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The government since it is their propaganda that their interests be made into motion by any means necessary. It would be obvious since the governments of the major super powers of the world decided on creating world war 1 and 2. They did `t even ask for the approval of their citizens.
According to the University of Hawaii, democide is the leading cause of unnatural death in the world, 262,000,000 people killed by government just in the 20th Century.
THEREFORE, ask yourself, who is the greatest perpetrator of violence?
The death toll from religion is pitiful compared to the death toll from basically any other cause. The death toll from religion includes what, the Crusades, a few African civil wars, and MAYBE the Thirty Years War. Combined death tolls from those are not even close to 262,000,000.
262,000,000 seems reasonable actually. I've not done in depth research, but based on the fact that Mao alone is responsible for nearly 60 million deaths, 262,000,000 really doesn't seem difficult at all.
Trust me, religion is overplayed when it comes to death tolls, and this is coming from a near on gnostic atheist. Unlike Prayerfails, you've not provided a figure, you've just vacuously claimed that religion is responsible for more. I'd like you to prove that please.
Majority of dead under Mao's rule died because of hunger caused by natural disasters that lead to about 20% food production drop and also there was no healthcare at all. Not because Mao took their food or medicine, it was simply no available. Mao send to camps or executed about 3.5 - 5 million people.
You are missing little think that you cannot form large army who you don't pay and/or feed and expect them to die for you. Every army has priests or it's equivalents eve USSR had "Politruks" who were pretty much communist priests..
If you read any speech done by generals, leader, kings.. to soldiers that there is always without exception mentioned that they fight in the name of god, or they are ensured that god is on their side. I'm sure that let's say 4000 years of wars can beat about 75 000 000 "killed by governments"
Majority of dead under Mao's rule died because of hunger caused by natural disasters that lead to about 20% food production drop and also there was no healthcare at all. Not because Mao took their food or medicine, it was simply no available.
And why wasn't healthcare available? Oh that's right, because of Mao.
The major natural disasters were flooding, which were caused by Mao's dam policies. The floods would not have lead to millions being left without crops if Mao hadn't ordered the building of thousands of shoddy, rushed dams. Of course, anybody that's studied Maoist history will know that the one reason the famines happened more than any other was the commune cropping policies. The mass government control over food meant that millions starved.
Of course, this isn't even counting the cultural revolution.
You are missing little think that you cannot form large army who you don't pay and/or feed and expect them to die for you. Every army has priests or it's equivalents eve USSR had "Politruks" who were pretty much communist priests..
This means nothing.
If you read any speech done by generals, leader, kings.. to soldiers that there is always without exception mentioned that they fight in the name of god, or they are ensured that god is on their side. I'm sure that let's say 4000 years of wars can beat about 75 000 000 "killed by governments"
Of course they do, it's just a go to phrase. When I want something to go well, I'll normally say something like "Please God, let this happen", even though I'm thoroughly atheist. But saying that you are fighting for God, and actually fighting for God are massive differences. Every WW1 leader said that they were fighting for God, but only a blinded fool would assert that WW1 was a religious conflict.
And you still haven't shown me any proof. All you've said is "I'm pretty sure". I don't care how damn sure you are, show me evidence. Here, I'll post some evidence for why government's role in murder is far higher than religion.
Mao: Responsible for 20-100 million deaths (figures fluctuate depending on source). We'll take 50 million.
Stalin: Responsible for 20-60 million deaths (The true death toll is explained in this excellent read). We'll take 40 million.
Hitler: Responsible for 18 million deaths (this one doesn't need explaining).
Those three alone give us 108 million deaths mean. Suddenly PF's 262 million is starting to look quite realistic. Now post your figures please, or I'm afraid you have nothing but vague quotes and sophistry.
Your source is a "paper" written at "B" grade univ, based on guesses or random people, claiming of having information that aren't available.
"in sum, probably somewhere between 28,326,000 and 126,891,000"<<<---this kind of range means that majority your sources are bullshit, you cannot do an average to fix it, it's not junior's maths test, this is amateurism of the highest grade.
Mao's regime was a fail but not intentional so majority of death cannot really be called murders. There were about 4M that were killed by the regime but
20-100 million deaths is same amateurish crap as your source gives about USSR...
Discounting someone's study claiming of information that isn't available yet not providing counter information is pretty much a man without a argument.
Mao may not have directly killed people, but in a centrally planned economies, that is the consequence of not having freedom, if you are planning the lives of millions without free choice, then you are responsible for them.
Post your sources on religious death tolls, or you have nothing. It doesn't matter if only one person died due to democide, it's one more than you've even attempted to prove.
PS: This is not part of the debate, but I want you to know this anyway. The reason the ranges are so high is due to the significant cover ups of communist regimes in the mid 20th century. No-one will ever know how many died, and the fact we even have a range when people like Stalin were ruling is quite incredible. To call the greatest efforts of the brightest academics on the planet "amateurist" is extremely disrespectful and arrogant.
PPS: The cultural revolution of China was responsible for around 3 million deaths, all of which were indubitably murder, not famine or natural causes, but murder. This is the usual figure, though it ranges from half a million to 30 million (I explained the reason for the range above).
Actually, the number is not random as it is very accurate considering Zedong and Stalin killed 101 million just between the two, and these are only estimates.
True, the study seemed to have missed the number of deaths caused by war. It really only covers when government kills because of political difference within its own citizens, the study totally forgot those killed in wars over political differences between foreign countries.
The number of those killed in war is staggering as well from the 20th and early 21 Century, 160,000,000 people died all under the guise of government warmongering.
420,000,000 died from government just in 100 years.
I've checked your source, it Includes all losses in first and second world war. There is random number (colonialism) without date with random number of 50M dead.
Also there is added another random number called "world total 87-99" with random rounding number of 1 331 000 dead.
UK killed 800 000 of their people? :D :D How does this slipped out from my history classes :D
The table is more than 160 000 000 off... this is without any Googling, just what I remember from my high school, which is a kind of institution you have obviously never attended.
What do you know? You dismissed his argument based on a faulty resource, but you have no resources or even any argument to support your assertion. Hes never been to school? becuae he used a faulty resource that is still not even proved to be faulty? You claimed it were faulty based on nothing but your own education, but in a debate you haave to show EVIDENCE!! So before you make a claim like someone is uneducated you have to actually show why. Youre a fucking retard and if you would like to challenge me to a debate I will accept.
Without those individuals then there would be no government. SO the thought of a single individual matters most on how it would shape the government, not the other way around.
