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Debate Info

17
19
Free high school for all Something else
Debate Score:36
Arguments:36
Total Votes:42
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 Free high school for all (13)
 
 Something else (11)

Debate Creator

Amarel(4969) pic



How do you fix our broken public education system?

Government spending on primary and secondary education is always increasing while student achievement is stagnant at best. What do you suggest?

Free high school for all

Side Score: 17
VS.

Something else

Side Score: 19
3 points

There is no basis in fact to conclude the American pubic school system is broken.

[It] may be broke but that's because the capitalists who run America don't want to pay for it.

Just as the capitalists don't want to pay for anything. The capitalist doesn't want to pay taxes and doesn't want to pay you.

Slaves had jobs, didn't do therm much good.

Side: Free high school for all
Amarel(4969) Clarified
2 points

There is no basis in fact to conclude the American pubic school system is broken.

US students lag behind the academic achievements of their peers in other countries.

[It] may be broke but that's because the capitalists who run America don't want to pay for it.

The US spends more on public (free) education than other developed nations.

Just as the capitalists don't want to pay for anything.

When a capitalist can afford it, they tend to pay extra to improve their children's education.

The capitalist doesn't want to pay taxes

No one wants to pay taxes.

and doesn't want to pay you.

Then it's a good thing they choose to voluntarily bind themselves via contract to an agreed upon payment scheme.

Slaves had jobs, didn't do therm much good.

Well, they weren't paid for their jobs and they didn't have a choice. That's what makes it slavery. Also, they weren't educated at all.

So just to bring it back on track, we pay more than other countries and perform less. That's what I meant by "broken". How would you fix it?

Side: Free high school for all
1 point

US students lag behind the academic achievements of their peers in other countries.

What do you think this is?

Side: Free high school for all
Pedestrian(154) Disputed
1 point

We still get strikes, teachers with 2 or 3 jobs that 'don't do them much good.'

The school system is much less broken than our healthcare system which cost lives and shorten them compared to other countries.

Pay the right people...the teachers and hire more to reduce class size and we already know that and far too many other hands held-out...are in the way.

The above just isn't going to happen.

Side: Something else
1 point

I certainly wouldn't suggest turning education over to capitalists that want to teach their own agenda in their own schools. I trust elected officials over the quest for money and obedience by thought control ANY day. At least we can vote them out, eventually, if they appear to be "guiding" a bit strongly … like the current capitalist that is ruining the education system! (If we vote with "intelligence" that is!)

Side: Free high school for all
Amarel(4969) Clarified
1 point

I certainly wouldn't suggest turning education over to capitalists that want to teach their own agenda in their own schools.

You prefer the government's agenda. Are you against school choice (voucher programs)?

I trust elected officials over the quest for money and obedience by thought control ANY day.

Profit seeking means producing something that consumers will want to buy more than the competition. That means profit seekers have a financial incentive to increase quality at reduced cost. Elected officials have financial incentives too, but they aren't driven by consumer demand. Which is to say a public official does not have financial incentive to provide the what you would actually want to buy. Meanwhile, school unions make it very difficult to fire bad educators, parent's get arrested for taking their kids to the "wrong" district, teachers teach for the test rather than the education, more money is spent than anywhere else, and a lower quality product is the result.

At least we can vote them out, eventually, if they appear to be "guiding" a bit strongly

If you don't like your public school, you cannot simply take your kid to the next public school. You cannot choose the best teacher for the job. You cannot do anything at all other than re-educate your kid when they come home at night.

like the current capitalist that is ruining the education system!

The current education system is free for everyone. That's not a profit seeking model. It's not capitalist in the slightest.

Side: Free high school for all
AlofRI(2737) Clarified
1 point

Obviously, I have more trust in democracy and our government (not necessarily at the moment), but in its future. I do not trust the corporate sponsored schools, I am for more funding of public schools. If Corporations want to invest in education, they should invest in the schools we have, or need.

The Koch's, for instance, have invested in certain universities and tried to set the curriculum to their own liking. I don't really know if they were successful, but I don't like it. Our national education policies need work, not agendas.

Side: Free high school for all
outlaw60(14928) Disputed Banned
1 point

Look the STUPID PARTY PAWN thinks capitalist run the education system but the idiot had nothing to say about IT when it's PET AFRICAN was president !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Side: Something else
2 points

How do you fix our broken public education system?

They have no intention on fixing it, as the purpose is already being served--drain the human spirit of passion, hammer in obedience, fear of authority, priming people to live in the Mammal Snow Glob World (concept discussed in previous posts), among other things.

Side: Something else
Amarel(4969) Clarified
1 point

They have no intention on fixing it*

Who is "they"?

as the purpose is already being served--drain the human spirit of passion, hammer in obedience, fear of authority, priming people to live in the Mammal Snow Glob World

Is that the purpose of education everywhere or just in the US?

Side: Free high school for all
Mint_tea(3993) Clarified
1 point

By any chance have you heard George Carlin's take on it? It sounds much like what you are saying.

Side: Free high school for all
1 point

In the short term I think the best option is to remove the mindset that all kids are the same. This nonsense of giving award trophies to mediocre students so they don't feel bad is just ridiculous. Forcing teachers to stop giving zero's and F's to students that don't turn their homework in just sets the kid up for failure in the future when they go into the business world and realize no one gives a damn who they are, they will be fired if they don't do their job.

Kids who need additional help with a course should get it and students who fly though it with great grades shouldn't be help back because other's need to catch up. Classes need to be smaller with one teacher per....let's say 15 max kids and each kid needs a lesson plan that helps them specifically.

Side: Something else
Amarel(4969) Clarified
1 point

In the short term I think the best option is to remove the mindset that all kids are the same.

Agreed. Education should be handled as much as possible on the most local level, with parents having as much say in the matter as possible. No one is going to care about your kids more than you.

This nonsense of giving award trophies to mediocre students so they don't feel bad is just ridiculous.

Isn't it strange that such highly educated people can put the cart before the horse in such an absurd manner?

Kids who need additional help with a course should get it and students who fly though it with great grades shouldn't be help back because other's need to catch up.

I think this is something that schools try to do as it is, no?

Classes need to be smaller with one teacher per....let's say 15 max kids

I have to push back on this a little bit. Studies have provided mixed results on the effects class size has on achievement. I expect that's because of multiple other unaccounted for variables, such as subject matter, school culture, and student culture. Making a sweeping rule, such as 15 max, is almost like making the mistake of thinking that all students, schools, or classrooms are the same. I believe that enabling decisions to be made as locally as possible will strike a better balance on class size, which will not be uniform.

What are your thoughts on school vouchers (school choice)?

Thank you for providing the most relevant response to the topic. You get the award for best response. Everyone else gets a participation award. I hope they know better than to put it on their fridge.

Side: Free high school for all
Mint_tea(3993) Clarified
1 point

Making a sweeping rule, such as 15 max, is almost like making the mistake of thinking that all students, schools, or classrooms are the same.

The only reason why I would argue for a reduced size is to give each student their own lesson plan. With reduced size the teacher can focus on each kid individually instead of trying to make sure each and every kid is on the same page all the time and either loosing more gifted kids to boredom or loosing kids who are struggling. With a larger classroom it would make it more difficult for the teacher to help.

What are your thoughts on school vouchers (school choice)?

That's a tough one. From personal experience while I'm not sure I'd use it, I like the idea. With my daughter we worry about public schools really helping her with her studies since she has Autism. She's smart as a button in math but with English and speech she falls behind. Right now we have a fantastic school but when we move we are taking a chance that the new school system would be just as good as the current one. To have an option of choosing the school is not only very relieving but very beneficial to us. I haven't given it enough thought as to why it would be bad.

Side: Free high school for all
Amarel(4969) Clarified
1 point

I forgot to mention the role that parents and students play in all of this. There seems to be a disturbing trend wherein parents side with their children to gang up on teachers, rather than parents siding with teachers to discipline and education children.

Side: Free high school for all
1 point

Out of 23 children who need a specialized computer program to help them keep up in school, only my daughter and two other children are taking advantage of it. That means there are 20 students falling behind whose parents aren't doing their part to help their child. That actually makes me fairly angry, not only for the kid but for the fact that those parents are probably going to be putting all blame on the school for their kid falling behind.

Parent first, Friend later.

Side: Something else
outlaw60(14928) Disputed Banned
1 point

What does this nonsense mean LMMFAO !!!!!!!!!

Kids who need additional help with a course should get it and students who fly though it with great grades shouldn't be help back because other's need to catch up.

Side: Free high school for all
1 point

How do you fix our broken public education system?

Hello A:

When lefty's ran things, we thought INVESTING in education was good.. When the righty's took over, they thought education was an EXPENSE..

If THAT'S how you view education, you're gonna wind up with some really DUMB people.. And, that's what we've got..

excon

Side: Something else
Amarel(4969) Clarified
1 point

If THAT'S how you view education, you're gonna wind up with some really DUMB people.. And, that's what we've got..

Public education is free. The US spends more on public education than the other developed countries. And yes, we have some really dumb people as our educational achievement lags behind other nations. It would fix anything to label expenditures an investment rather than an expense. How would you change the current broken system?

Side: Free high school for all
excon(12713) Clarified
1 point

It would fix anything to label expenditures an investment rather than an expense. How would you change the current broken system?

Hello A:

I agree.. It's NOT about how much money we spend.. It's HOW we spend it.. I was pointing out the distinction between an investment, and an expense.. I CHERISH my investments... I try to REDUCE my expenses..

excon

Side: Free high school for all
outlaw60(14928) Disputed Banned
1 point

According to SUPER STUPID now the LEFTY'S are not running public education !!!!

ROTFFLMMFAO !!!!!!! You are an IDIOT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Side: Free high school for all
1 point

It is worth noting, "education" is an intentional misnomer in-it-of-itself--propaganda designed to get the public to willing ingest poison as though it were medicine.

Side: Something else
Amarel(4969) Clarified
1 point

It is worth noting, "education" is an intentional misnomer in-it-of-itself--propaganda designed to get the public to willing ingest poison as though it were medicine.

When we have international comparative statistics for educational achievement, are they actually just looking at who is doing a better job of poisoning the population?

What would education be if it were not a misnomer?

Side: Free high school for all