CreateDebate


Debate Info

3
29
Absolutely Uhhh, NO
Debate Score:32
Arguments:17
Total Votes:33
More Stats

Argument Ratio

side graph
 
 Absolutely (2)
 
 Uhhh, NO (13)

Debate Creator

excon(4253) pic



If I ask a female co-worker out on a date, and she didn't LIKE it, is THAT harassment?

Hello: 

Truth is, I don't know what sexual harassment IS.  Have I put my hand on a ladies breast UNINVITED???  I HAVE..  In fact, I've NEVER been invited to touch a ladies breast..  In intimate circumstances, I do it until I'm told NO. 

Or, that's WRONG..  See??  I told you that I don't know what it is..

excon

Absolutely

Side Score: 3
VS.

Uhhh, NO

Side Score: 29
0 points

Okay, so i don't believe that asking your female co-worker on a date that she didn't like is wrong. But doing something sexual until being told no is not right. I am in no way attacking you in particular, but because you posed the question I am going to state my opinion.

Now I know constant is a very talked about thing that can be very controversial, but lets face it, yes means yes and no means no. As a women I believe that until the women gives consent it CAN be considered harassment, not that it always SHOULD be.

Take for example: if a women is intoxicated and you and her end up having intercourse, without of course her consent, she could claim that it was harassment, because she didn't say yes. Of course, in most circumstances, that wouldn't happen. My main problem with your statement, is "keep doing what I am doing until I am told no". Just because she didn't say no, does not mean she doesn't want it.

Side: Absolutely
6 points

If you just ask her out once and she says no then you move on, I don't see why it would be.

Side: Uhhh, NO
4 points

This strikes a nerve with me, and has, for some time. Is it sexual attention? Likely, yes. If she didn't like it, that makes it unwanted sexual attention. Holy fuck, that's lock 'em up territory, in these days.

That's insane.

I recently argued with a man on YouTube who had the idea that a touch on the arm, a consoling hug, literally any touch of a woman by a man, should be off limits in the workplace, and if not specifically wanted, within the realm of sexual harassment.

I think that's insane.

We're at the point where we know scientifically that lacking in touch can literally cause mental disorders, potentially even creating sociopaths, and yet we're doing everything possible to make any touching of fellow humans a possible crime.

Have we already lost our collective minds? I come from the end of the "free love" generation...the sexual revolution...this is not what we had in mind.

Side: Uhhh, NO
3 points

Someone once said, don't say anything to a woman that you wouldn't want a guy saying to you in a prison shower. I would expand that to add the word touch, as well. But there are acceptable addendum's such as if the woman is a close friend, family or lover. It will always depend on the situation and relation but if it's a co-worker, stick as close to that saying as possible.

Let me share one of my own experiences. A manager of another department who works in the same room as mine, came up to me and put his hands on my shoulder and started rubbing it for about three seconds before I pulled away. I tried not to think much of it but about 10 minutes later he came back and bumped his rear on my chair in a joking gesture. Now we've been nice to each other, I have candy at my desk for everyone but that was unwanted and it left me in an uncomfortable situation. I'm married, he's married, I don't think he meant anything by it but at no point have we ever been in a relationship where I want to be touched by him or encouraged it. I went home and talked to my husband about how it made me feel and I gave it some time, and so far nothing else has happened so I'm glad but it put me in an uncomfortable situation. Bringing it up to my managers would cause nothing but strife in the office. I "think" it was just him being playful but again, we don't have that kind of relationship and unless I really know a person I do not want to be touched by them.

So I think people who work with people are in difficult situations. He could easily have been in a good mood and just playing around, anyone could. I think there are people who take things too far both in accusations and actions so it's a tricky rope we walk.

Side: Uhhh, NO
2 points

Hi, Mint.

A manager of another department who works in the same room as mine, came up to me and put his hands on my shoulder...

I "think" it was just him being playful but again, we don't have that kind of relationship and unless I really know a person I do not want to be touched by them.

Yep.

I am on friendly terms with my boss, but we never socialize outside of work. At work we talk about home remodeling projects, wives, and family, but most of our conversations at work are about work.

A couple months ago, he came up behind me while I was at my desk, and got my attention with a friendly squeeze on my shoulder. It lasted what seemed like a long time, 2-5 seconds.

This made me feel uncomfortable, NOT because there was anything sexual about it. There was NOT; it was simple, friendliness.

Even so, I was uncomfortable. I had to either ignore it or tell him that I do not want to be more socially involved with my coworkers than casual conversation.

This is easiest when the only physical contact at work is a handshake at appropriate moments, generally, the first time you meet and the last time you say goodbye.

A lot of what some people like about work is that it is about the work. When we are at work, we don't have to deal with relationships that are more complex than are required to get things done.

Non-work relationships like dating, or even being poker buddies are for outside the workplace with people we do not work with. Affectionate touching or anything that involves more intimacy than handshakes is also for outside those work relationships.

There is nothing mysterious about this. Work is not about friendships.

It is just about getting stuff done.

So people need to just keep our hands to ourselves.

.

Side: Uhhh, NO
2 points

@EldonG.

I think you make a lot of good points here.

Also, Males and Females (or M-M, F-F) "hitting on" each other by various means is part of being human and I think sexual harassment has been tending to overextend exceedingly into interfering with relatively innocuous versions of this social dynamic. Now, having said that, there are most definitely legitimate forms of Sexual Harassment that require condemnation. I am just wary that too much human behavior on this front is being umbrella termed to a harmful extent.

Also, does anyone (else) think there tends to be a double standard with sexual harassment classifications/allegations between males and females?

Side: Uhhh, NO
FromWithin(5435) Disputed
2 points

You and our nation is coming out from the natural normal moral values derived from our Christian heritage.

The free love and sexual revolution was the result, and what you are seeing from the feminist movement is all a part of it.

All common sense has been turned upside down by political correct anti God extremists.

You are correct, a simple touch of a woman's arm, or a non sexual hug should never be considered harassment unless the woman has warned a person before not to do it.

Without God, mankind becomes a Collective of insecure dsyfunctional alarmists.

Side: Absolutely
xMathFanx(671) Clarified
2 points

@FromWithin

The free love and sexual revolution was the result, and what you are seeing from the feminist movement is all a part of it.

I have partial agreement with you here. Isn't one of the staples of "Third Wave Feminism" being hyper-accusatory with sexual harassment/sexual exploitation, ect.? Also, isn't there quite a double standard here with men as opposed to women? I think this is a large part of the issue with over-extended claims of sexual harassment.

Side: Absolutely
AlofRI(1831) Clarified
1 point

EldonG

That guy on the internet, was his name Pence?? ;<)

Side: Absolutely
3 points

If you asked just once, nicely, and she said no, and then you let it be, then that's probably the end of it and not harrassment.

If you ask again after she already said no, won't leave her alone, say something rude, etc, then it is harrassment.

Side: Uhhh, NO
2 points

If you go back, over and over ... and get the same result, it's stupidity, and THAT could be.

Side: Uhhh, NO
1 point

no that is not harassment. it never was and it never will be.

Side: Uhhh, NO
1 point

Asking a girl out one time is not harassment. If you keep asking her out when she isn't interested in you then it would be.

Side: Uhhh, NO
1 point

I'm an octogenarian now, which means when I found myself single in my 30's it was during the "free love" years. During that time, mostly, I "made love" with 60+ women. I am confident none will be "coming after me" for sexual harassment. I find it difficult to understand why a man needs to harass a woman for sex. Just be nice to them, if they're interested in you, they'll let you know ... otherwise find someone that IS. It's not that hard! (Well, it didn't USED to be that hard!) ;<(

Side: Uhhh, NO