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Things will improve. Obama has made countless improvements over the past four years. Take a look at this graph about job creation shown below.
It's true that Obama did not live up to every single one of his promises four years ago, but please remember that the market crashed. He had a gargantuan crisis to work with, and he handled it marvelously.
In the next four years, if Obama is reelected, things will continue to get better.
Your right it hasn't been four years of Obama improving things, it was the first 2 years and the second 2 having the Republican party saying no.
No to fixing the economy.
No to a working budget.
No to health care.
I have yet to see Congress giving up their health care. If the Republicans want to rid of something; I suggest they start with their benefits, not every one else's.
You say you don't believe in socialism, but I beg to differ. Are you willing to shed blood, sweat and tears for your job? I doubt it. Most people merely want a paycheck without earning it, a hand out by most standards.
Have you or do you ever plan on drawing unemployment? A handout.
Do you planning on drawing Social Security? A handout.
Employers have to pay into these, so you can gain there benefits. I suggest before you knock charity, you find out whether you're on it.
Are you willing to shed blood, sweat, and tears for your job? I doubt it
Actually, yes. My job causes me to sweat and occasionally bleed. As for tears, in my line of work I prevent tears (that sounded cheesy lol).
Most people merely want a paycheck without earning it, a hand out by most standards.
I agree that most people would like to be given "free money" so to speak, but that is not how our society works.
Okay... It's starting to become clear to me why you support Obama. So what is your point? That America already is socialist? That's bullshit and you know it. Do you support Obama because you are a democrat or because you just think he is a good president, or maybe you support socialism?
I supported him in 2008. That sure isn't going to happen again.
Actually, yes. My job causes me to sweat and occasionally bleed. As for tears, in my line of work I prevent tears (that sounded cheesy lol).
I'm impressed that there is still an American that works. Now how many hours do you consider to be a work week? 40, 60, 80, 100.
I agree that most people would like to be given "free money" so to speak, but that is not how our society works.
Society works the way it's people do. For over twenty years I have had employees, I know about people. As I get older, my views have changed. "If you can't beat'em, join'em."
I support Obama, because he actually stands for something and it doesn't change. What does Romney stand for today? I doubt if he even knows any more, it changes when the wind blows. A leader should lead, not follow the latest trends.
Why are you supporting Romney, not Obama? Another Flip Flopping Mitt among us?
I'm impressed that there is still an American that works. Now how many hours do you consider to be a work week? 40, 60, 80, 100.
40, not including overtime.
"If you can't beat'em, join'em."
I live more by the mentality "if you can't beat em, then they can go fuck themselves".
I support Obama because he actually stands for something and it doesn't change
So did Hitler. He was a real inspirational figure, wasn't he? What exactly does Obama stand for, though? "Hope"? "Change"? I don't think I like his idea of "change". Obamacare, he stands for that shit doesn't he? I'm tired of him standing, he needs to go sit down.
When you work 25 years between 80-100 hrs a week, you can join the real man's club. Until then continue to hang with the boys.
Okay, I see you are trying to pull the Experienced Old Man card here, which I don't doubt you are. For all I know you could have been working as a gay stripper for all those years, which would explain your "man's club".
We'll see how long you keep this up. I kept it up for 20 years. Let me me know when you get there.
I'll let you know, as long as you aren't too busy at the "man's club".
He stands for building a better USA, not a richer one for a few
By making everyone middle class? That is called a SOCIALISM! Oh, wait... You support socialism. What is the point in arguing? The worst thing about him is something that you believe in. 80% of Americans disapprove of Socialism. Why is that? Probably because it's right below Communism! Do you believe in communism?
Okay, I see you are trying to pull the Experienced Old Man card here, which I don't doubt you are. For all I know you could have been working as a gay stripper for all those years, which would explain your "man's club".
It's not just a man's club, it is the "Real Man's Club". Total straight, but not shocked that you'd be thinking of me in this way. It was not until recently that I became a male stripper, there is three of us at the local bar. First there is me at 49, Dean at 68 and Harry at 35 years old. I consider myself to be the most attractive, Dean being 68 and Harry weigh 390 pounds.
I'll let you know, as long as you aren't too busy at the "man's club".
We only meet twice a month and so I can work you in.
Hahaha! Oh man, that is gross. It sounds like you need a midget to complete your crew (which I am not). You guys could dress up like the village people.
Well, Obama is handing out food stamps for free like no one ever has before... and you can probably cash them in for liquor? Barry doesn't care... as long as you're dependent on the 'gubernent' Obama can count on your vote. ;)
I never said food stamps were a welfare program, not that that makes any difference anyway. Food stamps are still paid for by the tax payer and they still make people dependent on government and they have been increased like never before under this POS... sorry, I meant POTUS. ;)
So, you're say it is better to let women and children starve rather to feed them?
Room for thought; If more people are buying a product isn't this a stimulus package for the economy. Would you rather give this money to Dupont so agricultural seed and chemicals cost less?
Right, but it will make sure that every person will end up with health care, and will help health care be more affordable.
Also, if things are free, do you think that makes them better? You still have to work for things you get, that is the basis of Capitalism. If ObamaCare gave you free health care, our country's economy would plummet, people would be getting things for nothing, and part of the basis of our country would be destroyed.
According to that graph nothing has changed from a job creation point of view from the time President Obama had a super majority in congress to the time the Republicans took the house so it's clearly irrelevant. Besides that, Republicans took the house because America voted them in from absolute traumatizing fear of what would happen next if the super majority continued! And it was the democrats that passed obamacare without even reading the bill and excluded themselves from it.
Do you realize that in one county in Ohio, Obama had 108% of the vote? That is impossible. The biggest shocker comes from St. Lucie County in Florida where there was a 141% voter turnout. Obama won that county as well. I don't have to supply any evidence to you. Elections are over, but I suggest that you look into the candidates rather than choosing one because he has a (D) next to his name on the ballot.
Could you please supply a link, or any form of evidence to back it up? I did, and you respond with a seeming impossible scenario and no proof.
And yes, I do look in to candidates and I know that Mitt Romney does not reflect many of my views and barely reflects my religion at all. I do not think he is accepting of many people, and I feel he is not a good enough leader and politician to run the country.
As I already stated, Obama has made countless improvements, and has, as my evidence shows, improved job. He was given a horrible situation to deal with, and he's going to continue to make it better.
I did my research, and made my case. Where's your evidence?
Could you please supply a link, or any form of evidence to back it up? I did, and you respond with a seeming impossible scenario and no proof.
You could research it on google. There is plenty of evidence suggesting voter fraud. This is better than me giving you a link or two.
As I already stated, Obama has made countless improvements, and has, as my evidence shows, improved job. He was given a horrible situation to deal with, and he's going to continue to make it better.
Countless improvements? That should be a long list. How about you name all of his "improvements" that you can think of off the top of your head.
Yeah. Saying 'look at google' is still not REALLY suppling evidence. Please give me something specific from a reliable source. If someone asks for evidence, you can't just say 'go get it yourself.'
As for that list, lets see...
Bin Laden
Pulling us out of one of the worst economic crash since the Great Depression
Increasing jobs (see my original post)
Pulling us out of a recession
Removing don't ask don't tell
Lowering debts, and definitely the rate at which debts are increasing
Helped immensely with educational focus of the government
Helped with health care (ObamaCare)
Helped with the environment
That was off the top of my head. Then, I went and did research. Here's a lot of evidence for you. This site is very reliable, it has sources for all 206. Again, you have yet to supply no substantial, specific evidence.
Also remember that, as already stated by another user, the Republicans have been actively fighting against against many more of the changes obama has tried to make.
Yeah. Saying 'look at google' is still not REALLY suppling evidence. Please give me something specific from a reliable source. If someone asks for evidence, you can't just say 'go get it yourself
We are not at a court hearing. I don't have to supply you with the evidence. We are on the internet and you obviously have internet access, so why not search it on Google? That way you will get millions of links rather than one or two.
As for that list, lets see...
Bin Laden
Did Obama kill Bin Laden himself? I give him credit for giving the go ahead, but that was the easy part.
Pulling us out of one of the worst economic crash since the Great Depression
8% of Obama's staff has a business background. It hasn't been that low since the 19th century. America is still covered in debt by the way.
Pulling us out of a recession
You already said that...
Added respect for war veterans
If the military respects him so much, how come most of them didn't get to vote?
First let me point out that you only addressed a few of my points (namely, 5) and I supplied you with over 200.
We are not at a court hearing. I don't have to supply you with the evidence. We are on the internet and you obviously have internet access, so why not search it on Google? That way you will get millions of links rather than one or two.
Right. My point is that I'm not trying to argue against myself, you are trying to argue against me.
Did Obama kill Bin Laden himself? I give him credit for giving the go ahead, but that was the easy part.
Yes, but he was able to set up the situation...he was in charge of the operation. In every war that was fought, did the leaders do all the hard work themselves? No, but they were in many ways responsible for the successes. Same situation here.
8% of Obama's staff has a business background. It hasn't been that low since the 19th century.
This is irrelevant! Things are still getting fixed, regardless of his staff's background. (By the way, after an internet search of this fact, I can find no evidence to back it up...did you get it from a reputable source? Then again, I can't find any evidence contradicting it...so you may be right.)
America is still covered in debt by the way.
...and we have had a national debt since: January 1, 1791. However the national debt became drastically larger around the year 2000, UNDER PRESIDENT BUSH. The fact that we have debt right now is a direct result of our last president, not Obama. Obama was able to set our economy moving back in the correct direction, and will do this even more in the next four years.
If the military respects him so much, how come most of them didn't get to vote?
Please remember that I raised the point that Obama added respect for war veterans, not made non-veterans respect him. You answered a completely different point.
This last point I think we need to elaborate on:
ObamaCare is one of the worst things he has done.
Would you please explain how this is true? You've made your statement, now give me an argument.
First let me point out that you only addressed a few of my points (namely, 5) and I supplied you with over 200.
If you think I'm going to address all 200, you've lost your mind.
Yes, but he was able to set up the situation...he was in charge of the operation. In every war that was fought, did the leaders do all the hard work themselves? No, but they were in many ways responsible for the successes. Same situation here.
He gave the go ahead. He did not "set up the situation". He is responsible for the success in the same way a person is responsible for turning on their tv.
This is irrelevant! Things are still getting fixed, regardless of his staff's background. (By the way, after an internet search of this fact, I can find no evidence to back it up...did you get it from a reputable source? Then again, I can't find any evidence contradicting it...so you may be right.)
In all fairness, I first read this on one of the debates on this site. Then I researched it and found it on mostly conservative sites. So as you said, there isn't much proof but there isn't much out there to disprove it either.
...and we have had a national debt since: January 1, 1791. However the national debt became drastically larger around the year 2000, UNDER PRESIDENT BUSH. The fact that we have debt right now is a direct result of our last president, not Obama. Obama was able to set our economy moving back in the correct direction, and will do this even more in the next four years.
"Federal debt has soared under Obama, driven by a string of annual federal deficits exceeding $1 trillion each. As we reported in much detail back in June, the president inherited a gusher of red ink, which has continued despite his promise to cut deficits in half. Since he took office, the total federal debt has reached nearly $16.2 trillion, an increase of 52 percent. That includes money that the government owes to itself, such as money held in the Social Security trust funds. It’s the figure the president’s critics cite most often. The portion of that total debt that is owed to the public (including foreign investors) has risen even more dramatically in percentage terms. Debt held by the public now stands at $11.3 trillion, an increase of 79 percent."
Please remember that I raised the point that Obama added respect for war veterans, not made non-veterans respect him. You answered a completely different point.
The military that is currently fighting under his presidency should have an important opinion in all of this shouldn't they? Maybe they didn't get to vote because they usually favor republicans.
If you think I'm going to address all 200, you've lost your mind.
Okay, I concede. Just letting you know. Also, many of the ones I did say in the much smaller list you were unable to dispute...I was just giving you the 200 to add more fuel to my argument.
He gave the go ahead. He did not "set up the situation". He is responsible for the success in the same way a person is responsible for turning on their tv.
Obama was the leader of the country and had a huge influence on the people involved in the operation during and for sometime before Bin Laden was killed. He obviously had a substantial part in the assassination.
"Federal debt has soared under Obama, driven by a string of annual federal deficits exceeding $1 trillion each. As we reported in much detail back in June, the president inherited a gusher of red ink, which has continued despite his promise to cut deficits in half. Since he took office, the total federal debt has reached nearly $16.2 trillion, an increase of 52 percent. That includes money that the government owes to itself, such as money held in the Social Security trust funds. It’s the figure the president’s critics cite most often. The portion of that total debt that is owed to the public (including foreign investors) has risen even more dramatically in percentage terms. Debt held by the public now stands at $11.3 trillion, an increase of 79 percent."
I did some research myself, and found several sites that contradict these numbers.
"When President Obama took office in 2009 the deficit was already running at close to a record-setting pace. At the end of that fiscal year, it was $1.4 trillion."
"Fiscal 2012 ended on Sept. 30. The final figures aren’t yet in, but at the moment the Congressional Budget Office projects the deficit will be ... $1.1 trillion ... smaller. Not doubled at all."
"...he [Obama] did push an $800 billion-plus economic stimulus program through Congress early in his term, some of which was spent before that budget year ended in October. Bush's original budget proposal predicted a $407 billion deficit for 2009, but the final figure was $1.4 trillion, according to White House figures."
"On the date of President Obama's inauguration, rounded debt figures for debt accumulated by all previous presidents are as follows:
Debt Held by the Public: $6.3 trillion
Intragovernmental Holdings: $4.3 trillion
Total Public Debt Outstanding: $10.6 trillion"
"As of February 23, 2012:
Debt Held by the Public: $10.6 trillion
Intragovernmental Holdings: $4.8 trillion
Total Public Debt Outstanding: $15.4 trillion"
This last one's important:
"So, if we subtract these (unrounded) figures from the (unrounded) current figures above, we are left with the accumulate debt that can be attributed to President Obama.
Debt Held by the Public: $10.6 trillion - $6.3 trillion = $4.37 trillion
2) The article is not from an objective standpoint, or even close to one. It only gets the republican side of the argument.
3) The first two sentences make a giant generalization: Obamacare is unconstitutional. Everybody seems to understand that except Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and President Obama. In fact, lots and lots of people believe it's constitutional. Namely, the supreme court.
4) ObamaCare has passed, and IS constitutional. This article supplies no real evidence to supply why it's bad, only about the constitutionality of it. This makes it not very relevant.
This could go on for a long time; you give sources that contradict my argument and vice-versa. I gave you a source from a site that is often considered left-wing. You gave me CNN, Christian Science, and Skeptic. Why would you even use CNN as a source for someone like me to refer to? Christian Science was kind of an odd choice too. I've heard rumors it too is left-wing, even though it claims to be biased. I guess it depends on the writer... and then there is Skeptic. A site that is similar to Yahoo Answers. I would not consider that a reliable source.
You're going to find a million different "contradictions" out there to anything I throw at you. That's just how this shit works. There are even people out there who think the Holocaust never happened. People read what they want to believe. You're a democrat (I guess), so you are going to support your party. It all comes down to this; unless you are tied directly to the Government in D.C., you do not know the truth. Neither do I. I find it funny that people support these shitty politicians at all. We have had years of nothing but selfish politicians who have no idea what it is like to live outside of politics. It's truly a shame that we have to choose our president based on who we consider the "lesser of two evils". We should be choosing based on who is the better of the two good candidates who actually care about their country and it's people.
Oh my gosh!!! I've seen that graph and it is completely misleading. 1) The graph may have been supplied by the BLS but they didn't label it as job creation and that's the deception here. That is totally fabricated by the Obama administration and his campaign strategists! 2) when looking at the decrease go from negative to less negative... That's not because of job creation, that just represents a slow down of job loss... Completely different my friend! For example from March 2009 to February 2009, the change from -800k to approximately -300K jobs doesn't mean President Obama created 500k jobs in that month it means there was a total loss of 300K additional jobs. The only time this graph shows a start of increase in job creation is in February 2010, ONE YEAR AND TWO MONTHS AFTER HE TOOK OFFICE!!!! From that point forward count how many jobs we're created and exclude the jobs for the months OCT-DEC of each year because those jobs are seasonal primarily for Christmas and those employees get laid-off after the holiday and you will see the number doesn't remotely come close to making up the jobs lost through Jan. 2009 to Jan. 2010. Boom!! Can you feel that coming? huh? huh? huh? I have excercized the demons! This house is clear. LOSERS? losers! losers! lahoozaherrrr!
If things continue getting better it will be in despite of his policies and not because of them, what with so many businesses declaring they they'll either cut the amount of workers hired or reduce their hours below the amount required to require healthcare coverage as just one example. Further, handled it marvelously? I presume you meant that besides a VERY few amount of policies (removal of DADT which I applaud him for) he's acted like Dubya Jr. For instance, renewal and expansion of the PATRIOT act, signed assassinations of United States citizens with no due process, more drone strikes in four years than G. W. Bush had in all eight of his presidency, and continued support of the bailouts.
I cannot say that things will necessarily get better. Though, I argue on this side, because things, at the very least, will not get drastically worse then if Romney were elected, I believe.
Honestly i don't think much would really change. Depending in who hold the house vote if its all republican then we can expect nothing to change. However if there's a democratic house and president then we can expect major changes.
I agree, although the president can still make some changes, regardless of the house. Some of it may be shut down, but some progress can still be made.
- Politics, If both sides work together we can do something about the budget, Republicans are quietly saying they're open to "increase revenue", Dems have already agreed to tax spending cuts
- The US Economy, Trillions of dollars have been sitting on the sidelines due to uncertainty, as the future becomes clearer that money will begin to flow
- Energy, shale oil is changing EVERYTHING. The natural gas boom is going to make an incredible difference
(Also, he won. Only darkness I'm seeing is at nighttime, no fire and brimstone, just a few more jobs happening, people dying and coming back as normal, that is to say, not at all.)
Chances are if we vote the same dude back in were going to get more of the same. So I guess it's up to you as the reader of this fine post to determine if you think the last four years have been good or bad, relatively speaking.
