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This is the first thing that you have provided that makes me feel sure of your sincerity towards this cause, I still disagree though.
From what I have gathered from only the first ten minutes, or rather 7 minutes since the first three was an odd movie, is that these people like myself don't believe animals to be second class. They don't consider animals to be lower, they consider them to be equal, and it is with that I agree. I wholeheartedly agree than you can love animals as you would a family member, and that maybe just maybe they can love you the same way.
I however do not believe that sex with an animal can or will ever be right or okay. As it has been established on many other debates (posted by you no less) is that animals do not have the mental capacity to understand that what they are doing is what it is they are actually doing. They do not have the mental capacity to knowingly agree to the acts that you may want to perform. Their is also no sure way to know that they are consenting out of their own will, or due to manipulation of their sense or instincts.
I am sure you know this, you can get a dog to put it's tongue just about anywhere with a spread of peanut butter. That does not mean that the dog wanted to perform cunnilingus or fellatio, on the person who had put the spread their, that means the dog was enjoying what it thought was a treat with no idea of the perverseness of the person responsible.
All this time I've been arguing from the idea that the sex would be done with dogs only, I had up until this point neglected other animals. A person can not have sex with a rabbit, no matter how much they believe their to be a connection, because that act would be dangerous to the rabbit, just to give an example. As a broader example, sex with any creature not close enough size would be dangerous for one creature (the animal) or another (the human).
I have to disagree. Animals know what going on around them. And some say they know even more about there surroundings. But I know for fact and this is just not my opinion. Animals do have the mental capacity to understand that what they are doing is what it is they are actually doing. Animals sense or instincts, Are not really to make a animal do what it does not want to do. And I don't think people that loves there animal would use food to get the animal to do something. I know I wouldn't. I just have to say I think that it will become legal. In more states after the move comes and they get more people like me to help. I would help, I know my friends would help. I hope at least if you don't help that you at least don't go against us.
Will if I do that I need to get another computer or something. Because it only lets me right so much. Give me some time to write all of it for you to believe me. But I can't get links. Because alot of what I say is from past experience. I think you should watch the hole video. I think it will touch your heart. And you need to do the same.
I've saved the link and intend to watch the rest of the video in my free time, as for your links and evidence filled argument, I patiently await your reply.
One is marriage, one is sex. As I said the two are not even of the same priority. Not to mention the flaws with your argument, than animals can consent to sex.
One is marriage, one is sex. As I said the two are not even of the same priority. Not to mention the flaws with your argument, than animals can consent to sex.
Homosexual acts should be banned as with all of the above
Then the debate should have been titles as such, or the question should have been more clear in comparing homosexual sex acts to bestiality's sex acts. However you are still wrong, until you can provide proof of animals giving informed consent to sex with humans.
Then the debate should have been titles as such, or the question should have been more clear in comparing homosexual sex acts to bestiality's sex acts. However you are still wrong, until you can provide proof of animals giving informed consent to sex with humans.
Informed consent, and simple allowance are too completely different things. A baby could allow an adult to sexually stimulate them, not knowing the implications of what is being done, that is in no way legal standing as consent nor informed consent.
Where is your proof of your claims, or what is the logic behind your 'reasoning'?
That's still not an issue. To compare the unsupported acts of a zoophilac to an unsuspecting animal, to the acts of two men or two women that have an understanding of what they are about to do, is just incorrect.
Why should he provide prove if you haven't. I may not have links online. But at least I know more about the subject. Please provide your prove before asking him.
This is where you are wrong. Where I cannot provide links or studies, I provide simple logic that one can easily follow using comparisons and things of the sort. Neither he nor you have managed to do that.
I would say something good about gays. But they did not help us. I can't blame them they wanted to help us. But they had there own stuff that they had to deal with. I say informed consent is a hard argument. But informed consent either way does not really matter.
Yes! Informed consent matters. Without it, it could be manipulation. As we started long ago, sex with a drunken person is illegal, because the person even if they can talk and say yes, are not able to understand what they are saying yes to. It is the same way with an animal, an animal might not run from you, but in staying and waiting it is not informed of what is about to be done to it.
If you truly believe animals are on a similar level with humans, then it is foolish to believe that sex with one, when it is not entirely sure of what is happening, will leave mental scars.
I am not sure if your reasoning with me. But animals have the ability to know informed consent. But your right about your statement. But that the reason we don't have sex with them just because there standing there. That why we show body movements or at least give them a big sign of what we want to do. Before doing the act. And they are smart to understand. Are body movements or are signs that we give them. And then after we do are part they will there's. By walking away or they can give good tale signs or they would grill. And there are many ways for them to show there not ok with it.
Now we are speaking rationally except one little tidbit. I know from simply being a person who has interacted with animals (this is my logic) that it's not that simple. I know (from my logic) that you can not always just walk up to an animal, and that sometimes you can. I am asking you, how you know that you can?
You say
"But animals have the ability to know informed consent"
All I can say is they don't. I don't think they do, because they show no signs of knowing that they are performing sexual acts when the act is concealed. I don't think they do because they show no signs of stopping when faced with an unwilling person, unless their is a threat to their sense of instinct (that was logic, and proof).
Where is your logic and proof that animals can give informed consent to sex?
How do I know I can. Will it sample, I am with a male. So I just get on my hand,lags and if he comes then he comes. I show him body movement then it all up to him. For females I would have to say. That you would have to let her get to know your body. Let her come to you, Then start touching her at her face then slowly move your way to the back. Then if she pulls away or grills then stop. If she does not move your hands on the side of her back but don't get to close. If she still has not pulled away or grills. The slowly move up on her. Push you penis on her butt or vagina, But not in. If she has not pulled away or show some sign she was not ok with it. Then she is know letting you and wanting you to breed her. Will that what she wants anyway, But you don't have the gen to do so.
So I just get on my hand,lags and if he comes then he comes. I show him body movement then it all up to him.
Now I must say, that being on your hands and knees is not always an indicator that you are open to sex. Evidenced by this video. Which gives more proof to my point that animals can not give informed consent.
Also that this is proof that a dog will usually mount anything in this position. Evidenced by this link.
What this is all proof of, is that dogs have a natural inclination to mount and that they can also be trained to mount people, evidenced by your break down of how you let your dog know you are ready for sex.
After that point, if the dog isn't fleeing, it's only staying out of a desire to make it's master happy, not out of any informed consent to desire to have sex with that human.
Like I said before dogs will rape anything. But that is mostly because they need to let sexual needs out. But alot of dogs will ask frist. example, Wolves lower there head to there mate to ask for sex). And dogs do not just do whatever to make there master happy. Dogs come to there master. Because they want to. example, Dogs don't always come when you want them to. Also this even goes to traned dogs. They don't always come to you when you want them to. So that means dogs don't do things to make there master happy. My dogs know how to ask he bring socks to me.
Wolves lower their head to their mate, but how would they let a human know?
As for your personal method with the sock, that is training. Training is defined as teaching to get get a a desired skill. In this case the desired skill was sex.
They can let a human know in many different ways. He may start protecting you. Or start sniffing you in a odd way. Mayby even start following you around. Dogs don't not know how to ask a human. They will try many different ways. But the human will never realize it. Sometimes they do lower there head in a way there trying to ask for it. But normal people don't realize it. I never trained my dog. He learned that on his own socks = sex. And it not even wrong to train your dog something like that. It still is the dogs choice to go get that thing. Has long as you only use sex has his reward.
informed consent is not necessary. If your partner does not ask for it. Then it not a requirement . Or if your partner knows that there are risk/rewards but he or she still does the act anyway. Then it not a requirement . But if you do have some kind of disease but your partner doesn't know that. Then it up to you to inform or don't consent to the act in the first place.
What exactly do you mean by gay acts? Sex? Kissing? Flirting? At any rate, there is in no way it is the same as "beastality", for one its in the same species, for two both people are fully giving informed consent measurable by what they convey in words or acts, you cant ask a animal if they are giving informed consent as they probably don't even know what that is. To any one who agrees with the above "question" id much rather like if you could give me a logical argument to why exactly homosexuality is like "beastality" because being gay myself i do not find it the same at all in the slightest.
Can you show some prove. I mean I worked with animals all my life and I know for sure they can consent. Can I prove it. yes I can if I take my time to look up links. Please watch this film.
Are you stating, Zoophilia is a animal sex abuse. If you are I think I should give you the definition of zoophilia. zoophilia is a person that loves, respects and cares for animals but also has sex with them But only if the animal consents to it. If it is sexual abuse than it would not fall under zoophilia.
There is a difference here as you see if you see give the gun to a kid .he fires it and some dies did he do it with his own free will YES. did he hurt some one yes .But the ability to consent comes when you are truly capable of making your own decisions. we must consider the ability to know what they are doing dogs don't know whats best for them otherwise they would have chose to live freely in the wild .Kids don't know half the things they do . in my opinion pedophilia behavior consent or not is wrong .And bestiality is wrong too. if you take up incest .watch old boy movie.Its OK if both are of sound mind and consent to it. its just a taboo.
