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In my reality, it doesn't hurt when I hit my toe with a hammer....OW
This is for those who think reality is subjective, Prodigee says that "whatever you say is true for you" but no matter what you believe drinking bleach is not good for you and hitting yourself with a hammer is going to hurt.
Objective reality exists because reality and perception are two different things. There's (one) the world we live in, and (two) the world you think we live in. Reality and perception, simple as.
You can mock it all you want, your mockery is (in your world) proof and a 'point and laugh' affirmation of objective reality but to the smarter among us, it's not.
Pain is subjective and to the person who drank bleach they aren't dead because when they were dead they weren't around to perceive their death.
Let's skip a few steps of your 'wit' here and cut to the chase:
In a reality with no conscious beings, there's no reality at all. It may as well be full of nothing because without an audience, the show never occurred. Grasp the concept yet?
It makes sense for you to Lee avoiding the questions that so obviously illustrate the contradiction of your position, but I’ll just pose it again to illustrate your avoidance.
Why is there no them for dead people to be dead to?
Because since if we asked 'who is the them' the answer would be 'one who doesn't exist' once they are dead, then that answer equals there being no them.
to this, you ask 'how do they not exist if nothing objectively exists?'
to that, I reply 'outside of perception, nothing at all can exist.'
to that, you will reply that if something is perceived wrong or not perceived at all it still objectively occurs including the perception's mechanism in itself,
to this, I will smile because you are so trapped in the idea that there's an 'outer thing' a 'real reality' outside of perception that you will always end up re-routing whatever subjective reality there is and say it operates in the objective one. What you will understand if you do progress higher in your philosophical understanding is that there is absolutely no knowable reality at all beyond what many perceive as the most convincing lie.
If 10 people in a room say something is there or isn't there and 1 person says the opposite, that person is deemed mentally ill regardless of whether or not this imaginary 'objective truth' is sided with the 10 or the 1. Life is about negotiation and subjective truth, there is nothing objective in it and even life itself is a concept solely about subjective experience.
To clarify Amarel's statement with my far more eloquent typing methodologies, if there is no objective reality then fghdfgdghebriuqui5yn9435hn[bj[wo5yn'2[46[ohnthjnop because you can't make any claim of truth whatsoever, even if your claim is that there is no truth, if there is no objective reality, because that would mean everything is equally true and not true which means dhfgbsoiugoiwuerhgw9erhghsnbfoinhwepotrpotdhpowjery9ithnihj
You could have just quoted my original post on the matter, which you disagreed with:
“There is necessarily such a thing as objective truth, or matters that are true regardless of opinion. If there is no such thing, then the objective truth is that there is no such thing. Which means only the affirmative can be the case without a logical contradiction.”
Now you're confusing subjective stuff with objective stuff and saying that what is objectively subjectively true to you is subjectively objective to you. Even though saying it is only real to you is an acknowledgement of the fact that it's not objective in the first place. Plus you and your subjective "truth" don't exist seperate from whatever is outside your subjective reality, even if you think the number goddess is what generates your existence it's still something outside of your subjective realm that your consciousness relies upon to objectively exist and experience it's objectively subjective reality.
Since you asked: All opinions are subjective. To say “subjective opinion” is redundant. When opinions correspond to facts, then they are true. It is the lack of correspondence to facts that makes your opinion false. Repeating your montra of subjective primacy will not make it correspond with fact. It won’t even make it a convincing lie, which makes it less true even by your own incorrect standard.
What is more likely cringy-wuwu? That consciousness manifests out of the aether and starts dreaming it's own reality or that complex systems like consciousness requires a complex series of interactions to create which is gradually built and contingent upon both a physical electro-chemical structure and a series of feedback loops relaying information from an objectively extant reality which is perceived through a subjective lens? Your thinking is completely backwards, you think reality depends on consciousness but it's mind numbingly obvious that consciousness requires external input otherwise there would be nothing to be conscious of. You can pretend I don't exist all you want but it will only be a sign of your own failure, because if this doesn't at the very least get you to question your subjectivist worldview then it's an objective fact that you are absolutely thick in the cranium.
Let's get down a couple basic incontrovertible facts that are based in absolute objectivity.
A: If you are self aware, then you are self aware, your consciousness is objectively real. No amount of mental or linguistic gymnastics can refute the fact that it is, you can say that it is only real subjectively because it's very existence is subjectivity in the first place, but that doesn't change the fact that you are objectively having a subjective experience. For example, you believing and pretending I don't exist because you can't refute my arguments doesn't make my consciousness disappear, it's an objective fact that I will still be here, feeling highly disappointed that you can't give me anything but excuses to avoid debating me.
B: Since consciousness is objectively real, which we know because we are both sentient, we can now ascertain the objective fact that there must be an objective reality, because consciousness doesn't simply manifest out of nothing and dream it's own reality, consciousness is entirely contingent upon their being something to perceive, and something to facilitate it's existence, therefor there must be something beyond a mere illusion.
I think you are conflating experience with reality.
Pain is subjective
Fair enough.
However, the damage to the body is objective.
Consider:
A friend of mine had knee surgery, was given some VERY effective pain medication, and told not to walk or put his weight on his knees for 24 hours. He woke up in the middle of the night and walked to the bathroom pain free.
His subjective experience was that there was no pain, but the objective reality was that he was ripping out the stitches in his knees.
Only if anyone was around to experience it will it be real.
This premise means that nothing happens unless there is a person to perceive it. That would make it impossible to even have an experience because there would be nobody around to perceive the beginning of the universe.