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Debate Score:15
Arguments:25
Total Votes:18
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Amarel(4773) pic



In this context, what does Batman represent.

In the Dark Knight trilogy, the first villain (Ducard) represents a tyrannical Right wing, the second villain (Joker) represents anarchy, and the third villain (Bane) represents a tyrannical Left. What does Batman represent?
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1 point

HOW IS BANE LEFT WING LMAO, just your average biased right-winger's take on batman. Joker is actually a violent communist who hates money in the same way FM does. After robbing the bank he set the majority of the money he got on fire.

Bane is right-wing conservatism embodied. Batman represents anarchy actually. You have this backwards.

Amarel(4773) Disputed
1 point

Bane is right-wing conservatism embodied.

No he isn’t. His rhetoric is all leftist. His values are based in emotion. He brings to Gotham a revolution which mimics every bloody communist revolution and the French Revolution all in one, complete with forced sharing of everything and kangaroo courts for the wealthy. I don’t have it backwards at all.

The Right winger is Ducard, who favors order for the sake of order. Who will destroy entire cities, in his tradition stemming back to Sodam and Gamora, that are too wayward of his traditional sense of decency.

Joker is actually a violent communist

And Joker is no socialist. He destroys money to illustrate his nihilistic lack of values. This illustrates the nihilism at the root of anarchism. Alfred explained it ahead of time, just in case the audience wasn’t attuned to subtlety, when he talked of the jewel thief who threw away the jewels. “Some men just want to watch the world burn”. Your confusion on this topic is common, as communists promise an anarchistic utopian end-goal. Early Communism shared much with early anarchism.

But Joker is clearly the anarchist. His only value was to prove that everyone else would lack values too when the rubber met the road. Joker sought to destroy social structure and this made him think he had a kinship with Batman, who was above social structure. But Batman was no anarchist.

Batman represents objective Justice. If he were an anarchist, he would be the first anarchist to regularly work hand in hand with the cops. He always works with cops so long as they are not corrupt. Which is to say, so long as they represent actual Justice.Since Gotham is so corrupt, Batman often battles even the police. But if Gotham were a Just society, maintained by Just men such as Dent in the criminal justice system, then Batman would not be necessary. That’s nothing like anarchism.

Mingiwuwu(1730) Clarified
2 points

I am not going to counter such obvious BS. :)

1 point

what does Batman represent.

Free thinkers with common sense.

Amarel(4773) Clarified
1 point

I can mostly get on board with that. Except that he puts himself in harms way, in a singularly unique way, in order to benefit the world around him. That’s not exactly a common sense thing to do.

Does he have to represent a certain ideology?

I think morality is what drives him, not a specific ideology...........................................

Amarel(4773) Clarified
0 points

I think morality is what drives him, not a specific ideology.

That’s pretty close to what I came up with in my response to Ming. I said he represents “objective Justice”.

Does he have to represent a certain ideology?

No, but it would be cool if we came up with one. I don’t think Batman could function as Batman under some ideologies, such as those which necessitate oppressive regimes. Which means he arguably could stand for ideologies in which he can function, such as Gotham’s system if people were more individually moral.

johnthethird Disputed
2 points

That’s pretty close to what I came up with in my response to Ming. I said he represents “objective Justice”.

He's a dangerous vigilante who has killed at least 15 people. If Batman actually existed you would enthusiastically be using lines like this to describe him, on account of you being one of the most corrupt and dishonest people presently alive in the world. You would probably be quite high on Batman's list of people to execute.

beastforever(542) Clarified
1 point

No, but it would be cool if we came up with one. I don’t think Batman could function as Batman under some ideologies, such as those which necessitate oppressive regimes. Which means he arguably could stand for ideologies in which he can function, such as Gotham’s system if people were more individually moral.

I'm not sure if I get what you mean by "under some ideologies which necessitate oppressive regimes".. do you mean batman representing the ideologies or the ideologies imposed on the general public?

In the first case, certainly, he wouldn't be batman under either a far left or far right perspective..

an interesting point to note is: when we move too far right or too far left, we see a decline in moral values in objectives..

and if he actually represented an ideology, albeit custom made, it would certainly have as its feature, a sound sense of morality.. this brings me to another question.. would we have batman if not for a lack in sense of morality among the public?

1 point

What does Adam West bring to your confused conversation ???????????

1 point

Is Burt Ward tied into your state of confusion ?????????????

1 point

Independent with common sense and objective morality, I would think. Or Chaotic good.

Side note, I just finished reading Batman: White Knight and it was actually really good. It brought to light a lot of things we never really think about and pointed out that the rich actually make money off the damage Batman does....which of course pisses off Bruce.

Amarel(4773) Clarified
1 point

the rich actually make money off the damage Batman does.

Did it say in what way? I mean, is he angry that the window manufacturer has so many more windows to replace?

Mint_tea(3902) Clarified
1 point

Yes it did and let me see if I can fully remember. Basically property value's are lower around the area's where Batman usually fights criminals. Lower income = more crime. There is a particular area in Gotham where crime is lucrative for Batman. Those who don't want to live near or around there anymore usually sell their property, but since middle class/lower class can't afford or don't want to buy there, the rich purchase it at a low low price and either convert it into something or sit on it. There is a Batman recovery fund that was set up on the sly and those who have property damage done by Batman (kind of like insurance) in his quest for apprehending criminals get compensation, so if someone owns a house that they just don't care about, don't live in or anything yet gets damaged, they can get money for it, even if they don't fix it back up. I can't explain it better without having the book in front of me but it was fabulous how they blind sided Batman/Bruce in this.