facts of prophesy I posted.

Sorry for giving you atheists such hard questions to answer!

I'm sorry you want to argue on opinion of tyrant or not. But face facts, God has been proven! And you choose to ignore proof!

Amarel(3836) Banned
1 point

So Atheists imagine an absurd version of God and refuse to believe it's existence. You imagine an absurd version of God, believe in it, and act like a lousy person because of it.

I think they have the better end of this one even from your perspective of them.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Try to walk through this slowly, I understand simple logic is difficult for you so I'll try to go slow.

You cannot imagine me as I exist outside of your imagination. Your power of imagination cannot create me, nor can it confine me, nor can it make me non-existent. I'm here whether you like it or not.

You cannot imagine God. He is there when your cranium is rotting in the grave and you cannot imagine anything in this world ever again. If you say the omnipresent God is an imagined thing, you are not talking about God as He is self-existent without your imagination, and you are not talking about "omnipresent" as the thing you imagine is present in the limitations of the tiny amount of space between your ears.

You are saying you can imagine an absurdity and the absurdity you imagine is not God...well duhhhhhh. Of course that is not God. God exists independently of, your imagination, He was there before you were a gleam in your father's eye, He will be there when your imagination is pulled down in your rotting cranium to Hell if you don't get saved from it.

I hope that helps.

PattyPlatano(96) Disputed Banned
1 point

You cannot imagine God. He is there when your cranium is rotting in the grave and you cannot imagine anything in this world ever again. If you say the omnipresent God is an imagined thing, you are not talking about God as He is self-existent without your imagination, and you are not talking about "omnipresent" as the thing you imagine is present in the limitations of the tiny amount of space between your ears.

Then we imagine something else and call it God. We write a book about it and worship it every day. There is no logic problem in imagining something and naming it God even if you say it isnt the real God. Also.. it is not what ONE person images.. it is a social construct from the minds of millions of people over a substantial period of time.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

There are not versions of God. God is God, not a version of God. You are you, not a version of you. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

If you imagine an absurd thing, it cannot be God because it is limited by your imagination. If you imagine me, your imagination cannot be me as I exist outside of your imagination. You cannot imagine God to make Him exist, you cannot imagine me to make me exist. You are not the master of the universe so everything is a figment of your imagination, you are not God. Sorry. I'm sure you'll just spin your head and blubber your lips some more.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

God is not God except as the One who is independent of your imagination. Anything you call "God" which you say is imagined is not independent of yours or the imaginations of millions of people and is not God. It is absurd if you say your imagination of me is me as I exist outside of your imagination, and it is absurd to say God is an imagination as an imagined thing cannot be God. You are creating an absurdity and arguing against your own absurdity saying your absurdity is not God.......to which I say duhhhhhh, no kidding? Of course your absurdity is not God. You are like a dog chasing it's tail, and every time you think you caught your tail chop it out of your mouth and then you chase it some more. You are being absurd and not arguing against God but arguing against your own absurdity. Duhhhhh, your absurdity is not God. It's only your imagination. Now chase your tail some more while I laugh at you.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

I do not imagine God. God cannot be imagined. I do not imagine you. You exist independently of my imagination. Your existence is not dependent on me acknowledging you. If I never knew you, never had any idea you existed, you still were there. For me to say my imagination of you is you would be an absurdity, and for me to argue that you do not exist because you are only imagined by me would be to argue against my own absurdity, and not to argue against your existence.

There are billions of people in this world who I am completely unaware of, have never seen, and have no tangible proof of their existence. I can imagine all of them, and I can imagine each individual if given enough time, but my imagination of them would not be them. Your imagination of God is not God, my imagination of God is not God, the imaginations of millions of people imagining God is not God. God is independent of my imagination the same as five billion people on the planet are independent of my imagination. God cannot be defined as imaginary any more than I can define five billion people as imaginary. If you say God is imaginary, the thing you imply is imagined by definition cannot be God as He is independent of your imagination the same as I am independent of your imagination.

The only way you can be in agreement with atheists in this discussion is to be absurd.

1 point

You cannot imagine God, He exists independently of your imagination. If you try imagine God, the thing you are imagining is not God. To say God does not exist because God is imagined is an absurdity, and to argue against my existence by saying you imagined me is to argue against the absurdity which is not me but is what you created in your imagination and you would not be arguing against me as I exist and there is no argument against my existence.

Keep it up and God will say enough is enough and you will be executed and left to fry in Hell like an eternal sausage.

1 point

The reason you feel the compulsion to ban everyone - even because you just don't like their screen-name - is because you know how weak your argument really is.

1 point

Nearly everyone who posted to this debate has been banned:

Cartman - Banned

pirateelfdog - Banned

Independent3 - Banned

cownbueno - Banned

Atrag - Banned

KNHav - Banned

SlapShot - Banned

PattyPlatano - Banned

SaintRetard - Banned

SatintLater - Banned

FattyMoron - Banned

Grenache - Banned

Saintnow(3684) Clarified
1 point

JustIgnorant-Banned .

0 points

At least you think they're funny so you can have a good laugh, too. The atheists are still laughing about things like magic underwear (Mormons), 77 virgins for terrorists (Muslims), crackers transubstantiating into Christ's actual body (Catholics), and that you can act like an extreme @hole and still be saved regardless just because you accepted Christ (Evangelicals). As long as everyone keeps laughing we'll be just fine.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Fools laugh at pretty much anything. You're so busy being a fool you can't even focus on what I said in the OP and discuss it.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Oh, the punk pretends to be sophisticated by using %$$#& to cover his punky profane attitude and words. Yeah, really sounds like you are laughing there, punk. That kind of humor has cost a lot of jokers some teeth. Punk. If you haven't spit some out yet in a bar fight, I'm surprised. You might want to go have a glass of wine, punk, and call your brother and tell him I said hello.

KNHav(1957) Banned
0 points

My experience that is funny about atheist, is when they are confronted with facts, like Biblical Prophesy, and if it's not just a generalization, and when they have to face facts and answer how 3 separate prophesies had to be fulfilled for accuracy, AND they were all 3 fullfilled, along with about 2000 others!

All you hear is spitting, and stomping, nothing more than hissing and more and more generalizations.

And when you bring them back to the facts, all you hear are birds chirping, or chickens honking, like they have sooooo much evidence yet I still hear not even a peep regarding the facts of prophesy I posted.

Sorry for giving you atheists such hard questions to answer!

I'm sorry you want to argue on opinion of tyrant or not. But face facts, God has been proven! And you choose to ignore proof!

Saintnow(3684) Clarified
2 points

I suggested Patty Polluted come to your prophecy discussion and talk with you there about the prophecies you want to discuss. I looked at some of the stuff you posted there and it's really very good and I hope you can score some points and make people think with it. My experience has been that it's very hard to find people in this media brainwashed age in America who will be open minded to look at fulfilled Bible prophecies but I hope you can do well with it and I will watch.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

I have seen them many times argue against facts of prophecy by saying the original writings are lost and the dates of what we have is questionable, implying things which appear as fulfilled prophecies were added after the historical event. They do the same thing with all the prophecies, implying they were added along the way and all are fraudulent. They basically use the same argument as people who say we interpret the word of God as we go along and we never really have it unchangeable in writing. The atheists will say we have always changed scriptures throughout the centuries to make it sound prophetic and they will point at the hundreds of different versions of the Bible as evidence of how the Bible is unclear and can be changed according to the whim of whoever is making the copy.

PattyPlatano(96) Disputed Banned
1 point

Could we talk about specific prophesies? It seems to be that the 'proof' of the prophesies being fulfilled is often incorrect.

The main ones seem to be pretty easily debunked...

Jesus being born in Bethlehem being the major one. Why on Earth would a census demand that people go back to their birth place for the census? The point of a census is to take count of the land people own. There is no record of the Romans ever demanding censuses in this way. And in any case, of all his ancestors why did Joseph go to the birth place of his great great great great great times whatever Grandad David's birth place? Why was that so important? The other thing of course is... why would you choose to do it just when your wife is about to give birth to the Messiah? All very suspect dont you think?

Another troubling aspect for atheists is that we know the Bible has been heavily edited over the years (we have copies where this has occurred) and that whole books have been excluded. It is logical that the prophesies and / or the accounts of their fulfillment would be choosen to be included or, perhaps, outright invented.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Go talk to K in her prophecy discussion. That's what she made it for. Why do you come here and be a jerk? Go talk to K in her prophecy discussion. Please. Show some manners and take that conversation to her. I own this debate and it's not about prophecy.

KNHav(1957) Clarified Banned
1 point

It is historical that did occur.

It was record keeping, archaic yes. It actually began at the time of Jesus' birth. Which makes prophesy even crazier but more convincing as truth.

http://crossexamined.org/really-census-time-caesar-augustus/

..

Objection 1

In Luke’s account in Luke 2:2, he speaks of a census which “first” took place when Quirinius was governing Syria, so it is not out of the question that the census to which Josephus is referring was the second one, while Luke mentions the “first” one [i.e the earlier one].

Gleason Archer also notes that Luke, “was therefore well aware of the second census, taken by Quirinius in A.D. 7, which Josephus alludes to… We know this because Luke (who lived much closer to the time that Josephus did) also quotes Gamaliel as alluding to the insurrection of Judas of Galilee “in the days of census taking” (Acts 5:37).[6]

Additional evidence also seems to suggest that Quirinius served as governor twice which would then put him in an official position over Syria to enact the census of Luke 2:2. In 1784, a Latin inscription was discovered near Tivoli, located about twenty miles east of Rome. It is known as the Lapis Tiburtinus inscription, and according to Jack Finegan it, “…contains the statement of a high Roman official that when he became governor of Syria he entered the office for the second time (Latin, iterum). It has even been thought that this personage might have been Quirinius…”[7]

Whatever the identity is of the Roman official mentioned in the inscription, at minimum shows that it was not uncommon for Roman procurators to have served twice, and maximally it may eventually reveal that it was Quirinius himself, through further research.

Is it Plausible that Mary & Joseph Traveled to Bethlehem for the Census?

Luke 2:4-5 states: And Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the town of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David, to be registered with Mary, his betrothed, who was with child.

Mary & Joseph traveling to Bethlehem

Objection 2 listed above states, that in a Roman census Joseph would have not had to travel to Bethlehem, but would have registered in the principle town of his residence, and Mary would not have had to register at all.

It was generally understood that Roman law instructed property owners to register for taxation in the district where they owned land. However, “…a papyrus dated to A.D. 104, records an Egyptian prefect who ordered Egyptians to return to their ancestral homes so that a census could be taken. In first century Rome, since the Jews’ property was linked to their fathers (i.e. patriarchal), the Romans would certainly have allowed them the custom of laying claim to their family estate for taxation.”[8]

Since every person needed to appear in his ancestral homeland and since Mary was betrothed to Joseph, and pregnant with child, the two traveled to Bethlehem together. Surely Mary & Joseph would have understood the Scriptures, and the prophecies concerning Israel’s Messiah – that He must be born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2). It must have been truly amazing from their perspective, to see pieces of the Messianic puzzle fall in place – even if the pieces were official decrees from the Roman empire!

Once again, when Scripture is placed under the scrutiny of historical and archaeological research, it stands the test in amazing ways.

This is but one small example of where archaeology and history corroborate the Scripture to the finest detail. Luke’s gospel is just the first part of a two-volume set in which Acts is the second. Colin Hemer’s massive study, The Book of Acts in the Setting of Hellenistic History details at least 84 facts in the last 16 chapters of Acts that have been confirmed by either historical or archeological research.

KNHav(1957) Disputed Banned
1 point

Egypt also had a similar census at some point. So it was a way of keeping record, and the only explanation I actually have as to why, is because God also designed prophesy to show Himself and confirm His Word.

You have a few historical things going on that are both prophesy and pre-written history.

Bethlehem - showing Joseph to be in the line of David

The traveling kings worshipping

The murder of infant boys as in the days of Moses

And out of Egypt I will call My Son

Prophesy said Bethlehem, Star of David, line of David, the prophets declared the kings would come and bow to Him, King Herod murder of the babies - Rachael weeping for her sons were no more, and God told Joseph to hide Jesus in Egypt till Herod died.

KNHav(1957) Disputed Banned
1 point

What makes you think there was "heavy editing" of the Bible.

Can you show me this as a fact? Or is it an assumption?

1 point

And by the way, Patty Pollted, Atfag, Fatty Moron.......and I think there is one other ....all are the same person and I think it's a woman though I can't be sure.

SaintRetard(5) Disputed Banned
1 point

Does that make you hot? Youre such a horn dog arent you?

I respectfully disagree!

0 points

if you're going to represent a viewpoint make sure it is an accurate representation of the view you wish to dispute.

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as such they do not say that god is imaginary, they say "God does not exist" and with no evidence of an extant God, they say so with confidence. they hold the belief that god does not exist as a part of the physical world, and that there is nothing outside the physical world. as such your argument to say that they imagine a "God in their head" is certifiably false. the reality of the world they can see is what they believe to be true. it would require evidence to convince such a person that a God exists, and so, they stand opposed to the notion.there is often no malice in this. and arguing points to them using reasoning beyond "Because God" would allow them to see the world (Potentially) the way that a theist might.

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consider this viewpoint: asserting any Moral judgement based on these groundless rulings of a deity without evidence of that deity, could feasibly allow the rulings of an anti-God to slip in. unless you can reason out why it is that one thing is moral or not, so what is the measurement for morality if god cannot be convened with directly. why can you say what you do with such confidence? Because you pray? feasibly, is not the devil the master of false comforts? feasibly should not the most beneficial and holy action be the one you are not comfortable with?

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Amen I say to you, Christ came down from heaven to reach the unreachable. the people who felt alienated from God. you don't have to put up this stupid Ban armor. you're not reaching who you are supposed to. and I have my doubts about who it is that answers your prayers.

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Please understand that this is not to demean you. nor step on the toes of the Almighty. the bible calls us to believe like a child. and that means a lot of questions. why is the sky blue? Why is it that we have to die? so ask. think. doubt. because you're a fool to believe you have all the answers. surely you realize that's the prodigal son. it's better to leave and return, then to have never left at all.