God doesn't love us.
Side Score: 279
Side Score: 297
I believe what we're entering into here is the problem of evil presented by Epicurus, which is an extremely solid logical argument against the existance of the classical Abrahamic Gods (Omniscient, Omnipotent and Omnibenevelent).
Logically, this triad of traits is contradictory and inconsistant. It states at the most basic level that:
1. If a perfectly good god exists, then there is no evil in the world.
2. There is evil in the world.
3. Therefore, a perfectly good god does not exist.
This stands up extremely well logically. One can argue that a god would have allowed evil to exist to give us the free will to defy it, but this then goes against the Omniscience property of god.
Simply put, you can not logically accept the standard definition of the Abrahamic Gods (all knowing, all powerful, all loving) and accept that god loves us. However, I extend a challange to anyone who can show logically that God can have all three of these powers and still love us.
Side: the inconsistent triad
There's something I don't understand about your argument. Why would God being omniscient deny free will? Are you arguing that if he made us and formed our circumstances he essentially made our choices for us? Or is there something else to this argument that I'm missing? My main question about all this is, this: is there any sort of X factor...an element of true human free will? Or are we truly products of the way we were made, plus our circumstances and the decisions of those around us(which aren't their own either, of course)? I don't know the answer to this question, but I'm really curious about it. I know I'm getting a bit off topic, but to me this directly relates to whether or not there is a god...well, whether or not there is a biblical god anyway.
I have another thought as well. I'm not sure I believe it, but it's something I've thrown around in my head. Would we know that we are broken people if it weren't for suffering? Would we know that we need God? Anyone have any thoughts on any of this? I'm probably just going to post my own debate, on this, since I'm clearly very curious about it. haha.
Side: free will
Omniscient means that he knows all things in all times. If he knows the future and knows the 'choices' you will make, how can there be any free will? He knows in advance the choices we are going to make, which evils we are going to suffer, the sins we are going to perform, etc.
He apparently "made us," knowing before he even made us what every single person he was ever going to make would do throughout their entire life (because he is omniscient, and knows all things). How can there possibly be free will if our choices are made for us before we're even created?
The classic argument against this is the "Tree of knowledge". Basically, evil would not exist, were it not for the eating fruit from this tree, against God's will, through Satan's temptation. Or, in another interpretation, because Eve had sex with Satan.
Which leads to the simple question. Why would God provide the temptation in the first place if he were all-knowing and all-loving? So basically, this argument fails.
My argument is that when speaking of dichotomous ideas such as good and evil, you cannot have one without the other. So were evil to not exist in this world, then neither would good. Were hate to not exist, then neither would love. It is the nature of these things to need their opposite in order to exist.
It is a natural thing to know right and wrong. Cannibalism is wrong, why? Because species are programmed in their genetic code to not consume another of its species. Evil arises from the natural trait for greed. Good arises from a species that can comprehend the goal to help the species, not just oneself. Therefore morals arise naturally.
"1. If a perfectly good god exists, then there is no evil in the world.
2. There is evil in the world.
3. Therefore, a perfectly good god does not exist."
You cannot have good without evil. Due to free will Satan fell from grace and took up residence in Hell. God could have stopped him but because of free will He let the devil do what he wanted. God loves us because he gives us chances to redeem ourselves, like going to confession instead of sending us straight to Hell.
Why do we need to be redeemed? Maybe God does not deserve to be God. God is just as guilty as the devil, for those who do nothing to prevent evil when they have the power or oppurtunity to do so are just as evil, even cowardly. The point is that an all good, all knowing, all powerful god would make a universe where free will does not lead to evil. That is if he is all good. Personally, any god that can sit back and not help out, and then punish people for an eternity does not seem all good or loving to me.
I am afraid I find fault in your premise. the first one make an assumption that does not follow the initial part of the premise. While a perfectly good god may exist, it does not follow that there should be no reason for evil in the world.
Since nature pretty well shows us there is balance to be maintained, one would more likely to assume that once good was created then evil was created in the same instant.
But god is all-knowing, therefore there is no free will. He knows in advance the choices we are going to make, which evils we are going to suffer, the sins we are going to perform, etc. He knows this all in advance, and knows who is and isn't going to go to heaven. Unfortunately, with the triad of powers that god has (all-knowing, all-powerful, all-loving) there's no leeway for free will. Without this important element of free will, god obviously doesn't love us.
Side: the inconsistent triad
No, you are just imagining that (s)he does, I can imagine that my worst enemy loves me when (s)he clearly wouldn't. Pretending isn't the same, that's just you loving yourself in a weird way.
"god" loving us implies that (s)he would be reacting to things that happen to us. If god does not exist then it cannot have a reaction, therefore there is no love there.
Side: No god equals no love
I think that not only does he not love us, but he's bored with us. That's why we never really see acts of him anymore. And if someone wants to rebut that by saying "But people see signs of Jesus everywhere!" then they are full of shit because if you see a picture of Jesus on a billboard on the highway, that isn't a work of G-d, its just some random guy thinking he's funny.
Or, maybe, just maybe, he is actually a SHE! which would explain so much more because women can give birth and men cannot and, supposing that she isn't necessarily a higher being but just another species, then she could also be hemephoradorous in which case everything that we think and believe would all make more sense!
All of creation testifies that God exists and acts each and every day. The sun rises and sets, babies are given the breath of life, there are a seemingly limitless number of species with a seemingly limitless number of unique behaviors, each human being is different down to his thumbprint, the ocean only comes just so far, etc. You are a thinking, feeling sole that woke up this morning because God is alive and active.
I have to agree with the great philosopher, Bertrand Russell, who wrote that "Religion is based, I think, primarily and mainly upon fear." A study of the history of religions would show how each belief system changed as the level of crop-growing technology changed and societies moved from worshiping multiple gods toward following a single god. An open-minded analysis would show that God and religion are reflections of the human mind.
Religion Is Self-Delusion (en.wikipedia.org)
Side: Man Creates God
No. The sun gives the appearance of rising and falling due to the rotation of the earth as it orbits the sun. Babies breathing, limitless number of species, unique behaviours and the fact that I'm a thinking feeling soul are all due to the power of evolution; not a god.
And things such as "the ocean only comes just so far" are backwards thinking; as if the earth is here for us rather than we being here because the conditions of the earth allowed it.
No, I am a living human because my parents wanted kids. The soul is once again a creation of early humans to explain and comfort the unease torwards death. We are different because no DNA strand ever copies exactly the same. This is called mutation. Stop reguarding religion as the only truth. Science can coexist with God and/or religion. Religion and/or God cannot coexist with science. End game.
I see some people that go to church every week of their lives and never get an ounce of good luck and then I see those people who are agnostic and have life good. I think being of any religion takes up way too much time and is not worth it because one cannot communicate with G-d to even see if what we are doing is to His pleasure or not. So for all we know people of the agnostic faith may have chosen the right path.
I think the only thing we do know is that Christians during the Crusades and Muslim terrorists are in the wrong no matter what.
Oh me, Oh my! I didn't realize that THIS was in the bible, read this:
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
Oh My! God has been a very naughty person lately, with all those slaves...
Seriously, Christians, do you really believe God is all good and nice? If you hate slavery (Not to mention sexism), then you will hate this verse in the bible but uh-oh, the bible happens to be the word of God, so if you hate slavery (Which is the most evil thing ever) then You.Would.Deny.The.WORD.OF.GOD!!! Ooooooohh Snaaaaaapp!
If you even attempt to justify this, then you are hopeless and a slaver okay? There is no way to ignore this unless you love slavery, okay? Uugh, but I know there must be slavers out there who would negatively reply to this anyway, so do your worst. :P
September 24, 2014
Living with a progressively worsening illness that has now spanned 38 years (my entire adult life) has forced me to recognize some horrible truths that go against what I and most everyone have heard from religious authorities throughout our lives.
The key is that God, to be omnipotent, is responsible for everything...good and bad. And for me and most of the world, the bad is and always has been winning. It was a gradual and painful process of acceptance of the fact that it is God's will for me to live practically all my life somewhere between unhappiness and torture. When intense and/or prolonged suffering happens to YOU, you feel it more than if you hear about it happening to a stranger or even see it happen to a loved one. My lifetime love for my Creator, Who I was always taught was 100% good, has turned into bitterness, anger and EXTREME fear. I've tried so hard for so long to hang on to faith and hope, but I've had more than a mere human being can take and still maintain those things and any genuine love for God.
My extreme torment has also imparted to me much heightened awareness, empathy, and compassion for the sufferings of others. Paradoxically, it has made me a very self-absorbed individual that is of virtually no help to anyone. Friends and family have been neglected to a significant extent.
Thoreau said (paraphrase) that most of us lead lives of quiet desperation. Most of us struggle continually and have one or more horror stories to tell. And it's called "quiet" because no one wants to hear about it all. No one understands, and most are too busy to care. Watch the news anytime and weep. God is responsible for all the bad news reported. People don't suffer in a vacuum, and feeling the pain of others just makes your own pain harder to bear. Don't listen to anyone that tells you to feel blessed because look how bad things are for so-and-so. Instead, weep for so-and-so AND for yourself and give real help to so-and-so, if you are in a position to do so.
So why do roughly 3,000 people a day worldwide hurt so much so as to go against their strongest instinct (which is to survive) and take their own lives? Did God love Robin Williams? Apparently a good soul, Robin Williams was given by our God more than he could bear...plain and simple.
If, as the bible says, our days are numbered and God knows exactly WHEN we are going to die, then it logically follows that He knows exactly HOW we are going to die. So when did God come to this divine knowledge? Free will advocates must come up with a twisted explanation of that. Those of us who recognize that an omnipotent God and free will cannot co-exist must conclude that God planned all suicides at creation. Does any thinking individual really believe that Almighty God, the Creator of this universe and all its unfathomable intricacies, would just "let loose a big bang" and see what happens?!?
I have found that you can usually learn more about the bible and Christianity from atheists and agnostics than from Christians. Consider these words of non-Christian Bertrand Russell...
“The world, we are told, was created by a God who is both good and omnipotent. Before He created the world He foresaw all the pain and misery that it would contain; He is therefore responsible for all of it.
It is useless to argue that the pain in the world is due to sin.
In the first place, this is not true; it is not sin that causes rivers to overflow their banks or volcanoes to erupt. But even if it were true, it would make no difference.
If I were going to beget a child knowing that the child was going to be a homicidal maniac, I should be responsible for his crimes.
If God knew in advance the sins of which man would be guilty, He was clearly responsible for all the consequences of those sins when He decided to create man."
Russell also put it so succinctly well in the simple phrase, "If God is omnipotent, nothing outside His will can occur". C'mon free will advocates...THINK! God knows all that is occurring and has the final say-so in all things. All beings are under His dominion. Therefore everything that happens must necessarily be His will...even if you say He ALLOWS evil. If He allows anything, He surely CAUSED the circumstances by which it came about and would have known it was coming since creation, and He knew whether or not He would intervene. Read Isaiah 45:7. I find no place in scripture that states God "allows" or "permits" anything. God to be God directs everything. There are other such scriptures, but that one is easily read, remembered, and referenced.
Bible or no bible, considering my own horrors, pondering the horrors that happen to sentient beings all over the world every day, studying the horrors of history from time immemorial, and recognizing that evil runs the world leads to a most disturbing conclusion...that Whoever created the sentient beings of this world built a LOT of cruelty into the script He wrote for them to act out. Yes...all the world's a stage. No person or animal ever asked to be born as one of the actors in the Great Playwright's tragic drama. Solomon acknowledged that the day of one's death is better than the day of one's birth. And Solomon had it all before he concluded that "all" is vanity.
And the infinitely disturbing conclusion is that IF there is an eternal hell that countless billions of souls will fall into, God created those souls expressly for that destiny. Read Romans 9 and shudder. No wonder so many Christians are afraid to die and face the God Who makes so many for dishonor, wrath, and destruction (and possibly eternal torture after death).
Blame it on the devil? He doesn't have free will either. God created Satan and all his attributes. Do you think Almighty God got a nasty surprise when Satan and a third of the angels rebelled? Do you think His plan for mankind was foiled by the serpent's subsequent temptation of Adam and Eve to which they succumbed? No, it and Jesus' sacrifice was all a setup from the beginning. See Revelation 13:8 referencing the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Does God love us? If so, He must be miserable beyond comprehension in watching us continually suffer and die. And it must really hurt Him to throw most of His children into eternal torture. Now think...would an almighty God create a scenario that would cause Him incomprehensible misery as a parent would feel for his or her tormented children? Don't the scriptures say that God will do all His good pleasure? Therefore, one must consider the extremely disturbing possibility that God actually enjoys our pain. C S Lewis pondered God as the Cosmic Sadist in his book "A Grief Observed".
As one of countless possible examples of human horror on a mass scale, click on the video below. That 10-minute clip from the movie God On Trial (see the whole movie on YouTube if you like) summed up the conclusion of a group of Jews awaiting their cruel fate in a Nazi gas chamber.
I deeply wish I could find a way to recapture the love and trust for the God I once adored as the embodiment of goodness, sought as my ultimate Father and Friend, and endeavored to please as the Center of my universe. I wish I could be proven wrong in these terrible beliefs I have so painfully acquired and must now live with day after excruciating day. When I try to trust and imagine that God will look out for my best interests if I just trust Him fully, I can't help but consider all the countless souls God obviously does NOT look out for. Why should I be any more deserving of God's care than those who don't get it?? God hated Esau before he was born, as the scriptures state. How am I necessarily any better or deserving of a better lot than Esau?? I once saw a bumper sticker that said "26,000 children will die of starvation today...why should God answer YOUR prayers?"
Someone please prove me wrong...and please avoid the tired old Christian arguments; I've heard them all. It seems to me at this point that the only solution would be justified atheism. But I am not an atheist, because the evidence compels me to believe in a First Cause outside of space-time that wrote a script and created the universe and all its inhabitants to act it out. Another possible solution is for God to be less than omnipotent...superior but not supreme. But then how do we ultimately account for the origin of all things? If God is not the Master Craftsman and Lord over all of creation, then who is equal or superior to Him and ultimately responsible for at least some of the universe and its inhabitants?
An offer of prayer? It's the great cop-out answer from Christians. Easy and painless. Here's why you don't need to offer prayers for me...even those from sincere concern. Prayer has proven ineffective for me. Both my parents literally prayed for me every night since the onset of my illness in 1976. My dad, who was the kindest person I've ever known, died in 2004 from a cruel form of cancer with his prayers for my wellness going unanswered. My mom, who is now 90, still prays for me nightly. Other family members and friends have sent up prayers for me through the decades. Not long ago, a prominent radio personality asked her large audience to pray for me. And of course, I have prayed for myself. All this adds up to many thousands of prayers that have gone unanswered. Therefore, don't quote the passages on persistent prayer in Luke 11. And don't quote the promise in Philippians 4. I've claimed that promise and still don't have a minute's peace. I almost never pray anymore. I've asked over and over for help, wisdom, instruction, forgiveness, correction, and some kind of perceptible response of assurance…all to no avail.
Think about this. If even 10% of maybe a billion prayers that go up for some kind of betterment every day got answered by God, the state of the world and its inhabitants would soon improve. Word would spread, and more prayers would go up in turn to make the world still a better place. And maybe we would end up with a world of peace and joy. But the world is not getting better. And neither am I.
Heaven will be worth it all? What is really in the scriptures that indicates a select few will live happily ever after with our friends and loved ones in a utopia commonly called Heaven with all its magnificence and luxurious adornments? That is an idea that has sustained me though many tough times throughout my life. I certainly never fit into this world. But the idea of such an ethereal place has grown its share of doubts for me in recent times. Is it real or something the church world promises us to keep us coming back and filling their coffers?
My conclusion at this time is that God loves a few and hates the many. Most of the few seem naturally wicked. God called and blessed Moses, David, and Paul...all murderers. The worst part of this is that He created the many to hate. I hope that somehow I am wrong.
This is both a rant and a cry for help. I have cried tears of physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual torment virtually every day for the past two years. Some days I even scream in agony and hope my poor mother doesn't hear me. Sometimes she does. I have always been a good-natured individual that loves good and hates evil. I have always sought truth and excellence and (with a few exceptions) resisted doing evil. But I have learned that truth is ugly, and no good deed goes unpunished. Lord Byron said sorrow is knowledge, and those who know the most must mourn the deepest. Truth does not set you free; it binds you in chains.
For 40 years, starting when I was in high school, I have studied eschatology in the hope that Jesus would return to take me and all believers to Heaven. This year I gave up that hope. Countless Christians have clung to the "blessed hope" for nearly 2,000 years with all dying disappointed. Why would God give so many people false hope?
And finally, consider what God might have been thinking while the Bubonic Plague was torturing and killing 100 million Europeans in the 14th Century.
Thank you for reading my tome and offering any constructive feedback as you may be led.
God knows everything and he can do anything. It is purported by most religions especially Christianity that God loves us. If we are to take the meaning of love as love, why then are babies born daily with horrifying diseases and deformities?
Suppose I could create life and created a dozen creatures. I love these creatures - they are my creation. Now suppose further that one day, I create one of the creatures with an excruciating disease the effect of which kills the creature in it's infancy. Believing me (rightly) to be all-powerful, how do you suppose the creatures witnessing the event would view me subsequently?
God doesn't show his affection the way that we want him to. That doesn't mean he doesn't love us. Think about your kids when they say, "You don't love me!" Is it that you don't love them or that you just don't show your love for them the way they want you to? You don't give a child everything that he wants; that's not love. Well, God's the same way.
'God works in mysterious ways' is the theological equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and singing "la la la la la."
Does he love all the people who die of cancer? All the people who die in natural disasters? All the people who caught the bubonic plague?
The "problem of evil" as its classically argued seems to do more to perpetuate a complacent whining about the current state of our world rather than inspiring an active move against the oppression, injustice, and evil that plaques our neighbors. I think it works as far as the confines of its own logic to negate the presence of an supernatural being that is "in control" of the cosmos, but it assumes a completely docile, indifferent, and helpless human species that is utterly paralyzed when faced with its own depravity. Thus, the problem of evil serves no practical purpose save to tickle the intellectual fancies of those who get their rocks off sitting around in libraries and coffeeshops endlessly debating these issues while the world around them crumbles into oblivion.
On the other hand, I find it equally distressing when the bible or another religious text is the immediate recourse to establish the existence and/or omnibenevolence of God as if the bible were a counterpart to science or vice versa. The bible (or any other religious text) are human words inspired by the religious experience of human groups wrestling with their historical existence amid forces that were and still are completely outside of our control or knowledge (and always will be in one way or another.)
In the process of wrestling through their existence, these writers, minds, characters, and stories resonate with deep-seeded and (in many ways) universal expressions of what it means to be a human being in this world among other human beings among other living beings between the earth and the sky.
Religious belief in God or the gods, and the hope and prayer that this God or gods we believe in is/are in fact good, is a step "in faith" towards the ultimate desire that I, you, we, or they are good and can strive for peace with one another.
For a massive portion of the world's population, a external source of goodness offers a motivating impulse to aspire to the same in their own lives. A philosophical or scientific argument that intends to reject the metaphysical plane of ethical accountability has a very difficult time establishing a solid ethical ground anywhere else and leaves the responsibility of human individuals to each other fragile and broken setting the stage for horribly destructive consequences.
Hence, until the problem of evil, or science, or strict humanism find a solid ethical foundation that motivates action, we have what we have (though not rid of its own contradictions) in the belief or faith that God is good.
(Please let me know if you got another option that makes me care about what happens to me or you. I'd love to know.)
First, I don't know that an all-benevolent god is a core belief of Christianity. Neither the Nicene or apostle's creed states that god is benevolent. But that's not the question.
Why must it be that if a perfectly good god exists, then evil could not exist? I'm going to repeat the free will argument. Assuming god exists and is completely benevolent, then the greatest gift he could give us would be the freedom to determine our own lives. Otherwise we'd be nothing more than little robots with everything preprogrammed. Evil exists because some people choose to be evil. It's there as a reminder that we have free will.
Side: free will
Evil exists because any species seeks to gain the most benefit at the expense of others. This is called greed. Morals arise naturally when a species begins to comprehend and think about itself and the species as a whole. To answer your question, because an all powerful, all good, all loving and forgiving god would surely not create freewill that leads to evil. Furthermore, freewill cannot exist if god is all knowing.
The argument of free will does not justify physical evils in the world. Physical evils like earthquake, flood, disease. I do not get to choose whether or not I am the victim of disaster. It's simply the mechanics of this world. It does not follow that a loving god would create a planet that destroys us and causes us to suffer. Nothing in your free will argument will ever explain why god created viruses that feed on human flesh.
Another way of arriving at a logically consistent result is: A all-loving, all-powerful, all-knowing god exists. If he knows some evil is necessary for the best possible world, then any evil that exists must therefore be necessary. The evil that cannot exist is non-purposeful evil. Since humans are not omniscient, they cannot tell the difference between the types of evil. But logically, god is all-loving, all-powerful, all-knowing, and there is justified and necessary evil in the world.
The flaw in the logic is that you assume evil is not necessary. If god is all three qualities, since evil exists, it must be necessary. If it was unnecessary, his omnipotence would have eliminated it. So therefore, the evil that exists must be justified according to god's plan.
God is all-loving. He loves us more than anybody else on this earth can. God did not put sin and evil into this world, humans did. This world was perfect before God made us. Only when God created Adam and Eve did sin enter the world. The human race should have ended with Adam and Eve. They should have been punished for their rebellion in eating the apple they were told not to. They should have been cast into the lake of fire and human history should have ended. But thankfully, our god is a meciful god. He came up with a remarkable, astonishing, unthinkable alternative: He himself would bear the punsihment for his creation. God himself would enter the world and take on the suffering and death and judgement and judgement that his people incurred. he met the demands of divine justice by submitting to judgement as a criminal and a sinner even though he had never sinned. Put simpler, God sent his son to die for us. He loved us so much that he paid the punishment for our sins already so that we didn't have to.
Some of you might say that if he sent his son then he didnt actually pay for us himself. Well there is this thing called the Trinity.
1.) God the Father
2.) God the Son
3.) God the Holy Spirit
God is all of them. that is very hard to comprehend i know but look at it this way: My dad for example sells auto parts.
He is my father, he is his dad's son, and he is a salesmen. He isnt three different people he is the same person that has all of those roles.
Just as evil entered the world by an act of people, salvation was accomplished by an act of God. All you have to do is believe that God has already paid for our sins and accept Jesus Christ as your saviour to enter into the glorious, extravagent kingdom of heaven. Please if you are more interested in this subject discuss it with the pastor of your local church. I am a baptist so if you talk to a baptist preacher you will get the same opinion i have.
With respect, how did Jesus dying on the cross pay for our sins? If God set the rules, couldn't he have just forgiven us directly? If he decided that his own sacrifice to himself is necessary, is this truly a sacrifice? Is it even a sacrifice for an omnipotent eternal being to sacrifice a small part of himself for a moment of existence (relative to eternity)? The Triad still exists, does it not? Therefore, no sacrifice was made.
Side: Meaning of Sacrifice
If evil is necessary, that would mean doing evil would be God's work since it is necessary and by definition, needed. Even evil itself would be God's work. While a broad interpretation of God may allow this, a Christian interpretation of a loving God would not. In other words, "All Loving" is not compatible with evil. A spanking of a child may be an act of love but the child dying in a fire you set intentionally with the intent of harming the child can no way be called love.
Side: Evil not compatible with Love
People die of cancer, people die in fires because the world in which they live is doing something seriously wrong that is leading to its own annihilation.
A person dying in a fire isn't suppose to be a good thing. If it happens it's because it's suppose to make you feel uncomfortable and realize that the world is doing something seriously wrong. Plagues, earthquakes, tsunamis are there to intentionally make you feel uncomfortable and they happen to make the survivors change their ways. When people fail to change in response to these disasters, expect life to get much, much harder.
Guess what? Sin killed the perfectly sinless Jesus. One person's sin effects everyone else in his community. If the sinner himself isn't paying for the wages of his sin, someone has to. That's the lesson of Jesus.
While we have witnessed human suffering around the world that, in and of itself, does not equate to the idea that "God doesn't love us." Neither God or what is written in the Old Testament of the Bible promises us an easy ride here on earth. Indeed, when Eve partook of that apple in God's garden of Eden, she had no idea of God's will vis-a-vis his power to give and take in this world.
I have seen human suffering wherever I have visited in the world but I have also witnessed God's kindness to His people. How do we know that God created suffering or miracles or kindness? We don't, really. This is something that lies in our faith that God is in control of our destiny here on earth. If one believes God created the earth and everything in it then see the miracles of nature. They are astounding in their beauty and their complexities. See the cures our medical geniuses have provided us throughout the centuries. His gifts are all around us and yet all we see are the injustices perpetrated on mankind.
I think we don't understand human suffering as a tool by which to make things right. God has given us choices since that day in Eden and we cannot blame Him for all the wrong we see. There is a book available that is entitled "When Bad Things Happen to Good People" written by Harold S. Kuschner that makes much sense out of this chaotic world. Another series, if you really wish to test your faith and beliefs, is entitled "Conversations With God: An Uncommon Dialogue" written by Neale Donald Walsch that was so broad it was written in three volumes. They were among the most fascinating books I've ever studied.
I know that God loves all of us for I have seen much to point me in that direction through the years. I do, however, understand your and anyone's questioning of this possibility.
Side: Yes I know that He does love us
What has the state of the world come to!? You poor people. You are lost, and I will pray for you. Your alllowing evil into your life. I'm sorry. God sent his ONLY SON to DIE for US on a WOODEN CROSS that WHO SO EVER BELIEVES in HIM shall NOT PERISH, but have EVERLASTING LIFE! What is wrong with you????
You are the sad one. You are a slave to religion. I will not bow down to some high and mighty being who is so high in the clouds he refuses to help. If a god exists, he is uncaring and distant. This is called deism, and makes more sense. You have been so brainwashed that you cannot think outside your box. You only think someone heres your prayers, that someone talks back to you. It is your imagination. Get over it.
depends really. we really don't know what god is yet (if it even exists). if it is a conscience god, i would like to thank it for giving me free will and for actually making life worth living. what's the point in life if nothing happens and you don't have to do anything to get what you want... there is no point.
if an all powerful creator is giving me free will, i'd have to say he really does love me (for not turning me into his slave).
Wrong, God doesn't love any of us. The apostle Billy Bob tells me that, "God really hated the world, so he gave his only daughter, who was a right little bugger, that whosoever would have a bit of rumpy pumpy with her should not be happy, but have everlasting torment" (Terry 13:37).
This is a quote written down in my notebook on my desk. It has just as much validity as your quote, though.
That's a very good point sonerbalon but I would add that many people don't trust or have faith in God.
I have a very good friend who lost his nephew at the age of 13. The boy had been ill all of his life. His father could never understand why John was so at peace with himself and could accept his fate so easily. John would tell his father things that his dad just couldn't understand. Hid Dad became angrier by the day when they finally knew that John was about to leave them. After he died, his father grieved for many months and then one day he called my friend, his brother, and told him that he had been thinking about all the things John had told him while he was still alive. He knew, at long last why John's mission here on earth was finished and why God gave John to them to love. John's dad thought that he had no joy, no peace, no understanding and no place to go after his only son died. John had taught his father how to care about others and think about his time here on earth. His dad had to go over to the hospital to pick up some paper-work that had been left there for him and the day he did, he saw a boy about the same age as John. The boy was struggling with his own pending death and his heart told him to reach out to this teen. He told the boy the story of his son and spoke with him as John once did with his dad. The two became fast friends and visited each other often when the boy came home from the hospital. This went on for months until the day the boy made his last visit to the hospital as a patient. Suddenly they both knew why they were there. One was there to teach and the other to learn. God provided them each the appropriate avenue down which to travel.
Side: The Lessons of Life and Death
1. If a perfectly good god exists, then he would want there to be no evil in the world.
2. God is all powerful, so has the power to completely eradicate evil.
2. There is evil in the world.
3. Therefore, a perfectly good god does not exist.
Result: God doesn't love us.
Side: the inconsistent triad
1. This world leads to another world (hereafter).
2. The outcome of tests in this world results in reward or punishment later.
3. Tests necessitates putting man under hardship to see his reaction.
4. This small hardship leads to eternal pleasure if he succeeds in this test
Still God Loves Us.
1) He DOESN'T want there to be evil in the world. Have you read the Bible?
2) Yes, He does, but He wants mankind to want to completely eradicate evil and do it
by following His ways. By glorifying Him and doing it for Him and through Him,
He is the eradicator of it.
3) Yes, there is evil in the world. Why is that? Because MAN refused to let go of his
pride and thought he knew best, instead of following God's ways.
God loves us plenty!! He wouldn't have given us His word and His sacrificial son,
Jesus, to pay mankind's sin debt if He didn't. And that was a HUGE, LOVING sacrifice.
I hate God. He is a lazy, uncaring ass that is too high and mighty to come help. Here is my argument.
1. God caused big bang, creates universe
2. God supposedly did once destroy the world
3. God never gets involved, only sends prophets who promise divine judgement and help
God does not care for us. We are like lab rats in his experiment. Therefore he does not love us
He loves us, we just dont love him.
Do you think God would permit us to be living at this point. If he hated us, he couldve destroyed humanity for its wicked ways, but he didnt. he loves us so much that to this point he is still giving us the opportunity to turn from our sinful ways he even sent jesus to die for us, so that we would be forgiven of our sins. But what good is love, when the someone doesnt want to open up to it.
I have two issues with the Problem of Evil Argument.
One, define evil without good. Try. I dare you.
Evil and Good cannot be defined without each other. If one cannot exist without the other, than do either really exist? If Good and Evil are inseparable, how can you say that a Good God would cause no evil?
Two, At the most, this argument strips away the characteristics of God. This argument doesn't Strip away God, but rather the Concepts associated with God by Organized Religion.
I offer an alternate theory for those who may dislike my argument, for it being to much based on concepts and language. If "God" is formed from everything in the universe, forever, if "God" is not centrally conscious, then all of the parts of "God" may not be moving towards the same end. And, if the parts of the whole do not move towards the same end, then disagreement and "evil" are most certainly likely.
it is not rightful to tell that god doesn't love us....how can you say that god doesn't love us.... the problems that we are encountering is just a test to us. this will measure our faith for him.... besides, he never give trials if he knows that we can't do that. the reason of our failure is that we never think that we could overcome such hindrances, such trials that is given to us. think of it. How many times you experience failure in life. and what's the reason of such failure.... for sure it is because you lack of confidence... you lack faith in god....
There are many solutions to the problem of evil. One solution is that God is not all-powerful. This makes the world a place of duality, where the devil and God reign opposing kingdoms and cannot stop eachother. I don't agree with this argument, but this is one solution to it. The argument I tend to side with is the argument for the best of both possible worlds. We can live in a possibility of two different worlds. The first world is full of people who have no free will. Because of this, there is no evil in the world. These "slaves" cannot choose to murder, steal, lie, cheat, or sin. They cannot choose to love, live life, or relax to the fullest either, though. The other world is full of people who have free will. Therefore, they use this free will to do what they wish. Some people use it like Charles Manson or the BTK killer. Others use their free will like Ghandi or Mother Theresa. It all depends on which world you would rather live in: a free world with evil or a good world without choice.
We are down behind enemy lines.
Scratch fell with a third of the heavenly host.
For whatever reason, "God," has chosen for this stage play to be consummated through the corridors of time with humans playing host to demons, to Holy Spirit.
It's a lousy deal, the hands dealt down here, to so many who have received them.
You can lose decades doing the, "right thing."
Stinkers can cr-p all over good people and seeming fly free to have enjoyable lives.
It IS a war. Michael, angel, in going to see one of God's prophets, was far from punctual and on time. Rather, he offered that his delay was the result of being opposed by the Prince Of Persia. A distinct reference to a powerful fallen angel that had come against him.
Satan means Opposer. Literally.
He is called the prince of this world.
And that he stands judged as such.
And people, it is going to get much worse, and in our time.
Satan will wage war against the Saints and overcome them.
It is a crummy picture.
The promises from Holy Spirit, in response to prayer, usually run along much the same lines, being nearly always a promise for the future.
Which does precious little in the suffering, which as stated previously, can go on for decades.
Sometimes those promises are especially disappointing when made for near future and they Just Don't Come Through.
Is God really that compromised with The Fall?
It is bleak, to be sure, for all engaged down here on the ground.
God IS real. I know through experience, not just faith.
But I sure have had my bit-h sessions with the lousy care. As we are told to test God, I have, and either a negligent or weak father has been the result.
Something is terribly wrong, and it not just with us down here on the ground.
There is a magnificent rift in the celestial regions which HAS seemingly compromised God's short term abilities, though we are assured that ultimately all will be restored in full.
I'm tired of all this crud.
I'm for getting this show on the road.
Bring it down, to a close, and get on with it sooner rather than later.
I would like to believe that God really exist. It would be a great feeling that you know that there is a divine being who's watching over you. Christianity and his teaching has been there for thousands of years. I think it wouldn't last all these years it it was something baseless. God gave us free will for us to choose because its already in our nature to decide is something is wrong or right.
God does love us...we are like his children he created us he gave us life and people are saying he doesn't love us... it's like saying your mum whom gave you life and loves you more then you will ever know hates you and doesn't love you and infact doesn't exist...it's satan who doesn't love us
What does human suffering in the world have to do with God loving us or not? He gave us free will and we use it, much to our chagrin at times. Someone asked if he loved all the people taken by the tsunami and I can say he did. God doesn't arrange our lives or our deaths and then sit and gloat over it. God does love us because every day of our lives we have another opportunity to do His will and abide by His commandments. There is a reason people suffer and die on this earth. Has it ever occurred to you that suffering also causes awakening of sorts for others? That is a good thing that something positive can come our of tragedy if we simply pause to listen to what is being told to us. Yes, God loves us, each and every one of us in His way not yours or ours.
It is truly ridiculous to say that "God doesnt love us". I believe that it's the vice versa. Its we, human, that dont respect God. We destroy the nature God gave us, we torture our flesh by piercing ears, we lie,hit,and sometimes kill people. All the painful situations we go through is not outcome of "GOd doesnt love us" but it's what we deserve. After all, we called for it. We had it coming.
God is just an ideal...all humans love to believe in something...
In fact, people need to believe in something, follow a set of rules that is laid for them, so that they can go on with their lives happily and be reassured that they can get into paradise after they are dead, and not just left rotting in the ground. At least they can console themselves that they still exist in some form or another.
Besides, if there's a God, what makes you think he doesn't love us? Epidemics and natural disasters are part of nature. I may sound selfish at this point in time, but if there are no such disasters, there would be overpopulation and everyone will just die due to lack of space and food.
god/goddess/universe or whatever you believe in created us........as well as the pain and suffering that exists along side happieness and peace, wether we like it or not pain is vital and important without it we would all be happy drones walking around without much to us, from pain comes complexity depth beauty i am not saying that the amount of pain and unfairness in the world is fair or right but some pain is nessasairy and god did not burden us with it becuse god/goddess/universe or whatever you believe. does not love us, every good feeling and experience we have is gods doing to. i just don't think it is fair to say we know a fraction of what god feels for us, at the very least god gave us at least as much good as bad. now it is in the hands of the people to keep the balance
god loves us god gave us puppys and ice cream and cheese cake and ice cream and french fries and books and water and fire and air and earth and family and everything good as well as bad it is not gods fault we tipped the balence to our disadvantige god gave us everything we love and everything we hate
yes god loves us we need suffering because imagine what the world would be without it imagine the lack of depth and appreciation just ... think about this saying and apply it to the situation
''just when the cattipillar thought the world was over it became a beautiful butterfly'' in crisis we find eachother we come together we take a new look at life
god has reasons for doing what god does if god killed half the people on earth right now not only will it be a huge tragity but it may have saved the planet we don't know im not saying i think the things that happen are okay im just saying maby there is a grand plann and a good reason for the things that happen
i think you better go and read "CONVERSATION WITH GOD"
its a good book for people who think god is mean and makes us suffer.
you knw we are the reasons for our sufferings.
do good posses good.
god luvs its every creation and why not.
if we create a thing then we would luv that thing more than anything and i think you can realize that in your own life.
Laugh out loud I died on this one. Yes, God does love all of his children. Evil is here on earth to tempt us y? so God knows who is strong enough to resist and gain the grace of his love/glory. The tsunamis? the tornadoes? hurricanes? hah! what do you expect from a father who's children disobey him CONSTANTLY? He gives us very few rules but in today's society its those few rules that "Humans" choose to break CONSTANTLY. for those of you who says no he does not love us. im sorry. for why? id have to be high to explain deeper honestly. but i pray that ya'll see the grace of God and see that it is good.
God ALWAYS loves us.If He did not love us, he would not send his only begotten son to this world and would not sacrifice his loving son to save us from sins.We will not be living here anymore if God does not love us.God had created this beautiful world for us and He will love us forever.
You exist. You are an inhabitant of God's world. God's world is imperfect. But so are all of us. Has it ever occurred to you that maybe God loves the idea of life so much that, even though he can't do everything, that even though some things are impossible for him ( ain't it obvious at this point? ) he still wants the world to exist?
The world isn't perfect. And sometimes we do really dumb things that threaten life in general and the planet ( you think a world with nukes is a good idea? . . . what about global warming? ) Sometimes selfish, destructive people have to be punished ( you believe we should punish criminals, don't you? ).
Don't expect perfection ( most "perfect" people are unhappy anway ) and you'll be alright.
God loves us. How do I know? Because even though we humans are incredibly incompetent, and often get on each other's nerves, God would rather have a desperate little universe with life than pure, utter darkness.
Most people on this planet are like God in this respect. Even though life doesn't offer us everything we want, we tolerate it and try our darn best to fix it!
You love life. You believe we should punish criminals. You love your friends and your family. So does God.
I was lost in the Darkest parts of my own wicked ways, spiraling down a path of destruction leading me away from His Almighty ways, and all the while im going down ONLY ONE, He could save me. No matter how far i looked on this lowly planet, i never once found a soul who could manage, to show me the love that i truly needed, because on this planet aint nothing but hate and contempt have been breeded. the lowly snake slithering as he goes through the towns of man looking for lowly lowly souls, to feed on so that it could plant it's evil seeds, and so that throughout the generations nothing but evil and hate we could recieve, but those where the ways of the past, my brothers and sisters. the devil had a hold of us and he managed through our parents, down through the generations His ways have been lost, and because of the us, the devil has turned and tossed, We can All be saved, all we need is Thanksgiving, to the One who Above, for All of His Givings. The devils trying to stop me right now as i speak, but Faithful to the Lord and willit He, that i may be meek. Because it is He not i that gives you this message but it is The One that we All should seek. i know that it is hard to find Rest, as we all go through this test some call a game, every single last one of us, probably, training to gain and retain our fame. But That is not what this life is about, i have a Strong feeling that we are All getting our Water from the wrong wrong spout. because thats all the devil has for us is a little bit, of pleasure, then comes the pain. steady feeding our bodies what i see now Is Insane. because ya'll hafto see that we are all carnally minded, and This is the reason The LORD, us he has blinded, binding, ourselves to our own flesh, so that eventually we would All fail this Test. but know that The Lord, He loves us, and wishes nothing but the best, and all He wants is for us to Love Him all the while through this Test. some wonder why we see nadoes and quakes, He needs ya'll to know that its Ya'lls souls that He is trying to shake. and bake if you will, so the devil may not have his fill, to letchya'll know that there is NONE like that ALMIGHTY AND ALL POWERFULL ONE. i say full because Hes filled with Love, like None that we have seen on this lowly earth, but now that i have SEEN, my Eyes have been UnBlinded, and now it is He, He who signs this, letter so maybe that some of Ya'll could listen, and Maybe get the Message that He is trying to dish, out of His spout, so that ya'll might be fed, with all of His Love, His Water, And His Bread. Don't for a second think any of Ya'll are living, All of ya'll are dead and for the devil are you "living" as i sit here and do this all of the "dome" just know that it is Not me and that this is His tomb. He is singing through me in these words and this song, so that maybe one day we All can be free all the day long, and ya'll can say its cheesy if ya'll want, but just know the devil in you he does flaunt x) i had to stop and show ya'll how i felt about that one, cuz its the truth, and right now i have a Strong feeling He is swinging harder than that brother Babe Ruth, or ballin harder than micheal jordan, and in this song he Is Playing His Accordian. Ya'll just need to know that He is our Guardian, and right now im flying Higher than any single air jordan, because my love i gave to Him more than any of Ya'll so i guess i can say more than them. But dont getit twizted like boi's if ya'll know, that me and moreover Him, have a lot to show. we are all brothers and sisters, but i should call us the missers, because we all fail to see the smaller things in this world, without even thinking twice, what truly brings a man alot of happiness or to see the pain that ALOT of us have in us. i know that we are all hurting on the inside, and for ya'll who say we dont, Boi, you know that is a lie, because only with Him and not that evil leech from down south, can we truly fly. higher than the highest of trees or the tallest of mountains, But in Him we Have to trust, so that We may Drink From The One and Only True fountain, only because of Him can i do this for days, and its Because i gave Him my love, thanksgiving, and praise. so now that i have seen what it is truly to be Man, Men of God, all these hater out there who bout to say something aint nuthing more than sod. sorry if it dont make sense, just know that me and Him the latter first, We are just trying to give His children, ya'll some mother lovin cents. forgive me if i pause for no longer am i a vulgar man life is just a beach, and Now, He is playing in the sand, hopefully in the minds of the young, the daughters and sons, i have my holster, and now the Lord is my Gun, Shining Brighter, than a million suns, times two, because His love is True, actually make that twenty twenty, because He is aplenty, in me in you and All, i just hope that ya'll can hear His call, so that maybe that ya'll may not fall, into the Pit, but right now i can say the devil is probably having a fit, of anxiety cuz he is losing his "children" just know that we are God's and with me He has been pilfering, in my mind day and night, as i have been in my room trying to stay out of sight, of ya'll because all it seems like to me, that nothing to ya'll it would please, more, than to see one of your own fellow brother get shot and fall. when i look around me i dont see any real love, this evil surrounds me, but Now i DO NOT CARE, because the Lord, THE LORD, HE has found me. so now ya'll cannot touch, because with His love, im about to bust. with loving Faith and Trust, i put in Him, so that i can be led away from this life of sin, and Now that i have His Trust, my brotha's and sista's, not just the black ones, comeon now, that just is not a must, there is no such thing man, all that is, is nothing more than an evil thought, brought up in vain, so that maybe a man's soul, that leech, can be bought. Quit being evil, for it is Love, that should be sought, out so once again we may be fed from His Spout, for only He can give us what we need so that in the end we may succeed. my brothers and sisters all we need to do is Believe, and then, Anything, together, WE CAN ACHIEVE. this is an ode to ya'll so in hopes once again that ya'll may hear The Call, and will not fall, so one day me, ya'll, and The Almighty,Perfect, like a prefect without the er, Omnipotent, and Patient ONE, that together we May All Ball. and they keep telling me to stop, but i just cant my brothers me and Him are headed to the top, and right now i got The Heart Of A Lion, King, and pray tell me my brothers and sisters who are reading, what single Beast can stop that king? of the jungle we are running but with Him we can be free. out into the open pasture we all can roam, just know this is not me, and that this is His Tomb. its wierd how they're spelled alike but do not rhyme, im talking bout bomb my brothers, and its One of a Kind. in the Hopes that this petty rhyme, can help lead the black sheep, away from the Blind, being themselves, for who? tell me can save them from that? if you dont answer right then your a part of this blight that runs rampant through the streets, evil im talking about and all it wants to do is eat, your souls because it is angry at the Living God, hahahaha for it is nothing more than a sod, on His Cleat as He is Running, Hoping that some of these Words, hit you right in the stomach, and make you sick, but not you, im talking about the evil you, for we are all children of God, but we have made ourselves nothing more than a sod =( i say with a heavy heart, because all this time we have been playing the devil, his part, but with Him it is nothing but a fart, because He Forgives, and Only Through Him may we EVER, get the chance to Live, and im not talking about on the earth, im talking about another, and maybe one day you can see and i can Truly call you my Brother, for there is Life in Death, but it is only gained through this life which is a test, just know that when we die, if you have lived righteously, on that day you will Fly, for the Lord will Breathe His Breath in you when you die and like i said before You Will Fly, but not if you keep eating from the devil's table, for you can only eat from one, and i hope its Not the devil's table. for if we Eat from Him, we can All go back into His Stable, and only in doing that can we Ever truly be stable, only only if, we are eating from, The Living God's Table. and for ya'll who are sitting at your computers steadily dissin Him, i pray for you, because it you are missin, Him and the bigger picture, just know right now im taking a Big Gulp From His Ultimate Pitcher, not one from the MLB, and if you are listening then i pray that you sea, i mean see, but with Him we can fly over the one before, and higher than mike, dunk it in, right for a score, but not for 2 for it is for 3, because He is Holy in me, but atm holy in you, because you missing some parts, we all need to change, so that we may play His Part, that He intended from the Beginning, because only With Him can we ever be winning, but hahahaha not as long as we are sinning. for that is not the way that we was meant to walk, With Him we was mean to Walk and Talk. once again i say this way i, used to, but we choose to live, is insane in the membrane, but He is using me as His Template, lol or templar whichever you prefer, just know that He is Prefect, ha just without the errrr. as i sit here steadily dissin em i mean the demons in the minds of the children of the One and Only, God Who Is Kind, i hope that they depart, so we can All gaze upon The Divine, not like wine or watch, i aint lil wayne, just know that i feel like im the only one who is sane. because i AM NOT PERFECT, do not get the wrong message for that would hurt me, only He is, and He just wants some love from His Kids, but for some odd reason... we still choose to do the evil leeches bids, for i feel he has sucked to much from us, all of our blood, i mean soul, it has tucked from us, and right now He is aiming at it with a Big Ol' Blunderbuss. to shoot it and unleech it, from His Children's Soul's so one day maybe we can gaze upon, That Wonderful City Of Gold, and dont letit peak your in ter ests, for if you do your not getting whats bests, from this test that He has beset, for our minds to ponder and think on, maybe in some of the hearts out there this message is shining, for He is a Beacon of Light, to shine out all the evils, and end this ugly, hateful blight, that courses through our vains, that nasty garbage that makes us feel insane, because no one is living right, and for That NONE is sane. you can talk and sit there and chatter, but i pray and hope that none get fatter, and im not talking because of mcdonalds, im talking about your ego and pride, because We Alll NEED to push that aside, all we seem to do is breed hate and contempt, sitting there looking for another hurt sould to feed on, thinking it makes us content, but just know NOW people, lolol all your doing is letting the devil be your PIMP! ha ha ha i think that really funny, because in the words of man that just makes ya'll some ho's, and please forgive my trespasses my sisters and brothers, for my vulgar words, because i Did Not mean to hurt, He's just trying to keep our faces from being rubbed in the dirt. but it really shouldnt matter because we are mud, and from One we all came, so can i not call ya'll blood??? nah im not talking about them two glock shotta's, im talking bout from The One Who Has Always Got Us, not us as in the navy, i mean us as in the ones who might sit on that bus, the one going to school and to the ones who drool in class, and all of us who needs a kick in the, pause, ya'll know what i mean, im just sitting here trying not be obscene, all im trying to do is get the bigger picture, through ya'll minds so that maybe one day, we can All WALK IN THE LORDS WAY. forgive me if i make any of ya'll mad, if i do know that i Am sad, but how about ya'll just go to the store and go and grab on of them happy hefty bags, you know i meant glad if you didnt you are simple, and forgive me as i sit here and bust this pimple, lol sorry that was nasty just know that i didnt, and know that we are all fake, and its time for some rhino plasty, or however its spelled im just hoping some hearts will melt, like the plastic we are, and become melded into flesh, as i sit here and type in this Soul Food test, for if ya'll can't hear me then your hearts are so cold, forgive me as i trespass, because, uhm, i Am not trying to be bold, im just tryna through some fia atcha hearts, in the hopes that you may leave the Dark, ness not loch just in case thats watchu thought, all you gotta do is leave your flesh behind, and know that He is the one who Should Be Sought, out so we can drank From His Spout, cuz the Lord Knows, man it has been a drought. we are all so thirsty, but in order to be filled its The Lord who must come firsty x) just know that me and Him are going Stooopid, and for those who are real maaan i thoughtchu knew it. and if you dont i pray you haven't already blew it, up i mean your ego, like a balloon, just know right now i feel like taz boi, yup them looney toones, or tunes whichever you prefer, just know that He is Prefect, just without the err. and i say pre because He was always here, yes before you and me, but with Him i wanna letchu know that we can all be as pure, and as white as the snow, just like powder we can all be melted, i mean melded into the beings we were meant to be, so one day we may fly free as a dove, Right over the sea, so that we all can reach New Jerusalem, yup just right where we was all meant to be, that is the Golden City for those who did not, know, im just hoping that one day we can All be as pure as the snow, because the evil has taunted and flaunted and given us a show, to peak i mean perk up our ears and it, that leech i mean, gave us nothing but fears, fears of ourselves and one another, fears from our sisters and daughter, Father, and brothers, but we have a right to Fear the Living God, because to Him we have all become a sod, He is sorrowful and cries as we follow, the evil being, who was never meant to be followed, and i felt His pain at one point in time, yes i Am talking About the Divine, we both cried together, in my room, because of the little things we miss, something just as small as, a heartfelt kiss... for it is the little things that bring us the greatest joy, not some diamond chain, or a, wind up toy, the biggest thing of all that should, is His Love, should bring us the Greatest joy, in the world, for thats all it is man just cars and noise, all the long going our way, Missing the sweetest noise, zes ya'll know what i mean, im talking about the One who is Never obscene, for He is Just And Right, in each and every single way, and for our sins my borhters and sisters, we have to pay, but do not fret for it is never to late, I think we all need to call upon The Divine, and we should All go on a date, do not worry for on this date there is no rape, or murder, or hate, for that is of the devil, and Your Soul it will take, there is no worries once you follow Him, we should all be hand in hand as we walk down this path, called, life Never having to worry about no pain or strife, or for a bigger picture His Wrath, but ONLY IF WE DRINK FROM HIS PITCHER. for The All Powerful and Righteous Wrath, only comes when you stray from His Path, it is there to show us our wrongs...can you feel His Soul as i sit here and Sing His song? and with Him i will NEVER fall, because with my Brother, I will always Hear His Call. i say we but it is Him, who say these words to in the hopes, that those who have an Ear to listen may never Fall, into the Pit, all you have to do is have Faith, Follow The Ten, Believe, and never EVER Quit, for in order to gain His All Perfect and Good Graces, we have to eliminate ALL the Hate and evil, in all sorts of places, i have a feeling this song was wrote long before, just in His mind and now in mine, and i sing His song in the Hopes, that you follow Him and not any of these "popes" for no hope lies in them, lol and if you truly think aboutit that actually rhymed, just know that im thinking of Him, foremost, but ya'll too as i steadily write This Rhyme, it comes from above yup, Straight From the Divine, in the Hopes that one day ya'll can SEE, exactly it was that we was missing, so we can All fly over the sea. Man this thing is long but i should Say God, because this is His Rhyme, and not from a sod, like me or you, if you real you can feel its True, as His Sword aims at the hearts of His good, flying Straight and Through, lol i mean True, but them if you can follow my friend, all we gotta do is sing Praises and Thanksgiving to Him, until the very end, and give Him all of our love, Because WITHOUT HIM, ha There WOULD BE NO LOVE, all there would be is pain and suffering, and i hope that the ones who are, suffer, i mean acating, Might actually stop and take the time to sit there and be debating, against the devil of course, cuz all it wants to do is, lead us, right, or left, but straight off our course. Lord Please Forgive me, if i am being coarse just know that i am your back, and You Are My Horse, lol ya'll might think He's heavy but He's really not, and i Love Him till Death, i mean Life, cuz i have found It, but back to the point, because i HE HAS TAUGHT, never went to church or none of that, maybe when i was younger but none of that, for our minds our are churches, ha gotit backwards but i feel as tall as the burches, talking bout them trees man im over the seas man, just know i cant, wait, My Father, until You Kick Over My Can Man x) aw man i thoughit was funny, because he's One Cool Dude, and i am His, Bunny, i mean Collie, and know that as i, i mean He, but as i bark, that i have a Strong feeling, that i am playing my Part, or His i prefer the latter but the choice is yurs, because it is His Puzzle, and i am the last part, i cant be for certain because the Knowledge is His, but im just trying to bring His Black Sheep back, you know i mean His KIDS, He thoughtit was funny, But ya'll best Believe that He NOR i the first comes first, but neither one of us is No, pause, Dummy, lol but if you choose you can beat and bite, whatever you do just know it is out of spite, and i dont capitilize because its an evil word, just know me and HIM, are trying to end this wrongful blight, and saying these words i Hope that maybe, just maybe some can be given the Sight, that HE intended us to have, right, from Go, talking bout monopoly,lol but no no more, from the start maaaan all HE ever wanted was us to give our heart, which is HIS, because He gave to us, All that is HIS, HE just Wanted someone to talk to man, thats why HE made HIS Kids, HE was all alone, and then HE built, a Beautiful place for us, and HIM, to walk and talk all the while, just laughing and talking, seeing eachother smile =) because HE is our FATHER, He's not as mean ha as ya'll would believe, just know that HE TRULY IS ONE BENEVOLENT KING. lol ha ha i think this is funny, He knows what im talking about, cuz this is all of the top of the dome with barely a second to pause, Just Know the THE LION KING, Has Opened HIS Claws, Blessed be the children who took the time to listen, to the message that a, and The King is steadily dishin, i say a because i am one too, but know that im a servant, and from a Seed i did Grew, i dont care if it makes no sense to ya'll because i have heard the Lords Call, and they, they know who they are, are always listening, and as He types, through, me i have a feeling they are about to call, Prayer is the Best Wireless Connection X) aint no service down here got that type of Connection, i just hope that i get to see some of ya'll at that intersection, i mean Crossroads, bone thugz n harmony, they said it first, man thats the song man and if you feel their soul, then maybe you should hurt, because those bois on the streets back in the day, all they was doing was searching for some Peace, but in the streets, the oppressors, following the devil, have no love for us in the slums, just know that we All have a Holster and God Is our Gun, we dont need no metal, for The Lord our issues HE will settle, all you gotta do is Have some Faith, saying this in hope that some dont see any wraiths, talking demons people come now and please listen, as the Lord spits his song and these Words HE is dishin, out yup you getting it word of mouf, lol or mouth whichever you prefer just DONT follow that lowly snake, yup the one down south, it might try and offer pleasure and happiness butits all fake, HA what do ya'll expect from a lowly snake? remeber eve as she sat under that tree? sitting there thinking and feeling the breeze? the snake spoke in her Ear temptation it did bring, and after teel me WHO did she fear? she had a split second of happiness and thats all it can give, and after that she felt the WRATH which is ONLY HIS, lol i hope that ya'll see, the way we live people, it just wasn't meant to be, i have a feeling that there all up there laughing, with, not at me as i type out His message, and i pray ALMIGHTY FATHER, THE ONES WHO HAVE AN EAR TO LISTEN PLEASE FATHER PLEASE LET THE HEAR. and the ones who dont i pray you dont hit him hard, maybe just a little tap, just like Babe Ruth, on that baseball card x) Peace be with you my sisters and brothers, just know that HIS LOVE IS LIKE NO OTHER, GOD BLESS ALL WHO FINISHED, AND I PRAY YOUR SOULS NEVER, DIMINISH. ONE HEART IS ALL, AND WITH THAT HEART WE CAN NEVER FALL, lol i said i was finished, but i dont think HE is as you can tell this words are not mine, THEY COME FROM THE UPPER BEING, yup THE DIVINE!!! i think im going to cut Him short and please Forgive me, because i know HE could go all day, BECAUSE I CAN FEEL HIM IN ME.