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God created us or evolution
It's all about an imperative question that most of us never try to come across.............It is only put up in front so that we can create interest on this topic to explore its theory .
I was created by the union of man and woman. I just didn't evolve as Leftist might like to think. But the question would be is how did America get those LWNJ just by them evolving from an ape ?
The idea that humans once started out as a little piece of dust is idiotic. For every creation there must be a creator... For a house you have carpenters. For a car you have mechanics. So how is it that humans evolved from some animal if before that, the animal hadn't existed if however the animal did exist... How? It was created . It is impossible for something to just come from absolutely nothing.
The idea that humans once started out as a little piece of dust is idiotic.
Starting off by saying "Ideas that I don't believe in are stupid" is a great way to keep people from taking you seriously. Be respectful, or people will be just as disrespectful to you.
For every creation there must be a creator..
That is begging the question. If the Universe is not a creation, then it doesn't require a creator.
For a house you have carpenters.
So within this metaphor, who or what created the carpenter? If your answer is the carpenter was always there, then why couldn't the house have always been there?
So how is it that humans evolved from some animal if before that, the animal hadn't existed if however the animal did exist...
Can you clarify what you mean?
It is impossible for something to just come from absolutely nothing.
Nobody believes otherwise. Mischaracterizing views while attempting to dispute them does you and your arguments a disservice.
If you have the right to exist outside of Hell, why are you dying and where are you going? How do you know? What makes you think you have the right to exist outside of Hell?
In your religion, animals don't go to heaven. Think of it this way, us atheists picture that everyone is like an animal.
1. Because things naturally die, just like animals. Asking that question would mean you think animals are immortal.
2. Well, nowhere. If the paranormal is true then I assume I'd be a ghost. But being a unbeliever of the paranormal I believe that I'd have no consciousness. A hard subject to describe really.
3. Radiation in space, proof of previous evolved creatures (skeletal remains), etc.
Ok, Kiddo, your wording is a bit incoherent here, but I'll try to put things together. To start with, I live in reality, I do not practice a religion. Objective truth is unchangeable. Every word, thought, imagination, and action in every moment of your time is a historical fact. You were there, you were the cause of everything you did, thought, imagined, or said. Believing you will have no consciousness in death is only hoping to escape from your own past.
Now please tell me, why do you think people want you to believe that you are an animal and not made in God's image with powers of imagination, communication, manipulations of nature, and even the power to reproduce and bring more people in your image into existence? Why do you want to believe you are only an animal? Why do you want me to believe I am only an animal? Why do you want others to believe that they are only animals?
You are an "unbeliever" in the paranormal, but the entire idea of evolution is paranormal, believing non-living things came to life as single celled organisms and then progressed into people. That is paranormal all the way...why do you accept that belief, but not believe God made you in His image and you are only an animal? Do you really believe you get out of your past by dying?
Skeletal remains do not prove evolution. If they did, there would be no need to dig up more and more of them.
Again, I live in reality and do not practice religion. I see no reason why animals should be excluded from heaven, and good reason to believe that every animal, single celled or multi-celled, which ever lived will remain forever in God's kingdom immortal. Mortality is temporary in this world. Skeletons are evidence of mortality.
Animals never had the choice of being like God or being like devils. We had that choice in our father, Adam. He made that choice for us, choosing to go against God's law and corrupting himself. In his corruption, he became mortal and passed mortality on to all of us. The disharmony if his corruption polluted all of nature, and the animals were poisoned by it. They were innocent. they were only there, they did not make the choice. They do not have the powers of reason to understand the consequences of that choice. We do. We are not innocent.
As far as becoming a ghost, that is the best you can hope for I guess........but then again, to have no consciousness, to un-exist as a person, I suppose would be better when you have no hope of eternal life.
Let me remind you son, I'm old enough to be your grandfather. There is nothing new in the way atheists picture things. I've seen it all and heard it all over and over and over again. Somehow, people have got you pumped up to think you have wisdom of all ages as a child. You have to think for yourself, seek to know what is really right and really wrong and don't let people trick you into thinking you know more than you can really know.
Very good. The basic point of evolution is believing that life emerged from non-life. They believe it just happened, so it's really meaningless. You have to be a fool to believe that kind of stuff.
That's a stupid question. The Creator was not created. You know that. You simply hate God and are trying to make Him go away so He can't rule against you. God loves you and you hate Him because you are a hater. Stop being a hater, fool. Believe God loves you so much that He gave His Son to pay for your sins, and offers you forgiveness in His resurrection. Receive the Creator, God, as your Savior, Jesus Christ, and live with Him forever. Reject your Creator and die without Him forever. You are being a fool. I think you always will be a fool. I hope you prove me wrong and get saved before it's too late, but I'm fairly confident that you will keep on being stubborn right into Hell.....a proud, brave fool with a big foul mouth like dipstick.
Thanks for sticking up for me there, girl. It's sad today how our schools and too many single parent homes are pumping out kids who can't speak civilly and use language slightly better than the vocalizations or rabid animals. I think you know that for good reason I find evolution is just a big joke. It is not science, it's conjecture and it is incongruent with the character of God and to believe it you would have to believe He is a liar.
People who believe in evolution are insane. It's an insane belief system, and uses all kinds of mental gymnastics trying to avoid the fact that is nothing but a philosophical error believed so strongly that logic can be suspended.
You don't believe the Bible anyways, I don't know why you are quoting it. In Psalms 14:1, God says "the fool hath said in his heart, there is no God"....so does that mean God is going to burn in Hell?" Your points are the points a fool tries to make. The Bible says you are a fool, and I agree with the Bible that you are a fool.
In the passage you are quoting, Jesus was referring to brother VS. brother relationships. The entire passage is in the context of speaking to your brother. You are not my brother. You are a fool. God is my Father, you are of your father the devil. He is a liar, and you are a liar like him.
Not only are you using a fake Bible which changes the words, you are also taking a phrase and lifting it out of the context to give it meaning which is not there. That is typical of the devil, trying to twist the truth in order to prove that you have the right to exist outside of Hell.
Yep. Keep saying that. At least Bill Nye didn't commit mass genocide which IS CLEARLY EVIDENT in the Old Testament. Also, There is no such thing as a stupid question. I'm not a hater, nor am I a jester. You can't force me to believe a fucking genocidal fuckface loves me, when god CLEARLY is evil IF HE EVEN EXISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What do I keep saying? Do I keep saying that you cannot justify your living, only your dying is justified and it is eternal in Hell if you don't get saved from it? There's really not much else to say to people who think they are going to show God who is their boss.
When you think it is a good idea to be sure of where you are going when your time in this world is finalized, let me know and I'll be happy to tell you how you can be saved from Hell and be sure of eternal life in Heaven.
No. I don't care anymore. Even if God exists, I'll still believe in Evolution. Because I will defend my beliefs until death. I don't care about hell, because it doesn't exist, and even if it did, I don't give a fuck. You are just a major troll. Kingly---out.
You are the person who does not have an answer. The only answer you have is your own death. The Creator was not created. He is God, He always is, always was, and always will be God. That is the answer. The fact that you will not accept the answer only means that YOU don't have an answer.
Sorry, your comments are always so stupid that I could only read the first line of your post. I have a limit on how much stupidity I can watch, and you are full of it.
I think you are on drugs. God created all things. Before He created anything, He was God, the same before any thing was created, the same now, and the same forever....no beginning, and no end. Nothing exists without God. God was God before anything existed. Only God is not a thing. Things are created. We are created. The Creator created all things.
You have to be pretty stupid if you think I am in any way implying that anything exists without the Creator.....but then again, I guess that kind of stuff is normal for you....I really think you are on drugs.
You aren't implying anything, you are telling us directly that you believe in something existing without a creator. You have to be pretty stupid to say something then call me stupid for saying you said that very thing.
I believe what I know, I know what I believe. You believe God is not there, and Hell is not real, and you are nothing but dying. There's no reasoning with a fool.
I agree with you. When you try to reason with a fool he will tell you he believes what he knows and knows what he believes instead of discussing what you showed him.
If you don't know what you believe, and you don't believe what you know, I'd have to say you are pretty stupid or insane or both...and once again, your childish responses show you must be both stupid and insane.
If you don't know what you believe, and you don't believe what you know
I never made any mention of my position on the subject that has nothing to do with the topic, so you drawing any conclusion is incredibly foolish.
I'd have to say you are pretty stupid or insane or both
Fortunately you have shown poor judgement, so we can assume the opposite is true.
and once again, your childish responses show you must be both stupid and insane.
Pointing out that you evaded the subject is not childish. When told that you have a flaw in your thinking responding with "I know what I believe and I believe what I know" is incredibly childish. I seriously imagine a child saying that.
People who believe in evolution stopped thinking. They decided to believe a lie, and all they do is strengthen that belief to reinforce their short circuited thinking which they enjoy because they feel like their lives are justified by their own existence so as long as they forgive themselves, they think...hope...everything is ok. It's a religious belief system which is very much akin to Hinduism........evolution, atheism, Hinduism, all are existential religious belief systems and practices.
short circuited thinking which they enjoy because they feel like their lives are justified by their own existence so as long as they forgive themselves
People who believe in evolution stopped thinking. They decided to believe a lie, and all they do is strengthen that belief to reinforce their short circuited thinking which they enjoy because they feel like their lives are justified by their own existence so as long as they forgive themselves, they think...hope...everything is ok. It's a religious belief system which is very much akin to Hinduism........evolution, atheism, Hinduism, all are existential religious belief systems and practices.
I know that this account hasn't been used for 41 days, and that this is an older post but this is a message to the people who upvoted it.
The idea that humans once started out as a little piece of dust is idiotic.
Two issues with this.
1. In your bible, man was made from the dust of the earth. What verse it was in I forget. But I know it was in Genesis 1-3. Which is a rather short read.
2. In the theory of evolution, humans further root was not dust, it was an organism. An organism that began all life.
For every creation there must be a creator...
Then what created God?
For a house you have carpenters. For a car you have mechanics.
For a house you have builders, carpenters only cut the wood that is made for the house.
For a car you have engineers, mechanics (which isn't what we call them anymore due to us using more computers in cars, we now call them Technicians.) are the people who fix certain parts of cars.
So how is it that humans evolved from some animal if before that, the animal hadn't existed if however the animal did exist...
The animal evolved aswell, from the organism as previously discussed.
How? It was created . It is impossible for something to just come from absolutely nothing.
Same would go for your God. But if you say that God is an infinite being that knows no time. Then why can't the universe be that way?
I believe that the universe goes infinitely into the past and into the future. Here is how it works.
~Big Bang
~Rapid Expansion Of Our Universe For The Next Couple Billion Years
~Universe Begins To Do 1 Of A Few Things
1. Dissolve due to the Rapid Expansion (I personally do not believe that this will happen. I believe that something else will occur to end the universe.).
2. The universe will begin to shrink back and destroy the universe in that way (This is what I believe will happen. Because the energy created from that will create another Big Bang.).
3. There are many other theories of how the world will end. But I don't know them well enough to explain them.
why do u all believe in evolution just because everyone do or just because they don't believe in god .....have any one of u tried to explore the behind it.
Yes. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence supporting evolution. The fossil record, DNA, and vestigial appendages demonstrate that evolution is real. Plus, experiments on lizards have had a single lizard species change so much that 2 groups of lizards couldn't mate any more.
Okay but God created those fossils. I bet you did not know humans were around during the dinosaur times. Oh wow it is so cool how they can not mate. GOD did that he chooses what animals mate and when to stop them. If you do not believe in God How were you made? Where you made by Santa? God created everyone in his image.
They think they created themselves via the life force which emerged out of a mud puddle. They're fools...they won't listen to reason, they want to believe there is no God and no Hell as long as they possibly can, and they are hoping it's forever with no good reason to hope in such meaninglessness of life.
I agree you have to believe in God. one day he is coming back and what a day it will be. I am excited. I pray a lot for him to end the world because this world is pulling apart from God. We need to go back to him. One day everyone will stand before God in judgement.
They believe in evolution because they are sinners and do not want to concede to God's right to rule over them and against their sin. For some reason, they think it's better to die proud than to die believing God is merciful and we need His mercy.
It is absolutely logical to recognize, and wholly reasonable to assume that everything, including evolution must have a starting point. To explain the birth of evolution scientists have presented the totally incredible concept of the big bang ''theory''. The foundation of this fanciful notion is based on the underlying assumption that ''something can be created from nothing'', i.e., the minute speck from which the ever expanding universe and the unfolding process of evolution started. Scientists have never been able to offer a rational nor satisfactory explanation regarding the origin of the ''minute speck''. How did this particle just happen to appear. The explanation for it's sudden and inexplicable presence seems more akin to the hocus pocus of the conjurer rather than logical scientific fact. How was the infinite enormity of space sitting ready to be filled with a mind boggling array of complex chemicals and gases? Nothing from nothing = Nothing. Nothing by nothing=nothing. Nothing + nothing= nothing. All scientific research does appear to indisputably confirm the process of evolution but until a more logical explanation for it's beginning can be established the existence of a ''creator'' cannot be ruled out, thus vindicating the assertion that evolution and a creator are intrinsically linked.
I have never heard any arguments for affirming the consequent. And, any evidence that has been denied has been thoroughly proven to be false. What evidence is being denied?
Evolution has nothing to do with any other theory. We dont have to assume the big bang or any other theory that concerns the period of time before evolution. We have proven for a fact that shit evolves. End of story. The big bang could be totally false and that doesnt change that very simple fact. Also dont act like you understand the most sophisticated physics of modern science because you dont. You're just summarizing it in laymans terms and using your own incredulity as evidence that it isnt true. And we also dont have to know what the beginning of the universe was to rule out a creator. Theres no evidence for a creator at all. Period. Thats all we need to know to not even entertain that question.
see friends evolution have always been successful in telling from where we came,who we are ,and where we go in terms of animals but it had never been able to find out the uniqueness in humans.....
evolution has been successful in telling you that you emerged out of a mud puddle? How is that successful? It tells you that you are nothing but chemical reactions, and you are going nowhere, and that's successful? It's good that you believe life is meaningless, so you feel you are not punished in death? Is that how it works? Is that how it's successful? It makes you believe things that make you feel good or ok with dying?
If a person say that he/she have no faith in god it can be that he/she failed to understand GOD ....Religion is not rival of science nor science is ,as science s advice us to be rational ,questioning in the same way all religious scriptures encourage us to use our power of reason....our faith should not merely be based on influence of others ,emotion or pressure..
If a person arrives at the conclusion that there is no god through the application of science and reason then it is considerably more likely that the case for god is not particularly compelling, rather than that the person did not understand god.
Do you understand that you are dying and that if you don't get saved you will be dead?
I understand that I am dying and that I will be dead when that process is done. Nothing can "save" a person from that fact, although I am sure the delusion is quite comforting to you.
Do you hope to go unpunished in death?
No. I hope for nothing in death because I will be dead.
Are you crazy?
"Well, that's not the clicinal description, but yes, actually." - Daniel Pierce
Because I know where you are going and it's not easy to watch people marching to the fire. But since you are so determined that it is not possible for you to be stuck in eternal death now and forever, since you believe you are living and death is nothing, it really is tiring and repetitive talking to you, a waste of time. I'm doing my best to let you go your own way since you love it so much.
You hope to be dead. You are already dead, a dead man walking and talking. The only difference in Hell is that you will have no indication of God's goodness.
To the contrary. I quite hope to live. Incidentally, I am presently a live person sitting and typing; not that you care much about reality. Also, what indication of "God's goodness" is there in this world? If such a thing existed I would believe in your God, but you have had ample opportunity to prove it and have been unable to. Take a final swing at me if you like.
Well, yes, given that nihil literally means nothing to be nothing-ed would be the equivalent death. If you do not want to debate me then stop replying.
Aren't you nothing who came from nothing and will be nothing so you are annihilated and meaningless? I find your philosophy empty, meaningless, void of worth, and I really don't want to read your rants. I suggest that you don't read mine.
I do not feel in the slightest bit sorry for either of us. It would not do any good. I already have proven you wrong, but you have an aversion to reason.
I have no desire to be annihilated; I merely accept it as inevitable instead of escaping into delusional fictions about an afterlife and salvation. To each their own, but your sympathies are quite wasted on me so do not feel the need to sustain them on my account (not that you really were to begin with). You keep claiming you are not interested in arguing with me, yet here you are back again.
Liar. You hope to be annihilated so that you will be relieved from responsibility for the things you have done, the things you want to do but can't, the things you cannot change though you would like to. You are guilty of doing the things you have done and justice demands you own up to it. You are trying to fool yourself into believing you get off the hook in death, you are pretending to know what you are talking about when your dying has yet to be finalized and you cannot know until then because you are rejecting knowledge until it's forced upon you by God Himself evidenced in the fire of Hell....and if you take your anti-Christ beliefs that far, I believe that even as you are burning in the fire you will STILL try to deny the reality of it's never ending torment. You are being a fool. The only thing you are getting annihilated is everything you think of as good or comforting, because you want God to be totally removed from your forever and He is giving you what you want because He loves you. If you want nothing good from God, that's what you will have in the fire of Hell, and it's much better for you if you believe it now before it's forced upon you and you can't deny it any more.
I am not motivated to avoid responsibility, guilt, or justice because I do not believe in or value those things. My attitude towards your God is incidental to my perspective, as I have already explained repeatedly. You clearly do not understand my philosophy, since you keep forgetting both of those things. I never asked you to risk drowning yourself trying to save me; that is something you do of your own accord to make yourself feel like a good person. Give yourself another cookie with that pat on the back.
You are fooling yourself by believing in things you cannot prove exist. You are avoiding owning up to your delusional proclivities. You are feigning enlightenment, but you are actually drowning in your own delusions.
Everything you can see exists and I can prove it. It clearly shows God made it. You cannot see God because your sin has alienated you, separated you from Him so you are in the dark. God is light, and in Him is no darkness.
Also, the fire of Hell clearly is justice against evil, and you are evil; turned away from and against God but He still loves you, still is kind to you, still pleads with you to return to Him, repent of your sins, and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ in His resurrection and be saved from Hell.
God made you to know Him, and there is something from God in you which tells you these things are true. You fight against them because you know you are guilty and deserve God's judgement.
You are like a scared little child afraid that when the truth comes out and your wickedness is laid out in the open, God will not love you. He loves you and wants you to trust Him. Of course this cannot be proved if you will not believe it, but for the life of me I do not understand why people want to believe God does not love them. If God does not love people, life is not worth going through. God loves you so much He gave His Son to die in your place so you can be forgiven as He is risen from the dead with power to forgive you and make you a child of God. He will be your life and you will have eternal life if you will only receive Him as the gift of God for you. It's only you who is keeping yourself in dying. God is trying to give you eternal life but you have to receive it from God, you have to believe He can give it, you have to admit you need it or you will be a casualty, lost forever to your stinking attitude against the goodness of God. Quit being stinky, believe on Jesus, and get saved.
I would buy that line of cleaning products just for the laugh: God: Gets the tough stains out! Get whiter whites without the worry. Yours for just 8.69, plus tithing.
Don't worry, your philosophy is so simplistically dumb that I only need to read a few words of your posts to know how to respond to you. Your stuff is tiresome, because trying to get you to see that you need to be saved is like swimming into the water with a drowning man whose strength is not gone so the idiot will pull me down with him while I try to get him to a place of safety. Go on and swim in your empty sea for a while. Enjoy it while you can if you think you don't need to be saved from Hell.
You hope to be nothing, because you don't like reality. You are insane. I'm arguing with a guy who believes in nothing for no good reason. I guess that makes me foolish like you.
I hope for nothing. I am ambivalent towards reality. My sanity is not relevant to my argument.
I do not believe in nothing. I disbelieve everything to varying degrees. My reason is "good" only insofar as one arbitrarily adopts the standard of logic, but at least I bother with a rationale.
"I do not believe in nothing. I disbelieve everything to varying degrees."
Ummm, duhhhh, ok, maybe you really do not exist, but you can't really believe it.
Are you there? Please don't answer, I'm sure your answer will only be confusion and you can't believe it completely but you can disbelieve it in varying degrees.
How did you become so unknowing and knowing and all that or whatever you believe or don't believe you think you know but cant' be sure of?.
Ummm, duhhhh, my name is Jace and I don't believe in nothing but I do disbelieve everything in varying degrees.....though I can't really say I know what degrees are because I really do not believe in them entirely. If this does not make sense to you, it's because I understand my nihilism and you do not because you believe you know what I think, but you do not realize that what I said is not what I really meant because you heard it wrong and I can't believe your interpretation of my words. If you are not ready to blow your brains out by now, I sure am but I'm not really believing I can do it so I'm not doing it...that is if I really do exist to make that decision..........
I hope you understand, and I hope you now are clear about what nihilism really is though you really can't believe it is real.
Jace. Peace....well, I'm really can't believe in peace, so I'll just say "out". Out is one thing I can almost believe in because I am out of here. If this sounds stupid, it's good because it can't be sin because there is nothing wrong with anything I do or say...at least I partially believe that, though I really can't believe anything because I'm not really sure I'm even real to begin with ....and I'm not convinced you are real either. Maybe we can all go out in one big suicide pact together and find out.
Have a wonderful day, whatever that is. Give nihilism a try, it works for me...maybe.....nobody can really know, but it feels good to deny knowing anything.
You do not understand nihilism. For starters, you think it is interchangeable with existentialism which it obviously contradicts. Your grasp of nihilism is limited to fatalistic, pop-culture stereotypes rather than a philosophical, reasoned understanding.
I cannot say with absolute certainty what degrees are and cannot codify them with any specificity. I do not need to, and there is no point in doing so. The premise of epistemological nihilism is that nothing can be known with absolute certainty, because everything we think we know we have come to know through our perception which is unreliable. Yet we must operate upon our perception for the very simple reason that we are incapable of conceiving of a means of doing otherwise; even inaction or fatalism is a response to perception. Consequentially, operating upon probable certainty induced by perception is the default. Absolute certainty is not necessary to action or thought.
All you are saying is that you believe their is no possible way for you to know what you are talking about other than to say that you know it's all nonsense and you can't admit it's nonsense because that would make you a laughing stock of the town.
How do you know you arrive at your views when you don't believe nothing and you disbelieve everything in varying degrees? Your "views" are nonsense and double talk, not logic and reason.
I do not know it with absolute certainty, but suspect it to be the case with probable certainty based upon my necessarily perception-dependent observations.
Ummm, duhhhh, my name is Jace and I don't believe in nothing but I do disbelieve everything in varying degrees.....though I can't really say I know what degrees are because I really do not believe in them entirely. If this does not make sense to you, it's because I understand my nihilism and you do not because you believe you know what I think, but you do not realize that what I said is not what I really meant because you heard it wrong and I can't believe your interpretation of my words. If you are not ready to blow your brains out by now, I sure am but I'm not really believing I can do it so I'm not doing it...that is if I really do exist to make that decision..........
I hope you understand, and I hope you now are clear about what nihilism really is though you really can't believe it is real.
Jace. Peace....well, I'm really can't believe in peace, so I'll just say "out". Out is one thing I can almost believe in because I am out of here. If this sounds stupid, it's good because it can't be sin because there is nothing wrong with anything I do or say...at least I partially believe that, though I really can't believe anything because I'm not really sure I'm even real to begin with ....and I'm not convinced you are real either. Maybe we can all go out in one big suicide pact together and find out.
Have a wonderful day, whatever that is. Give nihilism a try, it works for me...maybe.....nobody can really know, but it feels good to deny knowing anything.
nihilism is nothing but slow suicide, and existential religion, I don't know about "fatalism", there's always new twists and new names for existentialism.....zeroism is one of the new ones, I sure there are more than you can name, all basically the same, existential religions...naturalism/atheism with it's evolution is also an existential religion. You are the one who needs an education, not me.........all of those religions are nothing but slow suicide, and the followers think they conquer God and Hell in those religions. It's self-deception if you believe it or not. You talk like you are living in a dream where reality is always shifting, bending, jumping around in impossible ways and making little sense. You are not living in reality, you are dying in reality and loving it as you act so high and mighty and deny everything you are doing and saying. God is going to humble you if you will not humble yourself before Him. If you don't wake up from the confusion of your pride, you will wake up in Hell and it will do you no good to face reality there. Saying you don't believe it or saying it's not real will not excuse you. You are destroying yourself in your religion of nonsense, and God is giving you what you want. You are wanting the wrong things, but God loves you and since you seem to really want the things you believe, I believe God really is going to give it to you and the only place He can give you an eternity void of His goodness.......which is all you are denying...is in the fire of Hell...believe it or not....I've told you enough times.......the only "striking misrepresentation" is that you are trying to misrepresent yourself toward God, and you are striking out. You're only fooling yourself, you can't fool God.
And I suppose you will go on saying stupid things like "I can't fool God because He does not exist ..mindless stuff.....just plain tiring.....
I can understand why you always seem so dark and gloomy and confused.
I never see you say anything contrary to the impression you give of being dark and gloomy. I never see you show any sign of humor, never see you showing in sparkle of light...always dark and gloomy and denying all reality......always serious, always a chip on your shoulder as you try to pretend it's not there.
You are bound and determined to see me the way you want to see me. Nothing I can say or do is going to change that. And, yes, I am more serious on a debate forum; not a reflection of me offline. Again, not that my attitude is relevant to my argument at all. Done here too.
I live in reality. You are bound and determined to deny reality. You think your attitude makes God unreal and makes Hell non-existent. You are dying in reality, in imminent danger of waking up in the fire of Hell, and trying to convince yourself that nothing is real because you can't deal with anything.
You do live in reality, though you have a poor understanding of what that is.
I do not think my attitude makes God unreal or Hell non-existent. I simply do not believe in them, which apparently defines my attitude; you have the causation reversed.
I am indeed dying in reality. I deal with actual things like that quite well, incidentally. I just happen to not conflate fiction and reality.
Oh, I couldn't ban you here. I just have to continue looking away when your face pops up on me, sorry. I hope you get saved from Hell. I know the Savior if you realize that you need Him.
If you keep making comment on my posts I will correct you as you're in need of correction , the belief in hellfire is believed by superstitious individuals who have never learned to think for themselves as you demonstrate beautifully as all your posts are repetitious copy and past jobs from your favourite young earth creationist site .... never have any original thoughts do you whys that ?
As if you have said anything original. There is no shortage of foul mouth fools like yourself, all saying the same thing, boasting of how great they are as they tell themselves they are stronger than God and have the right to exist as long as they live and the right to live as long as they exist......and that right does not even extend to your next heartbeat. You're just a wet pile of dust windbag full of hot air with a tongue set of fire of Hell. You need to get saved by God, but my guess is you think you will dive into eternity with no God....and the only place with no sign of His goodness is Hell where you are leaping off into as you spit cursing all the way down. Have a nice trip, sorry I can't help you.
The only right you have as a sinner is to be in the fire of Hell frying like an eternal sausage....and like a fool you are demanding God prove He rules over you.
You say ....As if you have said anything original. There is no shortage of foul mouth fools like yourself, all saying the same thing, boasting of how great they are as they tell themselves they are stronger than God and have the right to exist as long as they live and the right to live as long as they exist.....
My intention was merely to correct you and point out the fact that not one of your ill formed thoughts are yours but are products of your favourite looney religious sites .
It's not surprising you constantly accuse others of the very faults and traits you display in spades , and again to correct you I never said I was great that's a privelege you seem to have reserved solely for yourself .
I accuse you of hypocrisy which can be seen running through all your rants , you're also judgemental totally ignoring what your religion instructs , you also call anyone a fool who disagrees with you also totally ignoring the fiery fate that awaits one who does so according to the good book .
You're not a Christian by even the lowest standard I've seen over here , you're just a loudmothed hate filled bigot who I suspect is not trying to convince others but is merely trying to convince himself , I wonder what life has done on you to make you so bitter and damaged ?
There is only one thing new in this world, and it is new every moment we are here, every moment we are not in Hell only one thing is new....maybe you can figure out for yourself what that thing is. If you can't figure it out for yourself, it won't do any good for me to tell you what it is.
You hear nothing new in what I am telling you because to you it's the same old same old futility of pain, suffering, and dying and that's all you can believe in because you reject God's love. You insist you do not need His mercy and His kindness toward you is not good enough so you'll just spit into the wind and curse God and die like a fool, won't you?
You don't want to know because you love your sin more than life and think you have the right to exist outside of Hell....so you do everything you can to block out the Truth.
I was thinking of making a debate apologizing for breaking Saintnow. The best part about it is the question he keeps repeating means the exact opposite of what he wants it to mean.
You were the one who banned someone from your debate for creating arguments too fast for you to handle, then posted 20 arguments yourself faster than anyone could respond to. Talk about temper tantrums.
The passage in which Jesus advised against calling your brother a fool was in the context of brothers talking to each other. You are in danger of Hell fire, and if you say to your brother that he is a fool, you may be right but you are in danger of Hell yourself as you are a fool.
You are not my brother. You can call me a fool all day long and you are in danger of Hell fire. I don't care if you call me a fool. I know Whom I have believed. You calling me a fool only shows you are in danger of Hell fire.
I am not your brother. I hope in God's mercy because I need it. You are a fool who thinks He does not need God's mercy. I can call you a fool all day long and it is the truth, and I am not in danger of Hell fire because I am saved from it. I am a child of God, joint-heir of heaven with Jesus Christ, adopted into a new family and my brothers and sisters are in Christ, and He is in them.
You are in the family of Hell with many foul mouth brothers and sisters like yourself who love sin more than life and will not repent.
All of the people in your family dying are fools who need to quit being fools and start fearing God.
It's funny when a fool says the Bible is not God's word and then tries to use it as proof of his argument.
You say ......You are in the family of Hell with many foul mouth brothers and sisters like yourself who love sin more than life and will not repent.....
most my family are religious and we tend to respect each other as I do most believers , you're different from my first enconter with you you've been judgemental and hypocritical and reading your posts you accuse almost everyone of being doomed to a fiery hell even fellow believers , you display all the characteristics of the reformed alcoholic who turns to religion to fill the void ; you need help .
I was using the bible to prove you do not know what's written in your own book of nonsense and I've nothing to prove I was merely correcting your foolish defence you fuckwit :)
So why are you so hateful toward people who believe God loves you? It seems you waste a lot of time fighting against God when you say it's not worth your time.
I think you feel a need to assure yourself that you have the right to exist outside of Hell as a sinner, and that's why you spend so much time expressing your animosity toward God by attacking somebody like me who did you no wrong.
I'm not , as I told you most my family are believers but unlike you they do not bully or demonise people who think differently .You seem to be the worst kind of believer who constantly accuses atheists of fighting a god they don't believe in , if you come onto a debate society and express an opinion why are you shocked that others may think differently ?
If people treat me with respect I will give it back but it seems most believers on this site start with attacks and slurs and I will give back equally what is served up to me .
I have mentioned before I think you display the religious convictions of the former alchoholic who substitutes religion for the bottle , I think you're merely trying to fill a void in your life and it's not working is it ?
You are the person who from the start has bullied me with your foul mouth. Hell is a real place, and if I can plainly see you are in imminent danger of being in it, I am doing you a kindness to try to warn you. Why should that make you angry? If you think what I'm saying is fairy tales, why not shrug your shoulders and move on? Why do you feel you have to pound me into the ground? It's no surprise, the crucified Jesus for telling them the truth about their sin, and Jesus said they would hate me the same if I follow Him....and I gladly deny myself of ungodliness and worldly lusts, and pick up my cross daily and follow my Savior. He fills the void, we all have a void because of sin's abyss in our soul. He is in me a new creation, making me a new creature, yes He fills the void and His filling is all good and I can't get enough.
A person who shows little respect by using expletives to express their feelings deserves little respect, and I have given you far more respect that you deserve. Do you think I desire less respect than you?
If I see people boasting of sin, I know they are in danger of God's punishment. Sin always brings bad consequences. Hell is the ultimate resting place of sin, and God does not want sinners there or you would be there now.
Most "Christians" or "believers" today bear little resemblance to what the Bible describes as a believer. They will be the ones who won't tell you that your sin is evil, they will tolerate your foul mouth, they will probably have a drink with you and tell you that you are good. They are not my kind of Christians. I am crucified with Christ, He took my place in death and gives me a place in His resurrection, in eternal life, I'm going to be like Him and sin will never slow me down again....neither my sin or anybody else's, I won't be spending time trying to warn fools of the consequences of sin......and to call a fool a fool is also a kindness, as to speak less than the truth is apathetic, no different than hateful, to watch a dying man sink down into his grave falling into Hell and say nothing? God loves fools, and when I see them being foolish I'm likely to try to warn them of the fate they are bringing on themselves.
You should just leave me alone if you want to be an atheist and can't show me any respect. You are substituting death for life, and it's all yours, dying is all you have the way you are and your goodness and the goodness of your "believer" friends is corrupt like your rotting corpse as you parade yourself into Hell. I hope you prove me wrong, but I believe you are marching steadily into the fire like a moth flying into the flame.
You are not doing me or anyone else a kindness by forcing your views on them , a devout Muslim says the same as does a Stalinist and their truth is always right , do you not think that the vast majority of atheists were once believers and does it never cross your mind why they no longer believe ?
I note you constantly accuse me of what you are guilty of , I told you already I only reacted to what was served up to me and if you behaved reasonably from the start I would never have resorted to your gutter type of tactics ; you call everyone a fool who disagrees with you yet you demand respect ?
You claim to be a follower of Jesus yet you act and behave in a manner which which clearly demonstrates the hypocrisy of such a claim , why not read some of your posts and ask yourself honestly have you behaved decently to others who disagreed with you ?
All has been said I'm moving on ,I hope you do so also and maybe preach to the converted .
I'm not forcing anything on you. Am I forcing you to read this? What is your problem? You always want to blame others for your feelings or actions? You know what I'm going to say, if you don't like it you don't have to read it.
You call me a hypocrite for claiming to follow Jesus, so that means you know what a good follower would be...so why are you not one? You think it's good to be a follower of Jesus if you are a good one, so why are you not one? You are not one because you don't know what you are talking about because your god is your own mind, you worship yourself. At least you admit that your tactics are "gutter type". Cleaning up your language has not improved your tactics, all you do is try to frame character smears and insults when I speak nothing but the truth. If I sugar coat the truth so you can't get the message, that would be apathetic, hateful, giving you a lollipop to enjoy as one foot is in the grave and the other is on thin ice melting over the fire of Hell. I could just say nothing and let you go on in your dying way forever. I guess that's what you want, so why don't you quit reading my stuff if you can only respond with insults?
Yes you are a hypocrite , I know and have known followers who are good people and indeed follow what they would claim are the teachings of Jesus you are not one of them as you're boastful , judgemental and arrogant .
I'm not a follower because I do not need to believe in a god to lead a good life , you claim you believe yet you're filled with venom and hatred and that's not an insult it's a fact , re -read your posts if you don't believe me .
So the problem remains of you trying to prove that you are a good person, good enough to have the right to exist outside of Hell.
I don't need to re-read my posts. The fear of the Lord is to hate evil. Sin is evil and I hate it, my own sin or yours. You love your sin all the way to Hell, that's a fact. Pride goes before a fall, and you will be cast away from knowing God's love forever....and I truly hope you will prove me wrong on that by repenting and believing on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved.
The people you say are good Christians, if they are not telling you that your sin is taking you to Hell, what good are they? What good is it if they make you enjoy yourself all the way to Hell?
You are not a follower of Christ because you love darkness; you love death. You are trying to escaped in death, and getting mad at me for telling you the truth. Why don't you just go on your merry way? What are you trying to prove with me?
Yes you need to be saved from Hell or you will die in your sins and have none of God' s mercy ever again like you do now. Enjoy while you can if that's the way you want to go out. If you think I'm a hypocrite for telling you the truth, fine. We both are rotten sinners who deserve to die and burn in Hell, but I am forgiven. You can be, but you wont', will you? Are you sure it's not you who is the hippie crit?
You don't know what you are talking about. Muslims say Jesus is a lesser prophet than Muhammed denying He is God. They also teach that it is best for non-Muslims to be killed so they can burn in Hell long enough for God to correct them so that they will forever say Muhammed is the prophet of Allah, and God's name is not Jesus but rather is Allah. After the infidels are corrected by Hell, they all get to go to paradise with Muhammed so it's ok, even good for them, to kill them.
You're a blooming idiot, I don't care how many of your lilly liver "believer" friends and family tell you that you are a good person. We are all sinners who deserve to die and burn in Hell and need God's forgiveness or Hell fire will be our fate. You are going to wake up in Hell if you don't get saved from it, and I doubt that your "believer" friends really care. They are probably sissified catholics, Lutherans, Methodists, epciscopalians, whatever, and t they'll toast your birthday with a glass of Vodka celebrating that you have shaved one more year off your time before you wake up in Hell.
Don't you see that you are demonizing God, and trying to replace Him with yourself? You're going to get yourself cast down into Hell as a fool. You don't have to be that way.
I'm not going to answer you any more except to say you need to be saved from Hell. You act like a rabid devil who only wants to bite God's hand of kindness. Why should I think you have anything other than bitterness for me when that is all you have for God. A bitter old fool who revels in the suffering of children so he can say "see how cruel and evil and useless any god is, and because I say suffering is bad I am therefore better than God".
Go on and cuss your brains out, fool. My guess is you won't believe Hell is real until you find you do not have the right as a sinner to exist outside of it, and who knows how soon that will be?
You are a waste of my time I guess, I've given you more of my time than you deserve.
You truly are King of the fuckwits aren't you ? let me correct you yet again I know it's a book of horseshit you don't so I was schooling you in what you believe according to the book of horseshit ... do try and keep up fuckwit :)
You really need to look up the term atheist don't you ? as you seem somewhat confused .
Maybe someday you should visit a children's cancer ward and watch as devout parents offer up prayers to their God for a terminally sick child you could run over and screech at them .... Wahhh wahhh , boo hooo get over yourselves how dare you demand your child gets better .....
or maybe you might use the much favoured ... God works in mysterious ways ....
Sounds to me that you enjoy the fact that suffering is something you need and enjoy because you use it to accuse God of not being good. So enjoy your suffering as you insist God is not good, and when you wahaahhh wahhh boo hoo about the suffering that touches you, remember, God still loves you. Don't you hate that?
I have spent a lot of time in nursing homes. I have dear friends who are dying of cancer, family who suffered long with altzhiemer's, however you spell it. My dog suffered in agony five hours before dying at my feet. I have my own share of physical suffering I won't talk about but I expect it to get steadily worse if God continues giving me time. I watched my atheistic father with no comfort when my youngest brother was killed. He almost exploded when he heard me say God is good. I cried the same as the atheists in my family, but I was comforted in knowing God will wipe away my tears in a place where there will be no suffering.
You are just bitter and spiteful toward God. You hate God and love death, so you are a glutton for the suffering in the world because you feel it justifies your anger toward God. You are a cold hearted idiot. I don't care how many warm fuzzies you give or get from your friends and family. Your heart is full of bitterness, and you have no comforter other than to imagine you escape in death to be free from suffering.
You are just a hater, hating God and loving death. God loves you still, even if you hate Him forever, He never changes.
You never answered what I asked you regarding a child dying of cancer would you mock the parents for expecting God to bring healing ?
Your father sounds like a good man and his reaction is normal what an embarrassment you must have been to say God is good when the poor man is going through such pain , now I know what you would say to the parents of the child I mentioned how horribly nasty and cruel you are .
You really need to look up the word Atheism again you're still not getting it are you :)
Read it again. I answered. You are playing dumb, acting like you can't hear. God is good. All of the time, God is good. Learn this, fool, and quit being a fool. There is no such thing as a good man, we are all gone bad, all sinners....you prove your badness by your foul mouth which makes your speech repulsive so I don't read your posts usually more than five words. You might want to put all of your cussing in the first five words to be sure and hit me with it before I stop reading....foul mouth fool.
You've been nothing but hateful toward me only because I have refused to back down from the truth. All you have shown me is that at heart, you live a life of a temper tantrum against God because you feel He is not good enough for you. You got it backwards. We are not good enough for Him. It's you who needs schooling, but you won't accept God's judgement against your sin as good. You think you are supposed to be relieved of suffering in death. Atheism is foolishness. You don't get out of being accountable for your errors.
Why in the world would anybody need to "study" atheism. Atheism is stupid. There's nothing hard to understand about it except for why a person like you spends so much time trying to convince themselves that it's good to believe there is no God.
Do you know what happens to people who continually refuse God's counsel, His love, His judgement, saying He is not good? Sooner or later, they suffer some kind of calamity and they desire a power greater than themselves to make it better. Then you know what God does? He laughs at them, He mocks them, because they refused His instruction in which they could have been comforted in troubles.
That's why I'm giving you wahhhh wahhh's and boo hoooo's. You are throwing a temper tantrum at God and it's going to come back and bite you, and how can I feel sorry for you when you are getting what you deserve and refusing God's offer of relief? I don't know what else to say. You won't listen. You think you know more than God. Maybe I'll see you in a nursing home and try to show you some kindness like I have done to many atheists who suffer in places like that....but if you hate God, I won't give you much time and the nurses will try to ease your suffering until you find out that you don't get the last laugh, and you won't believe God does.
You claim Atheism is stupid , yet you believe God came back to earth as Jesus so he could impregnate a Palestinian virgin , so that he could die for our sins before we were born so that he could judge us when we die to see if we're entitled to eternity in heaven ... and yet Atheism is stupid all this from a young earth creationist ?
Now that's hilarious :)
You really need to look up the meaning of the word Atheist get an adult to help you with that :)
Incidentally Muslims think believers like you are also doomed to a lake of fire what if they're right :)
You are a truly nasty person in that you only give comfort to people suffering in hospital if they claim to love God , you're also a liar as you claim all atheists hate God yet you show some of them kindness , caught in your lies again .
Atheism is the assertion of fools. The fool hath said in his heart, "there is no God", and they are corrupt, evildoers who have done wickedly in the time God gave them. Just listen to your stinking foul mouth for proof of the evil you are full of.
The real problem here is not that you are trying to prove I am not a good person, and I already admit that. I'm a sinner who deserves to burn in Hell. I know I've gone bad. The real problem is that you are trying to prove yourself to be a good person, an exercise in futility. You are trying to prove you are not bad enough to deserve to burn in Hell. Your problem is with God, not with me. Attacking the messenger wont' solve your problem, you are still paying for your sin, refusing to believe that God Himself took your punishment on the cross so you can be forgiven in His resurrection through faith in His blood which paid your price so you can be pardoned from Hell.
When did you say you are not sure if you really are real? There is no point in trying to argue with somebody who can't even know if they are real. One of my teachers said that the only way you can begin to reach a person like yourself is to pour a cup of steaming hot coffee on their head.
Religion and science are at odds because religion does not accept science. You are correct about how we should use religion, but religious people disagree with you, not scientists.
Your powers of reason can't keep you from dying and can't keep you from ending up in the Lake of Fire. You have to get saved or you are lost, you need to have eternal life or you have eternal death, and you will end up in Hell.
I feel belief in GOD is entirely reasonable...it confirms to the proven fact that life cannot come to existence by itself.No evidence exists to support the idea that life could spontaneously come from non living matter.
Except that isn't a proven fact, and you've taken the strange stance of declaring not that a type of evidence doesn't exist, but that it can't exist, which is an indefensible claim.
You might want to look at the Miller-Urey experiment...which I doubt you really know anything about...but here's some help for you.
Dr. Timothy Standish of the Geoscience Institute wrote to tell us:
By the way, I noticed what I think may be an error in one of your Swap Sheet Ads entitled, "EVERYONE KNOWS LIFE HAPPENS" It says, "experiments have produced just 2 of the 4 necessary proteins necessary for life." This is news to me. As far as I can tell, nothing like what we would call a real protein has been produced using a prebiotic soup type situation. In any case, life requires many more than 4 proteins. Current estimates, based on the Mycoplasma genitalium genome put the minimum genome necessary for life at about 300-400 genes each of which codes for a protein. Life, even at its most simple, is still mighty complex!
What was I thinking? Unfortunately, five years ago, I wasn’t as careful to document sources as I am today. I found a note in which an undocumented evolutionary source had claimed that in 1974, Stanley Miller was able to produce the “proteins” adenine and guanine, but failed to produce cytosine and thymine. Adenine, guanine, cytosine, and thymine aren’t proteins. They are the four bases in the DNA molecule. But I was so focused on the “half-empty or half-full” perspective that I didn’t even stop to think that the bases aren’t proteins. I was more interested in the idea that two of the four required building blocks could not even be produced in the laboratory under ideal (possibly impossible) “natural” conditions.
Apparently some more recent experiments may have produced all four bases.
Juan Orowin, in 1961, took some of the materials that were produced in the Miller experiments and he took hydrogen cyanide, one of these compounds produced, along with ammonia and left out the aldehyde. So he kind of organized the experiment in a certain way. He produced some amino acids but he also got some adenine, one of the nitrogen containing bases. Later experiments by him and others were actually able to produce the other nucleic acid bases.
I wrote to apologize to Dr. Standish, explaining my error, and he wrote back,
I think of the four bases, cytosine is the sticking point when it comes to generating it using Miller-Urey type conditions. The problem is that not all reports are clear on this. Any way you slice and dice the chemical evolution thing, "experiments" that have been done generating this or that chemical are generally irrelevant to the real problem, which is generation of novel genetic information. Making the bases is merely making the letters to spell out the genetic information. Jonathan Wells wrote about this very well in Icons of Evolution.
We agree that evolutionists face an insurmountable problem when it comes to the origin of genetic information, and that Jonathan Wells’ book is excellent. But there is yet another problem that Wells doesn’t address.
Automobiles are made by natural processes. By that we mean that they are made by people like Henry Ford, not wizards like Harry Potter. No magic power is employed in their construction. No laws of physics are violated. Every step of the manufacturing process is governed by natural law. But the fact that many people have built automobiles using methods available to anyone who isn’t even an apprentice wizard does not prove that automobiles can occur spontaneously in nature without any conscious intent.
When you think about it, you will realize that it is impossible for any laboratory experiment that involves active participation of goal-seeking scientists to prove that a predetermined output can occur apart from conscious effort. It is clearly illogical to say that if an intelligent scientist designs a situation that produces an object, it proves that object can be produced in the absence of an intelligent designer. Yet evolutionists seem to be saying that the reason why nobody has designed an experiment that shows how life can begin without an intelligent designer is that the designers haven’t been intelligent enough.
The only way one could prove that automobiles are naturally-occurring phenomena would be to observe them forming in nature all by themselves.
Let’s take a simpler example. One could grow icicles in a laboratory by allowing water to drip onto a piece of wood suspended above the floor in a very cold room. That would prove that icicles can form under those conditions, but it doesn’t prove that they do form naturally that way (even though they really do form naturally). The only way you can prove icicles occur naturally is to observe them appear on the twigs of trees (or in some other natural environment) without any manipulation by any conscious, living thing.
The fact that one can manufacture a few of the molecules required for life in a laboratory does not prove that those molecules naturally assemble themselves in nature. It only shows you a set of conditions under which organic molecules might naturally assemble themselves. That, in turn, tells you what natural environment would be a good place to look to see if they actually do assemble themselves.
Going back to the icicle example, the laboratory experiment tells you that icicles can form when cold water slowly accumulates on something cold that has some open space below it. So, to see if icicles form naturally, you need to look in cold places where water is present. The laboratory experiment saves you the futility of looking for icicles in the desert on a hot, dry afternoon.
The real value of Stanley Miller’s classic experiment is that it tells us where to look (and where not to look) for the spontaneous formation of living creatures. It tells us that life cannot form anywhere there is free oxygen. That would be as futile as looking for icicles in the desert on an August afternoon. It tells us that some organic molecules might form where there is a high concentration of methane and ammonia. So, scientists should be going to the county dump, examining the thousands of disposable diapers there, to see if life naturally occurs in that environment.
Louis Pasteur is justifiably famous for disproving the spontaneous generation of life. But Stanley Miller deserves even more credit for extending Pasteur’s work by showing exactly why life cannot form spontaneously. Once the theory of evolution is finally discarded by the entire scientific community, perhaps the real meaning and importance of Stanley Miller’s work will be truly appreciated.
The Miller-Urey experiment fell far short of showing life can emerge from non-life, better showing why it is impossible.
The Miller Urey experiment fell far short of demonstrating how life started on Earth, but it didn't fall short of creating life, it did spontaneously create life.
The Miller experiment not only shows that life cannot arise spontaneously, it shows that the reason why it can’t arise is because of the second law of thermodynamics. Miller had to build a machine, including a trap, that would organize low-energy molecules into higher-energy molecules and then isolate them before they would naturally break down. Sugars, proteins, and amino acids naturally break down. They don’t naturally form because it would violate the second law.
Even if you can get the molecules to form, you still have the problem of getting them to operate as a functional organic system. If this could be done, then doctors could get the organic molecules in any dead body to function again, bringing the patient back to life. If doctors could do that, no doubt we would have heard about it on the news.
In other words, the “prebiotic soup” theory isn’t a reasonable explanation for the origin of life because the Earth’s atmosphere never resembled the one simulated in the Miller experiment. The only way to make the experiment relevant is to postulate that such an atmosphere existed on some other planet. Life evolved there, and then hitch-hiked to Earth on a meteorite. Or, maybe there was a small area around a volcano that was similar to Miller’s conditions. Obviously, they are grasping at straws to make the experiment support the theory of evolution.
They are overlooking the obvious importance of Miller's work. Miller’s experiment helped explain why life could not have originated naturally on Earth. Evolutionists don’t want to want to admit that!
Alchemists eventually did enough experiments to convince themselves that one can’t turn lead into gold. For the past 50 years, evolutionists have been doing experiments, trying to turn chemicals into living cells. Sooner or later, the evolutionists will come to the same conclusion the alchemists did.
"In addition to the several radioactive isotopes of gold, the particle collisions presumably produced some amount of the stable isotope gold 197—the stuff of wedding bands and gold bullion—but because it does not decay the researchers were unable to confirm its presence"
The Miller experiment that spontaneously created life in the lab does not prove that spontaneous life is impossible.
They don’t naturally form because it would violate the second law.
That's not how science works. You can't eliminate situations that weren't tested.
Even if you can get the molecules to form, you still have the problem of getting them to operate as a functional organic system. If this could be done, then doctors could get the organic molecules in any dead body to function again, bringing the patient back to life. If doctors could do that, no doubt we would have heard about it on the news.
That's like saying planes could never be built over a hundred years ago because it had not happened before. You described a process that would take scientists centuries to figure out and saying that since it hasn't happened yet it must be completely impossible.
The only way to make the experiment relevant is to postulate that such an atmosphere existed on some other planet.
Wrong. There is another way it is relevant. As a proof of concept the Nicer experiment destroys the objection to abiogenesis. If you asked for a chocolate cake in a world without cake someone creating a vanilla cake eliminates the argument that cake is impossible. Maybe chocolate cake is impossible, but not all cake.
Miller’s experiment helped explain why life could not have originated naturally on Earth
You are assuming that Miller created the only possible abiogenesis. That is a ridiculous statement that you can't prove. How do you know that the abiogenesis Miller created is the only possible abiogenesis?
. Evolutionists don’t want to want to admit that!
Of course they don't want to make false conclusions. You are suggesting that if at first you don't succeed stop trying.
Alchemists eventually did enough experiments to convince themselves that one can’t turn lead into gold.
So, you are saying it takes more than one experiment?
gold. For the past 50 years, evolutionists have been doing experiments, trying to turn chemicals into living cells.
They haven't actually.
. Sooner or later, the evolutionists will come to the same conclusion the alchemists did.
Sounds like a little bit of wishful thinking there.
This is why evolutionists are so easily assumed to be frauds. The Miller experiment did not create life, but the first thing you say is that it did. Science observe reality, practical science manipulates reality. Your belief is not reality. The Miller experiment formed chemical compounds by a highly intelligently designed experiment. That's the fact. To say it created life is ludicrous.
Maybe you should read about what really came out of that experiment.....and forget about what you believe could happen long enough to admit to the facts of what really happened.
I think you have been flying to high in planes with low oxygen, and your brain has become delirious. You always spout of silliness and proclaim it true.
Miller created no abiogenis. No living cells have or can be created in a lab. You can believe they can all you want to, you can say it has been done all you want to. All they have done is waste a lot of money on experiments, and what do they get from it? They can build viruses, wonderful. We need more viruses in the world.
This is why evolutionists are so easily assumed to be frauds. The Miller experiment did not create life, but the first thing you say is that it did. Science observe reality, practical science manipulates reality. Your belief is not reality. The Miller experiment formed chemical compounds by a highly intelligently designed experiment. That's the fact. To say it created life is ludicrous.
It created the chemical compounds known as proteins. Those chemical compounds are only seen in living organisms.
Maybe you should read about what really came out of that experiment.....and forget about what you believe could happen long enough to admit to the facts of what really happened.
Maybe you should since no one denies like you are denying. You don't understand why the Miller experiment was useless.
I think you have been flying to high in planes with low oxygen, and your brain has become delirious. You always spout of silliness and proclaim it true.
You don't understand anything about the world. Stop accusing other people of being unintelligent.
Miller created no abiogenis.
False.
No living cells have or can be created in a lab.
That's not the definition of abiogenesis.
You can believe they can all you want to, you can say it has been done all you want to.
You can move the goalposts all you want to.
All they have done is waste a lot of money on experiments, and what do they get from it?
If you believe God created nature, why are you against learning about nature?
They can build viruses, wonderful. We need more viruses in the world.
It is weird for a virus to talk bad about viruses.
The problem is that dying proves you do not have the right as a sinner to exist outside of Hell, In your imagination you believe you have that right, but God does not bow to your imagination. You will bow to Him one day, in Hell if that is the only way He can get you to bow.
Oh yeah, you already proved me wrong. You made God stop being good to you, so you now have all the proof you need and anybody who does not know you are the god of you is just wrong.
It is only a theory that people EVOLVE, same as religion. Both beliefs may be correct, and that is what I side for. EVOLUTION could not be performed without some mystical force to pop humans and animals around the world. I'm sure we've all heard "WHICH CAME FIRST: the chicken or the egg?" One must question before solving such an answer. Who created us to go through an evolution to gradually become who we are- adept, intelligent beings? Darwin's theory of evolution is only a theory, and although all over my school textbooks scribbles his name and theories across my brain, I believe that evolution must have had a force that would enable such a world to gradually evolve over time. That belief is laid upon God.
Did you not read what I argued on my behalf? The main force is God, not evolution. Evolution is, in my view, just a way for humans to pop around the earth in a more rational way, just as technology develops over time instead of suddenly popping out of nowhere. As a Christian myself, and God forgive me, is God not a belief? To us Christians, what we believe is powerful. To others, they are labeled as beliefs. And YES, evolution is a belief, but it has been theorized to be true. But that does not stop me from believing in God. I find it that you misinterpret my colloquial form of the word "belief." My beliefs are what I place my trust on, just as you believe (or had believed) that your mom will shelter you, that God will protect you, etc. So please, instead of relying on such rote Google definitions to explain what a "belief" is, think outside of the box for others that TRULY BELIEVE.
God is not "the main force". God created all of the forces of nature, He set it all in place, He placed it all together. He created all things by His will, He spoke all things into existence. It was not difficult for Him to do this.
The "faith" you have is not from God. God is not "a belief", He is a person. You need to believe God's Word and let Him be your guide and quit letting Google be your god.
It doesn't matter if you "TRULY BELIEVE" in evolution. Evolution is a lie, God cannot lie. You really are insulting God while you try to bring Him down to your level and make Him fit into your demands of accommodating beliefs in the fairy tales of evolution.
Can you explain why you are not in Hell now? Can you explain why you should be allowed to live outside of Hell? Can you explain why you should be allowed to live at all?
No, it's because you have God's mercy for now. He is angry with you because you are in rebellion, yet He loves you and holds you under mercy keeping you out of Hell for now (if you are still with us). He will run out of patience with you eventually and let you go into the eternity you desire void of all indications of His goodness which you are denying now. God loves you and will give you the desires of your heart. In your heart, you desire to believe God is not good while He is being merciful and allowing you to enjoy good things. His mercy will be withdrawn and you will have what you want, a place where NOTHING can indicate His goodness to you because you will feel nothing but His wrath in the fire of Hell which burns against sin and the One, Jesus, who you refused in life by whom your sins could be covered by His blood will be your Judge when He could have been your Savior, and the cost of His life's blood will be the cost you pay forever unable to relieve your debt as a sinner who can't stop sinning. Saying you don't believe it won't change anything.
No, it's because you have God's mercy for now. He is angry with you because you are in rebellion, yet He loves you and holds you under mercy keeping you out of Hell for now (if you are still with us). Assuming you will never believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and what He did for you by dying in your place so you can be forgiven by Him as He is risen from the dead and willing to forgive you...... He will run out of patience with you eventually and let you go into the eternity you desire void of all indications of His goodness which you are denying now. God loves you and will give you the desires of your heart. In your heart, you desire to believe God is not good while He is being merciful and allowing you to enjoy good things. His mercy will be withdrawn and you will have what you want, a place where NOTHING can indicate His goodness to you because you will feel nothing but His wrath in the fire of Hell which burns against sin and the One, Jesus, who you refused in life by whom your sins could be covered by His blood will be your Judge when He could have been your Savior, and the cost of His life's blood will be the cost you pay forever unable to relieve your debt as a sinner who can't stop sinning. Saying you don't believe it won't change anything.
I have provided evidence and facts and you have presented your imagination. I am trying to figure out why you think your imagination counts as facts and hard evidence counts as imagination. I am not trying to get you to validate what I said. I am trying to get you to validate what you said.
Life is a very complex. Personally, I find it astounding that people think life could've evolved from one simple common ancestor. Don't get me wrong though, evolution is supported by some substantial evidence and in retrospect it is logical to believe that all the organisms on the planet evolved. It is a fact that microevolution occurs today but the same cannot be said about macroevolution. The process of one organism changing into a completely different kind has never been observed and the fossil record provides no evidence whatsoever because the fossils showing intermediate steps between two organisms have never been found. Some may say that the reason for this is because not every organism that dies gets fossilized but billions of organisms have died on Earth. Surely there would be a few fossils that show macroevolution happening. Besides, if evolution is true then why do we have homosexuals?
It is a fact that microevolution occurs today but the same cannot be said about macroevolution. The process of one organism changing into a completely different kind has never been observed and the fossil record provides no evidence whatsoever because the fossils showing intermediate steps between two organisms have never been found.
That is a confusing statement. Macroevolution is an accumulation of microevolutionary steps.
Microevolution has empirical evidence backing it, the transformation of wolves into modern domestic dogs is one example. If you have evidence that shows macroevolution, i.e. one organism turning into a completely different one, please link the website or article.
Wolves into dogs is not evolution...they are still dogs...it's adaptation.....
"microevolution" is the word of a liar, there is no such thing...species adapt to their environment. Dogs and wolves are all dogs, canines. Darwin's finches never changed into anything other than what they always were and always will be...finches.
Bacteria change into nothing but bacterial. It's called adaptation...there is no such thing as evolution, micro nor macro.
Evolution is a fairy tale of events which supposedly happened over millions or billions of years. It's only a belief in things that have never been seen. People who say adaptation resulting in apparent changes in a species is actually evolution are nutso. Dogs are dogs, all came from wolves, all are dogs, they never will turn into cats, birds, monkeys, or people.
You are describing the exact same thing. Again, macro evolution is simply accumulated micro evolution. No species just suddenly "jumps" to another "completely different one".
macro evolution is a belief with no evidence. Micro evolution is nothing but adaptation in which the animal remains whatever animal it is. This is all you can observe in nature, it's all that is ever observed. A fossil of a dinosaur which lived in the water near the shore is only that. Only in fairy land can you believe it turned into a bird.
Early developing hominids such as the homo erectus, homo ergaster, as well as others (all which are displayed in many well done museums), showing gradual development into present-day humans are not evidence of macro evolution? Keep in mind, I'm disregarding the overwhelming amount of fossils found to show gradual development into other present-day species (fish, cats, dogs, birds, etc.), all which you can look up or go to see for yourself.
Look up or go see for myself? What, you want me to look at a bunch of skeletons and believe that the one which was a monkey after a quadzillion years turned into a man? You are believing in something nobody has ever seen, and for some reason you think it's important to fool me into believing the same thing. Why is that? You sound like a broken record parroting that stuff....why do you believe that stuff? Why? And don't tell me "evidence"...there is no evidence for what you believe...your making it up. You want me to believe in things that happened in spans of millions or billions of years with nothing but one fossil here, then anther there, and you expect me to believe it proves what you believe happened over a span of millions of years where nothing was seen or observed and you can't show me anything in those void millions of years? Earth calling...are you serious?
It's not me who is not thinking. People who believe in evolution stopped thinking. They decided to believe a lie, and all they do is strengthen that belief to reinforce their short circuited thinking which they enjoy because they feel like their lives are justified by their own existence so as long as they forgive themselves, they think...hope...everything is ok. It's a religious belief system which is very much akin to Hinduism........evolution, atheism, Hinduism, all are existential religious belief systems and practices.
Now as usual, I expect you to say something bratty like a spoiled little brat, smarty pants childish stuff or cussing like you most of your posts have been, so I'm not going to read the next ten or twenty or so of your posts. If you want to discuss anything with me on an adult level, you'll have to wait a while.....and don't be surprised if I ignore everything you post from here on out
I am sorry, but the people who believe in advancing science are thinking and the ones who stick with the same mentality as someone from 2000 years ago are not thinking.
Evidence beats your belief that it is a lie.
Evolution is not a religion just like gravity is not a religion.
Something bratty like that I am too stubborn to read what you wrote? Or something bratty like I will ignore you and pour in the corner? Or something bratty like you look like ape and you are as smart as one too?
People who believe in evolution stopped thinking. They decided to believe a lie, and all they do is strengthen that belief to reinforce their short circuited thinking which they enjoy because they feel like their lives are justified by their own existence so as long as they forgive themselves, they think...hope...everything is ok. It's a religious belief system which is very much akin to Hinduism........evolution, atheism, Hinduism, all are existential religious belief systems and practices.
Wow, what a highly intelligent well thought out argument. Now you have prove that weebles look like red Christmas trees with green hats and buggy eyes for ornaments.
People who believe in evolution stopped thinking. They decided to believe a lie, and all they do is strengthen that belief to reinforce their short circuited thinking which they enjoy because they feel like their lives are justified by their own existence so as long as they forgive themselves, they think...hope...everything is ok. It's a religious belief system which is very much akin to Hinduism........evolution, atheism, Hinduism, all are existential religious belief systems and practices.
People who believe in evolution stopped thinking. They decided to believe a lie, and all they do is strengthen that belief to reinforce their short circuited thinking which they enjoy because they feel like their lives are justified by their own existence so as long as they forgive themselves, they think...hope...everything is ok. It's a religious belief system which is very much akin to Hinduism........evolution, atheism, Hinduism, all are existential religious belief systems and practices.
Yeah, I'll go along with that. Let's say that God created the process of evolution and peeps in to see what'a happening from time to time. Wonder if he's disappointed with his experiment.
Am imperative question that no one comes across? It is like the number 1 debate topic here.
Evolution is real. You can choose to believe your God created us through evolution or you can choose to believe evolution occurs without God. If you choose to believe God acts without evolution, you are an idiot.
"There are only two possibilities as to how life arose; one is spontaneous generation arising to evolution, the other is a supernatural creative act of God, there is no third possibility. Spontaneous generation that life arose from non-living matter was scientifically disproved 120 years ago by Louis Pasteur and others. That leaves us with only one possible conclusion, that life arose as a creative act of God. I will not accept that philosophically because I do not want to believe in God, therefore I choose to believe in that which I know is scientifically impossible, spontaneous generation arising to evolution."
(Dr. George Wald, evolutionist, Professor Emeritus of Biology at the University at Harvard, Nobel Prize winner in Biology.)
"One has only to contemplate the magnitude of this task to concede that the spontaneous generation of a living organism is impossible. Yet here we are-as a result, I believe, of spontaneous generation."
(Dr. George Wald Evolutionist, Professor Emeritus of Biology at the University at Harvard, Nobel Prize winner in Biology.)
That is not evolution. That is abiogenisis. They are independent of each other. Your source is incorrect also. Abiogenesis has been proven to be possible.
Spontaneous generation has been performed in a lab. It is possible.
That would be incorrect. The spoon that you feed from, needs to be replaced.
"The probability of life originating from accident is comparable to the probability of the unabridged dictionary resulting from an explosion in a printing shop."
(Dr. Edwin Conklin, evolutionist and professor of biology at Princeton University.)
The Science and Theory of Evolution as passed every single test and experiment EVER thrown at it. And with flying colors. We see signs of evolution in every day life. IN every single species. The human body, contrary to what Creationists will tell you, is FAR from perfect. We have several of what Biologists and physicians call "vestigial" traits that signify the fact we evolved. Our tailbones are one. The eye--far from perfect! The freakin' optic nerve is backwards. Look it up! All of this point to a process where the species (us) began with an imperfect and fledgling genetic mutation and then had it improved upon through selective inheritance. Over eons of time.
But for Creation? Or God? LOL. Not ONE bit of proof. Not ONE single hint, even.
There is quite simply no comparison in the amount of proof available when science counters religion with the process of Evolution. It is documented through tens of thousands of fossils. Despite what some Creationists will tell you, the fossil record is abundant. And yes--we have many many transitional fossils that show the stages of Evolution. Google this, and prepare to be astounded.
Again, there is not ONE argument that evolution cannot answer. The religious zealots on the other hand, cannot provide one but of proof for their Creation idea.
LOl--All they can do is parrot their age-worn and lame response, "Prove god doesn't exist."
See Carl Sagan's "Dragon in my Garage" fable on how this is an absurd response.
If someone makes the claim that a god created something the onus is on them to prove so. Ideas are not correct because they haven't been proven wrong, that would be akin to Russell's Teapot. It would be better to instead base our ideas off of things we can prove. Sciences' aim is not to disprove any god but to instead explain the things around us through repeatable and falsifiable experimentation. Science has no business disproving something that hasn't been proven.
Yet, when we present the bible as factual its dismissed. Why do we present it as fact? because its the word of God. Yet, science and other people with opinions say its not... without proof.
"instead base our ideas off of things we can prove."
Science is only based on that of which is currently known.
"Science has no business disproving something that hasn't been proven."
The proof is you're here and breathing. These are facts (bible) that over 80% of the populace (american) believes. The other +/-19% have other ideas of existence. Our existence is exactly why science is exists, we use it to analyze and interpret our existence and reality. So, disproving and proving is exactly the business it is in. The fact: Science has not disproved God, so you cannot make the claim he didn't. Since the beginning of time, our existence was credited to a creator. The burden of proof lay's on your doorstep, in which you claim you have no business doing.
"Science has no business disproving something that hasn't been proven."
Really? Really really? that makes absolutely zero sense.
"Science has no business disproving something that hasn't been proven."
All scientists, STOP where you are at. You are no in the business in proving or disproving.
Science has disproved the bible. Science has not disproved God.
The proof is you're here and breathing.
Science has provided an explanation for that that does not involve God. Therefore, that is not evidence if God.
These are facts (bible) that over 80% of the populace (american) believe
Ad populum fallacy
Our existence is exactly why science is exists, we use it to analyze and interpret our existence and reality.
Our existence is exactly why religion exists. We invented it to interpret our existence and reality.
Since the beginning of time, our existence was credited to a creator
And now it isn't. Don't people usually get smarter as time goes on?
Really? Really really? that makes absolutely zero sense.
You have claimed that God exists and you have no actual evidence for it. Science deals with topics that have evidence. Therefore, science doesn't deal with God.
You are no in the business in proving or disproving.
Science is in the business of proving or disproving the rest of science.
"Science has disproved the bible. Science has not disproved God."
First ive ever heard of this, Prove it?
"Science has provided an explanation".
No, they have not.
"Our existence is exactly why religion exists. We invented it to interpret our existence and reality."
You cant invent something that already existed.
"And now it isn't. Don't people usually get smarter as time goes on?"
Sure.
"You have claimed that God exists and you have no actual evidence for it. Science deals with topics that have evidence. Therefore, science doesn't deal with God."
"Science is in the business of proving or disproving the rest of science."
If you put credit in the opinions of Nobel prize winners, then surely you should be giving credence to biology as more recipients of said prize have studied evolution than divine genesis.
No they don't. Which scientist said that the fossil record doesn't disprove Genesis? Which scientist says that science doesn't explain stuff? Which scientist said that religion always existed?
The fact: Science has not disproved God, so you cannot make the claim he didn't.
I didn't make that claim, you should try to address my argument instead of avoiding it. I said that you saying god created everything is an unsupported argument. I further said that saying god hasn't been disproven is a form of Russell's Teapot, something not being disproven does not lead logically to the idea being proven or sound.
I assumed you concede the point since you are now moving on with your strawman claim.
because its the word of God. Yet, science and other people with opinions say its not... without proof.
Demonstrate that the bible is the word of god. It hasn't been demonstrated that is why this idea is without proof.
The proof is you're here and breathing.
Jumping to conclusions. A tree is not proof of god, me breathing is not proof of god, existence itself is not evidence for god. Those things are evidence for themselves.
These are facts (bible) that over 80% of the populace (american) believes
The fallacy of ad populum. I wonder how many Muslims in the Middle East believe in their god? This line of reasoning you use does not lead to valid conclusions.
Since the beginning of time, our existence was credited to a creator. The burden of proof lay's on your doorstep,
Appeal to tradition. Just because things used to be held as "knowledge" doesn't mean that they still should be, especially since our knowledge base grows. Old things found to be untenable because current knowledge does not support it doesn't mean old ideas should supersede new knowledge just because we "used to" think something. Previously gods were thought to be responsible for lightening, earth quakes, the tides and so on, as our knowledge increased we have replaced guesses with testable knowledge.
If this erodes your god that is your problem and not the aim of science but a byproduct of sciences aim to understand the phenomenon around us.
Our existence is exactly why science is exists, we use it to analyze and interpret our existence and reality. So, disproving and proving is exactly the business it is in.
Sure science disproves and proves things, but this doesn't go against what I said. I said science has no business disproving something that hasn't been proven. See;
"Science has no business disproving something that hasn't been proven."
All scientists, STOP where you are at. You are no in the business in proving or disproving
Yeah, thats not a conclusion you can validly reach from that sentence you quoted.
If something isn't proven, you cannot "disprove" it then can you? Can you thaw something that hasn't been frozen?
You are not using sound logic in your claims and in fact base some of your logic on well known logical fallacies. It appears you disputed me as a knee jerk reaction. Your inability to address what I have said leads me to believe you are not critically thinking or reading what I wrote.
It appears you disputed me as a knee jerk reaction. Your inability to address what I have said leads me to believe you are not critically thinking or reading what I wrote - "Science has no business disproving something that hasn't been proven."
The same argument is also applicable to evolution the birth of which is based on the flawed and outrageously ridiculous ''big bang theory''. See my post in the opposing column.
Ah, Cartman, the site's mischievous little provocateur is present once again to maintain his monotonous regularity of being wrong. Don't you ever get tired being wrong? Evolution, like everything else has to have a starting point. The starting point for evolution is claimed to be the big bang theory. That is unless you can enlighten us all with your recent discovery on the origin of the universe. I look forward to reading this scientific publication when it's released.
You have created a straw man to attack rather than taking the actual claims from science to attack. Your stance is based on a flawed representation of the science of evolution.
I suggest you learn what your opposition really has to say then base your argument from that.
"There are only two possibilities as to how life arose; one is spontaneous generation arising to evolution, the other is a supernatural creative act of God, there is no third possibility. Spontaneous generation that life arose from non-living matter was scientifically disproved 120 years ago by Louis Pasteur and others. That leaves us with only one possible conclusion, that life arose as a creative act of God. I will not accept that philosophically because I do not want to believe in God, therefore I choose to believe in that which I know is scientifically impossible, spontaneous generation arising to evolution."
(Dr. George Wald, evolutionist, Professor Emeritus of Biology at the University at Harvard, Nobel Prize winner in Biology.)
George Wald doesn't speak for all of science nor does this claimed representation fit accurately to what science says. In fact your quote is a a falsehood that misrepresents what Wald actually said. Here is what he actually said;
The great idea emerges originally in the consciousness of the race as a vague intuition; and this is the form it keeps, rude and imposing, in myth, tradition and poetry. This is its core, its enduring aspect. In this form science finds it, clothes it with fact, analyses its content, develops its detail, rejects it, and finds it ever again. In achieving the scientific view, we do not ever wholly lose the intuitive, the mythological. Both have meaning for us, and neither is complete without the other. The Book of Genesis contains still our poem of the Creation; and when God questions Job out of the whirlwind, He questions us.
Let me cite an example. Throughout our history we have entertained two kinds of views of the origin of life: one that life was created supernaturally, the other that it arose "spontaneously" from nonliving material. In the 17th to 19th centuries those opinions provided the ground of a great and bitter controversy. There came a curious point, toward the end of the 18th century, when each side of the controversy was represented by a Roman Catholic priest. The principle opponent of the theory of the spontaneous generation was then the Abbe Lazzaro Spallanzani, an Italian priest; and its principal champion was John Turberville Needham, an English Jesuit.
Since the only alternative to some form of spontaneous generation is a belief in supernatural creation, and since the latter view seems firmly implanted in the Judeo-Christian theology, I wondered for a time how a priest could support the theory of spontaneous generation. Needham tells one plainly. The opening paragraphs of the Book of Genesis can in fact be reconciled with either view. In its first account of Creation, it says not quite that God made living things, but He commanded the earth and waters to produce them. The language used is: "let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life.... Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind." In the second version of creation the language is different and suggests a direct creative act: "And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air...." In both accounts man himself--and woman--are made by God's direct intervention. The myth itself therefore offers justification for either view. Needham took the position that the earth and waters, having once been ordered to bring forth life, remained ever after free to do so; and this is what we mean by spontaneous generation.
This great controversy ended in the mid-19th century with the experiments of Louis Pasteur, which seemed to dispose finally of the possibility of spontaneous generation. For almost a century afterward biologists proudly taught their students this history and the firm conclusion that spontaneous generation had been scientifically refuted and could not possibly occur. Does this mean that they accepted the alternative view, a supernatural creation of life? Not at all. They had no theory of the origin of life, and if pressed were likely to explain that questions involving such unique events as origins and endings have no place in science.
A few years ago, however, this question re-emerged in a new form. Conceding that spontaneous generation doe not occur on earth under present circumstances, it asks how, under circumstances that prevailed earlier upon this planet, spontaneous generation did occur and was the source of the earliest living organisms. Within the past 10 years this has gone from a remote and patchwork argument spun by a few venturesome persons--A. I. Oparin in Russia, J. B. S. Haldane in England--to a favored position, proclaimed with enthusiasm by many biologists.
Have I cited here a good instance of my thesis? I had said that in these great questions one finds two opposed views, each of which is periodically espoused by science. In my example I seem to have presented a supernatural and a naturalistic view, which were indeed opposed to each other, but only one of which was ever defended scientifically. In this case it would seem that science has vacillated, not between two theories, but between one theory and no theory.
That, however, is not the end of the matter. Our present concept of the origin of life leads to the position that, in a universe composed as ours is, life inevitably arises wherever conditions permit. We look upon life as part of the order of nature. It does not emerge immediately with the establishment of that order; long ages must pass before [page 100 | page 101] it appears. Yet given enough time, it is an inevitable consequence of that order. When speaking for myself, I do not tend to make sentences containing the word God; but what do those persons mean who make such sentences? They mean a great many different things; indeed I would be happy to know what they mean much better than I have yet been able to discover. I have asked as opportunity offered, and intend to go on asking. What I have learned is that many educated persons now tend to equate their concept of God with their concept of the order of nature. This is not a new idea; I think it is firmly grounded in the philosophy of Spinoza. When we as scientists say then that life originated inevitably as part of the order of our universe, we are using different words but do not necessary mean a different thing from what some others mean who say that God created life. It is not only in science that great ideas come to encompass their own negation. That is true in religion also; and man's concept of God changes as he changes.
Pasteur's experiment shows that current living things cannot be formed whole from nothing, this goes against creationism not evolution. According to the theory of evolution things didn't start out in their current form but rather were built upon from past models. To take Wald's quotes out of context to change his meanings does not support your stance, but it does support my claims that you are attacking strawmen instead of the claims made by science.
George Wald doesn't speak for all of science nor does this claimed representation fit accurately to what science says. In fact your quote is a a falsehood that misrepresents what Wald actually said. Here is what he actually said;
"A further aspect I should like to discuss is what I call the practice of infinite escape clauses. I believe we developed this practice to avoid facing the conclusion that the probability of self-reproducing state is zero. This is what we must conclude from classical quantum mechanical principles as Wigner demonstrated"
(Sidney W. Fox, "The Origins of Pre-Biological Systems)
"The world is too complicated in all parts and interconnections to be due to chance alone. I am convinced that the existence of life with all its order in each of its organisms is simply too well put together. Each part of a living thing depends on all its other parts to function. How does each part know? How is each part specified at conception? The more one learns of biochemistry the more unbelievable it becomes unless there is some type of organizing principle---an architect."
(Scientist Allan Sandage)
"All of us who study the origin of life find that the more we look into it, the more we feel it is too complex to have evolved anywhere. We all believe as an article of faith that life evolved from dead matter on this planet. It is just that life's complexity is so great, it is hard for us to imagine that it did."
(Dr. Harold Urey, Nobel Prize winner)
"Hypothesis [evolution] based on no evidence and irreconcilable with the facts....These classical evolutionary theories are a gross over-simplification of an immensely complex and intricate mass of facts, and it amazes me that they are swallowed so uncritically and readily, and for such a long time, by so many scientists without a murmur of protest."
(Sir Ernst Chan, Nobel Prize winner for developing penicillin)
What scientist and what field, do you want them from?
You didn't seem to address the fact that your quote from Wald is a misrepresentation of what Wald said. Are you conceding the point where you have used a false quote and are now running to more quotes for me to check their validity?
I am saying that you are falling err to your cognitive biases. You have accepted "evidence" that is fabricated and or misleading and instead of addressing that you just keep going looking for more evidence that agrees with your position. But really it doesn't bolster your position any.
To find scientists who agree there is a god doesn't prove there is a god, they haven't demonstrated their claims but rather offered an opinion. Finding scientists who disagree with evolution doesn't bolster your position either. These few scientists do not represent a larger body of scientists who do agree with the theory of evolution. I see no reason to take these few scientists word over this subject over the vast majority of scientists who agree with the evidence for evolution.
It is the body of evidence that matters. Evolution has lots of empirical evidence it has and is happening, a god not so much.
But hey, what about your Wald quote? Still going to use it even though it is a complete lie? What do you think of your source who propagated that lie? Does it matter to you at all?
Evolution, like everything else has to have a starting point
We know the starting point happened. The universe exists so we know for sure that the precursor to evolution happened. Life exists so we know for sure that the precursors to life existed. To claim that not knowing how the precursor works means that all the information that you do know is wrong is ridiculous.
e starting point for evolution is claimed to be the big bang theory
No it isn't. Do you ever get tired of being wrong? No one in the scientific community says that the big bang is the starting point of evolution. That lie is said by stupid people like Hovind. Evolution has the starting point of needing life to exist first. Anything can create life. Something created life and evolution took over. That is indisputable.
You clearly don't look forward to the scientific discovery you like to get your science from stupid religious people.
You are responsible for your own actions. You have been warned of the reality of Hell which confines sinners, separates them forever from all of God's goodness, consumes them forever so their sinning can no longer affect God's creation.
You are carrying your burden of proof for yourself. You think you are proving that you can't end up in Hell, and the only way you can really prove what you believe is in dying. You are carrying your own burden all the way to the grave.
Go ahead and prove it. Your burden is your own, you are proving it for yourself. Don't blame me if you find out that the proof is unbearable and you don't like it.
"We should reject, as a matter of principle the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
(Biochemist, Franklin M. Harold "The Way of the Cell," page 205)
He is saying that we don't know the answer yet, not that there is no answer. Throughout human existence we have not had all of the answers. Throughout human existence people like you have decided that the things without answers were done by God. Throughout human history the aspects of life attributed to God have dwindled. This is called the God of the gaps.
He is saying it's a matter of "principal", and that "principal" is nothing but pride, in spite of the "wishful thinking" needed to believe in evolution. God is the only answer for life. You are clinging to "wishful thinking", afraid God does not love you and afraid to trust that His way is best for you.
Why would you use the word principal and quote it to prove you know it is the wrong way to use it? Your use of quotes around wishful thinking denotes the exact opposite of what you are trying to say. I don't have wishful thinking and the use of quotes indicates that whoever is saying wishful thinking is using the wrong term, but since you are the only one using that term you are making fun of yourself.
Why would you expect me to read any of your stuff? FYI, I usually do not finish reading the first sentence you write. The first few words you type usually show your evil and it's wearisome.
Why would you expect me to read any of your stuff?
You should read that last one because all I was doing was asking what you meant by your argument. I was actually not arguing against what you said because what you actually said sounded like you were agreeing with me. If you don't actually read what I wrote and respond to it it will only indicate that you are stupid for intentionally using a word incorrectly, and that you agree with me. So, in this instance it would be a really good idea.
I read here "you should" but I don't see any reason to read any more of your stuff. In those two words alone, I can see your attitude so I know it's going to be more of the same from you and I'm not interested.
"We should reject, as a matter of principle the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
(Biochemist, Franklin M. Harold "The Way of the Cell," page 205)
He very clearly said "we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
He said all we have is wishful speculations. Your desire for the answer supporting your belief is nothing but wishful speculations, that is all you have...wishing to escape God's judgement against your evils.
All you have shown is the great concept that is science. In science you can't claim to know the answer before you have actually figured it out. He is saying that we don't have the answer to abiogenesis yet. That doesn't help you. He isn't saying that we will never know the answer. He isn't even saying that Darwinian model isn't possible for abiogenesis. He is simply saying that we don't have the actual answer. The funny thing is that science has wishful thinking as the alternative. You have the exact opposite. You have unwishful thinking. All you have is the scenarios you don't want to see.
You seem to only have the God of the gaps argument. If we can't explain it, it must be God. Well, the amount of stiff that could only be explained by God shrinks all the time. All you have is the hope that there will be something left unexplained do you can keep your beliefs.
We are products of Evolution. The evidence for this is so mountainous and comprehensive, as well as being bereft of any serious alternative explanation, as to be all but irrefutable.
The evidence for any sort of a god, however, is scant. So miniscule and spurious as to be basically negligible.
Thus, I am choosing the former explanation. This is a no-brainer for me.
When somebody furnishes me with ANY sort of evidence, or even a tiny HINT for a god, then I will listen. But as of yet that day has yet to come.
Evolution has got so much evidence behind it. To deny it is to revel in close-minded belief bias. In fact, the evidence for evolution is so vast it can be divided into several distinct fields of evidence (DNA evidence, fossil record evidence, homologous structual evidence, etc.)
DNA evidence: ALL species share common genetic material. You even share portions of your DNA with your dog, your cat, heck, even your pet goldfish! The genetic code is universal. This is why scientists can genetically modify organisms; we all share common genetic backgrounds, which is why genes can easily be transmitted via a vector across two very different organisms and still code for the same proteins, leading to an eventual change in phenotype (the physical manifestation of the protein the gene codes for). More closely related organisms (organisms with more recent common ancestor) have even more DNA in common. For example, our DNA is 99% identical to that of chimpanzees because we share a common ancestor with them who lived about 6 million years ago (quite a short time relative to the huge evolutionary time scale.) This points to the conclusion that all species evolve from common ancestors, and that all species share a common ancestor.
Fossil record evidence: If you've ever taken a Biology class, heck even a Social Studies class (I kid you not, we actually discussed this in Social Studies!) you may be familiar with a few of the waves of hominids such as Homo Erectus, Homo Habilis, Neanderthals etc. Scientists have discovered many fossils of these hominids. Careful observation of these fossils shows that each of these species were distinct from the others, the more recent ones being more similar to modern day humans, Homo Sapiens. This is physical evidence that human evolution took place. I strictly discussed human evolution, but this can actually be applied to pretty much every other species whose earlier fossils have
Evolution is a belief, a hypothesis, and nothing more. You take data and make conclusions based on your beliefs. You cling to your belief because you want to escape God's judgement against your evils. The only answer for you is the fire of Hell, and you will probably defy God and say there is no Hell until you find yourself frying there unable to escape.
Because your belief is nothing but a hypothesis, your main argument becomes insults against God and those who say He is good. I've seen this from some of the most highly educated people in science....they resort to insults, hypothetical absurdities, deviations of topic to evade reasonable objection to conclusions based on hypothesis. Every time I read the arguments put up by atheists, I end up saying...."what a waste of time". I suppose God gives some credit for those who try to honor Him by reaching out to lost people trying to get them to listen to the truth. We all deserve to die and burn in Hell as unholy sinners not worthy to be in God's presence. God Himself became a man to pay our price in death, and rose from the dead to justify all who believe on Him. The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Receive Him today as your Savior and be saved from your sins forever, and thank God that heaven is your home. If you have received the gift of God, you have eternal life. If you refuse His gift, you have eternal death and God will leave you cast away like stinking garbage in the fire pit of Hell. That's the way it is, like it or not. I like it myself. Praise the Lord!!!
"Nothing but a hypothesis". That's quite ironically exactly what creationism is... evolution is a scientific theory with heaps of evidence behind it. The great thing about science is that it's true whether you believe in it or not, while religious beliefs are only true to those who claim them. Evolution is not a matter of belief, it is a matter of fact.
People who believe in evolution stopped thinking. They decided to believe a lie, and all they do is strengthen that belief to reinforce their short circuited thinking which they enjoy because they feel like their lives are justified by their own existence so as long as they forgive themselves, they think...hope...everything is ok. It's a religious belief system which is very much akin to Hinduism........evolution, atheism, Hinduism, all are existential religious belief systems and practices.
Show me one monkey turning into a man. If you show me a bunch of different skeletons, I will concede that you showed me a bunch of different skeletons but failed to show me a monkey turning into a man.
Your belief depends on millions of years between skeletons, millions of years in which you observed nothing but you still believe during that time a monkey turned into a man. If you want to believe that garbage, go ahead. You do not need it for science.
This is one of, if not the, most common misconceptions people have about evolution. Apes didn't magically become humans; we share a common ancestor with apes, from which we both branched off and evolved separately. No evolutionary biologist in the world will tell you that apes just became humans.
You are a hater, so I guess you would enjoy a video making a mockery of hatred...assuming that's what it is, I won't be watching it. God loves you, hater.
You promote hatred against God. God loves you. You always try to twist His love into hatred by finding fault with people who say God loves you.
We all need forgiveness. You are not any better than the people you find fault with. We all need mercy or we have nothing but death. Time is a gift from God, and you abuse that gift by using it to blaspheme. You insist God cannot rule over or against you and in so doing you leave Him no other way to show you that to leave you burning in Hell. You are choosing your own way against God's love. You weary me with your hatred, so I give little if any time to reading anything you say. Your video mocking hatred is a waste of time. You enjoy it because you feel better with hatred then you do with God's love. You don't want to repent of your sin so you get your bang out of hatred. I hope you prove me wrong, but I'm see no evidence and weary of the drudgery you put yourself through fighting against God.