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If God/angels visited you face to face would it even really matter?
If God himself came to you, the size of a mountain, with lightning whizzing around him, and masses of angels singing and flying around him, and manifested out of an otherworldly portal, would it actually change your Atheistic stance, or would you hold onto Secular dogma and/or hatred for God? I have a theory that proof wouldn't change the Atheist because it isn't actually proof that Atheists are looking for...
Of course this isn't true. There's no such thing as "everything is false", per basic laws of probability. Even the universe found a way to spew you out of its bowels, thus, something always has to be true, or you wouldn't exist. Admit it's true.
I do not interpret what God tells me. I accept it. No interpretation required. The Bible's message is perfectly clear. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
What can be done about this? It's equally clear. That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
That's all anyone really needs to know about Scripture.
All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
That's all you got out of hundreds and hundreds of pages. That's skipping quite a bit of the Bible.
What can be done about this? It's equally clear.
That's true, it is equally clear.
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
You say you believe it, but that isn't exactly easy.
That's all anyone really needs to know about Scripture.
Yeah fuck all the parts about how to treat people.
I said that Christians don't understand anything and you said that I can't be sure some I don't know other Christians. You on the other hand definitely don't understand the words you use and I have pointed this out to you.
You said "Christians don't know how". My response in simple language is "how do you know what every Christian on Earth understands?" You don't. You made a sloppy assumption and got called on it.
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
You say you believe it, but that isn't exactly easy"
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Few things that are worth having or fighting for in life are obtained with ease. That's life. Even the military makes training hard to "weed out" and refine..
Excellent. You attack the person who thinks the bible talks about morality and defended the guy who doesn't care about the morality in the Bible. You just forfeited the morality high ground. Hahahaha. Good job, dumb fuck. You should have just remembered that they are just words. You are so great. Thanks man.
You know what is really great. If God came to you and told you you were doing it wrong you wouldn't change. You wouldn't actually listen to God and I would, and I am the atheist. Think about that.
2)You don't know whether we would change or not. If we are following what we think are his commands now, there is no logical reason to claim that we wouldn't avert course if He said to.
You mean they confirmed the veracity of the Bible by walking on water, raising the dead, fitting 2 of all living things in a boat, flooding the planet, communing with the creator of all that is as a bush, observing the fiery depths of hell, and repeating any other miracle I may have missed?
Or do you mean they failed to reproduce any of it...
Interesting that an all powerful God who spends so much time doing unverifiable magic can't manage to show up just once to help us verify it.
Maybe you could give me an idea of how many studies have tried and failed to show the Bible is fiction. That would lend some weight to an otherwise baseless statement.
Actually, you are quite wrong. You cannot prove that any of the Bible is a work of fiction. There is absolutely no proof either way. The Bible has never been proven wrong about anything is says. Many have claimed that it has been, but it's just a lot of hot air.
Actually, you can't prove The bagivad gita, the Egyptian book of the dead, or the works of Scientology are works of fiction, but that doesn't mean they aren't. The evidence against the Bible is in the various accounts of physically impossible events that are not reproducible and thus, warrant no merit.
"Actually, you can't prove The bagivad gita, the Egyptian book of the dead, or the works of Scientology are works of fiction, but that doesn't mean they aren't."
Irrelevant. We are discussing The Bible here.
"The evidence against the Bible is in the various accounts of physically impossible events that are not reproducible and thus, warrant no merit."
Impossible? People used to think humans would never be able to fly. But not only have we flown the friendly skies, we have landed men on the moon. Now, I ask you. What reaction would you expect, if you traveled back in time 100 years, and told people we would land on the freakin' moon? They would say it's impossible. I think what you are really saying is that you think the possibility that God exists is impossible. By definition, God can do anything. Just like He did in the Bible. So, the events are not impossible. It is simply impossible for people like you to believe in a Being Who is greater then you. Worse yet, you find it impossible to admit that you are a sinner, and require Gods help to make it to Heaven. That's the real problem. Your sinful pride is getting in the way. Better change your attitude, before it's too late.
My point is absolutely relevant. I could argue for the Egyptian book of the dead in the very same way you argue for the Bible and my points would be exactly as reasonable as yours. Which is to say my points would be unreasonable as faith based arguments are necessarily. Asked on faith, not reason.
Furthermore, I'm not an atheist, you just lack perspective. And what's worse, you know you lack perspective. Maybe not consciously, but deep down the knowledge that you are wrong screws the rest of your worldview.
How do I lack perspective? That is not the reality we are discussing here. My perspective is based on Scripture. Could it be that you do not believe that Gods word is infallible. Also, could you please provide an example of how I am wrong? What I have posted here is based on Scripture. Show me how I was wrong.
You lack perspective because there is only one reality, and knowing it accurately doesn't involve faith, but reason. You tried to pigeon-hole me as an atheist because I am not a Christian. All while failing to see that your arguments are as applicable to any other faith as they are to your own.
So how are you wrong? You were wrong when you put faith in scripture.
Yeshua is so funny and amazing. I would be honored. .......................................................................................................................................
Not really an atheist, but more so agnostic. Unless I was under the influence of copious amounts of drugs or in the midst of a psychotic episode I would obviously have to change my view. But in all honesty though, it could happen and all I'd think would be "I really need to see a doctor for these hallucinations".
sure, provided I'm not drunk or high, and no ones pranking me, i sure would, but i would for sure want to know about what religion should be according to god, but i will not take any other proof until I experience it in person.
IF the god of Christianity revealed himself to me then technically I could not be an atheist anymore because I would believe God exists. I still would not worship him though, because the god of the bible is demonstrably unjust, immoral and clearly evil to his core.
Yes, as long as the message was love and compassion. If the message was fear me and do what I say or I'll smite you then I'd see that so called god as a devil not to be trusted.
Lucifer was the highest Angel in Heaven. Actually, he was an Archangel. He lived in the presence of God, for who knows how long. It was a part of his daily reality. And he STILL rebelled. Atheists are the same way. They KNOW God exists. They KNOW that they are sinners. They may not consciously recognize this, but it affects the way they think. The Bible tells us that no one will have any excuses on Judgement Day.
You actually have no ability to see a position from another perspective. No insight into the opposition. Your lack of intellectual empathy explains a bit.
It is not imagination. The old Testament is a historical record. It describes actual events. The New Testament is a collection of eyewitness accounts. Whether or not you believe them, they were written by people who lived during the time of Christ, several of them knew Him. They traveled with Him, Watched Him perform miracles, saw Him die, then rise from the grave. So, what do you believe in? That the universe created itself from nothing, and some process called evolution magically created the millions of species we see today? How is that any more believable than a Creator? Oh, I get it. Being a follower of Christ requires one to deny themselves and give up all the 'fun' things in life, like homosexuality, premarital sex, and a bunch of other stuff. Got it. Well, enjoy them while you can. You're in for a shock.
I saw a burning bush on second life. Must not be that hard to program one into a simulated reality. As a matter of fact, it only takes the push of a button.
How do you right wing holy rollers know that our dissenting voices are NOT the actual voice sent by God or angels to talk some sense into you? Maybe we are. In fact maybe we don't even know we are. Yet your insults and arrogance and elitism toward us may actually be infuriating the God you claim to represent in your arguments.
I didn't insult anyone. Quit appealing to emotions. If God is sending angels to convince us that He doesn't exist, the logic of the point would simply mean we can't find the answer through reason.
You've also referred to me as a "Holy roller" when I have openly said "I'm not actually a very good Christian", and have never told anyone they are going to hell, etc. I have engaged in intellectual discourse. Excon made the claim that he "needed a burning bush" as a casual snip at God. I countered that it's really not hard to make a "burning bush" if you created the reality in the first place.
I'm agreeing only in so far as I gave the stock response I would give the holy rollers on this site. Agreed. In fairness you may not be one.
But in fairness to me and the rest of us there is multi-avatar play going on in this site so odds are you've got some other identity in here where you are one.
I only have one account. The admin demanded I give him a list, and he deleted any other accounts. I was Subcreature and Grittyworm, but that was used only to counter LittleMisfit/JCsMom/a plethera of accounts, originally, and then it became a war between misfit and me on duel accounts to mess with each other. Grittyworm and Subcreature were not holy rollers. NowASaint might could be labeled as such (based on the little I have seen), but after I dismantled him/her in the Phariseeism will not save you only grace" debate, he/she blocked me from all other debates after telling me I was going to burn in hell and telling me my old pic was a demon. It's an emperial guard from star wars...
NowASaint is a hoot isn't he? Your Imperial Guard picture was pretty awesome. He calls me a witch because I have a few friends who practice Paganism and constantly says I speak with the voice of demons...or something like that which is emphatically untrue....I only speak like a demon when I haven't have my morning coffee. ;D
Don't listen to Saint, Mint_tea. Not only is his decleration unbiblical, it makes no logical sense. God loves you even if the flicker of light is small. He is that flicker. I can provide the verses if you ask for them.
Truly I appreciate it, he doesn't get to me at all. I find his actions remarkable and sometimes laughable, but he does have value on this site like I think everyone does.
I know God loves me, that's never been in doubt but again, thank you. :D
From an intellectual perspective, if someone was an "angel" sent here to convince me there was no God, that "angel" would be a demon by Biblical definition.
Cool. Do you start from seed inside under grow lights? And are you growing in pots or going straight in the ground? Most of my stuff starts from seed under lights and then transfers to Geopots/airpots, and then I set them on the ground and roots can still grow down through the bottom of the pot into the soil if the plant wants.
The place where I buy my supplies really does primarily cater to people growing the illicit stuff like you do, but I really am just using it for tomatoes and peppers.
She knows nothing about Students Against Drunk Driving. She does know how to put the lotion on its skin though. People chained up in cellars are people too Grenache. Don't hate.
I would definitely change my view. If there is a "god", I'm not understanding why he hasn't done this to begin with. I'm sure that would definitely end all such debates.
The only way to prove to myself I wasn't hallucinating would be to ask him some random question I don't know the answer to, e.g. "What is the first word on the 456th page of the shorter oxford English dictionary on my shelf" If he answered correctly then fine, I would believe him, if not then I would just be hallucinating. If he refused to answer then that's not my problem, I'd just assume I was hallucinating / it was somehow fake.
I would ride it out, and then immediately accuse and punch whoever it was who thought it funny to put acid in food.
Also chemicals in your brain that act between sleep and awakefullness can cause you to have vivid hallucinations, and many times they are specifically relevant to the religious indoctrination a person had when they were young. There are books on these things.