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 How do atheists rationally know fact from fiction? (56)

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Viceregent(413) pic



How do atheists rationally know fact from fiction?

Atheism (a.k.a., philosophical naturalism) is an intellectually bankrupt worldview, for is leaves its adherents with no rational way to know truth from error, fact from fiction, right from wrong and reality from delusion.  If you disagree, provide us such a method, but be warned, cross-examination is coming.  
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2 points

That's easy. They already know "facts" based on Bronze Age beliefs aren't facts, so by process of elimination they get that much closer to the truth.

Viceregent(413) Disputed
1 point

ROFL. What is a "known" fact and how do you know? And tell us how time changes the truth and how you know that?

TzarPepe(793) Disputed
1 point

Even before the bronze age, there were people who understood that God is The Supreme and Ultimate Reality.

No, beliefs aren't facts, but God is a fact. It doesn't take a technologically advanced society to figure this out.

If you recognize God, no technological miracle or magic trick is going to fool you into denying God.

Grenache(6104) Disputed
1 point

Annnnd, those visions of God pre-Bronze Age were pagan. Right? They were. With the exception of the Zoroastrians pretty much all the world was pagan and had multiple gods. The whole selling point of the Abrahamic branch of religions was their monotheism in contrast to all the polytheism.

So basically, pre-Bronze Age people told fact from fiction by their religions and they would have then said to the monotheistic start ups they were all wrong.

Deal with that.

2 points

The Bible - the goat herders guide to the galaxy.

1 point

Atheism (a.k.a., philosophical naturalism) is an intellectually bankrupt worldview, for is leaves its adherents with no rational way to know truth from error, fact from fiction, right from wrong and reality from delusion.

This is just a completely baseless claim. It is the opposite of the truth and requires no rebuttal. Many aspects of religious belief have been scientifically proven to be wildly inaccurate and hence your shrouded implication that religion is a rational way to know truth from fiction is demonstrably false.

Viceregent(413) Disputed
1 point

How ironical that this fool claims my claims are baseless, fictional with his own baseless and deluional ones. If he had any brains, he would give me his method, but instead he runs.

NumberOne(445) Disputed
2 points

How ironical that this fool claims my claims are baseless

You included no supporting evidence so the word you are looking for is "factual", not "ironical".

AlofRI(2072) Clarified
1 point

What IS ironical is that the two largest religions in this world can't agree on just WHAT is "fact", and they are willing to kill to prove THEY are right! Christian/ Islam ... them's fightin' words!

If they had any brains they'd know baseless, fictional myths are not worth fighting over .. but instead, they kill.

Rusticus(1574) Disputed Banned
1 point

Ironical isn’t a word, dumb ass.

TzarPepe(793) Disputed
1 point

Religion: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

Principle: a comprehensive and fundamental law, doctrine, or assumption

Atheists clearly hold to the assumption that God doesn't exist with ardor and faith.

Atheism is a religion, and clearly a stupid one when you accept that God means "The Supreme and Ultimate Reality".

If you don't accept this as God, you might as well just be smashing stone idols, because you aren't even talking about The God of my faith. You aren't talking about The God that is recognized by the theologians, apostles, disciples, prophets, priests, teachers, monks, pastors, scriptures, saints, etc of the religious traditions acknowledged by what according to statistics is 76.8% of the population at least profess!

Denying God is clearly an error, and it is an error undeserving of charity. There is no escaping it, denying The Supreme and Ultimate Reality is clearly an error, and when you deny God, this is what you are denying.

Atheism is a stupid position. It is wrong. The definition of atheism would be a lot more clear if it was "wrong", because that is fundamentally what it is. Atheism is "wrong", and God is

The Truth.

Let it be clearer than anything else. The Truth stands clear apart from error. The God deniers stand on no ground, for The God they deny is The Supreme and Ultimate Reality.

Denial of The Holy Spirit, The Spirit of Truth can not be forgiven. IS this clearly not cancerous? It destroys itself. It is a house divided against itself that cannot stand. A dog with rabies. A rotting corpse.

Salvation is only through Through The One True God, and this can be witnessed through The Word and The Spirit of Truth.

Be not blind, but see, and be a witness to The Glory of God Most High!

outlaw60(13103) Disputed
0 points

Little Progressive are you going to make the claim that the Muslims you Progressives love and adore have a completely baseless claim for their religion ?

Dermot(5461) Banned
1 point

It’s very easy for an atheist as they dismiss nonsense as nonsense and what believers accept as fact as in Balaam the talking Ass , a Zombie called Jesus , talking serpents , virgin births and 1,000 year old men is just proof of how thorough their brainwashing has been ...... in short you’re a brainwashed half - wit

Viceregent(413) Disputed
1 point

Mental midget, the issue is not what makes sense to your tiny mind, but what is true and what is false. Now answer the Q. Man, atheists are dumb as a box of rocks, even lacking basic reading comprehension skills.

Dermot(5461) Disputed Banned
2 points

But you are not qualified to hold forth on what makes sense as you believe in nonsense you need to read again what idiots like you believe , here you go ........It’s very easy for an atheist as they dismiss nonsense as nonsense and what believers accept as fact as in Balaam the talking Ass , a Zombie called Jesus , talking serpents , virgin births and 1,000 year old men is just proof of how thorough their brainwashing has been ...... in short you’re a brainwashed half - wit.......

TzarPepe(793) Disputed
-1 points

To believe God is to believe that there is a Supreme and Ultimate Reality.

You don't believe in God because you are wicked and trying to usurp the place of God. You will fail spectacularly, and die in your sins.

You attack created things because even you know how stupid your position is. You attack created things because they are not God. You have no argument against God that can stand, because to argue against God is foolishness, and even you know this.

Dermot(5461) Disputed Banned
0 points

To not believe in a God is to accept reality

You believe in God because you are surpestitious and trying to avoid reality .

You will fail spectacularly, and die in misery wailing for a fiction as in a god

1 point

Hello V:

Some of us need a book to tell fact from fiction.. Some of us don't.

excon

outlaw60(13103) Disputed
1 point

Super Stupid are you saying the Muslims don't know fact from fiction ?

Viceregent(413) Disputed
1 point

Moron, I did not ask you what you need, but how you know. ROFL. Another ignorant atheist pops up his head to be embarrassed.

1 point

How do you???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????/

Viceregent(413) Disputed
1 point

Don't change the subject, moron. It is irrational. Answer the Q.

Mack(535) Disputed
1 point

The point of my question was to express that the question is loaded. It seems to imply that it is clear how theists rationally know fact from fiction, it is not clear to me. To answer the question as best I can, I don't know how anybody can rationally know fact from fiction.

This is too easy, we use the scientific method and our inherited ability to have continued logical internal debates. We compartmentalize, and empathize using higher brain functions to set parameters that govern how, as conscious entities we would like to be treated, and then we allow those parameters to govern for better or worse all the encounters we have with other entities. One could call these partially learned and partially innate parameters, values. That’s why athiests are trying to tell you there is no god, because they would hope that others would have the respect to have proved their assertions with imperical evidence and sound thinking, so they might pass on truthful unbiased knowledge.

Viceregent(413) Disputed
1 point

The scientific method relies on your senses and reason. How do you know yours are valid?

.

Atheists are not honest about facts and fiction.

Today we have MILLIONS of people around the world who are dying and who have already died from sexually transmitted diseases. Millions of people are suffering in pain and agony right now this very moment and thousands of people are dying on their deathbeds this very night, this very moment / now.

Yet, the Atheist community condemns and vilifies the people of The Bible who implemented the death penalty for people who knowingly committed BLOOD CRIMES and placed others lives at risk of catching diseases, plagues, viruses, and sicknesses, at a time where there were no cures, No Treatments, No Medical Treatment or Antibiotics.

More than 1.1 million people are living with HIV/AIDS in the United States today, and more than 33 million people are living with HIV/AIDS around the world.

The Atheist Community complains about people suffering at the hands of a god in The Bible while they ignore the Millions Of People who are literally killing and infecting one another by the MILLIONS around the world every year.

Atheists are very dishonest about the God of the Bible who did not allow people to commit these blood crimes while they pretend that people are not responsible for their own actions.

Just imagine living in a world where there were absolutely no cures and medicines.

You christians claim the bible is the WORD OF GOD not us and yet there are so many contradictions any idiot could find them. How do you rationally claim that the bible is the word of god.

KJVPrewrath(955) Disputed
1 point

You have the right to your opinion. The Bible in the original Hebrew and Greek have NO contradictions. It is translatorers that mess things up.

1 point

The Bible in the original Hebrew and Greek have NO contradictions.

Except stuff like, you know, evolution.

1 point

A fact can be scientifically proven. Fiction can not.

I can prove the earth is round. I cannot prove Hogwarts is real.

TheNotorious(80) Disputed
1 point

A fact can be scientifically proven. Fiction can not.

I can prove the earth is round. I cannot prove Hogwarts is real.

Unfortunately this is not the case, and it is something liars and charlatans have been exploiting for centuries. You cannot prove anything objectively because you cannot remove the subjectivity of your own experience from the equation. The universe is objective but we as people are not. In layman's terms what that means is that you cannot prove the Earth is round for everybody else. You can only prove it is round for you.

Jace(4696) Clarified
1 point

Does your claim that the universe is objective represent an objective or subjective claim?

1 point

There is much to your question that is too vague to give a good answer. Fact from fiction is not an accurate way to describe religious ideologies. It is called faith for a reason, not that it is fiction but that there is no proof (facts) that religion is valid. One must have faith that what they have learned is true. As an atheist there is a lack in the belief of one less God than a Jew, or Muslim, and two less Gods than a Christian, ect. Why don't these Theists believe in Brahma or Vishnu even though 100's of millions of people do? It is because you have faith in the people you have learned of your God from that they are telling you the truth! Since There is no one religious belief system that incorporates more than half of the world population this means that "MOST OF THE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD ARE WRONG". That is a FACT.

1 point

You mention how atheist's tell right from wrong but there is no right or wrong as these are subjective based on what your culture has determined acceptable and not. For example most cultures are very tribal in nature due to our evolutionary roots. Murder is forbidden in our tribal community yet acceptable outside of our tribal community. Like going to war with Iraq it was okay to murder millions of people 500,000 children were killed and from a Christian point of view they were Muslims from a different land which makes it morally okay to murder them.

1 point

A Morality Test

Scenario 1 A serial killer stalks and kills 8 homosexuals

Scenario 2 A drunk man crashes into a van full of Christians and kills 8 of them

Scenario 3 A Muslim shoots and kills 8 American soldiers at a military base in the USA

Scenario 4 An American soldier shoots and kills 8 enemy soldiers in Iraq

In all cases one man killed 8 people. For the test what order from Immoral to Morally acceptable would you put these men. There are no right or wrong answers. remember start with morally the worst person. You will find that morally correct depends on culture not fact

1 point

If you care to discuss religious morality or reality these are some of my favorite topics but most people can't discuss them intellectually rather than emotionally. Since the study of Christianity is what led to my atheism I enjoy the discussions

1 point

First we must define an Atheist, as so many Theists seem to misunderstand or intentionally malign what that means. An Atheist is someone who rejects the claim that a god or gods exist. That's it. it comes with no inherent belief system, we are able to follow our own. Undoubtedly, some have come up with belief systems that are pretty silly.

However, for the sake of determining what is fact or fiction, truth or untruth, most of us are willing to have faith in the scientific method. Notice my use of the word "faith". Faith is, by definition, belief without evidence. I don't have evidence of how the earth came to be or how evolution works, because frankly, I don't care. I leave that to the scientists who are actually passionate about those things. I am secure in my faith that they are correct because they use the same scientific method as any other scientist, and unlike prayer, it works. The fact that you're reading these words despite them having been typed hundreds or thousands of miles away is proof of that, as without the same scientific method that was used to determine the theory of evolution, we would not have computers or an internet to connect them.

Getting into the subject of right versus wrong, to say that there is such a thing as morality is to say that there exists some concrete set of rules, somewhere, somehow. I have no reason to believe that such a thing exists, no reason to believe that humans are moral creatures, and certainly no reason to believe that theists of any kind are of superior morality. I act with empathy on a case by case basis, because when it comes to right and wrong, there are no concrete answers.

However! I entirely agree that we have little to rationally determine fact from fiction, that we merely do the best we can with what the electrical impulses to our various brains interpret as a breakneck trip through space on this rock floating 93,000,000 miles from a perpetual nuclear holocaust. I won't pretend I have the answers to the universe. That said, you don't either. You believe you do, but you merely have faith in a book making unverifiable claims. Maybe because it's comforting, maybe because you want to feel superior- it doesn't matter. They're an explanation to where we came from and where we're going, but I have no reason to believe that it is correct. If you do, hey, don't let me stop you.

Just keep it out of my law books.

0 points

Definition of "arbitrary" from Merriam-Webster...

1 a : existing or coming about seemingly at random or by chance or as a capricious and unreasonable act of will

b : based on or determined by individual preference or convenience rather than by necessity or the intrinsic nature of something

2 a : not restrained or limited in the exercise of power : ruling by absolute authority

b : marked by or resulting from the unrestrained and often tyrannical exercise of power

3 law : depending on individual discretion (as of a judge) and not fixed by law

0 points

The Atheist community is very dishonest about scriptures such as Deuteronomy 13 and most of the Bible,

I wonder are they are simply not being honest or they are willingly ignorant just choose to be both. I have noticed that most of the Atheists community around the world is completely ignorant as they pretend to consent to the blind, ignorantly told falsehood that The Quran commanding finding the unbelievers and kill them wherever You find them is an equivalent or the same or similar commandments of the Bible in Deuteronomy 13.

The fact is that Jesus and the prophets of Old Testament times lived at a time when many plagues, diseases, sicknesses, cancers, disorders, epidemics and incurable problems existed in the region for which there were no remedies and prescriptions. There were no cures, no treatment, no modern tools and medicines at the Time Of Bible Days.

In the bible, they did not have medical treatments. Risky, knowing disease spreading and murdering behaving people had to be removed from society, especially if they were a danger to your family, sons and daughters and children and wives. There were risks of infection spreading to the food and water supplies. There were no hospitals, doctors or any antibacterial treatments. If the risky behaving people continue on and on to come near Your Family and city, endangering their lives! - You must take necessary action that prevents them from causing the disease to be spread to Your family and loved ones and also prevent the diseases from spreading to unsuspecting unknowing innocent children and other victims and families. The prophets and wise, godly men found that the best way is to be safe. Once You catch a Virus, Germ, Disease, Infection or anything - You are finished. You are { Done }. - Your family and all others who You come into contact with are also doomed to suffer a life of horrible agony, suffering, and horrible pain - dying slowly from a plague or a disease or a virus or symptom.

Atheists disregard all of these facts. But in the Bible, there were no cures, nothing but a lifetime of suffering and agony, living in horrible pain.

I have read the Bible and The Quran and I look and see so many Atheists going around telling lies about the Bible and using the Quran to attack the Bible using Old Testament stories and passages and inventing a false narrative as they distort and completely change the story.

Atheists often ignore the entire picture of the passages and the sequence of events and the whole situations and historical environmental realities and they retell the Old Testament stories and verses of The Bible, adding untruths about what they say while they greatly subtract many important details of the passages.

For eXample many Atheists throw up alarms and great shock and hystericals about the stories of God commanding the Israelites to slaughter and kill whole cities of women and children. But the Atheists never mention the fact that the Israelites had been in a war with these people and were surrounded and outnumbered by neighboring cities and civilizations who were terrorizing and attacking the Israelites, from the time of Abraham, down to King Saul here in Deu 25.

Deu 25:17 Remember what Amalek did unto thee by the way, when ye were come forth out of Egypt; :18 How he met thee by the way and smote the hindmost of thee, even all that were feeble behind thee when thou wast faint and weary.

The Amelikites and other surrounding NATIONS were terrorists and here Deu 12 and 13 they also were at war with the Jews. The Deu 12 and 13 warns that the Jews Take heed and not be snared by following them because they commit every abomination to the LORD.

These abominations were committing BLOOD CRIMEs that were spreading sickness to innocent victims.

The Bible explains all of this is precise details, yet Atheists pretend that they are confused between the Quran and the Bible. Atheists pretend that The entire book of Deuteronomy and Leviticus has not explained every single one of the details of the violent, evil behaviors of the neighbors of the Israelites who were allied against Israel and attacking them ...... for even their sons and their daughters, they have burnt in the fire to their gods. .... Lev 18:3 ... ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, do not walk in their ordinances. Lev 18:7 INCEST - causing blood problems. - Lev 18:20 Adultery - causing blood problems. - Lev 18:21 BURNING Children in a fire. Lev 18:22 HOMOSEXUALITY - causing blood problems. Lev 18:23 BEASTALITY - causing blood problems. Lev 18:25 And the land is defiled afflicted and raped.

The Hebrew word defiled here means literally affliction, torment, and rape. .......... So we have multiple cities of terrorists who are serving another god who commands and expects that they torture little children by killing and burning them in the fire to appease their gods. These people serving other gods do nothing but evil, violence and they defile, rape and terrorize everything around them - burning their little children in the fire, they are committing incest, bestiality, homosexuality and are filled with disease, danger, violence, and terrorists whose entire cities are filled with people who are committed to destroying and raping and exterminating their neighbor. { Israel. }

If Atheists would look and see what The United States had to do when hit hard with massive attacks such as in WW ll - They would find that America killed millions of woman and children far exceeding any women and children that the Israelites were also forced to kill. Many Atheists who are dishonest or ignorant about the Bible mentioning this fact, through inversion Atheists always leave all of these verses out of the story and pretend that the Israelites themselves were the terrorists and were serving a terrorist ideology and God. When it is nothing but the total and complete opposite. Many Atheists in effect are siding with the terrorists.

The Amalekites and other evil cities were filled with disease, germs, sickness, bestiality, homosexuality, child / murder sacrifice by heat and fire to the other gods.

Their entire eXistance revolved around raising their own children to make eternal, perpetual never-ending war and an absolute violent terroristic extermination campaign upon the Israelites. Killing the women and children was the last resort and only solution that the Israelites had after 400 years of being attacked, terrorized, assailed and physically, violently assaulted by these Amalekites and their surrounding neighbors.

The Bible explains all that the Amalekites and their neighbors had done and who they were and why The Israelites were forced to completely end their reign of terror that had lasted for 500 years of nothing but attacks and violence upon the Israelites as these enemies determined to eXterminate them and destroy them. This defense was the only possible chance of survival that the Israelites had as they were surrounded and attacked from all sides and greatly, greatly outnumbered by the most violent, brutal, evil, perverted and cruel people that have ever been known to have existed.

The Bible clarifies how that the Israelites were attacked without mercy by all of their neighbors. If Atheists can also acknowledge that the Israelites were up against the entire forces of the Middle East and greatly, greatly massively outnumbered and surrounded, as they were attacked them from the rear and their weak and old and sick and their women and children were being slaughtered. The war against entire cities whose children and populations and civilizations were raised, trained and programmed to do nothing but attack and kill the Israelites created no other choice but to survive and destroying entire cities women and children of their enemies was the only way to survive and for their own Israeli children to have a future. The Bible is very, very clear. Their NEIGHBORS / enemies outnumbered them and were determined to exterminating them. The only choice that the Israelites had was to eXterminate them before they themselves were exterminated. The United States also, in its effort to survive and save lives of Americans also was forced to bomb entire cities, killing millions of civilians.

Deceiving Atheists simply have no scriptures or facts for their faith and claims. I also believe that Islam as a religion is incapable of understanding or identifying with these facts because Muslims nor Mohammad are physical descendants of Abraham. But rather the descendants of all of the surrounding neighbors of the Israelites.

Would My Atheists friends be willing to wipe out a whole city whose inhabitants were spreading diseases, plagues, viruses and uncleanness and burning and torturing little children in the fire to serve their demented fire god?

Would My Atheists friends be willing to wipe out a whole city whose inhabitants were into bestiality, incest and other dangerous acts of bloody violence, rape, bloodshed whereby their entire existence and culture and childbearing and society revolved and was centered around exterminating and violently wiping out the Atheist community with violence and bloodshed ? especially if surrounded and constantly attacked from all sides generation after generation after generation with no way to survive unless You completely must wipe out Your neighbors before they completly destroy your civilization and childrens lives..

To the Jews, serving the other gods represented all of the other neighboring nations who were constantly attacking and endangering and seeking to exterminate the Jewish people. The fact that the serving other gods meant and included committing acts that caused the diseases, plagues, viruses, infection, illness, and sickness that wiped out thousands of innocent victims at a time. The Bible places the Deuteronomy and Leviticus scriptures in this context, however, Atheists refuse and fail to show this context in the Quran. As the Scriptures details and explains the expectation of the god of the Bible and the expectation of the other gods and exactly why the Jews were not permitted to infect others with these diseases and murder and burn their children in fire and commit bestiality, incest, homosexuality and unclean unsanitary practices that were killing the servants of the other gods. Atheists do not find any of this { the Deuteronomy and Leviticus } in the Quran. Yet as Atheists pretend to use the god of the Quran to destroy the god of the bible they only follow their own god that is the most self-destructive and ignorant deity that they can possibly image or conjure up while pretending it is fact and reality.

The Bible honestly laid out the facts of the realities of BLOOD CRIMES and diseases and plagues and the dangers of beastality, homosexuality and murder and torture of little children and violence against innocent and it simply declared this was the only LAW / GOD that was allowed to be served. All actions that broke these laws were equated to serving another god that always allowed this destructive deadly dangerous behavior.