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Debate Score:43
Arguments:27
Total Votes:49
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JakeJ(3255) pic



Have You Ever Wondered...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5U1t4tLD_Y

 

Listen to this video and tell me what you think. What are your thoughts?

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4 points

I got through about 15 seconds, then he started in with the "did you know in countries where the government dictates..."

and from there I knew where it was going, and I must say, he's an idiot, this isn't, isn't becoming, and will likely never be a socialist country.

Also, they have running water and toilets in Sweden too, just saying.

Side: putz
JakeJ(3255) Disputed
1 point

"I must say, he's an idiot"

15 seconds.

15 freaking seconds and you stop watching and resort to the lowest form of argument.

"this isn't, isn't becoming, and will likely never be a socialist country."

Not completely, but the less socialist the better, do you really want socialized health care? If so then why?

"Also, they have running water and toilets in Sweden too, just saying."

Did they put a man on the moon? Did they invent all the stuff we did? Did they put a whole new meaning to the words "hard work"?

Just Saying.

Watch the rest of the dang video or get out.

Side: he is right
xaeon(1093) Disputed
2 points

"Not completely, but the less socialist the better, do you really want socialized health care? If so then why? "

Let's stick with your example of sweden then, who have socialist health care. They have a higher life expectancy than the US, a lower infant mortality rate, more doctors per patient, more nurses per patient, a lower per capita expenditure on health, much lower healthcare costs as a percent of GDP, and waiting times are prioritised by the seriousness of your illness, not how much money you have and how good an insurance plan you can afford.

That real question is why wouldn't you want socialised health care? Did you know that the US is the only developed nation without a universal health care system? Did you know that even Cuba has a better level of health care than the US?

Infact, of the industrialised nations, did you know that the US comes 4th from the bottom on level of health care? It's beaten by Sweden, Norway, Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Spain, Finland, Italy, Denmark, Netherlands, Greece, Japan, Austria and New Zealand; many of those socialised health systems.

Once again, do you really not want socialised health care?

"Did they put a man on the moon? Did they invent all the stuff we did? Did they put a whole new meaning to the words "hard work"?"

Well, the first point is completely irrelevant, although they are only a country of 7 million people and have still managed to launch 10 satillites into space and be highly involved in European space missions. The second point is just as irrelevant, but I'll humour you. Sweden currently has 33523 patents lodged with the US patent office, making them the 10th most inventive country in the world on that basis. Some of their inventions include the defibrilator, seat belts, the zipper, tetra pack, amongst many other things. [source] Again, their population is 33 times smaller than the US, and doesn't have anywhere near the same patent-mad culture. The third point is probably the most irrelevant of all, and is just based on misplaced patriotism; your country doesn't work any harder than any other industrialised nation in the world. Get over yourselves.

In a list of the world's happiest countries, Sweden is at number 7. [source] I can't even find the US's placement on the list. Infact, the majority of the top ten are countries based on very socialist principles: finland, sweden, switzerland, denmark, holland, etc. Socialism isn't the horrible monster that you seem to think it is. I'd much rather take my pick of many of these countries founded on socialist principles than live in the US.

Side: he is right
2 points

It went from interesting thoughts, to self-righteous own-butt kissing American, straight to wacko conservative in the course of eleven minutes.

Side: he is right
JakeJ(3255) Disputed
1 point

Hey, feel free to add reason to your post next time. Just a helpful suggestion.

Side: he is right
xaeon(1093) Disputed
1 point

I'd be glad to. Here is my point by point analysis of why this guy is ignorant, arrogant and unknowledgable.

"Is America so awful that it needs to be destroyed from within?"

It's quite clear from this opening remark exactly where this video is heading. It's clearly going to be a conservative video attacking Obama and his policies. So, from this point, I can only judge the video on whether or not the concerns that the man raises are legitimate ones. I can instantly tell that this is going to be about socialism, and how Obama is a socialist and will destroy America. I wish people would take a few minutes out of their day to understand what socialism is and isn't. So, with the initial sentence already causing me some issues, let's see how the rest of the video turns out.

What seems like an eternity of arrogant ass kissing.

The guy has spent the vast majority of this video asking question like "are you thankful for the water coming out of your taps?" Unfortunately, I don't think this guy has ever left the country before. If he did, he'd see that all of the industrialised countries have everything that he's mentioned, as well as a few of the unindustrialised ones. This has been an extremely good waste of me time, but I'll stick with it to see where it is heading and what point it is exactly that he is going to make.

"All the wars of liberation we fought..."

What about all of the wars of opression? Should we not also mention those during this tyraid?

On the justice system: "While it is imperfect, it is the most perfect."

Again, this is baseless and factless ass-kissing. He doesn't have the authority to measure justice systems, especially from his obviously biased viewpoint. Why is it any better than the justice systems in any of the European countries? Why is it better than Canada's? Why is it better than Japan's, or Australia's? It isn't, and this is the foundation of the major beef I have with this video. The guy acts as if America is amazing and everywhere else is shit, which is clearly utter tosh.

"Economic system that rewards hard and smart work."

Unless of course you're born into wealth, in which case you don't have to work hard or smart at all. Capitalism is the very opposite of rewarding hard work. It rewards those already rich, and penalises those already poor. The rich get richer whilst the poor get poorer. Those few individuals lucky enough to break free from poverty are in the minority, and anyone who disagrees with that are sadly mistaken and place misguided faith in an unfair system. I'm not, however, against capitalism in any way. You need a good mixture of socialist and capitalist policies to make a society function in the fairest and most rewarding way.

"Allow people to obtain property and keep it."

Unless you put all of your faith into a failing economic system, as we have now. The greed of outright capitalism is its own downfall. Also, once again, you can do this in every single developed nation in the world; infact, most of them can probably do it better than America now.

"Faith in something greater than man."

I assume this is a religious comment. If so, why is that a good thing?

"Moral order, where we know right from wrong and good from bad"

Every single human is born with the ability to know this stuff. We derive our morals from both our natural ability to do so, and the society we are bought up in. Once again, this is nothing that is localised to America.

Tyraid against politicians.

What he is essentially saying here is "everything is fine, so don't touch anything." He doesn't want progression, essentially. He doesn't want the bad things changing. He doesn't want the good to get better.

What he actually wants is for a conservative government to be pushing through with reform, not a democratic one. Well, unfortunately, his side lost the election. That's democracy; something which, from his endless yacking about liberty and such, I thought he would support. The conservatives lost, and now you have to wait four years (or possibly more) to get things your way again. That's how democracy works. Get over it. As John Stewart said: "You lost. It's meant to taste like a shit taco."

"The most magnificant society man has ever created."

Can you hear that sound? It's the sound of someone blowing their own trumpet.

And this next quote is an absolute favourite of mine.

"from a man who's never accomplished anything except being elected the president."

It seems that hard and smart work only counts when it is done by someone of the same political stance as yourself. Apparently, graduating from Harvard Law School, having a successful career as a constitutional law lawyer, having three terms in the State Senate followed by terms in the US senate, also followed by becoming the first black President of the United States, as well as being a fantastic role model for stable family life (another trait Levin loved about the US), is akin to "achieving nothing" when you have a D rather than an R next to your name.

"Defective experiment that has failed time and time again whenever it has been tried."

He doesn't outright say it, but I can assume he talks (ignorantly) once again about socialism. As I keep pointing out, there are many countries around the world having great success on socialist models. Infact, a great many of them beat America on nearly every chart - health, welfare, happiness, liberty, etc. And to top it all off, Obama isn't even remotely close to being a socialist.

So there you go, that's why I hated this video. It's full of ignorance, arrogance, and outright deception. He loves liberty, but hates it when liberty deals him a bad blow. I guess the liberties he love are only great when they work in your favour.

Side: he is right
0 points

Judging by your input I do not really need to watch this video.

Side: he is right

I am grateful for all we (I) have and often think of how lucky we are to have and enjoy such things. I understand these things but I don't quite understand your point or his! Many countries have the same things as we do and should hopefully count themselves among the lucky ones but if you've meant to make a point here, I think I've missed it! One needn't be a conservative to appreciate what we have.

Side: he is right
2 points

yeah yeah yeah, America is good and all... but why the fuck do we need an 11 minute speech about it?

consider this, the people listening to this guy have to be die hard conservatives already. it's not like some anti-american dude who's listening is gonna say "oh, i guess i should be grateful".

this is just typical Conservative dribble. he didn't change shit with this and to top it all off, he made it as boring as possible. seriously, i was bored as fuck.

and then he went on to the "respect for the family" bullshit. as if gay marriage and less censorship is an attack on the family. What family? Not my family. I'll raise my kids to be worried about the real problems in the world. not about gays being able to adopt or get married, or about the fact that you can see hot chicks on TV in their bikinis.

lets face it, this was just another useless Conservative monologue.

Side: Conservative Mumbo Jumbo
1 point

He's right, we're lucky. What's your point Jake?

Ps. I liked in the end how they said his name like he was French, not Jewish.

Side: Conservative Mumbo Jumbo
JakeJ(3255) Disputed
2 points

The point was to see what everyone though about this video. Thought it might be interesting.

You always have to make personal don't you.

Side: he is right
Pineapple(1448) Disputed
3 points

I always feel like you're up to something... and it doesn't usually come from a good or educated point of view.

Side: he is right

Haha...the whole time I was watching the video I was just thinking "will someone please buy this guy a ticket to Europe." Most of the reforms people want to make here that are bing called "socialist" are significantly more conservative then the welfare states that exist in almost all western European nations.

In addition, many of the poor nations, that don't have running water or toilets, that he was referring to, got that way, not because of socialism, but because of serious exploitation by western nations in their capitalistic pursuit of wealth.

If anyone has ever wondered about the importance of history courses in our schools, please show them this video because clearly, in this particular case, our public school system has failed miserably. It's like he's living in his own little bubble that reality cannot penetrate.

Jake, for your own sake, I hope you are smarter than this. I hope that you showed us this as a joke: "haha look at this hilarious video of a crazy guy spouting nonsense." Otherwise... well I don't really want to think about that.

Side: Conservative Mumbo Jumbo
JakeJ(3255) Disputed
1 point

"Jake, for your own sake, I hope you are smarter than this. I hope that you showed us this as a joke: "haha look at this hilarious video of a crazy guy spouting nonsense." Otherwise... well I don't really want to think about that."

Yeah you're real worried about my well being aren't you. So why not try to make me look like an idiot. Because that's clearly your goal. Why do you have to be so arrogant? Just because my opinion is different than yours, I'm not smart? So that makes you a freaking genius I guess.

Otherwise what!?

I can respect that you have your own opinions. There is nothing wrong with the first three paragraphs. But the last one is just rude. Why do you have to attack me? Why can't we agree to disagree?

Side: he is right
3 points

Just because my opinion is different than yours, I'm not smart?

There's a difference between having an opinion and denying reality. I don't actually know your opinion of this guy, however if you really think he makes good points then you clearly aren't smart. That's not a matter of opinion. So don't attack me. You were the one who put up this ridiculous video, and you are the one who seems to agree with what this guy is saying. If this is not the case then please tell me now.

This man believes that socialist policies will destroy America. As I said, there are numerous examples of European nations that have government run public welfare programs that go far beyond anything being suggested for the U.S., and guess what? Running water still exists.

In addition, let's look at examples of some countries that don't enjoy our 1st world luxuries. Most of the continent of Africa has suffered tremendously because of the colonial exploitation of natural resources and, of course, slavery. All of this happened of course, under a capitalistic economic system, in which the only rules were "if it's profitable, do it." We can still see the adverse effects today in these African nations where poverty causes crime, corruption, and disease. All of this is most certainly not from socialism.

Yeah you're real worried about my well being aren't you?

I am worried about your well being, because, like me you are a citizen of the U.S. and because the U.S. is a democracy, it's governance depends its citizens be well informed. You also seem to be interested in politics, so I would not be surprised if you went onto run for some type of office. In this case, your "well being" will directly effect others, by the decisions you make.

I have laid out my arguments about why I think the way I do, and because this is an open forum for the exchange of ideas you are welcome to do the same. My issue is not so much your opinions, but the lack of reasons behind them. If your "opinions" are valid, then defend them. Prove me wrong. This is a debate site, right? Merely saying that you have a right to your opinions doesn't exempt you from criticism.

Side: Conservative Mumbo Jumbo
1 point

Well,.....

I'm glad you all hated it. Thought it might lead to an intelligent discussion... shoot me.

Side: he is right
1 point

Jake! Yes, we all said we didn't like what this guy was saying, but we gave reasons. If you agree with him, you should be able to defend his ideas. No one is stopping you from refuting their points.

I was hoping that instead of just complaining about your "right to an opinion" you would defend that opinion, and why it is legitimate.

Side: Conservative Mumbo Jumbo
JakeJ(3255) Disputed
1 point

Maybe I'm sick of being out numbered. The people that agree with me rarely ever help me out. Because they are scared. I'm not, it's just that it feels pointless after a while.

Side: he is right
1 point

That guy was so annoying!

For about 3 minutes ( as long as I could last ) all he kept saying was have you ever wondered about the chicken, the eggs, how basically EVERYTHING THERE IS is now so easy to obtain. Idk if it got more interesting but thats all I could take.

Side: Annoying