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Debate Info

182
195
He died to save you from Hell. I don't believe it.
Debate Score:377
Arguments:319
Total Votes:546
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Argument Ratio

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 He died to save you from Hell. (148)
 
 I don't believe it. (104)

Debate Creator

Saintnow(3684) pic



God loves you.

God wants you to be with Him in heaven forever, so He took on a body as the Son of God and paid for your sins with His own blood so you don't have to pay with your life in Hell.  You will be justfied for eternal life if you agree with God as to His right to punish sin after He took the punishment on Himself and death could not hold Him in the ground; if you will repent of your sin and believe Jesus is risen from the dead and is God and receive Him personally as your Savior, God will give you eternal life...Jesus wil live in you by His Holy Spirit makign you a child of God.

Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.  God loves you and does not want you to be lost forever; He loves you so much He will let you be lost forever if that is what you want to be...even though you broke His heart so much that He died for you.

He died to save you from Hell.

Side Score: 182
VS.

I don't believe it.

Side Score: 195
2 points

This debate is an invitation for people to explain why they believe God does not love them, and a challenge for me to convince them that He does indeed love them. If you are unwilling to explain why you believe God does not love you or why you believe He did not die for you to save you from Hell, please watch and read and avoid personal attacks. For the most part, those taking the opposing side seem to be focusing on anything other than supporting the idea that God does not love them and He did not die to save them from Hell. I'm trying to stay on topic here, I'm sorry if anybody feels abrased by the text....but it is Biblical, the Bible being God's loveletter to mankind. God loves you so much that He died in your place to save you from Hell. Please engage in the debate if you do not believe the supporting position and you wish to oppose it.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
LilMisfit(6) Disputed Banned
4 points

"This debate is an invitation for people to explain why they believe God does not love them.."

Yet when we do explain why we don't believe your god does not love us you just ban us.

"and a challenge for me to convince them that He does indeed love them."

http://i.imgur.com/FmGcYVL.gif

Side: I don't believe it.
LilMisfit(6) Clarified Banned
2 points

"This debate is an invitation for people to explain why they believe God does not love them.."

Correction: Yet when we do explain why we don't believe your god loves us, you just ban us.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Ok, I can't get you to see that God loves you. You believe God does not love you. Ok, Why should I argue with you? I told you the truth, you don't want to believe it, there's really nothing more you need to say so banning you helps to relieve you of your burden in which you feel you have to keep saying you don't believe God loves you. You said it already, you feel God does not love you.

I banned you for trying to change the subject into whining about me, criticizing me, refusing to spell God's name properly which is disrupting as it is offensive. So you are banned and probably will be banned from any of my discussions because of your attitude.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
GenericName(3429) Disputed Banned
2 points

You call for people to avoid personal attacks, while calling other people small minded. Don't you see this as hypocritical?

Side: I don't believe it.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
2 points

can you copy and paste the thing you are accusing me of? As I recall, I said "if". Please correct me "if" I am wrong, and "if" you are not interested in debating the topic and explaining why you believe God does not love you, why don't you take your personal attack calling me a hypocrite somewhere else? What are you trying to do here? Are you trying to prove that you are incapable of debating this topic? If that is your motive, I think you are doing a good job.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.

It a shame to see so many people on this forum personal attacks. I've encountered that my first day. Lol.

Side: I don't believe it.
1 point

You know what would happen if you were standing in my house harassing me like this, accusing me of saying things I did not say by taking three or four words out of a long sentence and twisting the meaning in a way to try to accuse me of wrongdoing? You would either immediately turn and leave or you would get thrown out and probably at least a few bruises.

Side: I don't believe it.
skyfish(276) Disputed Banned
1 point

one cannot support a "negative" such as disbelief in a debate.

.

what you are calling for is a logical impossibility.

.

zombie jesus not withstanding.

Side: I don't believe it.
Saintnow(3684) Clarified
2 points

Apparently you believe there is no love of God for you. I don't know what point you are trying to make, but if you cannot explain your reasoning for why you believe God does not love you, then you don't have anything to say. I guess you are saying you believe there is no God, but your big words twist so much it's hard to tell what you are trying to say. Assuming you believe there is no God and therefore you believe it is not possible for you to be loved by God, I accept that as the sum total of all you have to say in this debate...and it really amounts to nothing.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

I did ban you, right? Ok..........I hope God has not banned you from life yet and left you in Hell. As long as you are still with us, there is time for you to be saved. Time is running out.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
0 points

By your own words you have no valid way of supporting your own argument, so your arguing here is over...you can argue against God's love forever if you want too. I'm sorry you feel that way.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
EchoNova1(21) Banned
1 point

God loves, me, loves you, and loves everyone. if he didn't then everyone in this debate would be suffering in hell right now. not just us but everyone. He loves you enough to give you a chance to learn right from wrong and do the right thing. Sadly many will choose wrong and lead themselves to destruction. but you can be saved, Just know that God does love you and that if you follow him then you will find heaven.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
2 points

I dont understand some of these people(s) train of thought. I dont see how you can agree that God created you, but does not love you. It said that God loved us so much, he allowed his creations to love or hate/deny his love and existence.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
EchoNova1(21) Banned
1 point

I don't understand their point of view on this either. but that is why this is a debate. we must explain to them why what they're saying makes no sense and prove that God loves us all. Infact: Saintnow created this debate for that exact reason. But one day when they see fire (if you know what I mean) they will come around.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

You sound like a Catholic. You are teaching a religion of self-justification. There is only one way to Heaven, and it's Jesus Christ. You cannot enter Heaven except through Him. Doing the right thing does not change you from being what you are, a sinner. I banned you from other debates for your way of pretty much ignoring me and trying to take the lead in discussions...rudeness to me. This is my debate. If you want to discuss the love of God according to your own feelings, and run the show, do it in your own debate.

Side: I don't believe it.
0 points

I believe God loves me, but not for the reasons you stated. I also believe God loves all his children unconditionally. Even if they denounce him during life and even if they sin. As long as they don't sin more than they do good. When they die they have a chance to repent and ask for forgiveness to his face. And I believe God allows them to join him in heaven after that, especially if they were good people during life.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Saintnow(3684) Clarified
2 points

It seems like you are implying that your goodness equal's God's goodness. It's good that you believe God loves you, but how can you believe you are good enough for God to owe you exemption from Hell? If you have sinned, you are a sinner and cannot be good enough to live forever. The proof is that you are dying. What makes you think you are God's child when you are insisting that you are good enough for Him even though He is sinless and you are a sinner, He is perfect and you are corrupt by sin? I'm glad you believe God loves you, but I'm afraid you are mistaking His love for weakness.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
MrFelpe(35) Clarified
0 points

No, you're implying that I think my goodness is at his level. All I said was that God loves all his children unconditionally and therefore he can show forgiveness. It's not a weakness to show forgiveness, it's actually a strength. You're also implying that you know God personally and know exactly what he thinks and how he behaves. Where did you learn this? In all actuality none of us know if we are good enough for God. I highly doubt God is as judgmental as most religions make him to be. Mostly because all the scriptures, although holy to their sects, were written by men trying to interpret God's word. Who's to say they got it right? God is something none of us mortal beings can ever fully understand. God branded us with a sense of morality in a sin filled world, however. So I'm sure as long as you make the right choices you will he fine when the time comes.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
0 points

Its not logical to say God created you because he doesn't love you.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
0 points

not sure what you are saying here...........corrected. I read your posts more carefully. Thank you for your posts and the good example you show for civil discourse.

Side: I don't believe it.
6 points

First, this isn't a debate, this is proselytizing.

Second, saying "worship me or burn in hell" is not love. Many people can not "choose" to suddenly believe in God or the divinity of Jesus, for a wide variety of reasons. According to Christianity and Islam, these people will be tortured for eternity for reasons that are outside of their control.

That is the opposite of love.

Side: I don't believe it.
GoneFishing(126) Disputed
2 points

You have to remember that at first it wasn't about belief. He had direct relations with humans; they conversed with God. We were given pretty much everything we could have needed and wanted the problem was that he established rules, that ultimately not followed.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

So why are you debating? It's obvious that you do not believe God loves you, but you are doing a terrible job of supporting your argument.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Foxglove(205) Disputed Banned
2 points

He cannot possibly be doing a terrible job of supporting his argument when there is no argument to be had in the first instance. Your debate does not specifically pose any question for him (or anyone) to answer so he can only comment in line with the framework’s content i.e. describing his view. Even if you disagree, you cannot fault him for that.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
GenericName(3429) Clarified Banned
1 point

Then why not address what I said, instead of declaring that I did a horrible job?

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

You choose to believe whatever you want to believe. If you won't believe the truth, your unbelief will not change the truth. Most people will not believe Hell is real and undeniably incomprehensibly unpleasant until they find themselves unable to get out of the fire.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
GenericName(3429) Disputed Banned
2 points

One can not simply choose to believe in God. I have certainly tried before, and failed.

Which brings up the point that God will, according to your belief, send me to hell because of something that is not my choice.

Side: I don't believe it.
ReaLogic(6) Clarified Banned
1 point

Don't tell or suggest what religion to believe in, it makes you a scumbag no offence

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

You are mistake about many things, I'll start with Islam in this post. Islam teaches that Hell is temporary, a place where infidels receive correction so they will believe God's name is Allah and then Allah will let them out of Hell to live in Mohammed's paradise. That is why they believe it is good to kill all the infidels. Eventually, in Islamic belief, everybody ends up with God in paradise. The easy way to paradise, according to Islam, is to become a Muslim by insisting God's name is Allah and Muahammed is His proppet. The hard way for you to go to paradise, according to Islam, is for you to be killed as an infidel so you can be corrected in Hell and then you become a Muslim so you are good to go to paradise. You might want to become a Muslim now.

Your idea of Christianity is skewed. The Bible teaches that Hell is just punishment which sinners bring upon themselves. Accusing God of torturing people in Hell is trying to shift the blame for your death away from your sin and place that blame on God for not letting you get away with it. Try to think logically here.

God loves you so much that He took your place in death, He died to save you even though you trample His blood under your feet saying it is nothing for you, no good for you. He is risen from the dead and has every right to be angry with you for putting Him through it when you insist you don't want what He did for you to save you from Hell. If you end up burning in Hell with no way out, you did it to yourself. It is you who is opposing God's love. You are the opposite of God's love, you are going against yourself by insisting God does not love you.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
GenericName(3429) Disputed Banned
3 points

Your idea of Christianity is skewed. The Bible teaches that Hell is just punishment which sinners bring upon themselves.

Yes, simply by not believing in God.

Accusing God of torturing people in Hell is trying to shift the blame for your death away from your sin and place that blame on God for not letting you get away with it. Try to think logically here.

Logically, God is a monster. He sends people to be tortured for eternity for not worshiping him, regardless of how good and "moral" their lives were. That is quintessential vanity.

God loves you so much that He took your place in death, He died to save you even though you trample His blood under your feet saying it is nothing for you, no good for you.

You are right, I see no reason to worship a god that tortures people simply for not believing in him.

God loves you so much that He took your place in death, He died to save you even though you trample His blood under your feet saying it is nothing for you, no good for you.

Not really. You are ascribing incredibly human emotions onto god, and declaring them justified, despite the fact that, as the Alpha and Omega, he created everything knowing who would and would not go to Heaven long before they were born. That is unbelievably cruel to then punish said individuals for a system he created.

If you end up burning in Hell with no way out, you did it to yourself.

Only if you disregard god's omniscience and omnipotence, starting with "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end" in Genesis.

Side: I don't believe it.
Foxglove(205) Clarified Banned
1 point

Going by what you have posted I appreciate that you may be a Christian, but the abrasive manner in which you are airing your beliefs does not translate at all well. There is nothing wrong with sharing your beliefs on this site, but it should be in the context of an actual debate (the site’s purpose), not as a platform for proselytism. Just try to be a little more respectful of others in that way.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
TheCapConKid(293) Disputed Banned
0 points

Also hell is not temporary, in the bible it clearly states FOR ETERNITY because that's what satan wants. To have those who didn't accept God's rescue burn for eternity because it hurts god's heart.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

No, idiot, you do not understand the Word of God or the teachings of Islam. Your sin takes you to Hell. There is no place for sin in Heaven, sinners have no place to be but in the fire of Hell. Only God's mercy allows you time in the world outside of Hell as a sinner.

Islam teaches that after correction by the fire of Hell, you will learn to always say God's name is Allah and Muhammed is his profit, and then you will be released from Hell and allowed to live in paradise. That is why they teach it is good to kill those who are infidel against Islam....they are doing the Islamaphobes a favor by sending them to Hell where they can be corrected so they can live in paradise.

The torments of Hell are brought on sinners by themselves. God died for you, He made the way for you to be saved from Hell, if you reject Him as your Savior, then He will be your judge and you will keep your own death in Hell by your own choice, God unwillingly but lovingly giving you want you wanted in the world, proof of the absence of His tender loving care for you.

You're an idiot if you won't stop arguing against God.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
TheCapConKid(293) Disputed Banned
0 points

Most are wrong here... The creator of this debate did a terrible job wording it out. God tells us to choose him so he can save you from hell, because if you don't choose him satan has your soul and satan will take you to hell.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Saintnow(3684) Clarified
1 point

A person's sin takes them to Hell which was created for the devil and his angels. I'm not sure I can be in agreement with you when you are misplacing blame. It seems like maybe you need to create your own debate and try to say whatever it is you are trying to say.

Try to focus on God's love please, either you believe He loves you or you believe He does not love you and please explain why you are on whatever side you are on, thank you.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
GenericName(3429) Disputed Banned
0 points

That choice is irrelevant, though. The Bible says that god is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. God created existence, knowing everything that would happen ahead of time. He created everything, essentially preordained, and therefore the choice is no real choice at all.

Regardless, outside of that theological idea, many do not "choose" to believe or not. I spent much of my youth wishing I was a Christian, and actively trying to believe in Christianity, for a variety of reasons. I was, of course, unsuccessful. So I am to be punished for eternity because of that?

Side: I don't believe it.
2 points

For the sake of argument I'll assume that god exists. If god loves us so much why did he create us with horrible genetic defects such as harlequin ichthyosis, fibrodysplasia ossificans progressiva, treacher-collins syndrome, crouzon syndrome and progeria. If you want to see just how horrible those things are, take a look, just be warned they are pretty gruesome. There are over 14,000 diseases and mental disorders just in humans and countless more in animals and insects. Are all of those things part of your loving gods design? How about all the following things? WARNING: The links take you to some graphic content.

· Mosquitos that have infected 700 million people with disease in Africa alone, killing millions of them.

· Kissing bugs which have infected 16 to 18 million people with Chaga’s disease, killing 20,000 of them each year.

· Bot Flies and Mangoworms that embed their larvae into you.

· Smallpox which was responsible for an estimated 300–500 million deaths during the 20th century.

· Porphyria (AKA Vampires Disease)

· Mucocutaneous Leishmaniasis

· Necrotizing Fasciitis

· Kidney Worms

· Blood Sucking Ticks

· Leprosy

· Rabies

· Naegleria Fowleria (AKA The Brain-Eating Amoeba) which gets inside your brain and causes headache, fever, nausea, vomiting, confusion, hallucinations, loss of muscle control, seizures, and eventually death.

Either god did a terrible job designing life and his designs have gone horribly wrong, or he intentionally designed it in a way that results in an incredible amount of suffering and violence.

http://i.imgur.com/R6fkHit.jpg

Side: I don't believe it.
TheCapConKid(293) Disputed Banned
1 point

God didn't create those diseases, they occurred when man sinned.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

You are trying to blame God for problems which are the result of sin. We were created in Adam, the first man, from whom we are descended. He was created with eternal life, then lost that life by choice of rebelling against God. God proved His love by taking Adam's, yours, and my place in death as the Son of God, Jesus Christ. God made a temporary covering for Adam's rebellion by executing the death penalty on an animal in place of Adam, then clothing Adam with that animal's skin as a covering for his sin. This pictured God's promise to become the sacrificial Lamb Himself. Jesus is the Lamb of God who died for our sins, and rose for our justification if we will turn from, against, our sin, repent and believe on His resurrection. If we will believe on Him and receive Him as He is, the Savior, through Him we know God's love. I believe God loves me. I'm sorry you seem to prefer to believe God does not love you. There is nothing more He can do for you than what He did in Jesus Christ.

Jesus is coming back. He will one day remove sin and all of the diseases, pain, and heartaches it has caused forever from His creation and it will exist only in the fire of Hell where it will be confined and not spread any more of it's disease. We would all like to be free of death and disease, wouldn't we? Blaming God for it will never get you free.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
GenericName(3429) Disputed Banned
2 points

We were created in Adam, the first man, from whom we are descended. He was created with eternal life, then lost that life by His choice of rebelling against God.

God created Adam and the Garden knowing he would sin, so how was it a choice? He created the garden in such a way, and Adam in such a way, that said choice would be made. Is it truly a choice, then?

Side: I don't believe it.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Kissing bugs are not likely to infect you if you don't kiss somebody who kissed kissing bugs before you marry them. Those bugs would not be spread if people would stop committing sexual sin. Kissing somebody you are not married to is sexual sin. If you do it and you catch kissing bugs from it, who's fault is it? Are you trying to say that if God loves you He would not allow you to commit sexual sin? God loves you and wants you to be saved from your sins. Trying to blame God for people's problems will not get you excused for your sin. Why not believe God loves you and come to Him saying sorry for your sin and receive His forgiveness, receive Him as your Savior? Jesus will come into you and make you a new person, and make you to be like Him, sinless in eternal life enjoying all of God's blessings in Heaven forever if you will only believe in His love and receive Him as your Savior...when you do you will understand God hates your sin while He loves you as His child forever and you will one day be free from sin forever, with a new body exempt from pain and disease like Jesus forever. God loves you. Quit fighting Him please, for your own sake.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
LittleMisfit(1747) Disputed Banned
1 point

They're called kissing bugs because they usually bite people near their mouth during the night while they sleep. It has nothing to do with actual kissing.

Side: I don't believe it.
Saintnow(3684) Clarified
1 point

Death entered in to mankind through sin. Adam sinned, he died. God in mercy gave time, and over time the corruption of sin caused more and more disease in the race of mankind.

God loves all of mankind, and His remedy for sin is preferred by Him over His judgement against it. It has to be put away from Him. To put IT (sin) away without putting all sinners (you and me) away from Him forever in Hell, He took it on Himself in the form of God the Man, the Son of God, Jesus Christ who paid for our sins with His blood. He took the sins of mankind and it's death upon Himself so in His resurrection we can be saved from Hell.

None of the sufferings you are blaming God for compare with the suffering He went through because He loves you too much to let you die with no way of being saved from your sin. You need to look at your sin which caused God's suffering when He died for you to save you from Hell, and know His love. What else can He do for you? He didn't do enough for you? What more do you want from Him? Do you want to sit on His throne and banish Him from His Kingdom because He is not good enough for you? If God allowed that to you, it would mean He does not care about anything....it's not going to happen, you are not God to yourself and you can't be God to anybody else.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
GoneFishing(126) Disputed
1 point

So, in your opinion, God hates us because.... bad things happen and exist? My friend, there is path that all of our lives are on and through these paths we formulate our own experiences. How we perceive this world is through the lens that we project through, to simply deny Gods love through the negative things that exist, denies all the countless miracles that have happened. It is your perception that can change a bad world into a good one. \

If he hates us so much, why would he create us in the first place?

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

GenericName(3474) Banned

5 points

First, this isn't a debate, this is proselytizing.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
TrumpsHair(312) Disputed Banned
2 points

Oohh, ooohh, ban me too!

Side: I don't believe it.
Cuaroc(8826) Banned
2 points

If god loves us so much why would he create hell at all.

Side: I don't believe it.
2 points

Hell was originally made to be a punishment for Lucifer/Satan and his angels. Anyone who rejects Christ is subject to eternal torment. Also, just because God created Hell doesn't mean he doesn't love his worshipers.

Side: I don't believe it.
Cuaroc(8826) Disputed Banned
2 points

So a perfect being is only capable of loving only the people that worship him?

Side: I don't believe it.
GenericName(3429) Disputed Banned
1 point

But the problem is that he only loves his worshipers. Should he not love all his children? Should an omniscient being really be so absorbed with worship that he sends people to be tormented if they do not worship him?

Is that a benevolent being?

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
-1 points

Good to see you finally said something clear in support of the fact that God loves anybody who says He does not love them. You trash your own argument when you say things implying that God's word is questionable. I hope you quit doing that....God will hold you accountable for saying His word is not reliable.

Side: I don't believe it.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

I don't think you really want to know. I think you really want death and not God's love.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
-1 points

If God did not create Hell, what would He do with His creatures which had turned against Him? What good would God be if He allows evil to roam unpunished, corrupting and damaging everything it touches? Hell is to confine and forever stop evil. We all hate evil, don't we? Or do you prefer that evil continue forever, unpunished and unconfined? God will confine all evil in Hell because He is love and will protect His people from evil. The battle between good and evil will end when evil is forever purged from creation in prison of Hell where it belongs. God loves you and died for your sins to save you from that prison.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
GenericName(3429) Disputed Banned
1 point

If God did not create Hell, what would He do with His creatures which had turned against Him?

Why create creatures that would turn against him? To truly be the Alpha and Omega, he would have known when creating them what they would do.

What good would God be if He allows evil to roam unpunished, corrupting and damaging everything it touches?

What good is it that God created evil in the first place?

God will confine all evil in Hell because He is love and will protect His people from evil.

So is one truly evil simply for not being able to believe in the Christian god?

Side: I don't believe it.
Jace(4706) Banned
2 points

I do not believe that God loves me because I do not believe in God.

Side: I don't believe it.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

So you believe God does not love you. That's sad. Do you really think you are that unlovable?

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
0 points

I guess that's a good enough reason for you to believe God does not love you. I hope you don't go on believing that forever. God loves you and so do I.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Jace(4706) Disputed Banned
2 points

It is extraordinarily unlikely that I will ever start believing in that which does not exist. I also do not think you can truly love someone you have not even met, but thanks for the rather empty sentiment I suppose.

Side: I don't believe it.
2 points

Does god love the people that he said you can make slaves out of?

Leviticus 25-44-46 “As for the male and female slaves whom you may have, it is from the nations around you that you may acquire male and female slaves. You may also acquire them from among the aliens residing with you, and from their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property. You may keep them as a possession for your children after you, for them to inherit as property. These you may treat as slaves, but as for your fellow Israelites, no one shall rule over the other with harshness.”

Does god love the slaves he said you can beat within an inch of their life?

Exodus 21:20-21 “When a slaveowner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property.”

Do god love the girls he said you can sell to men as slaves and or polygamous wives?

Exodus 21:7-11 If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do. If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money."

Side: I don't believe it.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

God loves you in spite of the fact that you keep trying to blame Him for every thing. You are rejecting Him to your own detriment.

You are a slave to your own sin, condemned by it to death and in danger of Hell if you will not believe God loves you and took your place in death to save you from Hell. If you will stop trying to justify yourself and start believing His love for you is real and the effects are all good for you, you can gladly seek God's forgiveness and accept His offer of pardon through His blood in Jesus Christ and you will be with Him in His resurrection with a new body like His glorified body free from all effects of sin forever.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
LittleMisfit(1747) Disputed Banned
4 points

So you're just going to dodge all my questions again. You've made it obvious that you're not actually here to debate, you're here to preach. I hope you realize that your attempt to proselytize here is going to be counterproductive if you just continue to repeat the same rhetoric over and over, dodge everyone's questions, and ban people. It just shows everyone that Christianity is indefensible. If anything, you're driving people away from Christianity. So, please keep doing what you're doing ;)

Side: I don't believe it.
Jace(4706) Disputed Banned
2 points

This is what it looks like when someone dodges the issue. Your Christian God condones slavery in the Bible and yet according to you still loves the people whose enslavement he condones. This has nothing to do with whether he loves the person you are debating, rendering your post non-responsive. Your failure to address a valid counterpoint is effectively a concession either that God does not love everyone or that God's conception is love is a gross distortion upon what we understand love to be.

Side: I don't believe it.
Saintnow(3684) Clarified
1 point

Have you read the Bible? You are taking little pieces out of context and using them as justification for your belief that you are as good as God or better, I guess.

Is that it? You think that you are as good as God whether He is real or not? That's what happens in twisted reasoning because God gave us the power of reason and the freedom to twist logic, even allowing you to speak evil against Him by insisting He is not there and does not love you.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
LilMisfit(6) Disputed Banned
2 points

"Have you read the Bible?"

Yes, I have read the Bible. I was a very devout Christian for 25 years.

"You are taking little pieces out of context."

Prove it. Show how the context changes the meaning. I included links to all the verses so you could view the context. Just click the links, then click the icon with a bunch of horizontal lines right above the bible version drop-down list to see the verse in context.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Foxglove(205) Clarified Banned
0 points

Does god love the people that he said you can make slaves out of?

Leviticus 25-44-46 “As for the male and female slaves whom you may have, it is from the nations around you that you may acquire male and female slaves. You may also acquire them from among the aliens residing with you, and from their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property. You may keep them as a possession for your children after you, for them to inherit as property. These you may treat as slaves, but as for your fellow Israelites, no one shall rule over the other with harshness.”

Yes. The slavery documented here is unlike the slavery you may be thinking of which occurred just a few centuries earlier. At this point slavery was a means of payment when individuals were in debt and had no other wherewithal. Therefore, by volunteering themselves for such service they were putting themselves forward to be acquired by those seeking it. It was not an advocation but a regulation of this practice and as such did not bear the savage connotation it does today (in reference to the Western form).

Does god love the slaves he said you can beat within an inch of their life?

Exodus 21:20-21 “When a slaveowner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property.”

Yes. This does not necessarily translate to beating someone within an inch of their life. Sometimes one can be struck once and a single blow could incur death. However, in the case of a beating it was a means of determining intent: if the severity was so pronounced that this was the result then accountability could be attributed to the owner and he would face charges for murder (which would ordinarily be instantaneous). However, if the slave did survive then it would be classified as manslaughter as not only may their survival indicate that the owner must not have intended murder, but other factors may have precipitated eventual death that he could not be held accountable for.

Do god love the girls he said you can sell to men as slaves and or polygamous wives?

Exodus 21:7-11 “If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do. If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money."

Yes. This again reverts back to the definition of slavery by Biblical standards. By granting her the rights of a daughter this would suggest consideration as part of the family. Secondly, polygamous marriage was not something God instituted. His design for marriage has always been monogamy but in light of the free will He had accorded human beings He could not control the way they were constructing their culture; that would otherwise be a retraction of that free will. The very least He could do was regulate that construction. Man had organised society in such a way that women had very little standing independent of a man, and if unmarried were more liable to abuse from strangers. Therefore, marriage would provide that security and protection, the condition being that there was equal treatment and rights amongst them.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
LittleMisfit(1747) Disputed Banned
2 points

This is going to be long, but since I hear the same apologetic over and over again I want to be thorough. This message will give you an overview of slavery in the Bible. I will respond to your arguments in a separate post.

There are two different types of servitude described in the Bible, voluntary servitude to pay off debt and chattel slavery, which is equivalent to modern day slavery. Leviticus chapter 25 describes both. It begins with, “The LORD spoke to Moses on Mount Sinai, saying:…” So, if we are to believe the text, these are direct quotes from God.

VOLUNTARY SERVITUDE

Starting at verse 39 he describes voluntary servitude, which only applies to Israelites.

Leviticus 25:39-43 “If any who are dependent on you become so impoverished that they sell themselves to you, you shall NOT make them serve as slaves. They shall remain with you as hired or bound laborers. They shall serve with you until the year of the jubilee. Then they and their children with them shall be free from your authority; they shall go back to their own family and return to their ancestral property. For they are my servants, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt; they shall not be sold as slaves are sold. You shall not rule over them with harshness, but shall fear your God.”

Notice how he makes it very clear that they are not to be treated like slaves or ruled over harshly. Why would he need to say that if slaves aren't treated harshly like apologists often claim?

CHATTEL SLAVERY

In verses 44-46 god talks about chattel slavery. I applies to non-Israelites and the person is treated as property. These people are slaves for life and cannot buy their freedom. God doesn’t say not to treat these slaves harshly and later on says you can beat them with a rod.

Leviticus 25-44-46 “As for the male and female slaves whom you may have, it is from the nations around you that you may acquire male and female slaves. You may also acquire them from among the aliens residing with you, and from their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property. You may keep them as a possession for your children after you, for them to inherit as property. These you may treat as slaves, but as for your fellow Israelites, no one shall rule over the other with harshness.”

That last verse is a clear indicator that slaves are treated harshly, otherwise there would be no reason to include the second half of the verse.

Verses 47-55 describes how if an Israelite falls on hard times and sells themself as a servant to a non-Israelite, the servant has the option of buying their freedom. No such option is available to non-Israelites or women.

Deut 24:7 "If someone is caught kidnapping a fellow Israelite and treating or selling them as a slave, the kidnapper must die."

This shows us two things about slaves. First, they are kidnapped, it's not voluntary. Second, treating an Israelite like a slave is such a horrible thing that the penalty is death. Yet as we've already seen, god is okay with slavery as long as it is done to non-Israelites.

RULES FOR HEBREW/ISRAELITE SERVANTS

Now let’s jump to Exodus 21 where god outlines some rules for keeping servants and tells people how they can exploit a loophole in his rules to force someone into a lifetime of servitude.

Exodus 21:1-6 “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free. But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,’ then his master must take him before the judges. He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life."

So here we have god saying that Hebrew servants are to be set free after 7 years. However, if you give your servant a wife and they have kids, you can hold the wife and kids hostage in order to get the servant to serve for a lifetime. Also note that the women and children are never set free, unlike male servants who can leave after seven years.

SLAVES ARE WORTH LESS THAN FREE PEOPLE

Continuing on to verses 28-32 god says if someone has a bull that frequently gores people and the owner doesn't keep the bull penned up, if the bull kills someone both the bull and the owner are to be put to death. However, if the person that got killed was just a slave the owner only has to pay 30 shekels. Remember, these things are supposedly direct quotes from god, so god clearly doesn't think people are equal.

SLAVERY IN THE NEW TESTAMENT

Colossians 3:22 “Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything, not only while being watched and in order to please them, but wholeheartedly, fearing the Lord.”

Titus 2:9 “Tell slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to talk back.”

CONCLUSION

The god described in the Bible clearly doesn’t object to slavery. He even defines the rules for it. So as I see it we are left with two possible conclusions.

1. God condones slavery and is therefore not benevolent.

2. The Bible was written by men who claimed god said those things, but god never really said those things or he just doesn’t exist.

APOLOGETICS

The following verses are often cited by apologists as proof that god is against slavery.

--------------------------------------

Exodus 21:16 “Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper’s possession.”

I believe this verse is only referring to the kidnapping of Israelites. Why do I think that?

1. The same rule is restated in Deut 24:7 but this time with added clarification. “If a man is caught kidnapping any of his countrymen of the sons of Israel, and he deals with him violently or sells him, then that thief shall die." If it's wrong to kidnap anyone, why would he add "any of his countrymen of the sons of Israel" to it. There would be no need to include that part.

2. Moses tells god's followers to enslave all the non-Israelites cities in the area. Deuteronomy 20:10-15.

3. It contradicts many of the verses we talked about earlier, but that contradiction is resolved if this verse only applies to Israelites.

--------------------------------------

Eph 6:9 "And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favouritism with him."

Since god has already stated there is no punishment for beating your slaves with a rod, either Jesus is not god, god changed his mind, or this is only referring to Israelite slaves.

--------------------------------------

Col 4:1 "Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven."

What is right and fair is to not be a slave!

--------------------------------------

Deut 23:15-16 “You shall not hand over to his master a slave who has escaped from his master to you. He shall live with you in your midst, in the place which he shall choose in one of your towns where it pleases him; you shall not mistreat him."

That passage is talking about slaves from other nations, not slaves from within their own nation, as indicated by the second verse. Remember, god already said, "you may acquire male and female slaves." So, either god was lying when he said that, or this verse only applies to slaves fleeing foreign nations. It's also possible that it is talking about Israelite who were enslaved by foreign nations, because there are some indicators throughout the chapter that he is speaking about how Israelites should treat each other, such as "the daughters of Israel", "your countrymen" and "your neighbor." However, that part is not crystal clear.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Saintnow(3684) Clarified
1 point

wonderful. Now explain why the God-hater should believe they are loved by God when they see all the suffering in the world.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
TheCapConKid(293) Disputed Banned
-1 points

Your taking from the Old Testament when God had to compromise with the Jews who had to hardened of hearts to accept anything different.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
LittleMisfit(1747) Disputed Banned
4 points

If that's really the case then we may as well throw out the rest of gods rules. Most people have sex before marriage, all people lie, millions of people take the lords name in vain, billions of people worship other gods, etc. So I guess all those things are allowed now for the same reason god allowed slavery, right? Besides, you haven't provided any evidence to support your claim. It's just a baseless assertion. Show me some verses where god says the only reason he allowed slavery is because of the hardness of their hearts.

Side: I don't believe it.
ReaLogic(6) Banned
2 points

No he don't love us after all the tragic torture that has been done in the world, neither do I believie in him I think he's just an encouraging excuse which tricks people.

Side: I don't believe it.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

So if God would immediately fix everything you think is wrong with the world, then you would believe He loves you? Part of the problem with that idea is that God would have to put you in Hell to confine your evils which flow from your sinful heart. Your bitterness is obvious, it belongs in Hell and God is giving you time. You should be thankful to God for His mercy in giving you time, but you keep on heaping His wrath on you accusing Him of not caring and He will run out of patience with you. Why is that not logical? God loves you even though you act like His enemy. He wants you to be saved and know Him personally, to have everlasting life.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Awwww, boo hoo, you feel God loves you and you have no hope of being relieved from the evils of the world. Why don't you listen?

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
daver(1771) Banned
2 points

This debate is an invitation for people to explain why they believe God does not love them, and a challenge for me to convince them that He does indeed love them.

Your debate question assumes that your God exists.

I do not believe in your God or any God/creator of the universe. From that standpoint, it is not rationally possible for me to believe I am loved by any God.

Before convincing me the your God loves me, can you first cause me to believe that your God actually exists? -------– NO

This fact narrows the scope of your debaters to only those who believe your God exists. Ain't that like a straw man er sumthin?

Side: I don't believe it.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

So you have nothing to argue about. Why did you come here? What good is it for you to tell me that you reject God?

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

You are the straw man here, pretending like you have something to talk about. You have nothing but death, so you really have nothing to talk about in this discussion. You are not listening, so you are banned.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Saintnow(3684) Clarified
0 points

Well at least you admit that you have nothing to say in this debate. The only straw man in this debate is a person who says there is no God and then thinks they have something to substantiate their belief that they cannot be loved by God. You have nothing to debate with here, do you? If you don't want to believe God loves you, fine. In this debate, you have nothing to say if you cannot explain why you believe God does not love you. Simply saying you believe there is no God ends your debating for yourself. God loves you so He allows you to have your own way if you think it's worth it.

One time I had this debate with an honest person who believed God did not love Him because God did not allow Him to have in marriage the woman He loved before she suddenly and unexpectedly fell to a fast and painful bout with cancer. Insisting there is no God as your reason for believing you are not loved by God is not being honest. The truth is that you think you are better than God and could do a better job of being God if you really were God. That's just the way atheists think, it's natural.

I'm not going do debate "God exists" VS "God does not exist" because my opponent in such a debate has nothing to support his argument other than the fact that He believes there is no God.

I won't run that rabbit trail. If you don't want to believe God loves you, don't believe it. I'm sorry you feel that way.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
daver(1771) Clarified Banned
0 points

I'm not going do debate "God exists" VS "God does not exist" because my opponent in such a debate has nothing to support his argument other than the fact that He believes there is no God.

Yeah that's kinda my point. There is zero proof on either side of that argument. So you go ahead anyway and want to debate as though you know your God is real. Just say'in you assume too much.

If you want to believe in your God ------ Cool, do that, but don't assume everyone else does, on acounta some of us don't.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
skyfish(276) Banned
2 points

trying too hard to suspend disbelieve about a zombie jesus just "takes me out of the movie"...

.

if you know what i mean.

Side: I don't believe it.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

You are the zombie, walking around dying. Jesus is the everliving God who created you and took your place in death. He's smarter, stronger, and better than you if you like it or not. He loves you and you are doing everything you can to smear His name and insult Him. Who can you blame if you wake up in Hell?

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Cuaroc(8826) Banned
2 points

No his actions clearly show that he despises Humankind.

Side: I don't believe it.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

No, your actions clearly show that you despise Him. God love you if you love Him or not. He proved His love for you by taking your place in death, then rising from the grave with His nail pierced hands outstretched for you offering you pardon, forgiveness, deliverance from. Just because you think the world is supposed to be Burger King where you can have it all your way and God won't let you have it does not mean He does not love you, it only means you are spoiled rotten by His mercy which is keeping you out of Hell now.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Nomoturtle(716) Disputed Banned
2 points

can you argue anything without relying on "god's love"?

He proved His love for you by taking your place in death

what meaning does 3 days of not-really-death hold for a god? why is "taking our place in death" meaningful if he wants us to go to heaven?

Just because you think the world is supposed to be Burger King where you can have it all your way and God won't let you have it does not mean He does not love you, it only means you are spoiled rotten by His mercy which is keeping you out of Hell now.

say that to those in despair, see what you get out of them.

just a personal question: for what purpose do you believe our time on earth is for?

Side: I don't believe it.
Cuaroc(8826) Clarified Banned
0 points

No, his actions clearly show that he despises us. God hates you if you love Him or not. He proved His hate for you by causing the death of millions.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Saintnow(3684) Clarified
1 point

So you believe God despises you...I guess that's why you sound so ornery. I supposed I would be ornery also, if I believe God despises me. I think that's a downright pitiful way of looking at yourself.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Saintnow(3684) Clarified
0 points

So what did God do to you or fail to do for you which makes you think He does not love you? You want all suffering in the world to end and everybody to have paradise, and that is what you want for yourself? What is it? Can you tell me what happened to you or what failed to happen for you to make you think God does not love you?

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Nomoturtle(716) Disputed Banned
0 points

not everyone can be a masochist.. .

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Cuaroc(8826) Clarified Banned
0 points

So what did God do to you or fail to do for you which makes you think He does not love you

Simple I read the bible and saw all the evil deeds he has committed.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
2 points

i always wonder if maybe someday an infallible religion will arise from the ashes of nonsensical incomplete ones crushed by logical imperfections, a sort of ideological evolution.

Side: I don't believe it.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

You described your own life pretty well here....you are practicing what you think is an infallible religion in which you cannot end up burning in Hell. You worship your own mind by which you believe you have defeated God and Hell and go unpunished in death so nothing you did wrong really matters. Poof, and you think you are gone free from guilt.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

again, every time I see this junk from you I find it annoying. If you don't want me to respond to you, don't put your comments in my discussions, and don't respond to my posts in other discussions.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
-1 points

maybe nonsensicle fallibility will become circular logic and you will be changed into superman and never have to die.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
-2 points
Nomoturtle(716) Disputed Banned
1 point

You are being your own god

that's an optimistic way of putting it

rejecting your Creator's love

rejecting not only god's hypothetical love, but also god's baseless existence

working to convince yourself that you are exempt form punishment in death. Your religion can never fail because your death will never end in Hell.....

people with religious agendas should never play psycho-analyst, terrible playing partners, they are.

and my guess is that you still think you are going to prove me wrong

i have no intention of proving you wrong, just in expressing my opinion, which you even considerately made the side "i don't believe it" for. i just didn't realise you were the sort of tireless delusional who bans all their opponents where you don't agree

i have absolutely nothing against religion or the people who practice it, and actually think they are a benefit to the world most of the time. what i really can't stand is people like you. unfortunately inconsiderate people like you are everywhere. there are others who disagree with you. come to terms with it and deflate yourself. all people are victim to their own ego, but you are controlled by it.

you are an antagonistic delusional that goes around spreading your parasitic ideology under the justification of false notions of the invisible love of a sadistic creator and eternal punishment for those against you. you believe you can be saved from your death by shamelessly clinging to your frail hope at eternal life in a better place in the ultimate show of cowardice. you lack what it takes to live independently and rely on the image of the approval of a god for your selfish satisfaction and special needs. stop trying to pull people into your warped world and leave people to their own devices.

Side: I don't believe it.
umaroth(7) Banned
2 points

A psychopath is incapable to feeling emotions such as love.

Side: I don't believe it.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

so you believe God does not love you because you are a psychopath? God can and will fix that if you will repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved from Hell.

Side: I don't believe it.
umaroth(7) Disputed Banned
1 point

so you believe God does not love you because you are a psychopath?

No it's because god is the psychopath

Side: I don't believe it.
umaroth(7) Disputed Banned
0 points

saved from Hell.

The real hell is spending an eternity with a Psychopath that you call god.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
2 points

I'm going to try and take you seriously, even though you have, in my view, behaved somewhat childishly. I doubt we will get anywhere constructive, but I will try.

In the debate description, you said: God wants you to be with Him in heaven forever, so He took on a body as the Son of God and paid for your sins with His own blood so you don't have to pay with your life in Hell. You will be justfied for eternal life if you agree with God as to His right to punish sin after He took the punishment on Himself and death could not hold Him in the ground; if you will repent of your sin and believe Jesus is risen from the dead and is God and receive Him personally as your Savior, God will give you eternal life...Jesus wil live in you by His Holy Spirit makign you a child of God.

Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. God loves you and does not want you to be lost forever; He loves you so much He will let you be lost forever if that is what you want to be...even though you broke His heart so much that He died for you.

However, throughout that, you presented no reason why I should believe that. So as a starting point: You have made the positive claims: God exists, God loves you, God became Jesus, if you call upon the name of the Lord you shall be saved, etc. etc.. So far, you have presented no reasons to believe that. So, present why you believe that to be true, and then we can discuss that. Otherwise, you are saying "I believe this because it's true," which is not a legitimate argument.

Side: I don't believe it.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

You are arguing against the truth. Jesus is God, God came down from Heaven as Jesus Christ. God did not become Jesus Christ, He is Jesus Christ. God the Father, God the Son (Jesus), and God the Holy Spirit. These three are One.

I"m not making an argument, I'm stating facts. You don't want to believe the facts because you love the pleasures of your sin and prefer believing you have the right to exist outside of Hell so your sin is worth the price of your death. You are a fool, and you can prove or disprove it for yourself. To prove you are a fool, keep on talking and thinking the way you have been until your death is finalized. To disprove that you are a fool, agree with God...you can't do that, can you? You are too proud, aren't you? You won't agree with God, will you? I don't think you will, and I hope I am wrong. I really feel sorry for you.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
-1 points

I'm going to ignore your opening insults and try to clarify some of your misunderstandings........I'm also going to ignore your stupid screenname and assume you are better than a stupid dirty dog. God is much more concerned with people than He is with dogs. He does love dogs and grieves when He sees one die, but you are worth much more than a dog to God. You are made in His image with the ability to be His enemy. Dogs can only be dogs.

God did not become Jesus. Jesus is God the Son who was with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit always. These three are one. His plan of redemption for you was in place before mankind was created. He knew man would rebel like Satan did and He knew what He would have to do to buy man back from the Hell he deserves for choosing to be like a devil.

The reason you should believe what I am telling you is because you are dying and need to be saved. Your sin has separated you from God, and you will end up in Hell if you will not believe Him and repent of your sin and trust in the One who as God the Son became the payment for your sin so He can forgive you in His resurrection if you call on God in Jesus name to save you. This is how God proved His love for you when you were still His enemy....He died for you so you can be reconciled to God through Him. He conquered death on your behalf if you will put your trust in Him. If you will trust Him, He will change you forever. He will let you go your own way into death forever if you don't want to be changed. You can remain a sinner forever if you want to and never be like Jesus. If you will invite Jesus in to by agreeing with God on His terms for Jesus to be your Savior, He will come in to you and make you a new creature born of the Spirit of God, Jesus Christ Himself will live in you and take you through His death into His eternal life. The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. If you don't see in this enough reason to believe on Him, it is your own choice.

Of course I believe something because it is true. Why would I believe something that is not true? It's not an argument, it's a fact. You are making it an argument by rejecting the truth, and that is between you and God, separating you from God and keeping you in imminent danger or eternal separation of Hell where all sin and sinners will be forever confined and consumed.

God loves you so much He died for you, gave His Son, God the Son sent by God the Father to die as a man like you with sinless blood from God, took your death and conquered it because you as a sinner are incapable of conquering death....you get what you deserve but God does not want you to have it that way so He, the Innocent One, laid down His life for you, paid your price so God can pardon you based on the fact that your price was paid. You can now have eternal life through Him in His resurrection. He is risen from the dead and He is LORD, the KING of all Creation, your Creator who became your Savior. God has the right to give you eternal life through Him and He has the right to leave you in Hell as an enemy of His if you want to go out that way.

So are you becoming harder against God or are you listening and thinking maybe He really does love you and is calling you to repent and believe on His Son so He can give you eternal life?

Please answer this last question...I'm not much interested in any diatribes against God or against me like so many have done here.

I did not invent this debate as an atheism VS theism debate. It's intended as personal, about your feelings toward God and how you can know He loves you and how you can have and increase your love for Him...that is if you find it in yourself to appreciate your Creator.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
2 points

PM me and I'll tell you all the reasons God does not love me...

Side: I don't believe it.
Saintnow(3684) Clarified
1 point

Ok, but know in advance that if you are abusive in speech with cuss words directed toward me or toward God or toward any problem you have or see in the world, or anything anywhere in the world or universe, I'll say God loves you if you believe it or not and I'll quit listening to you. I'll PM you and promise confidentiality of your statements as long as you are not boasting of or planning crimes. We have all done things punishable by law, I'm not concerned about petty crimes in your past. If you have raped or killed or committed grand larcenies, you probably should not speak of such things directly with me. God offers pardon so you can live forever with Him, having eternal life now as His gift for you. You can receive God's love. In PM, you can tell me why you think God does not love you and I'll try to show you that He does no matter how things may appear.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Saintnow(3684) Clarified
1 point

For the record, I repeatedly offered in PM for this person to tell me the reasons he believes God does not love him. I'm sorry I never got a response, I think I could convince the guy that God loves him.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Jungelson(3931) Clarified
1 point

Oh dude that's true. lemme get back to you

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Aspire(62) Banned
1 point

George Carlin pretty much summed this argument up for me.

Supporting Evidence: My views are mirrored to george carlins stance. (youtu.be)
Side: I don't believe it.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Remind me that you are an idiot and nothing you bring has yet had value in my discussion.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
0 points

George Carlin is a dirty minded foul mouthed fool and you have to be like him to think he is funny.

Side: I don't believe it.
1 point

Nope, to quote Richard Dawkins:

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

I can reference biblical verses for each of those claims if you want.

Also, taking all the events in the Bible the Christian God has killed an estimated 24,994,828 if you take into account the flood of Noah (its 4,994,828 if you don't).

Even if we go into this "debate" going by the assumption that everything in the Bible is true (it isn't by a long-shot) then your god would still be a very unloving and hateful person by anyone's standards.

Side: I don't believe it.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Richard Dawkins is a fool. He sounds like a raving maniac in his hatred toward God and Christians. If you want to idolize a fool, go ahead.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
WastingAway(340) Disputed Banned
2 points

Do you want me to quote the Bible? Because I can back up every one of those claims with evidence from your own holy book. Or does the Bible have too much hatred towards God and Christians to be considered a usable source?

Side: I don't believe it.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Sin is killing you, and you are including yourself in the number of people whose deaths you are blaming God for, correct, fool? You and Dawkins, what a pair of fools.

Side: He died to save you from Hell.
1 point

You are arguing against God's love. That makes it a debate. If you were discussing the love of God reasonably with me, then it would not be a debate. Fool.

Side: I don't believe it.