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97
73
Men Are Not Men Are
Debate Score:170
Arguments:93
Total Votes:194
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 Men Are Not (44)
 
 Men Are (37)

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Harvard(659) pic



I Don't Understand Feminists... Men Are Dominant.

 

 

 

Women psychologically and physically can never match the dominance of a men. Now I am not attempting to disempower women, I just scratch my head to so many feminist who cannot rap their head around why it is that it is mostly men that have positions of power, and why it is that it is men who have most of the aggressive sports, etc.

 

It seems that they cannot appreciate the evolution of mankind. Perhaps, if we were hyenas, the social system would be quite different, but male humans have evolved to be dominant, again, both psychologically and physically. Males brains are even (anatomically) 13% BIGGER than a female brain, which is significant in terms of psychology. So why do feminist ignore they scientifically proved evidence of men being dominant?

Men Are Not

Side Score: 97
VS.

Men Are

Side Score: 73

Less women are in positions of power because in earlier society, men were more likely to work, and now there is a culture that is resistant to hiring and promoting women. Women typically have to work at least twice as hard to gain the same promotion as a man - and they tend to work longer hours and take less sick days. Women are more likely to go to college, more likely to hold higher degrees, more practiced at multitasking, have a higher average IQ, are typically more creative (which has been noted to have a greater effect on future success than IQ anyway), and yet from the time we are born, we are socially conditioned to become wives, mothers - to avoid the STEM fields and other male-dominated industries, and to work in "women's" fields, such as teaching or nursing. Plus, men tend to interact primarily with and help other men in companies, leaving female coworkers in the cold.

On top of that, women still handle the majority of child-rearing and housework, so we have more responsibilities that may prevent us from pushing our way up the ranks.

Additionally, when looking at entrepreneurship, women face sexual harassment issues, especially when seeking investors. Since we would be blamed for our own rape or molestation, it behooves us to avoid situations where we could possibly be seen to have instigated an attack. Plus, most people feel women are weaker intelligently, despite opposing evidence, and don't want to put their money in a company run by women.

I will grant you women have a natural tendency to be somewhat weaker, because in women, the body converts nutrients to fat in case of future reproduction at which time such stores will be beneficial, while in men, the body converts nutrients to muscle to fight off predators in defense of the pregnant woman, but this is only one factor to strength. By working out and lifting weights, women have the potential to be just as strong as men, but typically are discouraged from such activity by society. However, I promise, I could kick your butt in a fight.

Biologically, men have become dominant because by being dominant, they could control female sexuality, and minimize the risk of raising another man's child. However, societally, we should and mostly have moved past this, and in light of that, women are not subordinate.

Additionally, religion has been used for centuries to oppress women. The "Adam and Eve" myth, the "women are subject to their husband's will" thing, religion has been telling women that if they don't submit to their husband, they are going to hell (or whatever equivalent). Women were raised, basically brainwashed into faiths that were telling them they had no choice in their own life. So feminism has just helped them take back the control they should always have had.

And seriously, you don't understand why a woman would want to not be blamed for her own rape? Or be paid the equivalent of men? And feminism benefits men as well - it allows men to express their feelings, thereby lowering health issues from stress and minimizing depression rates. It supports men entering into any career they so choose, just as much as women should be able to. It promotes fathers taking care of their children and not being considered a pervert for being at the park with their kid during the day. The feminist movement supports the LGBT movement.

Side: Men Are Not
2 points

You said it all and I agree with all you said. I'm so glad to see younger women still supporting equality.

Side: Men Are Not
5 points

But that doesn't really make sense now does it?

Side: Men Are
5 points

But that doesn't really make sense now does it?

Side: Men Are
5 points

But that doesn't really make sense now does it?

Side: Men Are
5 points

But that doesn't really make sense now does it?

Side: Men Are
5 points

But that doesn't really make sense now does it?

Side: Men Are
Harvard(659) Disputed
1 point

You, as with most feminist, negate the evolutionary factors that led to such a societal construct. And you negate the psychological factors that would cause for men to be put in positions of higher power. Women are different decision makers than men, and it just so happens that the fields in which men make the best positions are powerful fields (such as business).

Women are more likely to go to college, more likely to hold higher degrees, more practiced at multitasking

Though it's quite funny that men are the ones in the highest positions- I say this because your 'degree' has nothing to do with your intelligence. Any woman can remember a bunch of facts and get high score on a test, but to actually intellectualize the data you're assessing takes a certain mentality- and I am not saying that only men are intellects, though most intellectual (not powerful) positions (science, philosophy) are also mainly held by men... why do you think that is?

Also, why is that most self-made millionaires and billionaires are men? This has nothing to do with society (hence "self-made").

You see the distinct mentality in children. Boys are more mechanical and are more inquisitive about puzzles, girls like pretty things such as colorful dolls (there is also a correlation with women liking the color pink).

You seem to negate the fact entirely that males are more dominant than women- which is a feminist extremist view that is entirely irrational. Men are indeed more dominant, and always have been.

Plus, most people feel women are weaker intelligently, despite opposing evidence, and don't want to put their money in a company run by women.

Women make a lot of decisions based on emotion (whether it be subconscious or not). That being the case, it's quite hard to trust someone with loads of money that may make a terrible decision one day because she's feeling like a whale because she feels her husband doesn't look at her the same.

Also, why do you think women are mainly in nursing and teaching fields? It could be the case that their evolutionary instincts renders them more fit for such field (they have instincts for childcare which would include medically attending to their wounded child (in a way in which they would see best fit), and since women are designed to raise the child, teaching would have to be an essential skill to have.

Biologically, men have become dominant because by being dominant, they could control female sexuality, and minimize the risk of raising another man's child. However, societally, we should and mostly have moved past this, and in light of that, women are not subordinate.

Is this a prime illustration of women's ability to reason? Perhaps your emotions deluded your reasoning?

If it is a biopsychological reason for a trait... how would you expect society to just bypass such a trait? This is tantamount to telling homosexuals to stop being gay because society deems it inappropriate.

Lastly, most women like being less dominant. They openly admit to wanting a husband that makes more than them, they want men older than them, they're attracted to men who have a dominant social status, etc. Why do you think there is a stigma for middle school jocks and geeks? The jocks get more girls simply because they express dominance (sociologically and physiologically). But in college (respectable ones), the smarter guys get more girls because this dominant trait becomes more apparent, as they will typically have more money which the aforementioned trait is more attractive to women.

Side: Men Are
2 points

there is also a correlation with women liking the color pink).

I just want to start with this point, because while so much of your post proved that you had no science or, you know, sense, backing you up, this one is just glaring. The distinct mentality that girls like different things, as evidenced by them liking pink, is a load of crap. Up until WW2, blue was considered to be a girly color, while pink was masculine. Only reason that changed was Hitler. If you provide a girl with a typically boy toy and a typically girl toy, but don't provide any pressure on which one she chooses, it can go either way

why is that most self-made millionaires and billionaires are men? This has nothing to do with society (hence "self-made").

So not only do you not understand sex, gender, and biology, but you also don't understand business. Self-made means a company you created, it doesn't not mean society had no effect on you. Unless you are independently wealthy to begin with, most businesses, especially those that will rake in millions, have investors. Investors, in the current US society, dislike working with women and do like sexually harassing them. As I said in my first post.

Women are different decision makers than men, and it just so happens that the fields in which men make the best positions are powerful fields (such as business).

This is a load of bull.

You seem to negate the fact entirely that males are more dominant than women- which is a feminist extremist view that is entirely irrational. Men are indeed more dominant, and always have been.

Of course I negate it. It's not a fact, and it's not true.

Is this a prime illustration of women's ability to reason? Perhaps your emotions deluded your reasoning?

Really? Science isn't good enough for you? In society today, we have the choice on whether or not to reproduce. Many people have multiple sex partners, in many cases, multiple spouses over the course of their lives, and divorced or widowed people often remarry, even when kids are involved. Society has already bypassed that trait. It's actually opposite to telling homosexuals to stop being gay, because it's saying do what's best for you.

Side: Men Are Not
Atrag(5443) Disputed
2 points

Women are different decision makers than men, and it just so happens that the fields in which men make the best positions are powerful fields (such as business).

Citation needed.

Though it's quite funny that men are the ones in the highest positions- I say this because your 'degree' has nothing to do with your intelligence. Any woman can remember a bunch of facts and get high score on a test, but to actually intellectualize the data you're assessing takes a certain mentality- and I am not saying that only men are intellects, though most intellectual (not powerful) positions (science, philosophy) are also mainly held by men... why do you think that is?

Yes well that is the question isn't? You are saying that it is because of natural ability and others are saying it is because of social conditions. You are begging the question.

You see the distinct mentality in children. Boys are more mechanical and are more inquisitive about puzzles, girls like pretty things such as colorful dolls (there is also a correlation with women liking the color pink).

I have known several small boys that had pink as their favourite colour at the age of 3 and 4, and enjoyed playing with 'colourful dolls' yet they are conditioned against those things by their peers as they grow.

You seem to negate the fact entirely that males are more dominant than women- which is a feminist extremist view that is entirely irrational.

Begging the question.

Women make a lot of decisions based on emotion (whether it be subconscious or not).

Citation needed.

Also, why do you think women are mainly in nursing and teaching fields? ? It could be the case that their evolutionary instincts renders them more fit for such field (they have instincts for childcare which would include medically attending to their wounded child (in a way in which they would see best fit), and since women are designed to raise the child, teaching would have to be an essential skill to have.

As a male that has worked in both teaching and nursing I can tell you that men, in general are actively discouraged from persuing these types of careers. I can tell you though that I have always been as good, if not better, than my female counterparts. Ask yourself this.. 50 years ago when the vast majority if teachers were male - would you still have been arguing that women make the best teachers? I think not.

If it is a biopsychological reason for a trait... how would you expect society to just bypass such a trait? This is tantamount to telling homosexuals to stop being gay because society deems it inappropriate.

No. A correct analogy would be... telling people not to kill another for food, or rape or piss in the street. We are not slaved to what you judge should be natural. Men have a tendency to dominate women is your argument. Is this morally okay is the question.

All of your argument is either begging the question or something that needs more citation than "From The Mind of Harvard".

Side: Men Are Not
0 points

Yup. We are male dominant, probably due to the fact that we evolved from a line of animals whose males also were. The only animals I can think of that are female dominant are lemurs.

However, I do think we should have moved on from this. Let's empower women. Feminists have merit.

Side: Men Are Not
BlueEyed15(140) Clarified
1 point

I was agreeing that men are dominant. I may have put some contradictory sentences in there.

Side: Men Are Not

If you're going to make an argument about intelligence, you should probably learn to spell/proofread.

Let's see if you can "rap" your head around that...

Side: Men Are Not
Harvard(659) Disputed
2 points

And if you're going to make a counterargument you should probably learn how to read as not once have I said anything about intelligence.

So much for that smear....

Furthermore, I have openly admitted to being a terrible speller due to conditions (dyslexia) I cannot control. So one would question the intelligence of someone incessantly pointing out factors irrelavent and uncontrollable, given that an intelligent individual would not seem to question a situation they already has the answers to.

Side: Men Are
2 points

not once have I said anything about intelligence

Does dyslexia prevent you from knowing that psychology includes intelligence??

I have openly admitted to being a terrible speller due to conditions (dyslexia)

I do find it interesting that people who are below average in a given aspect are often the ones defending the average - e.g. my brain is broken, but men have better brains than women...

The general case does not apply to every specific case - there are many women who are better than you physically/psychologically.

incessantly pointing out

Is one post incessant to you?

irrelavent[sic]

relevant

uncontrollable

controllable - (use a good spelling and grammar checker since you know you are deficient in that area.)

Side: Men Are Not
3 points

So why do feminist ignore they scientifically proved evidence of men being dominant?

That's what you would expect from a man. If men are told they can't do something, they laugh and work hard until they get it done. That is known as a good quality in men, why not in women.

Side: Men Are Not
vheah(22) Disputed
1 point

Well that is true to an extent, but it's a matter of how people are raised. I think you are generally speaking for men which is true but there are many men out there who would wimp out just as much as women do and fall apart when someone tells them they can't do something and not work their butts off at all.

In my perspective, women are disciplined with a lighter hand since women have been this image of fragility which brings out disputes about how men shouldn't beat women and whatsoever. Coming with that is a characteristic showered by their parents that their daughter should be lady-like, and when I say lady, we're talking light of the house and not a breadwinner. Men have been long renowned to be breadwinners and working harder jobs and that's when I say that we need to stop comparing who is dominant because we have kept women's opportunity short in the beginning of time and we have seized them useless to even see their inner potentials. Up to this date we are easing out of it, but we are still stuck with the thought that women should only be entitled to less and that develops girls' mindsets to not put out as much effort as a guy does since they're always told that they're second in this stupid gender competition.

Side: Men Are
1 point

Sorry, I was fighting a generalization, so my statement looked similar. I didn't mean to imply that all men do it. I was simply trying to point out that if a man did it he wouldn't think it was so weird.

I think you might be hitting on something when you bring up how children are raised. That sounds like a reasonable explanation.

Side: Men Are
2 points

There is no correlation between brain size and intelligence so let's put that irrelevant fact about bigger brains to side.

Women are in general just as capable as men but still recieve less pay for doing the same job. As girls outperform boys at every stage of their education it is difficult to argue they are less intelligent.

Side: Men Are Not
Harvard(659) Disputed
1 point

Please point out where I have said there was a correlation between brain size and intelligence?

Side: Men Are
Atrag(5443) Disputed
3 points

Males brains are even (anatomically) 13% BIGGER than a female brain, which is significant in terms of psychology.

If you didn't mean intelligence than what did you mean. You highlight word bigger so clearly you mean to say that men are better in some way (rather than merely different). So if you didn't mean better in terms of intelligence then what did you mean?

Side: Men Are Not
1 point

What aspect of psychology does it correlate to than?

Side: Men Are
1 point

Males brains are even (anatomically) 13% BIGGER than a female brain,

And Neanderthal brains are even bigger than Human brains.

Side: Men Are Not
1 point

I recently left the feminist movement because they are just as sexist as the patriarchy. I am an egalitarian, not an MRA or feminist.

Side: Men Are Not
1 point

Which feminist movement? There are half a dozen different schools of feminist thought.

Side: Men Are
Sitar(3682) Disputed
1 point

That is personal and private. I used to be a modern feminist, and now I amn not.

Side: Men Are Not
Atrag(5443) Disputed
0 points

Who gives a fuck what label you give yourself? This a debate not a personal blog.

Side: Men Are
Sitar(3682) Disputed
1 point

I was debating the failures of feminism and giving a reason for doing so.

Side: Men Are Not
1 point

I agree with the person before me and I don't think I can add anything relative to the argument. I will say that if child birth was left to men, humanity would be extinct.

Side: Men Are Not
1 point

The reason why men see themselves superior in everything is because they have always been. I mean, a lot men looked down on women back then and didn't even allow them to vote. Women were no breadwinners in the house and men have grown to think "oh wow, we're so much dominant" but that's only because we haven't really given women a chance to perform the same tasks as men. I think it's about time we stop saying which gender is dominant over the other. A lot of feminists do not fight for their rights as a human being because they want to establish dominance over the male sex. They fight because they wanna be treated equally as men in society. Unfortunately, a lot of feminists go over the top and use the advantage as a woman to put all the blame on men which as a female, I highly disagree with.

But back to the point, I don't consider men dominant just because I belong to the female gender but because I actually think there's no sense in comparing both at all. There are some women who are capable of what men can do, there's just so few of them. My physics teacher (and he's a man) told me that women are not to be underestimated only because we grew up playing dolls as given gifts since we are girls. It's something that we didn't have control over as kids--to be raised as "ladies"-- but that doesn't mean that we can't achieve the same things men can. Although the physique build is different from a man's, you still have women who are as massive bodybuilders (I'm not saying a lot of women are but there are a number of em) as other men and in fact are way more muscular than most men and probably so much stronger. We need to unwrap the stereotypical idea of men and women raised a certain way and having to act and perform a certain way to perfectly fall in the "man" and "woman" role in society.

Other than that, both genders have different levels of pain tolerance. I don't think a guy would even appreciate giving birth in a hospital to one kid whether it's a cesarean or worse, a normal delivery. Imagine giving birth to twins, quadruplets or even worse, octuplets. Women might come off weak because that's how women are classified as and are raised as but in that emergency room, it's no joke and carrying a kid for 9 months every single day is not a joke either. I think all men should try the labor pain simulator just for the heck of it.

Side: Men Are Not
1 point

In your other comments, you clearly state the dominance depends on the field. I guess your claim only works if you ignore the fields for which women are dominant over men.

Side: Men Are Not
0 points

Would you like it if all you did was stay at home and look after babies and your husband and cook and clean and sew? It's okay if you WANT to do that. What it NOT OKAY is if men force women to do that. I am a feminist and I cannot imagine myself doing that all day. It would get pretty boring. Women are just as talented as men (if not more) and we deserve to do whatever we want. What pisses me off the most is that you men take everything for granted. If it wasn't for us women, there would be no such things as human beings to start with. You wouldn't be here if it wasn't for your mom, grandma, great-grandma and so on. Guys are just too chicken to go through that pain. You should be thankful right now, not saying that man are dominant. WHICH IS NOT TRUE ANYWAY!! I would honestly be ashamed if I was your mom/sister/cousin/auntie/grandma and so on.

Side: Men Are Not
123456789101(86) Disputed
1 point

women more talented than men lol!! men do not force women to do that guys are not chicken at all we fight in wars. yeah men are dominant and by the way it takes a an to get a women pregnet you idiotic fu*king moron GUYS RULE AND GIRLS DROOL

Side: Men Are

How come girls do so much better than boys at school? All that many men can think about is sex. That is not such a hindrance for women.

Side: Men Are Not
123456789101(86) Disputed
0 points

girls do beter because SOME teachers are sexist and men dont think about sex girls try and suduce men into having sex so shut up

Side: Men Are
3 points

I am quite dumbfounded by the amount of gross misrepresentations regarding my writing. Not once have I stated that men are more intelligent. I said we have bigger brains- an anatomical fact; if this continues then I will just ban the next person who intentionally misrepresents my writings to push their own agenda.

Actually read what I say and not what you want me to say, I was careful in my writings to not make any false, or contentious assertions.

Intelligence can be manifested in differently in certain fields with one gender being dominant in a specific field, for example, women may be more intelligent with childcare, whereas men may be more intelligent with strategic planning (like hunting, or attacking an enemy village, for example).

Side: Men Are
5 points

But that doesn't really make sense now does it?

Side: Men Are Not
Kalamazoo(317) Disputed
1 point

Hey, stay dumbfounded there Harvard, that's what you're good at, and sure, you've nothing better to do with your time at any rate. As a break from your pompous drivel why don't you try yodeling up the canyon. or some other such activity more commensurate with your arrested intellect. Yes sirree Bob, being dumbfounded and yodeling up the canyon is just you all over. Bye for Now-now-now-now-now.

Side: Men Are Not
Harvard(659) Disputed
3 points

This could be a clever smear if you understood what "dumbfounded" meant, and didn't continue your remark premised on falsehoods. You seem to think it implies ignorance, which, if you actually understood fundamental English, Englishman, you would've have known this:

Dumbfound- greatly astonish or amaze.

Essentially, all you just said was "stay amazed, that's what you're good at [...]-" which, in a sense, is true because I do love to remain amazed, its what keeps me going in life; if things weren't amazing life would be greatly boring...

Side: Men Are
1 point

A) If it was irrelevant vis-à-vis dominance, why mention it?

B) you specifically say that it is more than a trivial fact, but that it does have relevance: "BIGGER than a female brain, which is significant in terms of psychology" - psychology includes intelligence.

Side: Men Are Not
1 point

one gender being dominant in a specific field

So, your position is that sometimes men are dominant on average and sometimes women are dominant on average?

Then your post belongs on the other side.

Side: Men Are Not
Atrag(5443) Disputed
1 point

I am quite dumbfounded by the amount of gross misrepresentations regarding my writing. Not once have I stated that men are more intelligent. I said we have bigger brains- an anatomical fact; if this continues then I will just ban the next person who intentionally misrepresents my writings to push their own agenda.

Okay so why is men having bigger brains relevant? That those that are more top heavy are naturally the more dominant ones?

Side: Men Are Not
1 point

That is a self evident truth which doesn't require elaborate literary embellishment. Almost everything in the modern world from the computer your using, electricity, the telephone, television, the radio, the automobile, the aeroplane, penicillin and so forth were all invented/discovered by man. The list of the male's inventive genius and pioneering ingenuity is endless. Woman's role in society has expanded as a result of political correctness and not due to their suitability for the roles to which they have aspired.

Side: Men Are
0 points

the computer your[sic] using

Women WERE computers!

The first program ever written for an electronic computer was written by women.

ref

Side: Men Are Not
YouTube Clarified
1 point

Though, they did not invent the actual computer- they invented a program... woohoo!

To say "Women were comp!" is a bit of a of exaggeration. Their program is irrelevant if their was no medium through which to propagate.

Side: Men Are Not
1 point

This site is called Create Debate, not, 'Take the Bait''. To where did my last riposte vanish?

Side: Men Are
JustIgnoreMe(3450) Clarified
2 points

Click the "Show Replies" under the argument you responded to. (Presumably the one by Harvard that begins "This could be a clever smear...")

Or, click "Show All Replies" near the top left

(both probably require JavaScript)

Side: Men Are Not
1 point

What about the gender imbalances favoring women in some occupational fields? The fact that more women teachers are hired than men? or nurses? Most modern feminists go on and on about higher male employment and how it's unfair for women not to receive equal opportunity. If you identify as a feminist who wants everything to be equal for both genders, you have to look at both sides, and examples of women dominance as well. Besides, working to create equal numbers of men and women hired for a particular job is ridiculous. What happened to being hired because of your work ethic and/or knowledge in the field of work? If I were in an employer's position, I would hire based on these characteristics, rather than hire equal amounts of each gender so that I can keep feminists at bay. If you want an example, take firemen. Because men are anatomically built stronger than women, it would make sense that more of them are hired for the job that could potentially involve carrying a person out of a burning building in order to save their life. Or would you rather have dead or injured people instead of more women in the field of work?

Another thing that feminists complain about is rape and sexualization of women. Can we really blame men for having testosterone levels sometimes up to 20 times higher than a woman's? They might seem hornier.. because they have more of the hormone that fuels sex drive.

In the past feminism was very important, I don't deny that. But now that so much has been achieved- equal women's rights and all that jazz- what's the point? What are modern feminists trying to do? How can you make everything equal for men and women when there is a pre-established hierarchy that favors men when it comes to strength and dominance?

I don't understand feminists either, but if you identify as one, here are some things you can do that will actually make sense:

1. Blame mother nature (or God, or evolution, or whatever it is you hold responsible for the structure of humans) for making men physically stronger and with higher testosterone levels.

2. Encourage employers to hire based on gender, not on the morals of the worker, or how qualified they are for the job

3. If you are a female feminist, go around and rape some guys. If the difference in statistics bother you, that's the only way you're going to be able to fix it.

Side: Men Are
5 points

But that doesn't really make sense now does it?

Side: Men Are Not
5 points

But that doesn't really make sense now does it?

Side: Men Are Not
5 points

But that doesn't really make sense now does it?

Side: Men Are Not
5 points

But that doesn't really make sense now does it?

Side: Men Are Not
5 points

But that doesn't really make sense now does it?

Side: Men Are Not