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Debate Score:34
Arguments:24
Total Votes:39
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Debate Creator

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Genesis 1 .. The Eyewitness Account of Creation

Genesis 1 ......... The Eyewitness Account of Creation

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

................... continue .. http://dadmansabode.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2730#p2730
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"In the beginning of time, there was nothing: neither sand, nor sea, nor cool waves. Neither the heaven nor earth existed. Instead, long before the earth was made, Niflheim was made, and in it a spring gave rise to twelve rivers. To the south was Muspell, a region of heat and brightness guarded by Surt, a giant who carried a flaming sword. To the north was frigid Ginnungagap, where the rivers froze and all was ice. Where the sparks and warm winds of Muspell reached the south side of frigid Ginnungagap, the ice thawed and dripped, and from the drips thickened and formed the shape of a man. His name was Ymir, the first of and ancestor of the frost-giants.

As the ice dripped more, it formed a cow, and from her teats flowed four rivers of milk that fed Ymir. The cow fed on the salt of the rime ice, and as she licked a man's head began to emerge. By the end of the third day of her licking, the whole man had emerged, and his name was Buri. He had a son named Bor, who married Bestla, a daughter of one of the giants. Bor and Bestla had three sons, one of whom was Odin, the most powerful of the gods.

Ymir was a frost-giant, but not a god, and eventually he turned to evil. After a struggle between the giant and the young gods, Bor's three sons killed Ymir. So much blood flowed from his wounds that all the frost-giants were drowned but one, who survived only by builiding an ark for himself and his familly. Bor's sons dragged Ymir's immense body to the center of Ginnungagap, and from him they made the earth. Ymir's blood became the sea, his bones became the rocks and crags, and his hair became the trees. Bor's sons took Ymir's skull and with it made the sky. In it they fixed sparks and molten slag from Muspell to make the stars, and other sparks they set to move in paths just below the sky. They threw Ymir's brains into the sky and made the clouds. The earth is a disk, and they set up Ymir's eyelashes to keep the giants at the edges of that disk.

On the sea shore, Bor's sons found two logs and made people out of them. One son gave them breath and life, the second son gave them consciousness and movement, and the third gave them faces, speech, hearing, and sight. From this man and woman came all humans thereafter, just as all the gods were descended from the sons of Bor.

Odin and his brothers had set up the sky and stars, but otherwise they left the heavens unlit. Long afterwards, one of the descendants of those first two people that the brothers created had two children. Those two children were so beautiful that their father named the son Moon and the daughter Sol. The gods were jealous already and, when they heard of the father's arrogance, they pulled the brother and sister up to the sky and set them to work. Sol drives the chariot that carries the sun across the skies, and she drives so fast across the skies of the northland because she is chased by a giant wolf each day. Moon likewise takes a course across the sky each night, but not so swiftly because he is not so harried.

The gods did leave one pathway from earth to heaven. That is the bridge that appears in the sky as a rainbow, and its perfect arc and brilliant colors are a sign of its origin with the gods. It nonetheless will not last for ever, because it will break when the men of Muspell try to cross it into heaven."

Atrag(5666) Banned
4 points

Been drinking again I see. Maybe choose a part of the Bible to showcase that isnt so obviously bullshit.

dadman(1703) Disputed
1 point

add argument .... not BS ..................................................................... :)

KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

Id love to here your explanations for the questions I asked, also.

I reposted it in dispute to slapshot

The text sounds scientific to me

2 points

Eyewitnessed by who exactly? Genesis doesnt say anything about whos actually writing it down. And whoever wrote it down literally could not have been there to see all of it happen because until adam and even came along toward the very end of this list there were no humans to witness it. The term "eyewitness" has a definition that you completely and utterly ignored.

1 point

Pretty much exactly what I would have said. ............................

KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

Id love to here your explanations for the questions I asked, also.

I reposted it in dispute to slapshot

The above text sounds scientific to me.

One thing to think about, is the Bible says "to God 1 day is as 1000 years and 1000 years is as 1 day"

God doesnt measure time. We measure time.

So Creation could have been over a million years, or 7000 years, or 7 literal days - but 7 days thats not likely .

Also another thought, GOD SAID " LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE" Who was He talking to??

And why would someone who believed in Monotheology, make this plural?

Possibly as led by the God who was there?

Unless the person somehow understood the Trinity, or at least the Father and Son as 1 God.

The Hebrew religion, which is the origination of this text, believed in 1 God, and did not believe in the Trinity. And did not believe in other gods.

John 1:1 says:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 He was in the beginning with God.

3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.

5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

So when God introduced life and light it was through the Son, funny we call it the Sun.

J-Roc77(70) Clarified
1 point

The above text sounds scientific to me.

To clarify, are you are saying the Book of Genesis 'sounds scientific' to you?

1 point

20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Genesis 2

1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

1 point

MacArthur is probably ok on Creation, but I won't be watching him because of one of many problems in his doctrines, some of which is posted here:

There are many much better sources to use than MacArthur

From JesusisSavior.com......

MacArthur need look no further than his own mirror to find major contradictions in his teachings. In Faith Works, he states:

Any doctrine of eternal security that leaves out perseverance distorts the doctrine of salvation itself. Heaven without holiness ignores the whole purpose for which God chose and redeemed us. (pg. 182)

Peter is saying categorically that the essence of what it means to be a Christian is to love Jesus Christ. In fact, there may be no better way to describe the essential expression of the new nature than to say it is continual love for Christ. (pg. 185)

See also pp. 109-121, 123-38, 139-55, 157-73, 175-92.

John MacArthur clearly teaches that every believer is NOT assured a home in Heaven. According to MacArthur, one's salvation is DEPENDENT upon the life he or she lives. This is the damnable heresy of Lordship Salvation! Mr. MacArthur is of the Devil. From examining the two preceding statements made by John MacArthur, it can only be concluded that although MacArthur obviously doesn't think a believer can live a sinless life; a believer must nevertheless persevere in faith 'til the end of life to be saved. The big question, then is, how much does a believer have to "persevere" to make it to Heaven? Is this not the same heresy which Islam teaches? Yes, it most certainly is! Muslims believe that Allah is capricious, i.e., he is unpredictable. In Islam, a Muslim's salvation is dependent upon the life he lives—you basically do your best and hope you make it.

In Christianity, a believer's salvation is rooted in the love and mercy of an awesome God, who offers salvation as a free gift paid for by Jesus' precious blood (1st Peter 1:18,19); BUT in Islam, a Muslim's salvation is rooted in self-righteousness to appease Allah's wrath. John MacArthur has perverted the simplicity of the Gospel, by requiring a holy life as a final step to complete salvation. MacArthur has effectively turned salvation into a lifelong process. How is this not works salvation? There is no simpler picture of salvation than a gift. Romans 5:15 even calls salvation a "free gift." If I offered you a gift; but then required you to do something for years to come to obtain it, would that truly be a gift? No way! As simple as this truth is, tens-of-millions of people all across the world have been deceived by Satan into thinking that one's eternal salvation is CONDITIONED upon the life that they live. Shame on you Mr. MacArthur! And shame on you foolish preachers who unquestioningly support him. I realize that John MacArthur has produced some excellent study materials on various issues, such as the evils of alcohol, et cetera; however, the Jehovah's Witness cult also produces some of the best literature exposing the sinful world that I've ever read. This does not justify their hellish religion! And neither does John MacArthur's good teachings qualify his damnable heresies. There is no matter any more critical than the issue of salvation.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Doctrines/Lordship%20Salvation/macarthur-confusing.htm

dadman(1703) Disputed
0 points

MacArthur is probably ok on Creation ... well then there you go ...

1 point

Are you familiar with Jewish Cosmology? I find that people tend to impose post-Galilean concepts upon Jewish Cosmology.

1 point

I hope you don't teach your kids such preposterous, absurd, and intellectually stunting crapola as this shit.

I mean, really?

I consider that to be emotional child abuse.

Listen..........

Here's the thing that makes you biblical literalists so lame.

The thing that shows the Joke Is On You!

The Book of Genesis was actually one of the last written in the Hebrew Torah.

It was written.....oh only a mere 4.53 BILLION YEARS AFTER THE EARTH WAS REALLY CREATED.

But yeah, one of the last Torah books.

The Jews wrote it when they were in Babylonian captivity.

See? They were afraid that all their culture and customs were being eroded. One of these cultural practices was the holiness of the Sabbath. And how you should rest and do no work.

So........VIOLA!! The Six Day Creation woo with god resting on the 7th Day.

Never. Meant. To. Be. Taken. Literally.

Its called metaphor.

Allegory.

Fables.

Hundreds of different forms or radiometric dating over the decades has continually and always and accurately shown the Earth to be about 4.53 Billion years old.

Or are you gonna say all of those thousands of professional geologists and Biologists and Anthropologists who did all that dating are wrong?

And your Bronze Age Holy Book (really?) is correct?

Wow.

Listen.

I would vote for a law that said all potential parents have to pass a test before having kids.

Print this out and read it to your kids.............

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegorical interpretationsof_Genesis

dadman(1703) Disputed
1 point

and you have no explanations of how things came to be ie: the dawn of intelligence ....

you got one big gap to fill there buddy ...

I suggest you get started

btw Slot ....... how long does it take to ferment grapes into wine ... the really good stuff .. at least 2 yrs. ??

Bohemian(3860) Disputed
2 points

I think Slapshot has this covered, however even if we didn't have an explanation, it wouldn't by virtue of absence make every bronze age creation myth true by default, let alone the one specific one you happen to believe. This is argumentum ad ignorantiam.

SlapShot(2608) Disputed
1 point

How we came to be....the Dawn of Intelligence...the Acent of Man?

Of course I have an idea.

It's only my freaking FIELD numbnuts!

All of us do. You can find thousands of books explaining a step by step process of Evolution.

All of the 27 subspecies of the genus homo, included. Of which we are the pinnacle.

What do you want?

Transitional fossils?

We got em. Museums filled.

DNA evidence?

Check.

Not that you'll bother reading.

You are the type who doesn't want the facts to get in the way of his opinion.

I sometimes have trouble believing you are really this obtuse, and not just a troll.

To say we cannot explain evolution......

Wow.

Just.....

Wow.

Are you a drunk, as they say?

This would explain a lot.

Oh...speaking of wine...never let it be said I failed to address a Biology question.

Average time for mature grapes with adequate amounts of air and yeast to ferment into potable vino is approx. 4-8 days.

The longer you allow fermentation, the higher the alcohol content of the final product. Assuming again that there's enough yeast, which converts the sugar into ethyl alcohol. ETOH.

Higher proof does not necessarily equate to the good struff, however.

1 point

One thing to think about, is the Bible says to God 1 day is as 1000 years and 1000 years is as 1 day

God doesnt measure time. We measure time.

So Creation could have been over a million years, or 7000 years, or 7 literal days - but 7 days thats not likely .

Also another thought, GOD SAID " LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE"

Who was He talking to?

John 1:1 says:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 He was in the beginning with God.

3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.

5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

So when God introduced life and light it was through the Son, funny we call it the Sun.

1 God created heaven and the earth.

- Space, planets, and earth.

So a big bang theory? He spoke it, and then it was.

Could God yelling across the void create a booming sound?

Could rock against rock while being fused together in creating planets and earth be loud?

We dont know how, but as the belief in God goes, "no one created God. And through Him all things were created."

So even if just a particle, where did it originate?

Even if the particle originated from Saturn, where then did Saturn originate?

2 Earth was without form, and void; and darkness And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

It was dark, unformed, sounds like it was all water without "formed" land, vegitation, animals.

3 And God said, Let there be light:

It was already dark, God may not have had to create darkness. Idk? God introduced Suns, Stars, and Moons or he lit planets.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. He made night and day.

He divided it maybe he moved the Sun and Moon. He made contrast, and distinction. And called "light good."

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Tiring! Day 1

On Day 2 He made the Sky

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

Am I reading correctly? He put the sky "in the middle of the water? That concept wouldn't make sense to people back then, would it?

This world was all water, then God divided water from water by sky?

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

Then God created gravity and atmosphere, another concept I don't think they would have had when the text was written.

So then water was "under sky," that makes sense for them to understand. BUT then it says He divided water "under the sky," from the water that was "above the sky!"

Could this be the concept suggesting the world is round?

I'm not very scientific, but it sounds like the writer understood science well before his time!

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

It says He gathered the water, specifically the water "under the sky," and made earth. I think its odd how detailed the acct is

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good

And Seas are plural. Did the writer understand there were more than 1 Sea and more than 1 Continent?

Back in the day this was written, didnt they think there was just 1 land surrounded by 1 sea?

-1 points

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day ....... continue

SlapShot(2608) Disputed
0 points

That's it.......run!

Like all good little Christians.

When all else fails and you cannot refute any longer the atheist logic and mountain of scientific facts, Run back to your Bible!

Again and again and again and...........

Ad nauseum.

KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

Maybe you can help me read this text, I added questions and thoughts, if you can explain, Id appreciate it.

Because it sounds like you are scientific, I know I am not.

On Day 2 He made the Sky

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

Am I reading correctly? He put the sky "in the middle of the water? That concept wouldn't make sense to people back then, would it?

This world was all water, then God divided water from water by sky?

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

So then God created gravity and atmosphere, a concept I don't think they would have had when the text was written.

So then water was "under sky," that makes sense for them to understand.

BUT, this is perplexing, it then says He divided water "under the sky," from the water that was "above the sky!"

Could this be the concept suggesting the world is round?

I'm not very scientific, but it sounds like the writer understood science well before his time!

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

It says He gathered the water, and specifically the water "under the sky," and made earth!

I think its odd how detailed the acct is!

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good

And Seas are plural! Did the writer understand there were more than 1 Sea, and more than 1 Continent?

Back in the day this was written, didnt they think that there was just 1 land surrounded by 1 sea?

One thing to think about, is the Bible says to God 1 day is as 1000 years and 1000 years is as 1 day

God doesnt measure time. We measure time.

So Creation could have been over a million years, or 7000 years, or 7 literal days - but 7 days was probably not likely .