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They are victims of the incompetence or laziness of their ancestors who have not succeeded to make their contry safe from economicl need and dangerous ideology
Seems to me that when you're INVITED in to a nation to do menial work, like picking lettuce, washing dishes, making beds and blowing leaves, and you accepted that invitation, they shouldn't throw you out.. If they DO, you're certainly a victim...
What??? Are you gonna tell me that when Mexicans reached the American border they saw a DO NOT CROSS sign???? Nahhh... They saw a HELP WANTED sign..
Seems to me that when you're INVITED in to a nation
It's an interesting tactic for liberals to invite illegals in, and then say that equals Conservatives welcoming illegals in...
to do menial work, like picking lettuce, washing dishes, making beds and blowing leaves
Wow...should I comment? Probably not worth it... I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you meant that in a nonracist way...
and you accepted that invitation, they shouldn't throw you out..
The people throwing people out didn't invite illegals into the country. I haven't invited illegal Mexicans, Venezuelans, Russians, Europeans, ISIS militants, nope...none of them.
If they DO, you're certainly a victim...
Of mindless liberal politics.
What??? Are you gonna tell me that when Mexicans reached the American border they saw a DO NOT CROSS sign???? Nahhh... They saw a HELP WANTED sign
They saw a border fence, climbed over or dug under said fence, avoided border patrol intentionally and illegally, ignored laws that they knew existed with no regard for said laws, and there are literal, physical warning signs.
We have a legal process for migrating to this country that is extremely generous in and of itself. These illegals are breaking the law with no concern for legal migrants or legal citizens.
They saw a border fence, climbed over or dug under said fence, avoided border patrol intentionally
Hello again, bront:
That may be true in the recent years, but you gotta take the longer view. This stuff has been going on for generations.. I promise you, those who crossed 50 years ago did NOT see a fence.
Seems to me if you were brought to America as child, and you're "illegal" through no fault of your own, and the country promises that if you come forward, pass a background check, and go to school or work, they will NOT deport you, and you DO that, if the country then CHANGES its mind and DEPORTS you, you ARE a victim..
Seems to me if you were brought to America as child, and you're "illegal" through no fault of your own
Then 7 billion people could move here, and there's nothing we can do about it.
and the country promises that if you come forward, pass a background check, and go to school or work, they will NOT deport you
You mean when liberals do this, knowing fully well that the rest of the country disagrees, but doesn't care about the rest of the country's opinion.
and you DO that, if the country then CHANGES its mind
The country didn't change its mind. Conservatives who believe in laws decided to inforce them like they really are laws.
Why even invite legal migrants Con, if you can just jump the fence and get citizenship and work? Can Russians, ISIS, and/or the Chinese just come on into Alaska and get free healthcare, citizenship, work while you gladly welcome them all in? Christ allmighty...
...if the country then CHANGES its mind and DEPORTS you, you ARE a victim.
Law passed by Congress are the final word on the "mind" of the country.
The laws about what constitutes illegal residency in the US have NOT changed materially since the days of the Bracero program over 70 years ago.
These people are not victims of the US.
Regarding the DACA-eligible illegal aliens, because they received US public educational benefits, at the very least, they are not even victims of their parent's law-breaking.
Sometimes. Every unflattering picture, every editorial portrayed as objective news, and every parroting of opposing party talking points, is an attempt to victimize Trump.
However, reports of potential crimes, proof of when he lies, and the bad ripple effects that happen when a President is acting like a spoiled child, are all valid examples of the press doing its actual job.
He's a victim of biased media, however he's not the first and he won't be the last presidential candidate having to face being the victim of something. Obama, especially, was a victim of false racist claims about his birthplace.
Actually some of his own documents in Kenya state that he was born in Kenya. It isn't "racist" to point it out or be concerned, especially when it's his own brother showing the thing off and carrying on about it.
You left out the part about his own brother making the claim. Real or not, it isn't racist to go check out what his brother provided or to have a moment of concern.
The exact same thing was done to Ted Cruz on "being from Canada", and he looks white. Many libs like to say our opposition of them is based on race when it's not race we oppose, but the person. Otherwise we wouldn't love Larry Elder, Herman Cain, Allen West, Ben Carson, etc because they are black. But we don't hate them. Why? Because we agree with what they say.
The difference is that he WAS (admittedly) born in Canada, and was a citizen of Canada, etc. Fake is not the same as real.
Sure, but the point is that a heavy attack on Cruz was still made, which insinuates that it was based on being a political opponent rather than because of race.
For some it is (admittedly), and for some it isn't
Most Republicans couldn't care less about race. It seems to be more important to the left. What I do know is that if Ben Carson had won the Republican nomination, the left would have tried to destroy him. His "blackness" wouldn't have been some knid of magic shield against the liberal press or liberals in general.
For some people who continued the claim it was done based, at least in part, on racial prejudice
There are always "some". I've seen many minority leftists say things that they could never get away with if they were white. Being white seems to mean the person can't say certain things. Being nonwhite seems to mean you can say blatantly racist things and not be labeled racist. The standards are definately not the same. Whites can mean nothing by a word, phrase, or suggestion and be labeled racist. Maxine Waters or Al Sharpton can say blatantly racist things and be labeled as nothing. So that's how that works...
Um, no they don't? The claim was completely fabricated based on racial prejudices.
Malik Obama didn't start the claim, he only continued it to gain attention and to spite his half-brother.
The difference between Obama and Cruz is that Cruz actually was born in Canada. The claim wasn't made because of his race, it was made because there's actual factual evidence that it's true.
The birther movement, however, was completely unfounded and had no factual basis. There's not a single piece of evidence other than forged documents that show that Obama was born in Africa.
The claim was completely fabricated based on racial prejudices
You are assuming that Republicans questioning place of birth is "racial", but alas, Republicans have done it before to white opponents. It wasn't "racial". It was political.
The difference between Obama and Cruz is that Cruz actually was born in Canada. The claim wasn't made because of his race
I know. It was made because of politics.
it was made because there's actual factual evidence that it's true.
They thought the same thing on Barack Obama. It's rather reasonable seeing he himself claimed in his book "Dreams from my Father", to have been raised in Indonesia, his father was Kenyan, he greeted Muslims in speeches in Arabic, and he seemed to have a Muslim background even according to himself. It's not like people just made that part up. They got the info from his own mouth and from his own family.
It was racial. The whole movement was intended to undermine him based on his race, even though there was no actual evidence to show he was born anywhere other than Hawaii apart from the fact that his father was born in Kenya.
I stand by my belief that if Obama were fully white, the birther movement wouldn't have been a thing.
I don't think everyone who believed the lies is a racist, however it's undeniable that the claim itself originated in racial prejudice. "Oh, he's black, we should take advantage of that by making some random unfounded claim that he was born in Africa."
It was racial. The whole movement was intended to undermine him based on his race
I had concern because he spoke foreign languages and people from Indonesia and Kenya knew him as a child. If Chuck Schumer was running for President, and had the same profile, I'd purge him too. Why wouldn't I? Being black didn't cause Obama to have a strong foreign background. Having a strong foreign background did. It's his book about himself. We didn't write it.
however it's undeniable that the claim itself originated in racial prejudice.
Anything is deniable, and I just denied it.
Oh, he's black, we should take advantage of that by making some random unfounded claim that he was born in Africa."
It wasn't random that he claimed to be raised in Indonesia and had Kenyan relatives that knew him. We took his own words at face value. Being black doesn't give you a magic shield from common sense scrutiny. Only racists pass out magic shields because of race to avoid said scrutiny.
A document which was forged after the first claims. As I mentioned in my other comment, I don't think that everyone who was duped by the forged birth certificate is racist, however the movement itself is founded on racial prejudice.
You have no idea what motives anything is founded on. I go after liberals of all races. To wonder if someone who went to school as a kid in Indonesia is an American or has American values is normal instinct. Without those kinds of instincts, our species wouldn't have survived long ago.
People come to America in search of a better life for themselves. They often come with little money and resources to survive and struggle to learn english and make a living for themselves and their families. It is hard to survive here as an immigrant, but they wouldn't come unless it was safer here than their original home country. People that make the dangerous journey to get to the United States are already victim coming to seek refuge from even worse conditions elsewhere. When they arrive at the United States, they are further victimized and exploited by their labor and wages. Because undocumented immigrants can not unionize and are not subject to the same minimum wage laws and other federal labor laws, corporations are free to further vicitmize them with extremely low wages and poor working conditions. American capitalism thrives on illegal immigration and victimizes people who have fled an even more victimizing situation.
This is a blanket statement that covers too many topic to discuss all at once. but there are many victims in the world and this may be the case with some immigrants but some are predators and this is why we can't not screen the people coming into the country. If a country is oppressive enough the population needs to organize against the oppressive government. There are always many more citizens being oppressed than oppressors it's a matter of the willingness to fight for your freedom.
By definition illegal immigrants are criminals who come to the United States and work without paying their just and lawful taxes.
Other, more entrepreneurial illegals enjoy the benefits of carrying out their business activities in a country with relative political stability and a thriving economy whilst not contributing to the nation's coffers.
Not surprisingly, it's the exact opposite... Because they can't file a tax return, all the money that was withheld cannot be retrieved. Not only do they contribute to the nations coffers, they do it TWICE.
From the gross earnings of an employee's wage the employer is legally bound to deduct the government's set rate of tax 'at source', or P.A.Y.E., ( pay as you earn) and submit the collected duty to the I.R.S.on or before the stipulated due dates.
In the case of illegal immigrant workers the employee receives the net wage with the employer keeping all or part of the tax, and/or the additional profits made from not having to pay his employee's income tax.
Legitimate business must produce and maintain proper profit & loss accounts and records of their trading activities for the purposes of auditing and I.R.S., inspections.
Enterprises operating outside the law cannot keep such damning records so, unlike legally registered businesses, they get to keep all their profits.
You're only a mischievous SILLY BILLY way out of your league.
You should stick to your life of criminality and, along with the illegals you'll not have to pay tax on your ill gotten gains, until you're caught again that is.
I have no idea what you said or what it has to do with the subject at hand.
Here’s how it works on the ground. An illegal immigrant has no social security number, so in order to work, he makes one up. The employer withholds taxes based upon that number. Since it’s a made-up number, he can’t file a tax return to get his overpayment back like you and I can. Hence, all the money that was withheld will be kept by the government. This is not difficult.
Here’s how it works on the ground. An illegal immigrant has no social security number, so in order to work, he makes one up. The employer withholds taxes based upon that number. Since it’s a made-up number, he can’t file a tax return to get his overpayment back like you and I can. Hence, all the money that was withheld will be kept by the government.
It is also common for illegal immigrants to use "borrowed" Social Security Numbers (SSNs) and names, and then file for returns under those numbers.
A yearly tax return is required for every worker/SSN. While, due to bureaucratic ineffectiveness and negligence, this is not well enforced, but filing a return is a common aspect of working under borrowed SSNs.
Sure, there are some who never claim the refunds, but often, they claim so many dependents on their W-4s that no Federal or State income tax withholding is Zero, anyway.
Often, due to the large number of "dependents" claimed, the Earned Income Tax Credit results in refunds greater than what was withheld, which could easily result in a net loss of Federal tax dollars over the entire population of working illegal immigrants.
The IRS generally has not caught these abuses for exactly the same reasons they do not catch most of the instances of multiple refunds under multiple SSNs being sent to single addresses to the tune of multiple millions of dollars.
Where most employers are complicit in this is in regard to fostering plausible deniability for the very reasons cited earlier on this thread.
It is, however true that FICA and Medicare taxes are withheld, and do, in fact, go into the public coffers, as you point out.
I'm sure if you're only 'acting dumb' to be provocative,but in the off chance that you're as eye-wateringly thick as you're making out to be I'll respond.
Like I said, you're only being a mischievous little imp and you have ''no idea'' about anything, so best you stick to mugging old age pensioners which by all accounts is your area of expertise.
The point was that instead of 'illegals' being victims it is the nation that is the true victim.
If taxpayers overpay, yes they do get a rebate, or in other words their own money back.
In the meantime the government has had that money, (and along with millions of others), gaining interest.
Illegal employees don't pay any tax at all you dimwitted fool, and therefore couldn't possibly get a rebate on something which was never paid in the first place.
In the case of illegals running businesses they don't/can't pay corporation tax as legitimate concerns have to, so once again the treasury loses out.
If we follow your madcap reasoning to it's natural conclusion then no one would have to pay tax and government would receive no revenue.
What do you think would happen then?
That was a rhetorical question as I know you won't have the first idea.
If your your that stupid you cannot understand the basic principles of the nation's tax structure you should get into your bath, cut your wrists and bleed to death.
Actually, undocumented immigrants do pay taxes. In fact, they pay billions of dollars each year to Social Security without ever being able to reap the benefits of it. It is estimated that illegal immigrants contribute about 11.74 billion dollars in state and local taxes each year. Immigrants are not exempt from property taxes, excise and sales tax, and personal income tax.
Additionally, illegal immigration is really good for a nation's economy. They fully contribute/ increase the nation's GDP, can increase demand for goods and services and lower wages for migrant workers means that goods can be cheaper and sold more, which follows the ideals of capitalism while exploiting their labor.
By their very definition they are illegal, but that's not to say with certainty that they are free from being victims under certain circumstances. Some who enter the country illegally are forced to work in conditions that we wouldn't even find acceptable for animals to pay off an entry fee. Some are fleeing terrible circumstances to try to have a shot at living a better life because where they were was dangerous. I think those may be victims, but I don't think the vast majority are.
