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17
Yup But Mah Fascist Narrative
Debate Score:31
Arguments:22
Total Votes:56
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In Death, Khashoggi Exposes the Corruption of Kushner and Trump

Areport released yesterday by the CIA concluded that Jamal Khashoggi, a prominent Saudi journalist who was living in the United States, was assassinated on direct orders from Mohammed bin Salman (MbS), crown prince of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

Yup

Side Score: 14
VS.

But Mah Fascist Narrative

Side Score: 17
Caspion(207) Banned
-1 points

For Khashoggi, a Tangled Mix of Royal Service and Islamist Sympathies

Mr. Khashoggi’s first claim to fame was his acquaintance with Osama bin Laden. Mr. Khashoggi had spent time in Jidda, Bin Laden’s hometown, and, like Bin Laden, he came from a prominent nonroyal family. Mr. Khashoggi’s grandfather was a doctor who had treated Saudi Arabia’s first king. His uncle was Adnan Khashoggi, a famous arms dealer, although Jamal Khashoggi did not benefit from his uncle’s wealth.

Mr. Khashoggi studied at Indiana State University and returned to Saudi Arabia to report for an English-language newspaper. Several of his friends say that early on Mr. Khashoggi also joined the Muslim Brotherhood.

Although he later stopped attending meetings of the Brotherhood, he remained conversant in its conservative, Islamist and often anti-Western rhetoric, which he could deploy or hide depending on whom he was seeking to befriend.

-The New York Times

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/10/14/world/middleeast/jamal-khashoggi-saudi-arabia.amp.html

Side: Yup
TheNotorious(9) Disputed
1 point

Jamal Khashoggi was a journalist, not a jihadist

This has been a common talking point among some of President Donald Trump's supporters, which is to suggest that Khashoggi's killing matters less if he was aligned with the Muslim Brotherhood or once knew Osama bin Laden. Trump and some of his backers have been at pains to blunt the condemnation that has been hurled worldwide at the Saudi regime, and in particular, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, in whom the US administration has invested much political capital.

More than a decade ago, long before any of this was a matter of controversy, I interviewed Khashoggi at length in London for a book I was writing, "The Osama bin Laden I Know." On June 13, 2005, I asked Khashoggi a number of questions about the nature of his relationship with bin Laden, his connection to the Muslim Brotherhood, and the proper role of religion in politics.

Khashoggi discussed his pioneering reporting for Arab News about bin Laden, his understanding of the formation of al Qaeda, and the last time he met with bin Laden. Khashoggi also discussed his feelings about the 9/11 attacks and his hopes and fears for the future of Saudi Arabia.

What follows are excerpts from that interview. This interview shows that Khashoggi wasn't some kind of secret jihadist, but a journalist simply doing his job who evolved from an Islamist in his twenties to a more liberal position by the time he was in his forties.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/22/opinions/khashoggi-was-journalist-not-jihadist-bergen/index.html

Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi criticised the regime – and paid with his life

The humble man I knew, who disappeared from the consulate in Istanbul, saw it as his duty to stand up for ordinary Saudis

Jamal Khashoggi is not the first Saudi exile to be killed. No one today remembers Nassir al-Sa’id, who disappeared in Beirut in 1979 and has not been seen since.

Prince Sultan bin Turki was kidnapped in Geneva in 2003. Prince Turki bin Bandar al-Saud, who applied for asylum in France, disappeared in 2015. Maj Gen Ali al-Qahtani, an officer in the Saudi National Guard who died while in custody, showed signs of abuse: his neck appeared twisted and his body was badly swollen. There are many, many others.

Thousands languish in jail. Human rights activists branded as terrorists are on death row on charges that Human Rights Watch says “do not resemble recognisable crimes”. I know of one business leader who was strung upside down and tortured. Nothing has been heard of him since. In Saudi Arabia, you are one social media post away from death.

A Saudi plane dropped a US-made bomb on a school bus in Yemen killing 40 boys and 11 adults on a school trip. Death is delivered by remote control, but no western ally or arms supplier demands an explanation. No contracts are lost. No stock market will decline the mouth-watering prospect of the largest initial public offering in history. What difference does one more dead Saudi make?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/08/saudi-journalist-jamal-khashoggi-istanbul

Banned for selection bias, accusing victims of terrorism of being terrorists, murder apologism, attacking a dead man with claims he can't defend and for systematically using puppet accounts to circumvent a ban so you can continue to post offensive fascist bullshit in my debate.

Side: But Mah Fascist Narrative
outlaw60(14819) Disputed Banned
1 point

Does your Left Wing Media reference your Muslim to the Muslim Brotherhood ?????????

Side: Yup

Nope, it shows the corruption of the inbred Saudi royal family.

Side: But Mah Fascist Narrative
1 point

Does the Dummy author of this post know anything about the Muslim it so loves ????

Side: But Mah Fascist Narrative
1 point

Does the Dummy author of this post know anything about the Muslim it so loves ?

Does the retarded neo-Confederate drunk understand that Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman is also a Muslim?

Side: Yup
outlaw60(14819) Disputed Banned
1 point

But why is it you are so concerned with one Muslim death ? Does that death bother you?

Side: But Mah Fascist Narrative
-2 points
2 points

Khashoggi supported terrorists and terrorist groups

Khashoggi was neither a terrorist nor a supporter of terrorism. He was a journalist.

Banned for tu quoque fallacy, red herring fallacy, deflection, partisanship, failure to address legitimate criticism, failure to stay on topic, use of puppet accounts, false statements of fact and trying to use attack as a form of defence.

Side: Yup
marcusmoon(580) Clarified
1 point

Saudi Arabia, meanwhile, is a full-blown dictatorship.

Not just a dictatorship, but a hereditary monarchy, which is the most conservative form of government, by virtue of how long a history hereditary monarchies have.

On top of that, the Saudi royal family is on the extreme end of social conservatism, preserving social structures and moral values that are millennia old.

This draws a stark comparison between the extreme far right wing in the US, which still favors some form of republican government, but with some old mindsets, sometimes including racism and sexism, on top of a remarkable cultural provincialism. Their political conservatism hearkens back at the most to the late 18th century America, but no further back (for example, to medieval monarchies or chivalry.) That makes them classical liberals.

Likewise, as a general rule, the American far right displays a social conservatism is more in line with that of the 1950's, and the 1930's at the earliest.

This puts conservative Republicans American center left on the politico-social spectrum, and makes the "extreme right" of Americans centrists.

Side: Yup
-2 points
1 point

Even worse, despite the psychopathy of the Muslim world, you embrace it, yet cannot put into words coherently, why.

Banned for tu quoque fallacy, red herring fallacy, deflection, partisanship, failure to address legitimate criticism, failure to stay on topic, use of puppet accounts, false statements of fact and trying to use attack as a form of defence.

Side: Yup
Quoroc(72) Disputed Banned
0 points

You still have never explained the logic behind embracing Islam, which would kill you in seconds if you didn't submit.

You haven't been on topic yet today.

Side: But Mah Fascist Narrative