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 "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex (87)

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"If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex

I saw this debate on another site and it really bothered me.  Want to see if the debates on here are any different!

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8 points

Where do I even begin with this nonsense?

Mounting evidence points to the fact that homosexuality is enduced by a misproduction of hormones during pregnancy. There is no choice in whether or not to have homosexual thoughts or tendancies; sexual orientation is dictated by complex chemical reactions that go on in the body. Essentially, you're left with what could be thought of as a female-oriented brain in a male body, or vice versa, which is why many homosexuals could also be discribed as 'camp.' I don't believe many studies have gone into the genetic/hormonal reasons behind paedophilia, but for the point of this argument I would rather not assume that there couldn't be a similar cause for paedophilia (although I would lean towards sexual deviation bought about during childhood rather than a genetic reason). So, let's look at this from the point of view that paedophilia is actually bought about by similar hormonal and genetic reasons as homosexuality.

Society has drawn up a set or rules, or moral codes (let's not get into an argument about where morals came from), and one of these rules is the idea of sexual consent. In the society we live in, it is perfectly reasonable to assert that people of a certain age cannot make coherent decisions about sexual activity. It is also obvious that people below a certain age are not only unable to make correct decisions, but actually unable in any way to comprehend what is going on and actually make a decision at all.

The bottom line here is not what is or isn't natural; it's about whether or not we allow consenting adults to engage in the sexual activity of their choice. Even if homosexuality and paedophilia were bought about by similar causes, they cannot be discussed in similar tones as paedophilia is literally the act of engaging in sexual relations with someone below the age that society has dictated as being able to make coherent decisions about their sexual activity. To force someone into sex is in absolutely no way even remotely similar to engaging in a consensual activity that is only deemed inappropriate because of our inability to drop outdated religious idealisms from society's moral code; especially in the light of all the scientific evidence regarding homosexuality.

| Side: they're in no way similar

Well put. I have heard the argument comparing homosexuality to pedophilia before and it was pretty infuriating.

In short: pedophilia hurts people, homosexuality doesn't. It's pretty simple.

| Side: they're in no way similar
leblueboy(7) Disputed
6 points

I'm afraid this is a very simple, semantic argument.

Paedophilia is defined as 'a sexual attraction to children' (Princeton). It should be noted that paedophilia applies specifically to pre-pubescent children (approximately 0 - 12). Homosexuality is defined as 'a sexual attraction to (or sexual relations with) persons of the same sex ' (Princeton).

The problem is the social connotations of the word 'paedophilia' - this is by no means a lay problem, it exists within both professional and academic circles. The problem being that people associate 'paedophile' with 'rapist' or 'abuser'. Notably, this also occurred during the 1950s with the word 'homosexual'. To consider a paedophile a rapist is to consider a hetero- or homosexual a rapist, too. Paedophiles may engage in consensual sex* (though not legally, see below).

Homosexuality was legalised in a number of countries over a number of years, though generally, prior to legalisation, it was considered a mental illness and and any two men who had sex with one another were deemed unable to provide consent: as such, it was an act of statutory rape. A child (ie those under the age of sixteen in the United Kingdom) are unable to provide legal consent - to have sex with a child under sixteen, if one is over the age of sixteen, is an act of statutory rape, regardless of whether the child provided 'consent'.

Your argument, I'm afraid, is incorrect. Child abuse hurts people - so does rape. Consensual sex with a paedophile does not, and a large number of studies suggest that children who engage in consensual sex with both other children and adults face no repercussions later in life.

| Side: Pro
3707070(1) Disputed
2 points

"pedophilia hurts people, homosexuality doesn't. It's pretty simple."

You seem to imply that homosexuals do not engage in child molestation, is that so?

There is research going back decades that link homosexuality with Paedophilia and not just little boys are victims but girls also.

Homosexuality is anything but harmless.

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
TheThinker(1694) Disputed
2 points

I am downvoting you because pedophilia cannot hurt people. People hurt people. Pedophlia is the sexual attraction towards children. Sexual attraction towards children to not hurt children. Sexual acts on children hurts children. In others words, again, people hurt people.

Also, with the same logic, you cannot say that homosexuality doesn't hurt people.

I read a lot of the connection between homosexuality and consent. But i have never seen anyone brought up the connection between homosexuality and rape. There are homosexuality rape that has occured in this evil world. And this one again proves that ultimately, people hurt people.

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
TERMINATOR(6718) Disputed
1 point

How does paedophilia hurt 'people'?

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
-2 points
1 point

Could you guys bellieve that this other debate site I visited were actually standing up for pedophiles saying it was natural and that in not exact words but implied that Jesus was completely accepting of it bacause it was in fact natural, what is the world coming to?

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
leblueboy(7) Disputed
2 points

Frankly, I think what 'Jesus' thought of it is somewhat irrelevent. We have no evidence of what 'Jesus' thought, we merely have a badly-translated and translitterated Bible. The bible preaches the murder of witches, homosexuals and any number of others. Do you really want to trust what 'Jesus' thinks?

| Side: Religion has no place in a soc sci debat
Pineapple(1443) Disputed
0 points

I'm going to preface this by saying that I do not support pedophiles or the practice of pedophilia. Also, I do support Homosexuality. That being said...

Pedophilia is natural. Many rural civilizations condone the taking of child brides (or similar practices, like pedophilia). It is only through the evolution of civilization, not physiological evolution, that we have come to oppose this practice. Men want to impregnate girls who are about 15 years old because they are the best breeding stock. They are young, fit, and able. And the reason we oppose it is because we know that a child of 15 is better off when they are allowed to experience young adulthood without corruption of sexual intercourse or the responsibilities that follow. They need to grow up and become wiser before they can responsibly choose partners.

But there is another form of pedophilia. The very, very wrong kind. When a man or a woman wishes to molest or otherwise torture of hurt a young child, a child not yet sexually matured, this is not natural. The person who wants this either cannot choose to be this way, cannot fix themselves, and was not born like this or they are mean people who simply want to copulate with someone who is easily controlled. Most if not all of these types of pedophiles were victims themselves.

It is either my instinct, or my learned response, but when I imagine having a little daughter, and then imagine her being raped by anyone, I cringe. I want to protect her. So I believe it is simply yin and yang of a man's (or in some case woman) urge to either copulate or harm or control, and a parent's urge to protect his or her young. I believe it is similar to alligators eating the young of other alligators.

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
nrockerz(1) Disputed
1 point

you say of a certain age of what age please give a no. if you say below 18 above 8 then no they are perfectly able of making decisions....it depends in the environ u were raised and also in type of society....in todays society it is perfectly able.....

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
waitaminute(1) Disputed
1 point

The problem here is your argument basically states that the only reason pedophilia is wrong is because either:

1) consent is not given

2) consent is given but the person is below the age society has deemed acceptable

Option 1 is invalid because at that point we're no longer talking about homosexuality or pedophilia but rape.

Option 2 basically recognizes that the argument is a valid argument but you are invalidating it based on an arbitrary age society has drawn, and that age can change. If we lower the age far enough there essentially is no difference between the two (morally speaking)

Thus the argument you use to refute this claim, which (hinges on the consent issue) is invalid and without a successful refute the claim stands.

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
8 points

I'm not a SCIENTIST, but Psychology is what I do study. So that's the viewpoint i'll take it from.

Pedophilia is NOT a choice. It's a fixation (if you believe in that). People don't CHOOSE to feel aroused by looking at children, they just do for God knows what. Some will say it's a fixation from early childhood, others will say it's what you're born with.

Personally, I believe that in ALL cases it will always be a combination of Nature and Nurture. Nature will have a certain set, and Nurture can either fixate that set or make you at a middle ground.

For gays, I believe you are born either leaning straight or leaning gay, but the determination depends mainly on the environment.

For men it's much easier since sexually they almost have to take an extreme. Love and Lust for men is much more physical than it is for women (which is why bisexuality in women is more realistic).

Can a gay man turn straight? Realistically, no. Even with harsh therapy and years of extreme environmental issues, it would be almost impossible to turn a gay man straight. but is it impossible? No. Same for a straight man.

Children are much different, especially when much younger. A child may lean gay but depending on the circumstances can possibly end up being straight. But that's still very unlikely.

As for pedophiles, it's not exactly a sexual fixation at a young age. Pedophiles will usually be born with more unstable emotions. Which is why a trauma can cause their pedophile urges much later. But it would have to be a sexual trauma. This is why often victimized boys will turn into GAY pedophiles even if they were straight as a child (although, that is still hard to determine, it could also be because children leaning towards gay are more emotionally unstable, and, if sexually abused as a child, will turn pedophile while also being confirmed gay).

The argument on Homosexuality and Pedophilia is still up in the air. No one really knows what causes it, but most psychologists will agree that it is a combination of Nature and Nurture.

But the idea that sexual arousal is a choice is absurd.

| Side: Psychology Explains Most
1 point

I think that's the first time I've seen a psychologist who claims not to be a scientist. Psychology is either a bioscience or a social sceicne depending on which approach you take.

I agree to your argument to some extent. However, to the very best of my knowledge, the most acceptable research currently says that you can, indeed, 'turn a gay man straight'. The problem as always, is ethics. It is unethical to alter someone's sexuality, but not remotely difficult. Standard aversion therapy combined with electro-convulsive therapies are generally considered 'effective' within a few months: faster than using NLP to deal with social anxiety.

Please submit research evidence supporting the claim that paedophiles are emotionally unstable, I have been unable to find research which makes this claim and I'd be interested in reviewing it. I'd also be interested in research which claims one is born with unstable emotions, as the consensus within academic psychology is that emotional disposition is generally the result of complex psychosocial factors, rather than simple biology. A neuroscientist would, of course, disagree with the stimulus-result.

I'm yet to actually come across a psychologist of note who doesn't combine pederasty (the attraction to pre-pubescent boys) with homosexuality - in terms of anthropology, little distinction is made, and pederasty is considered one of the three forms of homosexuality.

However, your argument is made clearly and concisely... so I support it.

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
1 point

anyone who believes in trait theory will believe that someone CAN BE born with certain traits (which includes emotion instability. don't confuse that with the common use of stableness. in psychology, it means something completely different.)

| Side: Psychology Explains Most

What is the point in this debate? Pedophilia or Homosexuality? That's like saying who's a better soccer team, the Philadelphia Eagles, or the Yankees?

| Side: they're in no way similar
2 points

I think that if we are to accept one, then in all fairness we should accept both. Let me rephrase that. Quit accepting homosexuality. Homosexuality is against the very laws of science. I don't care that it is caused by chemicals reacting to the brain. Men were created to breed with women. If this is indeed true than pedophilia can be more natural than homosexuality given the underage partner is of opposite sex of the offender. However our society has sat back and let homosexuals do what ever they please because we are afraid of offending them. In the past subjects such as divorce and homosexuality were taboo to talk about much less commit. And now we are accepting these subjects as common place. It's hard to watch an hour of television without seeing either a homosexual or a person who has gone through a divorce. If we don't straighten up(pun intended) as a society it's only a matter of time before we start accepting pedophilia and laugh at that goofy pedo on primetime.

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
zombee(1023) Disputed
0 points

"I think that if we are to accept one, then in all fairness we should accept both."

This is one of the weakest argument against homosexuality that I have come across.

Can you really not draw a distinction between two consenting adults in a relationship, and an adult who psychologically manipulates or physically forces a child into sex? Who is the victim in a homosexual relationship?

"Men were created to breed with women."

Biologically, yes, males and females are pretty well suited to making babies together. But luckily, people are not on the same level of brain function as animals anymore, and we do not have to mold our entire lives around the imperative to have children, if we don't want to.

| Side: they're in no way similar
IpsiDixit(8) Disputed
2 points

"Can you really not draw a distinction between two consenting adults in a relationship, and an adult who psychologically manipulates or physically forces a child into sex?"

Who gets to say what 'consenting' means and do adults really manipulate children they way you assume?

"Who is the victim in a homosexual relationship?"

The answer: society. Society may deem homosexuality to be just too disruptive and corruptive to be acceptable. (Isn't this the reason, after all, it was banned in the first place?)

"But luckily, people are not on the same level of brain function as animals anymore, and we do not have to mold our entire lives around the imperative to have children, if we don't want to.

That's right. And what goes for homosexuals and heterosexuals goes for pedosexuals too: you no longer have to be bound by an outdated system that pigeon-holes pepole according to their sexuality.

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
2 points

If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Paedophilia If Paedophilia Is a Choice So Also Is Homosexuality is the topic of debate I AGREE. But please don’t jump to conclusions without reading what I have written

PART 1

In fact primates & mammals so to speak also have sex with their offspring and also their biological parents. Oedipus complex was in fact termed by Freud in describing a male child having sexual feelings towards his biological mother. Which are in fact also natural feelings of love and sexuality. Now some people would say that they are "vegetarians" and are sick of seeing animals being killed BUT will not oppose people who do which in fact IMPOSES their beliefs into other people. Then why do those same people have in fact qualms regarding the fact that a 14 year old girl falling in love with a 45 year old man and having sexual intercourse and getting pregnant is seeing as virile and even disgusting?? It is a well known "Historical" fact that the term "adolescence" is in fact a newly coined term much like the term “paedophile” minimum average age of consensual sex in almost the whole world is around 18 when in fact neither the Romans/Aztecs/Greeks nor any other primitive or ancient culture nor civilization ever recognized such a distinctive age barrier or a term called "adolescence”. What is 18 anyway it is a number in the most absolute sense. If any person reading this was watching the Athens Olympics of 2004 as I was, a particular thing that I noticed were the female Gymnasts. When I was viewing this Russian gymnast I saw that when she bends you can see the creasing of her vagina through her tight rubber uniform and she also has wide hips and fully formed breasts and through her tight uniform you could also see her erected nipples. As much like any heterosexual what I felt was a sexual urge and a desire which in turn gave an erection when her age was displayed it said she was 14 years of age. Unfortunately her name escapes me. No I am not 45 years old (lol). So then isn't that a normal biological impulse?? when also in fact Greek cultures and even Medieval European and renaissance European cultures all embrace and allowed having sex with post and pre-pubescent children because they recognized that it was in fact a form of love and allowed as long as there was no acts of physical violence. One good example is Leonardo D Vinci. Yes you heard it right!! In 1476, he was twice accused – anonymously it has to be said – of sodomy with a 17 year-old model, Jacopo Saltarelli, a youth already known to the authorities for his sexual escapades with men. After two months in jail, Leonardo was acquitted, allegedly because no witnesses stepped forward, but one expert, James Saslow, makes clear that it was actually on the strength of Leonardo’s father’s respected position that the charges “were dropped”; in short, daddy made sure Leonardo did not have to pay for the crime; he may have (literally) paid for it. For some time afterwards, Leonardo and the other men involved were kept under observation by Florence’s Officers of the Night, a Renaissance organization charged with suppressing the practice of sodomy.

Since, his homosexuality has continued to be a cause of intrigue – though we should not see his left-handedness and his mirror writing as a “clear sign”, as some have all too silly interpreted it to be. Following this misfortune at a time when he may have been searching for his own sexual identity, did he abandon sex all together, as he would later claim? Perhaps, but unlikely, in spite of what he wrote down.

Leonardo had a servant and assistant, Caprotti il Salaino. Giorgio Vasari, Leonardo’s first biographer, described him as “a graceful and beautiful youth with fine curly hair, in which Leonardo greatly delighted”. Let us note that this description is very much the style in which Leonardo fashioned his John the Baptist: young, curly hair… and something feminine about him; the same applies to the other John, John the Evangelist, which Brown and others try to transform into Mary Magdalene.Just in case there remains any doubt about his sexual orientation: in 1506, Leonardo met Count Francesco Melzi, the 15 year old son of a Lombard aristocrat. Melzi described Leonardo’s feelings towards him as “a deeply passionate and most burning love”. Il Salaino eventually accepted Melzi’s continued presence and the three undertook several journeys throughout Italy. Times then were different than they are now, but it’s clear that if Da Vinci lived now, he would be described as favouring “young boys”… and would have been labelled a paedophile. Let us, however, note that now is different from then: sodomy and paedophilia in Florence in Leonardo’s day was not uncommon; it was practiced so much that it gave rise to those brigades, trying to control if not stamp out the practice. Now anyone who reads this will argue of course we all know that is "child abuse" almost all Psychological and Psychiatric data shows that children who had sexual relations with their parents/relative/adult have in fact developed a deep emotional bond with them as going far as defending them and their proposed "relationship" but then again you can argue but they are children they don't know. This a wrong assumption If you read an article on Daily telegraph of UK which appeared (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ crime/7760986/Boys-convicted-of-attempted-rape-branded-criminals-for-playing-doctors-and-nurses.html.) 2 boys of age 10 to 8 being convicted of rape. In order to be convicted of rape the party has to be guilty. If they’re guilty it means the boys in question knew what they were doing. What if I am to argue here and say that if a 45 year old man had sexual intercourse with that said pre-pubescent boys that would right. Then you can argue and say NO it isn’t they’re still children. If they were children why in heaven’s name would 2 pre pubescent boy be convicted of RAPE?!!?! But then again it isn’t right WHY???

Most of you might have heard the phrase “all heterosexual intercourse is rape” a famous Radical feminist slogan. What if i was to say it was TRUE!!! Now bear with me here most people have seen this as saying it is because the female is passive and the male is active then again what do all biological males have ?? A penis of course (& testes). Today it is also a very well known fact that if a man was to have sex with an inebriated/intoxicated woman he can be charged with Rape. What is rape?? Definition;

An unlawful sexual activity and usually sexual intercourse carried out forcibly or under threat of injury against the will usually of a female or with a person who is beneath a certain age or incapable of valid consent because of mental illness, mental deficiency, intoxication, unconsciousness, or deception —

NOTE: The common-law crime of rape involved a man having carnal knowledge of a woman not his wife through force and against her will, and required at least slight penetration of the penis into the vagina. While some states maintain essentially this definition of rape, most have broadened its scope esp. in terms of the sex of the persons and the nature of the acts involved. Marital status is usually irrelevant. Moreover, the crime is codified under various names, including first degree sexual assault sexual battery unlawful sexual intercourse , and first degree sexual abuse .

So then what is Intoxication? Definitions

1. Inebriation; drunkenness.

2. An act or instance of intoxicating.

3. Overpowering exhilaration or excitement of the mind or emotions.

4. Pathology. Poisoning.

Intoxicant definition; an agent that intoxicates

So what causes love?? If you don’t know the feeling of love is caused by a hormone called Oxytocin also known as alpha-hypophamine (α–hypophamine). Oxytocin is a mammalian hormone that acts primarily as a neurotransmitter in the brain. Anybody who has fallen in love knows it causes overpowering exhilaration or excitement of the mind or emotions thus Oxytocin is an agent that intoxicates. So every time you’re having sex with your wife or girlfriend you are raping her. Her consent is useless she is intoxicated with an intoxicant thus unable to control her actions. Coming back to the penis argument the human female lacks a penis or phallus enabling her to penetrate the vagina even though the vagina perspires when in desire the penis violates/penetrates the vagina it is a foreign object which is attached biologically to the male. Even though vaginal perspiration is caused through desire in heterosexual intercourse she is intoxicated with Oxytocin (love) for her Male counterpart ex; husband, boyfriend etc. So yes all Heterosexual intercourse is rape even in consensual adults. Anybody who is reading this might think why I am talking about heterosexual intercourse my answer is bear with me here.

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
2 points

PART 2

Nature has played a trick on men: production of spermatozoa occurs at

a rate several orders of magnitude greater than female ovulation (about 12

million per hour vs. 400 per lifetime). This is a natural, not a moral, fact. Among

the lower animals also, the male is grossly oversupplied with something for

which the female has only a limited demand. This means that the female

has far greater control over mating. The universal law of nature is that males

display and females choose. Male peacocks spread their tales, females choose.

Male rams butt horns, females choose. Among humans, boys try to impress

girls—and the girls choose. Nature dictates that in the mating dance, the male

must wait to be chosen.

A man’s sexual utopia is, accordingly, a world in which no such limit to

female demand for him exists. It is not necessary to resort to pornography for

examples. Consider only popular movies aimed at a male audience, such as the James Bond series. Women simply cannot resist James Bond. He does not

have to propose marriage, or even request dates. He simply walks into the

room and they swoon. The entertainment industry turns out endless unrealistic

images such as this. It is sometimes said that men are polygamous and women monogamous.

Such a belief is often implicit in the writings of male conservatives: Women

only want good husbands, but heartless men use and abandon them. Some

evidence does appear, prima facie, to support such a view. One 1994 survey

found that “while men projected they would ideally like six sex partners over

the next year, and eight over the next two years, women responded that their

ideal would be to have only one partner over the next year. And over two

years? The answer, for women, was still one.”1 Is this not evidence that women

are naturally monogamous?

No it is not. Women know their own sexual urges are unruly, but traditionally

have had enough sense to keep quiet about it. A husband’s belief

that his wife is naturally monogamous makes for his own peace of mind. It is

not to a wife’s advantage, either, that her husband understand her too well:

Knowledge is power. In short, we have here a kind of Platonic “noble lie”—a

belief which is salutary, although false.

It would be more accurate to say that the female sexual instinct is hypergamous.

Men may have a tendency to seek sexual variety, but women have

simple tastes in the manner of Oscar Wilde: They are always satisfied with the best. By defi nition, only one man can be the best. These different male and

female “sexual orientations” are clearly seen among the lower primates, e.g., in

a baboon pack. Females compete to mate at the top, males to get to the top.

Women, in fact, have a distinctive sexual utopia corresponding to their

hypergamous instincts. In its purely utopian form, it has two parts: First, she

mates with her incubus, the imaginary perfect man; and second, he “commits,”

or ceases mating with all other women. This is the formula of much pulp

romance fi ction. The fantasy is strictly utopian, partly because no perfect man

exists, but partly also because even if he did, it is logically impossible for him

to be the exclusive mate of all the women who desire him.

It is possible, however, to enable women to mate hypergamously, i.e.,

with the most sexually attractive (handsome or socially dominant) men. In the

Ecclesiazusae of Aristophanes the women of Athens stage a coup d’état. They

occupy the legislative assembly and barricade their husbands out. Then they

proceed to enact a law by which the most attractive males of the city will be

compelled to mate with each female in turn, beginning with the least attractive.

That is the female sexual utopia in power. Aristophanes had a better

understanding of the female mind than the average husband.

Hypergamy is not monogamy in the human sense. Although there may

be only one “alpha male” at the top of the pack at any given time, which one it

is changes over time. In human terms, this means the female is fickle, infatuated

with no more than one man at any given time, but not naturally loyal to

a husband over the course of a lifetime. In bygone days, it was permitted to

point out natural female inconstancy. Consult, for example, Ring Lardner’s

humorous story “I Can’t Breathe”—the private journal of an eighteen year old

girl who wants to marry a different young man every week. If surveyed on

her preferred number of “sex partners,” she would presumably respond one;

this does not mean she has any idea who it is.2

An important aspect of hypergamy is that it implies the rejection of most

males. Women are not so much naturally modest as naturally vain. They are

inclined to believe that only the “best” (most sexually attractive) man is worthy

of them. This is another common theme of popular romance (the beautiful

princess, surrounded by panting suitors, pined away hopelessly for a “real”

man—until, one day…etc.).

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
2 points

PART 3

Coming back to the argument of an 8 year old boy pre-pubescent boy having sexual intercourse with a 45 year old man; Children today know more about sex than their parents and each generation that appears an increase of this pattern can be seen. Thus the term “boy” can now be replaced with the term “male”. An 8 year old “male” having sexual intercourse with a 45 year old “male” is acceptable since the meaning of a word or term can be redefined for the convenience of the age thus becoming a common norm as well as ethically correct or good/right behaviour. An example can be seen in this definition; statutory rape is rape consisting of sexual intercourse with a person beneath an age (as 14 years) specified by statute

NOTE: Many state statutes also specify a minimum age of the perpetrator or an age differential (as at least four years) between the perpetrator and the victim. Consent of the victim and belief that the victim is of the age of consent are usually considered immaterial. Statutory rape is now codified under various names, such as rape in the second degree rape in the third degree unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor , and criminal sexual conduct in the second degree .

But then again laws can be changed. It is also a well known fact to an acute observer that the government of any nation always listens to a particular inflicted group of individuals who make the most amount of noise ex; LGBT rights.

Before discussing homosexuality let us go to a very simple way of life such as tribal life modern (untouched by modern civilisation) as well as ancient (Palaeolithic). What do you see in tribal males and females? The tribal males are completely different of that of modern or civilised males what you see is as I personally observed was the males are very robust and exploding with raw sexual energy and once the males would return from a hunt and approach the females, the females start to act in a strange manner what I observed was that the females were feeling a sense of vulnerability of that of getting the feeling of being over powered and also a form of subjugation to the male. A form of male dominance and a form of female oppression as we would coin today through our perceptions. But this sexual fantasy of being helpless is something deeply embedded into female sexual desire, not to mean of course she wants to be raped but this form of vulnerability and subjugation without any physical harm is of course something observed by many psychologists regarding the subject of human female sexual fantasies and can also be seen in homosexual sexual fantasies (gay “bottoms”, cross dresses etc).

Now let us discuss Homosexuality. If you know there really is no distinctive universal homosexual man or woman which means culture & conditioning also plays a huge part in it. There maybe those who are born with a strong natural desire/tendency towards it yet to say “People are born Gay period” is a simple answer like God created the universe in six days period. In the end the reason would differ from culture to culture, individual to individual, from time period to time period. Some Homosexuals would claim this and say “Alexander the Great was gay look homosexuals were in the military” ah that is a very blatant over simplification based on modern perception. In Ptolemaic times the Man was defined by the person who Penetrates and the woman and any other men are defined as the ones who got penetrated ex; effeminate males. This can be also seen in prisons for those who don’t know homosexuality is more common as well as violence in female prisons than that of male ones. Yes a straight person can be made gay you might ask how? Simple; pornography (oh no groan!!) If you were ever married or had a sexual relationship with your long standing girlfriend what do you notice. Things start to get boring when doing the same thing in the act of sexual intercourse, so you would start trying “new’ things. This same thing can be seeing when masturbating to pornography. Unlike sexual intercourse masturbation is very easy thus when viewing pornography the same thing such as girls with big tits start to get boring and sexual excitement which would trigger the process of an orgasm would start to change and when viewed for a long period of time sexual orgasm would start to get triggered when viewing something new/dirty/inappropriate/perverted/ etc the elements/types/variety of pornography which would fall under these categories would change over time. When coming to culture and conditioning Brazilian TRAVESTIS are a good such example. No they are NOT TRANSSEXUAL NOR HOMOSEXUAL. Even though most people are lead to believe them as such due to popular portrayal of them because of a few popularized Films/novels. Travestis consider them to be a 3rd gender much like the Hijras of India, Fa’fafingas of Samoa but with a twist. Hijras are mostly transsexual or homosexual but Travestis consider homosexual men to be liars, transsexuals to be mad and lesbians to be impossible. If you have watched the great Carnaval in Brazil in Rio you will see a lot of "hot" curvy women with big "bundas" (butts) and large breasts with hour glass shaped bodies which would make any heterosexual man get an erection and strong sexual attractions but here's the twist most of them are NOT WOMEN. They are men with appearances of women (who take/inject hormones and silicone to enhance their appearance) yet still have male genitals and want to KEEP their genitals because they consider the vagina to be impure which in turn also leads to their belief that lesbians are in fact not REAL since they lack the penis to penetrate their partner and transsexuals to be mad since they lose their sexual organs disabling them of having orgasmic release, using phallic devices by lesbians are considered to be a useless thing which cannot do the job PROPERLY. Homosexuals on the other hand are considered to be Liars because they BEHAVE AND DRESS LIKE MEN when in fact they are bitchas or viados (derogatory term referred to a person who "takes it up the back side" ex; faggot) They consider themselves THE TRAVESTIS to be the REAL HOMOSEXUALS (below; link of an extremely pretty one)

http://popprop.files.wordpress.com/2009/ 01/close18anos.jpg

Because of the fact that they get penetrated anally and thus take on the feminine role of the woman and they do not remove their penis or testis for the ones who do are considered as traitors and travesties almost always like straight heterosexual "macho" men who can in fact dominate them during the sexual act. Most of the travesties live very poor and even below poverty line but they do not prostitute themselves just for money they also get sexual satisfaction and "gender" satisfaction from it same can be seen with their boyfriends who are in fact not considered to be gay but here you get a Platonic twist of events because the travesties boyfriends do not provide for them but in fact gets provided by them if the boyfriend provides for the travesty they "dump" them same can be seeing if the boyfriend asks to be penetrated by his travesty Girlfriend for travesties only want to be penetrated not penetrate them and thus consider the penetrated boyfriend less macho and dumps him but they do penetrate their clients if asked whom they meet for sex and get a sexual pleasure from penetrating and getting penetrated however they dislike to penetrate women because of their disgust of the female vagina (yes the word penetrate appears too many times lol) and they also want their boyfriends to order them around saying things such as "Don't wear that skirt it is too short" but dump them if they provide a living for the travesty and they consider themselves to be the "real" homosexuals because God created man and woman for the purpose of reproduction and travesti is in fact a sexual variation of these 2 sexes/gender who is an embodiment of sexual pleasure and desire. When a transsexual (male to female) is asked the question would you be born a male or female should you be given the choice? They answer "female" because that is the sex they refer to within themselves ex; "a woman trapped in a man's body" vice versa. However when travesties are asked that same question they answer "..as a tavesti."

Travesties are in fact the lowest order of sex workers in brazil and in one of the lowest societal levels being subjected to violence and prejudiced by both hetero/homosexual men and women who consider them “bad” or gives them a bad name. So apparently the tolerance and love which homosexuals preach goes out of the window once their abodes of comfort and perfectness are threatened by a another minority but then again travesties do appear under the banner of LGBT rights parades and marches here they apply that age old logic {my}"enemy of my enemy is my friend" so the fact the united we stand banner of LGBT rights is in fact not so united with subgroups of homosexuals prejudicing each other as well as radical political activists within it trying to realize their social engineering ideological agendas by using LGBT rights as a cover before we talk about love or rights or nature to accept and justify anything we should in fact pay more attention and apply all those elements into other societal taboo's as well if we think "paedophilia' is a perversion or disgusting that is exactly what we thought of homosexuality 30/40 years ago much like homosexuality started to appear from the dark shadows of society to an "accepted" norm (coming out of the closet) so will paedophilia in another 1/2 decades or so which in fact it already is beginning to ex; Lolita (book/Film) and other feral desires/elements too under the banner of "rights" and also such logic as "live and let live" does not work either.Thus when this age restriction (number 18) is lifted or lowered the sexual relationship would be called heterosexual if between a male and a female, Homosexual if between 2 people of the same sex. In the western nations the homosexual is now beyond all criticism and the new scapegoat attacked upon is the paedophile when in fact an acute observer can see the thing that has happened is that the paedophile has replaced the homosexual in the arena of target practice the perfect "utopias" we are trying to build are contradicting each other and leads to our own downfall where in we remove rational, logical and even scientific thought for politically corrected activist propaganda. Which brings us to that age old question "Just because it is right should we allow it?"

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
2 points

If you are pro-homosexuality but against pedophilia then you are one closeted, repressed homo.

Pedophilia is just as natural as the heterosexuality. You don't choose to be a pedophile, just as you don't chose to be straight. Most men feel attracted to younger females, they just repress it.

And sex is natural too. Children are not asexual, children masturbate all the time.

Even 1-2yo infants masturbate when they are discovering the genitals.

The "You are not ready for sex yet" argument against the teenage sex is a truly a moronic one. How do you get get ready for sex? By reading about it from the books? Or by practicing it? Did you learn how to ride a bike from the theoretical "ride the bike education class"?

The "If a child is exposed to sex, his childhood will be ruined forever" argument is imbecile too. It's the "6 billions of us have sex, but let's hide and pretend we don't". How fuckn weird, huh? The children get themselves exposed to sex all the time, they know what is going on. Specially girls.

The romeo and juliete laws are bull too. The girl is allowed to have sex, but only with the younger unexperienced partners, that are more likely to get her pregnant. How stupid!

The actions should be judged on the case-by-case basis, not on one-size-fits-all policy.

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
zombee(1023) Disputed
1 point

If you are pro-homosexuality but against pedophilia then you are one closeted, repressed homo.

Opening with an absurd falsehood. A+.

Pedophilia is just as natural as the heterosexuality. You don't choose to be a pedophile, just as you don't chose to be straight. Most men feel attracted to younger females, they just repress it.

It may be natural for an adult to be attracted to adolescents, whether it is moral to act on that attraction or not.

But pedophilia is the attraction to prepubescent children. That is not natural, as it is all but unheard of in the rest of the natural world for an adult to rape an infant or juvenile. I would hazard a guess that 'most men’ would be disgusted by the thought of sex with a partner 12 years old or younger.

Also, just because an urge is natural doesn’t automatically mean one should engage in it. Infanticide is 'natural' in that it is common in nature and many of our close primate relatives engage in it, but it is a practice generally frowned upon in human society.

And sex is natural too. Children are not asexual, children masturbate all the time. Even 1-2yo infants masturbate when they are discovering the genitals.

This does not mean you should have sex with them.

If anything, the fact that children as young as one or two engage in sexually exploratory behavior is an excellent reason not to assume that such behavior means a child is ready for sex.

The "You are not ready for sex yet" argument against the teenage sex is a truly a moronic one. How do you get get ready for sex? By reading about it from the books? Or by practicing it? Did you learn how to ride a bike from the theoretical "ride the bike education class"?

When a teenager is ready for sex, they will generally seek it out – from someone in their own age bracket, almost every time. I am not even sure what you are arguing in this paragraph. Pedophiles are attracted to children, not teenagers, so teenagers are not really a part of this discussion.

The "If a child is exposed to sex, his childhood will be ruined forever" argument is imbecile too. It's the "6 billions of us have sex, but let's hide and pretend we don't". How fuckn weird, huh? The children get themselves exposed to sex all the time, they know what is going on. Specially girls

A child being exposed to sex via innuendo, illustrations, TV, or whatnot is so incredibly different from an adult in a position of trust manipulating or forcing a child into sexual contact that I am having trouble believing you are seriously making the comparison. Children are naturally curious about everything, including sex, but the situations they seek out are ones in which they still feel safe and have control, such as masturbation or sexualized play with peers. 40% of incidents of pedophilia involve the victim being raped, beaten, or murdered, and who knows what huge percentage of the rest involve psychological torment or the threat of physical violence. It's kind of hard to argue that this kind of exposure to sex will not damage a childhood.

The romeo and juliete laws are bull too. The girl is allowed to have sex, but only with the younger unexperienced partners, that are more likely to get her pregnant. How stupid!

What are you talking about and what does this have to do with pedophilia or homosexuality?

The actions should be judged on the case-by-case basis, not on one-size-fits-all policy.

What does this mean in the context of pedophilia? That it should be allowed to occur, and only after it occurs, should it be deemed illegal or not?

Supporting Evidence: Child Molester Statistics (www.yellodyno.com)
| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
2 points

There is no scientific evidence that pedophilia is genetic.

There is so much scientific evidence that homosexuality is genetic that it's generally agreed upon by scientists that most homosexuals are genetically predisposed being homosexual.

| Side: they're in no way similar
2 points

people alway say, "let gays alone! they can't help who they love!" well, pedophiles cannot help who they love and are attracted to either. I'm not really sure what causes pedophilia, so I'm not saying it's natural, but i do know that pedophiles cannot control their thoughts towards kids. If society is going to have all of this sympathy for gays because they cant control who they love, well then i think it's only fair for people to see the similarity in pedophiles. after all, love is love...right?

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
1 point

I don't think anyone could explain this better than Xaeon did. And it's a good point that whether or not it's natural should not be a concern anyway.

The end all is that no one is hurt, it's between two consenting adults, and nobodies business.

That said though, again as Xaeon said, it is natural. People are born gay.

Not just people, pandas, swans, monkeys, and every other mamal in the world has a percentage of its population that is gay. link

If one were to argue that being gay is a choice, they would also have to argue that two male swans who are gay, are choosing to be gay.

So please, find me a swan that is making a conscious decision anywhere. Animals work on instinct, they don't make "lifestyle choices."

Now, people for the most part aren't slaves to instinct. But we have it, just like animals. If one, like the gay swan, has gay instincts, there are 0 logical reasons they should not pursue it. Infact, not being gay if you're gay leads to mental and physical health problems. link

Anyway, pedophiles, whether it's natural or not (I'm guessing not, but a result of abuse that lead to deviance; though my big turtle keeps trying to screw my little turtle) is not an issue.

Because unlike a homosexual couple, pedophilia is not consenting, or between adults. There is a victim. There is no victim in homosexuality.

I would like to ad that there is a 100% effective cure for pedophilia that for some reason people are reluctant to implement. You can cut it off.

Sounds macabre, but if done by a doc, very safe, and again 100% effective. After time without the unit, a person loses their sex drive completely, so it's not like they're running around like a dog, humping the couch because they don't have thumbs to jack off. They become completely A sexual. This should be mandatory treatment. Unless they had acted on the desire, in which case death should be the mandatory treatment.

| Side: they're in no way similar

But what about female pedophiles? Do we sew it up? Can a woman lose her sexual drive completely? What about her mouth, her hands, her feet, her A$$?

| Side: they're in no way similar
2 points

Female peodophiles in this day and age are as common as male peodophiles it seems.

Adult females , who seduce minors into sexual activity are just as guilty of peodophillia as those men who do the same.

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
leblueboy(7) Disputed
2 points

You're making some fantastic proclamations... with no evidence. I'm a social scientist by education and profession, and I have seen some fantastic debates about instinct-vs-conscious choice. No one knows whether animals work entirely on instinct, and no one knows if humans don't.

You are, once again, misunderstanding the concept of paedophilia. To abuse a child is to be a child abuser, just as to force an adult into sex is rape. To be a paedophile is not automatically to be a child abuser any more than to be heterosexual is to be a rapist.

Paedophilia is not consenting in legal terms, that does not mean it is not consenting in social terms. There is a great difference made - in legal terms, one must actually state "i provide consent" (the purpose of a rape trial is to provide evidence that consent was provided, not to provide evidence that it was not), which means 99% of people have not given consent whilst having sex, in legal terms.

As for your wonderful treatment idea: what about those who are later found to be innocent (around 45% of sex-offenders, in Europe)?

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
iamdavidh(4850) Disputed
1 point

So you believe that gay swans make a conscious decision to be gay? If so you are mistaken, sexual preference is not a choice at all, for any species. A gay person can no more choose to suddenly be attracted to the opposite sex than a straight person can choose to be attracted to the same sex... go ahead, try if you don't believe me. And the exact same is true for a pedophile, they have no choice in the attraction, only in carrying out their desires.

And I never made the claim that a pedophile has no choice but to abuse a child, I am making the claim that they have no choice but to want to abuse a child. Any sexual activity between an adult and a child is abuse, do you understand that much at least? Consent plays 0 role in that situation. And it weekens your arguement greatly when you attempt to focus in on a point, simply because I did not fully explain the situation, when the situation is so easily infered. Try arguing my point instead of spending a paragraph on semantics.

Anyway, a heterosexual does not have to have consenting sex with a woman, but they have to want to.

It's part of who they are, they can't help it you understand? It's the same for any attraction, legal or not, gay or not, weird or normal. Attraction is not something one chooses.

I'm not misunderstanding at all, I understand perfectly. You are the one who does not only misunderstands the nature of any fixation, whether it's pedophilia, or some perfectly legal fixation, but you also misunderstand my arguement for the treatment of pedophilia.

1. it's reversible

2. it's chemical, no knives involved

So yeah, it is a wonderful treatment, and one who was found later to be innocent would be taken off of the drugs that cause impotance, just as one jailed and later found innocent should be released from jail.

By your logic, one found guilty could never be jailed, because they may be found innocent later.

Yeah, you're arguement is ridiculous, why do you spend so much time focusing on the difference between legal and social consent? Consent is impossible in the case of pedophilia, social or legal.

| Side: they're in no way similar
nrockerz(1) Disputed
1 point

Remove the age barrier 18 then what??? you're 72 he is 13 ah ....gay...too

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
1 point

Hi. I was looking for a discussion on this topic as recently I've been pondering on the reasons that drive Pedophilia. I read some interesting points on this debate and I would like to give my opinion on a couple...I also study Psych and good point to the person who picked up on it being Scientific :) I would say Psych uses both fields...behavioural and social.

Now considering Nature and Nurture debate (which I fully endorse) I would say that Homosexuality is a lot more 'grey' than we are led to believe. Similar to gender really... We only have to think of a few hundred of years back when men valued being with men more than women actually. Since then, society changed the 'moral' codes and made homosexuality 'abnormal'. The only thing that was abnormal about it back then, was the value of one sex more than the other.

Would it be anarchy if society didn't dictate gender and sexuality to us...

Coming back to pedophilia...If we think of the evolutionary theory then yes, I agree with those that we tend to be attracted to childish features. We are also probably inclined to protect the young for the same reason. So we've come up with what 'acceptable' behaviour is with children. This is why the age differs with cultures and usually has a lot to do with education. The more people know/learn the more 'informed' the behaviour is.

However, if the evolution theory is correct than men’s attraction to children doesn't explain why some women also molest their children. That doesn't support much evolution, not in a way that we like anyway (e.g. killing the gene pool etc).

I think it is psychological...which can be genetic as well as environmental. Perhaps these people are born with certain tendencies that are activated in combination with the wrong environment.

I would like to learn more about this.... The more we understand about the 'condition' the more we can help. I think both parties are victims here. They both need help. Early sexuality (whether you are a minor or not) can affect anyone so it is not hard these days to prove how it affects children. On the other hand, the perpetrator has his/hers life story.

As far as homosexuality goes...why not let the person decide how they want to live their life as adults. They're not hurting you or anyone else...They might even be doing what is natural to us humans...things like being happy, love and care…Homosexuality really doesn't take away from the ability to procreate or nurture....society might just have to accept that sexuality is a grey area and different to procreation.

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
1 point

IT WILL COME TO PASS U BUGGERS CAN CHOP BALLS OFF BLOW YOUR HEADS OUT BUT MARK MY WORDS IT WILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
1 point

This is a tough question for me to answer. I am not a scientist but a 19 year old student in college. Before i start, i would like to say that i do not approve of the practice of hurting children.

I keep asking myself if pedophilia can be natural. I ask myself that because pedophilia is the attraction to children and not the action of hurting children. I believe that society today changed the definition of pedophilia from attraction to children to child molestion. In my argument, i am talking about the attraction to children.

What if we live in a society where attraction of men to women and of women to men was consider bad? And attraction of men to men and of women to women was considered ok? You will force yourself to society terms, but you cannot rid yourself of that attraction. And if you can say yes, then change your partner to the same sex as you. If you are like me, then you will say no.

Attraction is natural. And it is hard to say that attraction to children is natural. But there is a lot of homosexuals in this world. And it was not long ago that attraction to men was considered a sin; a disgusted sin. And at that point, it was unlikely that homosexuality was going to be approve. So if there is a lot of pedophilies on this earth, can we also say the same argument. Remember readers, pedophilia and homosexuality is attraction and not action.

But before i continue onward, ask yourself this: Why is pedophilia wrong? My answer is society. Society has formed itself in a way to make things look bad and good. Why don't you see guys showing their stomach that girls do today? Why don't men where scarfs as a fashion style? Why don't guys wear makeup? It is because society thinks it is homosexual. And thus, the people will follow society rules so he/she won't be outcasted. What am i truly saying is that: Most people do not know why pedophilia is wrong? Most people will say that because hurting children is wrong. Well, like is said before, pedophilia is attraction. Not action.

In conclusion, without the rules of society, pedophilia is not wrong. Why? Because it is attraction and not action. Child molestation is wrong but that is not pedophilia. Pedophilia is not the act of having sex with a child.

However, (and this is a huge however), pedophilia should only be a concern. Why? Because attraction can lead to action.

If you still think pedophilia is wrong then ask yourself these questions:

What if everyone in society was considered pedophiles? We will all become common and all negative views on pedophilia will not exist.

What if we live in a world where your attraction to a person was considered wrong? You can change your partner to society terms but you cannot eliminate your attraction. Attraction is natural and not a choice.

Pedophilia is natural and not a choice.

Thus, if attraction is natural, homosexuality and pedophilia is natural.

But i know the reason why people think pedophilia is wrong because their mind is stuck on action and not attraction. The sexual act (pedophilia is not a sexual act) between two homosexual adults is legal. However, the sexual act between an adult and child is illegal because...

1. The child will be in tremendous pain which makes it illegal. But in reality, society makes it illegal. We have wars and that brings pain.

2. Most importantly, a child cannot consent.

And this brings a whole new question: How old can a child be if he/she cannot consent? Society says that a child is an adult at 18 years of age. But it is not like the second before the person turns 18, that he/she is not an adult. In other words, if you are 17 going on to 18, and your birthday is a month away, you are basically 18 years old; you are not far away from your birthday.

I don't think that matters because the parent can only decide what his/her child can do and where his/her child can be. I think children can consent about sex but it depends how he/she was raise, and how he/she was taught, and where he/she was raise.

Pedophilia is natural. But child molestation is not. End of case.

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex

You know what. I am not sure if pedophiles are born that way, or if it is a choice. All I know is it hurts children and should be illegal either way. The only point behind arguing on whether it is a choice or not, is to come up with an acceptable punishment. If its a choice, then it can be fixed with years of psychological help. If its not a choice, and you are born that way, than it may have a chance to be cured, but if it can't be cured, then a life time in prison is the only option left.

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
1 point

The link may simply be that the act is not normal. Because if it where normal the process, both human sexes would be able to create life. That is what you see every where in the animal kingdom. If an animal can have offspring it does it eith asexual or it is capable of having both sexs at the same time or it naturally changes to the other sex. The fact that only one sexes can do this naturaly ( i mean with without outside help) in humans. Making these acts unatural because humans natural instinct to procreate wich is what drives the sexual drive of humans. Making these acts unnatural.

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
1 point

Pedophilia and Homosexuality are natural. The difference bring. If acted upon, pedophilia harms and is almost always destructive to everyone involved. Therefore we can conclude this attraction, while natural, is bad in our society.

Homosexuality brings no harm on it's own when acted upon that Heterosexuality would bring.

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
1 point

know one choses to be atracted to childen anymore than someone choses to be atracted to adults. in fact, there is no explination why we become atracted to adults anymore than whay a person becomes atracted to children. if your realy consered about the issu downlosd the movie, Are All Men Pedophiles?.

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
1 point

i'm 25 years old and i'd have sex with a 13 year old if she was willing to give the pussy up.

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
1 point

People do not choose who they are attracted too. .

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
0 points

Homosexuality has been proven not to be a choice. You are born being a homosexual. Pedophiliacs are messed up in the mind. That is a choice homosexuality is not.

| Side: they're in no way similar
leblueboy(7) Disputed
2 points

Proofs do not exist outwith mathematics. There is no evidence to say that paedophilia is an active choice - in actuality, there is a large amount of evidence to say that it is the result of complex biopsychosocial factors, as is any other sexual orientation.

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
1 point

Proofs do not exist outwith mathematics. There is no evidence to say that paedophilia is an active choice - in actuality, there is a large amount of evidence to say that it is the result of complex biopsychosocial factors, as is any other sexual orientation.

Bloody brilliant mate.

After reading my argument I must say, what was I thinking!?

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
nrockerz(1) Disputed
1 point

40's argument detected....Heterosexuality has being proven not to be a choice.you are born being a heterosexual.Faggots are messed up in the mind.that is a choice hetero is not.

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
DaWolfman(3287) Disputed
3 points

Easy rocker, eaaasssyyyy boy.

I had already corrected myself on this 550 day argument less than a month ago, right above this post you have here.

You see being a teenager it takes time for me to learn and begin to understand things such as psychology, something which I am now studying.

When I had posted that I was extremely blind to quite a lot, but I'm still learning from my mistakes.

My posts become slightly more mature as I advance in age, so if you see something that is well over a year old and sounds like pure gibberish trust me it probably is. Chances are close to a hundred percent that I no longer hold the same view point.

| Side: Psychology Explains Most
Ettina(6) Disputed
1 point

"Pedophiliacs are messed up in the mind. That is a choice homosexuality is not."

How the heck is being messed up in the mind a choice? That makes about as much sense as claiming that being an amputee is a choice.

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
0 points

Well Pedophilia is not a sexual orientation, for starters. But it is wrong. Why? Because it is the sexual attraction of a pre-pubescent human being. This is completely wrong. The point of sexual maturity in nature is to attract the opposite sex (or in some cases the same sex). Very rarely do you see animals attracted to the young of their species. A child should be completely unattractive to a mature adult, seeing as sexual maturity would attract the adult, and pedophilia is also wrong because a child is not ready for sex. Not only are they not ready for sex, but they don't WANT to have sex. That means it's forced sex as well!

| Side: Psychology Explains Most
IpsiDixit(8) Disputed
2 points

"Well Pedophilia is not a sexual orientation, for starters."

To say that a persons sexual orientation (i.e. the group that they identify themselves as being sexually attracted to) is not a sexual orientation is a non sequitor of the highest order. Meaning it is a logical absurdity and makes no sense at all. For instance, a homosexual, presumably, identifies their sexual orientation as being directed primarily or exclusively towards members of the same sex/gender. Similarly, a heterosexual would identify themselves as being sexually attracted to (that is, having a sexual orientation towards) members of the opposite sex/gender. I'm sure you would agree - no? Ergo, it logically follows that a pedosexual, by being primarily or exclusively attracted to prepubescent children and peri-pubescent youth, has also a 'sexual orientation'. Yes?

| Side: One little point
MKIced(2308) Disputed
0 points

While this makes sense, I still wouldn't consider it a sexual orientation, but rather a sexual disorder or a psychological disorder. They might be attracted to children, but that's just not how nature works. Mature animals of any species tend to not mate with the offspring of their species because it doesn't get you anything (i.e. children).

That being said, homosexuality is a little different because I believe it's more like a chemical change in the brain that makes a man more feminine (and attracted to men) or a woman more masculine (and attracted to women).

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
leblueboy(7) Disputed
1 point

You're making it a moral argument, and it's not, it's a scientific one. Morals have no place within science.

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
MKIced(2308) Disputed
1 point

Morals are important in everything. Try to run a world where nobody has any morals whatsoever. It'd be chaos.

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
IDemosthenes(6) Disputed
1 point

You're wrong. Morals have everything to do with science. Theism might not have anything to do with science. Morals do however.

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
1 point

Morals have nothing to do with science. This does not mean they're not important.

Science asks about what is. Morality asks about what should be. Those are different questions.

Now, one can inform the other, for example, if you have the moral rule that 'causing harm to others is bad', you can use science to test whether certain actions do, in fact, cause harm. But it's important not to confuse what is and what should be, because those are two distinct ideas.

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
IDemosthenes(6) Disputed
1 point

First off You are wrong about animals being sexually attracted to their offspring. My cats do it all the time. One will have kittens. when the kittens are of breeding age. The father cat will breed with them and produce 5 or 6 new little partners for them to mate with. And before you say anything about pedophilia being different I think if it is any different (which is really isn't seeing as a 12 year old girl is of breeding age seeing as she can give birth then) I think pedophilia in some cases can be better than your pet example seeing as pets will engage in both pedophilia and incest. Second off you are also wrong when saying that it is sometimes natural for an animal to be attracted to the same sex. In what ways is that natural? It serves no scientific purpose. If the purpose in life is to pass on one's genes than there is no purpose for them to be alive.

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
Ettina(6) Disputed
1 point

Technically, pedophilia is attraction to prepubertal children. Being attracted to pubertal children is normal, but most people chose not to act on it.

And most 12 year old girls aren't fertile yet. Only the early developers are. In fact, most girls become fertile a few years after they start having their period, although that's not universal.

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
MKIced(2308) Disputed
0 points

Actually, if you read it I stated "Because it is the sexual attraction of a pre-pubescent human being. This is completely wrong. ........ Very rarely do you see animals attracted to the young of their species."

That means that animals don't have sex with their young. And you just proved my point because the father cat waited until its baby cats were sexually mature. It's still incest, which is just gross, but I didn't say anything wrong.

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
nrockerz(1) Disputed
1 point

2 PRE-PUBESCENT BOYS 10 & 8 GOT CONVICTED OF RAPE.....INNOCENT WHAAATTTT ?!?!?!?!?!?!

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
0 points

Homosexuality may be a choice, but it is still illegal if done by somebody above the age of eighteen with somebody below the age of eighteen - as is all other forms of intercourse. Both people must be able to consent to the intercourse - pre-pubescent children are incapable of consenting according to the law, thus it is illegal.

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
-1 points

Now as we can see, I in no way think neither are natural, I think that we do not even think of a sexual prefrence until we are teenagers. Nor do I think it is okay to teach our children that such is natural, of course we need to be loving and accepting towards gay people, I don't know a person in thier right mind who is going to just walk up to a man who has molested or hurt little boys and girls and say "Hey man no worries its a natural thing". Just my thoughts, who thinks you can even relate the 2 anyways.

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
jessald(1906) Disputed
1 point

Some evidence pointing to homosexuality being natural:

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/ 0,8599,1815538,00.html

The causes of pedophilia are still unknown:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/pedophilia.html

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
IDemosthenes(6) Disputed
1 point

No, sadly the world thinks that we need to be loving and supporting of homosexuals. Truth is we don't. and we shouldn't. It's only going to cause us to accept more horrid forms of sexual perversion.

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
1 point

i am not a religious fundamentalist or anything i'm not religious at all but in the most absolute sense i agree with you 99.9%

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
Ettina(6) Disputed
1 point

This is just ridiculous. All you need to do is follow one simple rule: sexual actions that cause harm are forbidden, anything else goes. That's an easy way to allow homosexuality while forbidding pedophilia.

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
DaWolfman(3287) Disputed
0 points

So if you were born a homosexual, you would think to yourself ...

I want everyone to hate me for who I am, after all if people accept me for being homosexual the whole world will explode.

Fuck that.

If you are born something then you are born something, ya digg? If two consenting adults want to have sex, who gives a shit? If a pedophile wants to molest a child, people do give a shit and rightfully. Molesting and consensual sex aren't the same thing, just as sexual perverts are not the same as your average homosexual.

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex
DaWolfman(3287) Disputed
1 point

Now as we can see, I in no way think neither are natural

If it occurs in nature is it not by definition natural?

| Side: "If Homosexuality Is Natural So Is Pedophilia If Pedophilia Is A Choice So Also Is Homosex


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