CreateDebate is a social debate community built around ideas, discussion and democracy.
If this is your first time checking out a debate, here are some quick tips to help get you started:
Arguments with the highest score are displayed first.
Argument replies (both in favor and in opposition) are displayed below the original argument.
To follow along, you may find it helpful to show and hide the replies displayed below each argument.
To vote for an argument, use these icons:
You have the power to cast exactly one vote (either up or down) for each argument.
Once you vote, the icon will become grayed out and the argument's score will change.
Yes, you can change your vote.
Debate scores, side scores and tag scores are automatically calculated by an algorithm that primarily takes argument scores into account.
All scores are updated in real-time.
To learn more about the CreateDebate scoring system, check out the FAQ.
When you are ready to voice your opinion, use the Add Argument button to create an argument.
If you would like to address an existing argument, use the Support and Dispute link within that argument to create a new reply.
You can share this debate in three different ways:
#1
#2
#3
Paste this URL into an email or IM:
Click here to send this debate via your default email application.
Click here to login and CreateDebate will send an email for you.
Ideologies
Okay so this is a pretty easy one, one that you probably have had before. Either way, which society structures do you find more effective? One based on socialism (etc. northern European countries like Germany, Denmark, Sweden, etc.) Or one based on liberalism like USA?
America has been a social democracy since the oligarchy created by the (Railroad guy, can't think of his name at the moment), Rockefellers, (Oil) and Carnegies (steel). That was broken up by one of the few good Republicans, Teddy Roosevelt. HE brought people out of poverty, gave them jobs and decent wages .... kind of like Democrats fight for today, while conservatives rally for another Oligarchy. Go figure. I support Bernie Sanders in every way. If Hillary survives the vicious lies of the right wing conspiracy, I'll support HER, if not, Bernie is my man! America has had its best years under Democratic Socialism, its worst under a conservative oligarchy!
America has been a social democracy since the oligarchy created by the (Railroad guy, can't think of his name at the moment), Rockefellers, (Oil) and Carnegies (steel).
Social democracy is how this country was set up. We elect representatives to decide how to spend the tax money we pay into the system.
.
they tried doing it without taxes and it doesn't work.
.
as long as there are taxes, it's socialism to one degree or another.
.
the liberTARIAN paradise that some seem to think existed somewhere in the past... NEVER DID. there have only been shades of more or less regulation placed upon capitalism.
.
free market capitalism, unrestrained by government, ALWAYS results in corruption and fraud... every single time.
.
we are swinging back from a period of unregulated capitalism because ppl living today can see with their own eyes how it DOES NOT WORK for the average American... it only works for those at the top.
As a Social Democratic, I most certainly assure you it was not.
We elect representatives to decide how to spend the tax money we pay into the system.
You have described a Representative Democracy, which is how our government was set up.
as long as there are taxes, it's socialism to one degree or another.
No, it is not. Socialism requires the public ownership of the means of production and distribution. Taxation is not inherently socialist in any way. Taxation and distribution of tax income predates Socialism, and even Capitalism.
You have described a Representative Democracy, which is how our government was set up.
.
yes, i know.
.
Socialism requires the public ownership of the means of production and distribution.
.
but not ALL the means.... just those that are "socialized".
.
libraries, roads, municipal services (before they were sold off to private for-profit companies)... that kind of thing.
.
it's funny the obvious aversion to the word that so many ppl seem to have.
.
we are all socialists... especially the rich, because they are the ones the are socialized to the greatest extent.... every time we bail them out w/ our tax money.
but not ALL the means.... just those that are "socialized".
Yes, all the means. Socialism entails full public ownership. A hybrid system that incorporates some aspects of socialism will not require all the means to be publicly owned, such as Social Democracies.
it's funny the obvious aversion to the word that so many ppl seem to have.
Remember, I have already stated I am a Social Democratic. I only have an aversion to people misusing the word.
we are all socialists... especially the rich, because they are the ones the are socialized to the greatest extent.... every time we bail them out w/ our tax money.
Just because one uses socialized services does not mean one is a socialist, so no, nowhere near all of us are socialists. In fact, very, very few of us are socialists, or even Social Democratics.
easy to claim... harder to prove... i think you're a mole.
It is actually incredibly easy to prove if you bother to look through my comment history. Not that you will, because that requires effort instead of belligerence.
easy to claim... harder to prove... i think you're a mole.
So you have none. Would you like me to provide you with national polls from almost every major polling agency regarding American ideological affiliation? Because I assure you, the evidence does not back up your claims.
There are studies showing where people are happiest, live the longest and where the class distinction is the smallest. The countries with a socialistic foundation are usually in the top 5 of these - for example, the class distinction is the smallest in Denmark. People live the longest in Norway, and the Scandinavian countries are all in the top 10 Happiest Countries.
Do you find there is a link between these facts and the social structure they use?
This/These studies are not reflective of Islamic residents. They's pissed and their exist a great divide between these two populations. See cause them Islam folks ain't blonde. 😳
Not all countries with a "socialist foundation" (somewhat questionable, as the Social Democracies do not have a true socialist foundation, but a hybrid one) are better places to live in. Scandinavia has a culture that conforms with Social Democratic theory, where people believe in and appreciate the concept of social collectivism, and contributing for the sake of the common good. Their mindset is far less individualistic, and that helps their system work.
While I am a Social Democratic, I am quite confident that such a system would not work in the U.S. without serious social change.
You are probably correct. I am do believe, however, that the reason such structures wouldn't work elsewhere is because people with money have too much power. I am sure all the thousands of homeless people would very much appreciate changing the standards of living.
You are fundamentally misunderstanding what he means.
Liberalism as he is referring to it is not the ideology of Modern American Liberalism. He is talking a sociological liberalism as the underpinning of our society; they mean different things.
These words have way too many meanings for this to be a productive conversation. Do you mean Classical Liberalism or Welfare-State/Regulated-Capitalism Liberalism?
Can I just pick the one that means limited, but effective, government and free, but not totally unregulated, markets? A system that works towards the common good with strong respect for fundamental human rights?
