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Debate Info

53
61
For Against
Debate Score:114
Arguments:55
Total Votes:184
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 For (24)
 
 Against (31)

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politico(75) pic



ISRAEL?

For

Side Score: 53
VS.

Against

Side Score: 61
5 points

Modern democracy located in the middle of the Middle East. Hard to beat that.

Side: For
Godspeed(2) Disputed
2 points

And that's why Lebanon, Iraq and Turkey are just as important as Israel. It's also hard to become a democracy in the Middle East, as that silly CIA is always toppling your government.

Side: Against
politico(75) Disputed
1 point

Right, and by virtue of the Israel Lobby right here in America, our own 'modern democracy' is not so democratic anymore because of the Lobby's stranglehold on Congress and boycotts/blacklisting activities toward anyone critical of Israel.

Why should the United States care SO MUCH about this so-called 'modern democracy' in the Middle East? Does the U.S. support every democracy in the world, or does it support dictatorships, too?

Side: Against
iamdavidh(4856) Disputed
1 point

Okay, they have a powerful lobby.

Pretend for a second Israel didn't have a solid ally in the U.S.

How long would it take for religious fanatics to try to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent Israelies under the banner of some long dead prophet who preached peace?

I say try because Israel kicks ass.

So then, I put it back on you. It's obvious why the U.S. would want any ally in the middle east. What would be your end goal of Israel not being an ally?

Would you like to see the entire middle east fall to misguided over-zealous religious nuts?

Side: For
Liesbgone(4) Disputed
1 point

Hamas won elections in Gaza and the West Bank. The Iraqi elections resulted in religious parties dominating the government some of considered by the US to be affiliated to terrorist groups. Hezbollah has MPs in Lebanon. Iran carries out a voting system.

Modern democracy entails respect for human rights and the rule of law. Israel has not respected the human rights of the Palestinians. Look at the UN and Red Cross assessments of the Gaza blockade and current attacks. The Palestinians in Fatah controlled West Bank are treated no better. As for the rule of law, Israel has decided to ignore the recent UN resolution for a ceasefire not to mention countless others. Just recently, 2 Arab parties were banned from the election. The way Israeli settlers are allowed to abuse and determine the actions of the Palestinians underscores this point.

In effect modern democracy is denied to the people in the Middle East if they vote for a party not favourable to US interests. While at the same time the very values inherent in modern democracy are undermined by giving Israel free reign in the region. It is now harder to define what democracy is and means.

Side: Against
2 points

It's a piece of land. It's dirt. 3 psychotic groups of people believe their psychotic beliefs originated on that dirt. All the prophets are long dead. There's no evidence that that piece of dirt is any better or worse than any other piece of dirt.

Yet psychotic people are willing to kill other people over some dirt.

The fact is a bunch of people are alive and living now, there.

We know they exist, we don't need to read made up words on pages to know that.

And so, the Christian/Muslim/Jewish thing to do - the thing that all three psychotic beliefs say people should do, is live and let live.

Yet, these psychotics still want to kill eachother. Amen.

Well. As human beings, we should try and protect other human beings from crazy human beings, even if the human beings we're protecting are they themselves crazy.

Side: For
politico(75) Disputed
2 points

Once again, this was never a conflict about religion. It was about the fact that the Israelis forced the Palestinians out of their own homes and off their own land, and then turned around and offered them a second-class citizenship if they wanted to be treated as such, but the catch is that they don't get their homes back, finders (stealers) keepers!

Side: Against
iamdavidh(4856) Disputed
1 point

Alright, see other reply. I answered that too.

Side: For
1 point

As a completely democratic state that ensures equality for its citizens, in addition to the legal and historical basis for a Jewish state in the Middle East, Israel must be permitted to exist and indeed thrive. Anybody watching a faintly trustworthy news organization would notice that the only military action taken by Israel in past decades has been either in retaliation for attacks by terrorist organizations or with the knowledge that there is an imminent threat. Hamas and Hezbollah both perpetrate continuous attacks against innocent Israelis. Consider the continued rocket attacks launched by Hamas operatives against Israel. Israel must be allowed to respond to these attacks with force to ensure its people's safety.

Side: For
0 points

I'm for Israel its the birth place of three religions and we need to fight for peace at the holy land.

Side: For
0 points

This situation just sucks. No easy answer. Yes, I guess the Palestinians were "driven out" but the Israelis were too. It's just an I was here first situation. Then in the 40's Britain "gave" the land to Israel and then armed Palestine. Really almost everything that was done here by any party has been bad.

If we don't protect Israel, however, someone is going to wipe them off the map. Lots of people want it. In fact, the fact that "everyone hates the US" and they blame Bush is really because of our support of Israel.

The honest solution: Can't they both live there together! I know, crazy. I wish it wasn't crazy though.

Side: For
politico(75) Disputed
1 point

I wish it were that easy. Unfortunately, even if the Israelis really do begin trying for peace (which has actually never been on their agenda), the Arabs will never ever forgive them. But at least Israel could make a step in the right direction by suspending its god damn settlement program. It's hard to argue that it was an 'I was here first situation', because the Israelis have NEVER stopped trying to push the rightful inhabitants of that land out. Then they turn around and try to say 'hey look, we are the victims of Arab violence' whaaa whaaa whaaaa... its mind-boggling that more people don't understand the situation.

At least you acknowledge the amazing fact that Israel has done bad things, that piece of truth is damn elusive thanks to fanatics and the Israel lobby.

Side: Against
tallblondguy(64) Disputed
3 points

You're exactly right here, it isn't that easy, in any way shape or form. And unfortunately no one is innocent of all wrongdoing, including us (US for me). Growing up my family used to discuss all of this over dinner, and whenever one position was losing, my mother would switch sides. It confused me at the time, but she told me it was because no one side has all the truth, and there are no easy answers. I believe that's true and you are right, not enough people will acknowledge that.

Side: For
-1 points

I believe in God so yes I will support Israel in anything that they do.

Side: For
Liesbgone(4) Disputed
1 point

If you believe in God then you must want to make sure God's commandments are enacted on earth especially those promoting what is good and right. To unconditionally support Israel undermines your belief in God because you support anything Israel does even if it goes against what God has told you to do. If you support Israel because you believe they have a record of doing everything that God wants to achieve then the god you believe in must be indifferent to human suffering, death and injustice. I do not know of any religion which promotes these values. In fact I think most religions encourage their believers to act against these forces.

Side: Against
3 points

It is worth remebering that, when Israel and the USA call Hamas terrorist, we should remeber Israel was a terrorist organisation,in fact as I remember killed english soldiers, and still has aspects of terrorism within its government.

Through terrorism, they forced the world to give them other peoples land, and now, that very Country of Israel , has again started a new terrorist action to achieve the complete seizure of ALL palistinian lands. The excuse of hamas rockets is really a cover,and is only a result of Israel trying to frustrate the Palistinian people.The true aim is to go in and complete the forcing of all palistinians out of palastine. That is what they hope to achieve by getting Egypt to open the borders, in order that Palastinians will flee to Egypt , which is why the Egyptian government is resisting the opening of borders, as they can see israels true intentions.

In times of a financial crisis around the world, we need to remember to Boycott All Companies with ties in Israel, and the USA. Nothing like loss of cash focus minds more on peace and away from agression.

Side: Against
2 points

The founding members of Israel used terrorism to gain a state. Now Israel claims it is an example of democracy in the Middle East. The US has hailed Iraq as an example of Arab democracy. Iraq is in reality dominated by religious groups, some affiliated to groups the US considers terrorists. The Palestinians had an election (it was accepted to be free and fair) and the majority of the population in the West Bank voted for Hamas.

The US refused to recognise the results and encouraged other nations to isolate them. Fatah (an opposition faction) members trained in Jordan and sponsored by the US tried to over throw the Hamas government in Gaza. They failed and Hamas unilaterally took control. Fatah responded by appointing their members to government positions (in effect setting up two governments).

Israel responded with a siege on the Gaza strip (controlling all the borders, sea and air space) and limiting vital supplies. Israel claims that Hamas is a terrorist organisation and is not a negotiating partner. Members of parliament who are Hamas members are in Israeli jails with no charges. It prefers to work with Abbas (the president and member of Fatah). Fatah controls the West Bank. Palestinians in the West Bank are not able to protest in support of Hamas. The West Bank still sees the building of the Israeli separation wall, continuing settlements, incursions and check points.

The people of Gaza and their democratically elected government are now under bombardment. The argument for Israel based on democracy fails because the Palestinians have also elected a government which is not recognised. The argument for Israel based on its fight against terrorism in the region fails because it used terror to establish itself and arguably the actions being committed against the Palestinians could be described as terror and even genocide. In Israel your rights are determined by your race. Arabs within Israel lack the same rights as Jews (recently two Arab parties were prevented from running in the upcoming elections for expressing opposition to the Gaza attacks) and outside of it.

Side: Against
1 point

Israel is an attempt for the hardcore Christians to witness "the second coming of christ". One must wonder whether all the violence and corruption is worth it

Side: Against
1 point

very easy because some jewishes admit that jewishes must live homeless and scattered . it is all benifits for some jewish over others

Side: Against
1 point

for one the American government supplied israelis (they dont deserve to be capitalized) with money and weapons. This all started because America wanted someone to be Allies with in the Middle East. israel would be nothing without the british and america and Hamas is just another cover up for bombing children and innocent people. Hamas is a political party which was elected into government dont believe what the media has to say. israel is one of the reasons why were in a economic crises and its the reason for 9/11. Palestinians were there before the isrealies.

Side: Against
-3 points
joelsk44039(1) Disputed
0 points

This is an outright lie. In "fact," there has been no genocide committed by the Israelis in 1948 or any other time over the past 60 years. However, if left without their defences, the Arabs, including the so-called "Palestinians" would have murdered every last Israeli man, woman and child. The Arabs have been commiting limited genocide against Israel and the world turns its head the other way.

Side: For
altarion(1955) Disputed
-2 points
politico(75) Disputed
2 points

Actually, I was raised as a Catholic, and my parents are still "practicing" Christians. I converted last year because I married a Muslim, but I have been studying the history of the conflict far longer than I have even known my husband.

Could you elaborate a little on what you mean by "the Palestinians have been committing much worse crimes ever since the Israelites first established the Jewish state"?

Also, I am not falsely accusing Israelis of anything. I am sympathetic to their history, but in no way does that justify what they did and are still doing to the Palestinians.

Side: Against
funkyfrog199(45) Disputed
2 points

Whatever happened in the past might not even be true. I am not in favor of Isreal or Plaestine because I feel this is totallyl wrong..!!! Isreal should still stop attaking Palestine

Side: Against