CreateDebate is a social debate community built around ideas, discussion and democracy.
If this is your first time checking out a debate, here are some quick tips to help get you started:
Arguments with the highest score are displayed first.
Argument replies (both in favor and in opposition) are displayed below the original argument.
To follow along, you may find it helpful to show and hide the replies displayed below each argument.
To vote for an argument, use these icons:
You have the power to cast exactly one vote (either up or down) for each argument.
Once you vote, the icon will become grayed out and the argument's score will change.
Yes, you can change your vote.
Debate scores, side scores and tag scores are automatically calculated by an algorithm that primarily takes argument scores into account.
All scores are updated in real-time.
To learn more about the CreateDebate scoring system, check out the FAQ.
When you are ready to voice your opinion, use the Add Argument button to create an argument.
If you would like to address an existing argument, use the Support and Dispute link within that argument to create a new reply.
I think trying to figure out when life begins is looking at the wrong thing when it comes to abortion. I think the thing we should be looking at is why is terminating a life wrong? My personal opinion is because it causes pain and emotional distress to the victim and their loved ones. Their are a few other minor reasons, but I think those are the big ones.
So the next question we need to ask is does abortion cause pain or emotional distress to an unborn fetus? It depends on the stage of development. Recent studies say that fetuses don't feel pain until after 24 weeks of age. I had a hard time finding much information on emotional development, but the few articles I found said emotions didn't develop until the last trimester. 88% of abortions occur before the end of the first trimester, long before the fetus is able to feel pain, emotions, or exist independently of the mother. Less than two percent of abortions occur after 20 weeks.
Is terminating the life of someone who is brain dead wrong? If it's not, then why is terminating the life of an unborn fetus that is incapable of feeling pain or emotion wrong?
The other argument I often hear is that by aborting a fetus you are destroying their future potential. This argument fails to consider that their future potential could be bad. They might become a drug dealer, a child molester, or even the next Hitler. So, if you are going to factor in future potential you can't just look at the good potential and ignore the bad. If future potential is a factor, then that same factor needs to be considered in other issues. For example, if a parent doesn't buy their kid any crayons, they may have just destroyed that child's future potential to become a great artist. You also need to consider that having an unplanned child could destroy the future potential of the mother.
So when you said you supported the right of others to different beliefs on this subject, you really only meant their right to hold that belief and not live by it. Yes?
How is this any different than the (generally) conservative opposition to same-sex marriage?
Exactly! I just made that up. Just like you arbitrary made up your definition of life. Why should the whole country be forced to bow to your whim? It's like deciding to go to war based on goat entrails. Personally, I have no idea when life begins. But even if I did, am I the chosen one? Am I the son of God? What makes my opinion better than anyone else's? Because the definition of life is impossible to objectively define, it is the responsibility and right of each individual to define it for themselves and make their own choice about abortion.
You are wrong. I did not make anything up. Life beginning at implantation makes scienitific sense. This has nothing to do with religion. You need to stay on topic and debate the facts.
Science can describe the process of impregnation, gestation, and birth. However, the ascription of the attribute "life" at some point in that process is semantic and not scientific.
It makes absolutely no scientific sense. Take that zygote out of the womb and it will cease to exist in a few seconds. It has no ability to process information or respond to outside stimulus. How is that life? What you mean to say is that it is your opinion that implantation sounds like a nice, but completely arbitrary, point at which to grant a group of cells all the rights afforded to real human beings. You can't justify it any better than to say it is your opinion. I find it so arrogant for you to outlaw abortion for the rest of us who happen to disagree with your arbitrary decision. That you consider your opinion so much greater than the rest of us is what I really disagree with.
Yes it does make semse. We know from science that the unborn child is genetically unique at fertilization. He or she is not part of the mother's body. Show me one scienitific study that proves the unborn child is part of the mother's body.
Science does not tell us that we must say that life starts when the egg is as separate entity from the mother. "science" does not contradict people who say life starts at birth. We as a society can decide what we label as the start of life and is based largely on the implications such a label has.
You are a hypocrite. If you pardon the pun ;) I have the right to choose whether to have an abortion or not. I do have a freedom of belief and a right to choose if I want to abort the fetus or not. You can't control what I believe or what I do with my body. First you rape and kill and now this. Typical prolifer.
Well, it's always ok to have your beliefs, it's what actions you take based on them that matter more. If you don't feel as though your belief is right, then you're allowed to say "I'm not sure" or "I'm still figuring it out." People on the other side of the issue will hope that you come to a new conclusion, but as there is not much clarity on what objective morality would be, you have to stick with what you believe. Think about why you believe that. If you have a clear answer that makes sense to you, then stick with it. If not, you can change your opinion, or simply say you aren't positive what to believe.
What you believe in is logical...and you can believe whatever you wish to believe, you have the right to that after all. So my advice for you is to stay confident in what you believe in, everyone has an opinion and ways to beliefs :)
I think "life" begins with conception. But that doesn't mean I support concepts of abortion is murder or anything like that. Therefore I have no advice.
Why restrict abortion? Every individual has a certain level of comfort on the matter. You don't have to justify your level of comfort to anyone. They may ask for links, but ignore then. State your position and move on. Is there a possibility you'll be wrong? Yeah, but there's also a possibility you'll be right and a possibility that it just doesn't matter. Either way, just base your decision on the available information and know that's the best you can do.
I decided a long time ago that abortions are not for me. Everyone else can have as many abortions as they want. I only object to calling fetuses a clump of cells or a parasite. Those are just words used by people who want to make themselves feel better about abortions. I call it as I see it, the destruction of human life. But we go around killing people around the world so, what's one more.
It just kills me when people try to justify shit with pretty words. Damn it, just say you don't give a rats ass about the little bastard because he's going to cramp your style and abort his little ass. Own up to your selfishness. Don't try to sugar coated.
A parasite is defined as an organism of one species living in or on an organism of another species (a heterospecific relationship) and deriving its nourishment from the host (is metabolically dependent on the host).
A human embryo or fetus is an organism of one species (Homo sapiens) living in the uterine cavity of an organism of the same species (Homo sapiens) and deriving its nourishment from the mother (is metabolically dependent on the mother). This homospecific relationship is an obligatory dependent relationship, but not a parasitic relationship.
When a parasite invades a host, the host will usually respond by forming antibodies in response to the somatic antigens (molecules comprising the body of the parasite) or metabolic antigens (molecules secreted or excreted by the parasite) of the parasite. Parasitism usually involves an immunological response on the part of the host.
New evidence, presented by Beer and Billingham in their article, "The Embryo as a Transplant" (Scientific American, April, 1974), indicates that the mother does react to the presence of the embryo by producing humoral antibodies, but they suggest that the trophoblast -- the jacket of cells surrounding the embryo -- blocks the action of these antibodies and therefore the embryo or fetus is not rejected. This reaction is unique to the embryo-mother relationship.
Wow, a fetus is only not a parasite because it is the same species. Everything else fits though. I guess you rely showed me, and I bet everyone will stop using that term now.
A parasite is an invading organism -- coming to parasitize the host from an outside source.
A human embryo or fetus is formed from a fertilized egg -- the egg coming from an inside source, being formed in the ovary of the mother from where it moves into the oviduct where it may be fertilized to form the zygote -- the first cell of the new human being.
New evidence, presented by Beer and Billingham in their article, "The Embryo as a Transplant" (Scientific American, April, 1974), indicates that the mother does react to the presence of the embryo by producing humoral antibodies, but they suggest that the trophoblast -- the jacket of cells surrounding the embryo -- blocks the action of these antibodies and therefore the embryo or fetus is not rejected. This reaction is unique to the embryo-mother relationship.
Yes, Fertilization = conception in my thinking. Implantation is a later stage. But I think it is important to split the discussion between timing and reasons why. Timing really doesn't matter because if you believe that the fertilized egg is going to grow into a live human being then at any point after fertilization you are killing a human being. I am more concerned about the why because I believe a woman should have a right to choose what to do with her own body. But, I believe that she needs to strongly consider the why (rape, her own health, genetic issues with the pre-born, etc.).
I believe that "life" begins when an organism is able to sustain itself.
A child recieves oxygen from its mother via amniotic fluid. The lungs are deflated until birth so as soon as the child is born it has to breathe on its own. That I believe is the moment when "life" begins because if we did not breathe then there would be no life
