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Imagine, the west without Muslims.
Imagine a west with no Muslims, it's easy if you try, no terrorists bombs to kill us and make the children cry. You may say I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one, some day they may leave us and our nations will be as one.
The two atrocities to which you refer were indeed carried out by deranged non Muslims. Whilst the deaths, injuries and the suffering of the bereaved in these two incidents was as horrendous as any other act of savagery they are a drop in an enormous ocean when compared to the astronomical worldwide death toll caused by Muslim terrorists. If the United States would sort out it's firearm issue I'm sure that such incidents would be very rare occurrences. Deduct the deaths and destruction caused by Muslims globally and observe the 1000s of people who would be alive today. Absolutely shocking as these two deadly events were, in the overall scheme of things they are only a ''Red Herring' in this debate.
"Deduct the deaths and destruction caused by (religions) globally and observe the (millions) of people who"... would have lived today.
Radicals are , and always have, killed people. If America is to continue to have "freedom of religion" it must include ALL religions, as well as those who have none. Hate between religions will always be there as long as we insist that OUR GOD is the only one, and YOUR GOD is a phony! "Gods" are the "red herring" of this problem, and always will be....always have been. It is not a religion that is to blame, it is the radicals of ANY religion that are to blame. I don't blame any religion, I blame the radicalization of ANY religion. It has never ceased, it never will.
I am unaware of any religion in modern history, other than Islam, that butchers civilians for being of a different, faith, culture or political viewpoint in the name of their God. Muslims live in their adopted countries free from persecution or hindrance to follow their faith. They have abused our tolerance and goodwill by blowing our citizens, innocent men, woman and children to kingdom come. They refuse to merge with the societies which they have chosen to live nor do they adopt our values and way of life. Instead they ''appropriate'' great tracts of our towns and cities and turn them into third world hell holes, similar to the ones they left to come to the west. Only the murdering Muslim terrorists mention God, as they murder and behead civilians ''IN THE NAME OF ALLAH''. It's a simple mathematical calculation;- every Muslim community will have x% of terrorists and potential terrorists, the greater the Muslim population the greater will be the X%. The same principle applies to Muslim refugees. In Europe rape and violent crime is occurring 'en mass' in towns and cities such as Cologne and Paris by recently arrived Muslim ''economic refugees''. The degree of liberalism afforded to any problem is always in direct proportion to one's distance from the problem. It's so easy for sanctimonious people such as you to occupy and bellow from what they perceive as the moral high ground while paying no heed to the victims of your high and mighty talk of freedom. Tell the 100 woman in Cologne who were raped and robbed by over 1000 newly arrived Muslim, so called refugees on new year's eve, all about your freedoms. Tell the bereaving families of the 130 Parisians who were gunned down by Muslims that this is the small price they have to pay so people like you can smugly and mindlessly say, we have freedom. Dear fool, no one has complete freedom. The western nations have had their freedom taken away by Muslims.
Eh, fine sentiments there admiral, but who mentioned the Irish? The Irish have an historical issue with the U.K, which is to all intent and purposes resolved. The murderous Irish terrorists were never at war with the rest of the world. There is no 'knee jerk' reaction here regarding the Muslim threat. The Muslim attacks started as far back as the 1980s ( perhaps further) 1983;- U.S.Embassy bombing in Beirut,63 dead, 120 injured. again in 1983;- Beirut barracks bombing by Islamuc Jihad, 307 dead, 75 injured. There is a long list of atrocities right through the 80s 90s noughties right uo to the present day. The eye blogging list includes civilian targets including places of worship, civilian aircraft,bus stations and cafes. A reaction to forty years of barbaric Muslim global terrorism could not in any sense be described as a ''knee jerk reaction.
I raised the Irish comparison because for quite a while there the public absolutely despised the Irish (yeah not globally but the "Muslims" you're talking about aren't fighting the entire planet either).
"A reaction to forty years of barbaric Muslim global terrorism could not in any sense be described as a ''knee jerk reaction."
Islam does not condone violence any more than Catholicism or Sickhism does. It is a religion, based on a series of texts that can be interpreted in millions of ways. Hell, the "barbaric Muslims" you're talking about here have killed more of the Islamic population than they have any other group of people.
When the Japanese went to war in WWII, we didn't respond by saying "Kill all Asians", because that's ridiculous. Same deal here. Having read the Qur'ran and been in several Islamic communities I can honestly say that their religion is, as with all other religions, simply a tool. Most Muslims use it for good. Not all of them, but most.
Firstly, it must be stated that the various Irish nationalist terror groups along with their loyalist equivalents were a bunch of low life murderers who purposely focused on civilian targets, ( see the Abercorn, Kingsmill, La Mon House Hotel and Bloody Friday atrocities) as well as military ones. However, these hate filled psychopaths were able to rationalize their carnage as they saw, (a very few still do,) the British occupation of Ireland as illegal and repressive. They saw it, and still do as a struggle to oust the British from ''their country'' who are there only as a consequence of their superior military and economic superiority. The ''Irish problem'' has nothing whatsoever to do with Protestantism or Catholicism, but is a conflict between the ''Loyalists'' who wish to retain the union with the U.K, and Nationalists who strive for the unification of their country. You should have qualified your statement that ''the public'' absolutely despised the Irish'', by saying ''the British and Irish Loyalist public'', despised the Irish, quite rightly so. . The American public in their 10s of 1000s donated countless $millions to the I.R.A, through their American sympathizers in the U.S, collected by, and channelled through an organization known as ''Noraid''. The Irish question has no place in this argument and, as you seem to do, feel sufficiently strongly about the issue, raise the subject under separate cover. Unlike the Muslim war, and it is a war, the Irish nationalists do not call on God as their leader in their so called cause, whereas Muslims are waging a Jihad, or ''Holy'' War against most of the western Christian nations. The list of worldwide incidences where Muslims singled out Christians and slaughtered them by various inhuman ways, including beheading them slowly while still alive, is too great to go into print, all in the name of Allah and their paedophil prophet Mohammad. You introduce another ''red herring'' into the Muslim debate by presenting the Japanese conflict of WW2. Whilst the Japanese sneak attack on Pearl Harbour was despicable and cowardly ( for which they paid a well deserved heavy price) they presented themselves as a National military force against which the allies could fight within the lose parameters of warfare. Religion or ethnicity, did not form any part of their military reasoning or objectives, indeed their major allies were the Germans who were religious and racial opposites. Muslims hold the western way of life along with our values and traditions with contempt and have openly sworn to destroy our freedoms for which so many have sacrificed so mush to retain. Mindless liberal fools such as you who offer succour to our enemies by not recognizing the threat they pose to our cultural heritage are aiding and abetting these crazed murderers. One example is highlighted in today's (19th) news. The U.N. has stated that from the 1st Oct 2014 to 31st Oct 15, 1880 civilians have been murdered in Iraq with 3.2 million displaced by I.S.I.S. This scenario may be considered by some as a good thing as the more Muslims kill each other the less there will be for us to worry about. . In case you haven't noticed, and it would appear you haven't, Muslims have ''appropriated'' great tracts of our towns and cities and refuse to merge with the culture and way of life of their adopted countries. Hey, admiraldoughhead, wake up and be aware of what's happening in the world where you live.
You clearly know a great deal about history Cocopops, which in part makes me surprised to see you falling for the "ISIS = All Islam" mistake.
I'm going to skip over a fair bit of what you said here, purely because it's more relevant to our other debate. Here, we're focusing exclusively on whether all Muslims are fundamentally bad and should be removed from the West.
My point in raising the Irish and Japanese comparisons was not that the conflicts are identical, but that the prejudices people developed as a result are similar. While the IRA were committing atrocities (as you rather impressively listed), people across Europe and even America were placing the blame on the Irish as a whole. This was foolish - your average Irish citizen (or even expat) had nothing to do with the IRA, and yet people still blamed them.
When awful acts are committed, it's essential to know who to blame for them. Blaming Islam for the acts of a twisted, psychotic group who use the Islamic holy texts as flimsy justifications for their insanity is incorrect, in exactly the same way that blaming the Irish as a whole for the acts of the IRA is incorrect.
Few have suffered more at the hands of the I.R.A, than my family and I did and I doubt that there is anyone who loathes that murderous organization more than I. However, more dispassionate people could understand their struggle to regain a part of their country which was partitioned by what they perceive as a foreign power. I.S.I.S, is an organization which holds the western way of life and their immoral citizens in total contempt and are committed to replacing us and establishing their ideology by ruthless force. Of course all Muslims are not terrorists. But, realize this, in every Muslim community there will be an X % of terrorists. Also within these alien communities there will be another X% which will be radicalized. What are they doing here? because of our brainless politicians past and present. Then we have the emotive question of immigration. As recent atrocities have confirmed, there will be yet another X% of committed terrorists within the ranks of the sad eyed refugees with their hard luck stories,and the usual X% of the weak minded who will be radicalized. THIS IS THE POINT;- The greater the Muslim population the greater the X% will be. That is an indisputable mathematical fact. So, this begs the question, why do our politicians persist in swamping our country with Muslims, many of whom will be plotting to blow us to smithereens as soon as they get their free housing and benefit handouts? One final note about the Irish and those who lived there or traveled to that part of the world. During the troubles all travelers to and from Ireland had to complete security questionnaire forms showing their name, address, date of birth, their destination, where they would be staying in the U.K. the purpose for their trip and other details. Then their baggage was subjected to more intense scrutiny in a specially designated Irish Area which was, and still is at the extremity of most U.K, airports. Try subjecting Muslims travelers to that level of ''discriminatory''!! security and you'd have the civil rights brigade screaming from the roof tops.
Presumably you would agree that all Irish should not be branded terrorists because of the actions of the IRA, correct? Should the US not allow immigration from Ireland, etc.?
Hey, if I'm going to give you laugh I'll have to charge you extra. Your preposterous and/or mischievously provocative claims about the Boston outrage in which the Muslims killed three people and ''SERIOUSLY'' injured 264 identifies you as someone who clearly suffers from some type of psychosis and therefore incapable of meaningful debate. Muslims have caused death and destruction in every country they infest, from Australia to Canada, from the United States( 9/11) to the U.K,(7/7) and pretty much every country in Europe not least of which the 130 deaths in Paris. There is no debate necessary, the plain facts speak for themselves. All your gobbledygook trying to deny the undeniable, or justify the unjustifiable would be a futile and time wasting exercise.
We wouldn't have Al-gebra - which might seem like a great thing if you're in middle-school, but I'm sure it would mean living without a lot of other things, too
