CreateDebate is a social debate community built around ideas, discussion and democracy.
If this is your first time checking out a debate, here are some quick tips to help get you started:
Arguments with the highest score are displayed first.
Argument replies (both in favor and in opposition) are displayed below the original argument.
To follow along, you may find it helpful to show and hide the replies displayed below each argument.
To vote for an argument, use these icons:
You have the power to cast exactly one vote (either up or down) for each argument.
Once you vote, the icon will become grayed out and the argument's score will change.
Yes, you can change your vote.
Debate scores, side scores and tag scores are automatically calculated by an algorithm that primarily takes argument scores into account.
All scores are updated in real-time.
To learn more about the CreateDebate scoring system, check out the FAQ.
When you are ready to voice your opinion, use the Add Argument button to create an argument.
If you would like to address an existing argument, use the Support and Dispute link within that argument to create a new reply.
You can share this debate in three different ways:
#1
#2
#3
Paste this URL into an email or IM:
Click here to send this debate via your default email application.
Click here to login and CreateDebate will send an email for you.
Inaccurate portrayal of Knowledge in "How to make Atheist head explode"
Some members bans before rebuttal is given in an attempt to avoid having to deal with intellect, logic, or reason. I would like to offer just that about the stupid anti atheist propaganda recently posted. I would like to create an atmosphere where people can discuss the issue without being banned for giving contradictory answers.
I would like to start off with this thought. There is no evidence that matter or energy are not an eternal constant. We know factually that they exist, unlike Gods matter and energy are real and have measurable properties which are predictable and constant. They don't have intelligence or supernatural powers as the video suggests. Factually, they are responsible for the existence of all that we know. Matter and energy constantly change by attraction or repulsion based on charge. This is factual information not a mystery or supernatural power. Knowing this and allowing for the unknown properties of dark matter or dark energy there are feasible theories that have been put forth about the beginnings of our universe. God is not a viable scientific possibility due to many factors:
1st spontaneous intellect how would it come into being? Using the current evolutionary theories intellect happened gradually over billions of years.
2nd the power to control all of matter and energy in an intelligent way at will. What we see in our natural world is a repeatable cause and effect directly related to the properties of matter and energy. There is no scientific record of any thing that is able to operate outside of these constants.
3rd there is no evidence of Gods in our modern world. Due to human nature when they didn't understand how their natural world worked they would guess. Gods became a good way to explain the unexplained. They became a good way to control the weaker minded. Many humans desire power over other humans and Gods were a good way to do this. Gods pervaded our world, even in modern society many people have been told from childhood that Gods are real. There has been a great deal of hard work put into showing the existence of gods yet it is still called faith for a reason. There is no evidence to suggest that any gods are real.
These three things must be overcome by creationists to move forward with their theory. Where as the knowledge of matter, energy and time is real and even though we don't know all of the answers about the origins of everything, we have the basic knowledge which gives us logical possibilities instead of made up magical answers.
I saw at the bottom, so my ideas presented are.. kinda pseudo creationism...I'm kinda that weird fringe. and my views won't reflect the average creationist Joe. but the following is perhaps how I would explain a system where god and science can sit on a bridge drinking beers and having a good ol' time.
1. I fancy the Idea that god came about at the end of the universe and time paradox-ed himself into the past to start the whole system running. or is otherwise outside of time existing for all time because he's not part of the physical existence of this world
2. would it not be feasible that god is acting to solidify those constants? there'd be significantly more chaos and lack of life, if particle physics just stopped working one day?
3. you and I have had a chat before about the whole water glass Idea thing that's a part of my system of belief. I personally think that it's ludicrous to assume that god can exist as any part of the physical world. (exist as a part of the observable world where evidence is actually possible to observe) but that doesn't mean that he couldn't exist outside time or in an area we cannot observe. Even at those locations he could still influence the world. but then again, this notion is about the same as luck. in some degree the notion of god is indistinguishable from luck. I just choose to believe that external forces that are out of my control that work for my good is a personal being pulling some strings on the real world. (that honestly sounds pretty bad. but hey, my world view is a mess already. one more thing won't hurt :P)
""""We know factually that they exist, unlike Gods matter and energy are real and have measurable properties which are predictable and constant. """"////
You fail to make sense in all of our conversations so I don't take you seriously. If you would clarify what you are talking about I would gladly entertain a full discussion with you.
So you are saying you believe matter and energy are eternal, changing states or forms. That means everything exists, in one form or another, always has, and always will, with no cause for it's existence. That means it is supernatural, eternal, not subject to the law of cause and effect as it had no cause for coming into existence. So we both believe in the supernatural. Get with the program, Bob, and keep on smiling.
You believe intelligence arose out of non-living and non-intelligent matter. No matter how gradually you say it happened, no matter how many quintrabillion trillion kazillion years it took, this would be a supernatural occurance. You believe life emerged out of non-living matter, this would be a supernatural occurance. You can say it however you want to say it, but we both believe in the supernatural. Deny it until you are blue in the face if you want to, and then your dead body will no longer be supernatural containing your intellect and it will return to the dust and you will see if you get your wish of going out of existence...., and keep on smiling along your merry way, Bob.
Life and intelligence both operate outside of the constants of your god of material and energy. To say there is no scientific evidence of anything operating outside of the constants governed by the laws of physics, you must have your head firmly plugging your rear end, from which you draw your conclusion that there is no God.
Saintnow you are made of molecules that are not living these same molecules make up many things, life is just one. Life happens when these molecules react with eachother due to the + or - charge they have. That is why it takes so long for things to happen in a way that caused life. We need some of these non living molecules to survive. that is why we must eat and drink to stay alive instead of by magic like you claim your God does
Life happens starting at conception, or when a single celled or a-sexual organism reproduces itself. Life never happens as a result of non-living chemicals interacting no matter how long or under what circumstances. To believe life emerged out of non-living things is to believe in the supernatural. You are believing in magic. I believe God has a plan.
It is not supernatural for molecules (amino acids) to combine with others so it would not be supernatural for millions of years of these combinations to produce RNA strands capable of reproduction. From there since molecular interaction happens countless times everyday over thousands of years it is not supernatural for DNA to have come from the RNA as the only differences are some molecular bonds. DNA is what life comes from and it is nothing more than a series of molecules that independently are not living. That makes life statistically probable not supernatural. There was no magic needed just the natural way the atoms react with each other that we witness every day.
As for your comment" Life never happens as a result of non-living chemicals interacting no matter how long or under what circumstances"
That is not true look around the proof is everywhere that you are wrong!!!!
I have been responsible for creating 6 living organisms with no help from any Gods or supernatural forces. As a matter of fact I know thousands of people who have created life with out any magic or Gods. I have not heard of even one scientifically documented case where God created a life. As I have said many times before I am a much more powerful, kinder, and more intelligent entity than your God.
My body is made of molecules. I am not molecules. Molecules cant' type. I am in control of the molecules of my body enough that I can use them to type with. If you believe you are nothing but molecules, you believe in magic with no magician performing the ticks, and you are nothing but an illusion, a meaningless illusion at that as in your illusion delusion, you would be nothing more than a mirage.
You believe in magic, Bob. I believe God put me in this body and gave me the power to type. You believe you are a pile of chemicals reacting to their environment randomly causing you to appear to be able to think for yourself and make your own choice independent of the molecules of your body.
Again, you believe over millions or trillions of years or whatever, life and intelligence emerged out of non-living and non-intelligent things. You believe in magic without anything doing the tricks. You must drink water because as long as you can drink water, you are not burning in Hell.
can you quote from the video to show which parts you are arguing against?
YOU say you are smarter, better, stronger than God so you be the real atheist here, and answer the questions.......what do you think of the supernatural, Bob, tell us? You insult everybody, so answer the questions directly and not with your long smokescreen arguments designed to avoid answering.
What do you think of the supernatural, Bob? Tell us, please, stand up like a man and answer the question or admit you are too stinking stupid to understand it.
Saintnow, for clarification matter as discussed are the subatomic particles that make up all that we know. They are not the things that exist but the particles that make up the things that exist. They are charged with +,- or 0 and they interact with each other based on the charge. This is just factual information that can be studied and learned. As with gravity there is no argument against the facts that matters exists and behaves a certain way. There is no evidence that our universe was ever void of matter or energy.
Yes, intelligence arose from nonliving matter. This would have to be the case with your idea of God also. What would your God be composed of? If it could do all of the things you say it couldn't be composed of anything we consider living as God does not need food or water to live. All living things we know of do require sustenance. Of course your God does live the smell of burning flesh, LOL
If you want to believe that you are not made up of non living molecules that over millions of years became more and more complex to the point we are now that's fine. It's not true and you can show no evidence to contradict it but you are permitted to believe what you want.
You make the claim that there are things that operate outside of the realm of our natural world James Randi has offered 1 million dollars to anyone who can demonstrate this from the 80's there has never been anyone to collect. All that tried have proved to be masters at trickery and nothing more. For some it is easy to be tricked but not Mr. Randi.
1) Science can only observe what is measurable, distinct, and quantifiable.
2) What is measurable, distinct, and quantifiable is finite by definition. If it were not finite, it wouldn’t be measurable, distinct, and quantifiable.
3) God is infinite by definition.
4) So the claim of “”no evidence for God” based on any scientific framework is based on either a complete ignorance of the definition of God, or a consciously created Straw Man.
There is nothing inherently finite in the qualities of "measurable, distinct, and quantifiable". There is nothing about them that is finite "by definition". This blatant falsehood is so egregious that one must consider it a dishonest assertion rather than an honest mistake.
uh huh. Nothing is nothing and it means nothing, but not infinitely and certainly indefinitely as you can change the meaning and twist reasoning in whatever form of contorted mental gymnastics will make you feel you have the right to exist as a sinner outside of Hell.
so show how something measurable is infinite, show how something distinct is infinite, show how something quantifiable is infinite. All three of these terms imply limitation of one or more sorts, and that is finite.
Why be in such a hurry to be contrary so you are throwing logic and common sense out the window in a rush to disagree? There must be something else on your mind you are fighting against, because your argument on this point is baseless......and not thought through.
Numbers are measurable yet infinite. Anything that we know which is measurable can also be infinitely small if we split it in half. we can do this infinitely yet we can measure that we will always have half of what we had to infinity. You are thinking inside of the Box. Let your mind open and see the real world not just your closed minded religious prison. The place where some invisible force is always watching you and judging you so that when you die it can torture you for all eternity unless you beg forgiveness for the actions of the first humans using the name of some demigod who was murdered by some Romans about 2000 years ago.
Check out this equally nonsensical statement from smiling boob....
smilinbobs(257) Disputed
1 point
Science can observe and understand infinite things it is part of the scientific world. Things can be infinitely small or infinitely large. We can measure neither but we understand them to be what they are.
This bizarre philosophy is the garbage they teach as higher education in colleges today. It just amazed me when I sat under atheistic professors and they would make these goofy statements of belief and stand their like the authorities of knowledge, and how the students would just sit there and soak it up like mindless sponges.
Yet you fail to offer any evidence that contradicts my statements. Do you know why you can only offer your twisted opinions? It's because I'm right and there are no counter arguments for facts.
Your shotgun approach of disinformation is only attempting to ignore the fact that the answer to the question is no,
Then discredit all of these, oh wise one.
Gene replication
Genome replication
Point mutations
Plasmid transfers (in prokaryotes)
Frame shifts
and that fact is what made Dawkins mad
No it isn't. YOU YOURSELF debunked that by posting Dawkin's own words.
it proves his "science" is not science but rather a belief system
That isn't true, but even if it were, how does that help your case? YOU have a belief system. Discrediting him under those conditions discredits you, as well as the people who interviewed him.
DNA is information for a cell on how it is to act and replicate. It's all coded information.
So you are saying that all genetic materiel is information? Then yes, ABSOLUTELY new "information" can be added. In fact, there is good chance that at least one of us has had genetic materiel of some kind added to our DNA from birth to now.
Can you show one example of a mutation or evolutionary process which adds DNA to the genome? No, you can't, and if you answer this question starting with any word other than "NO", you are being deceptive if not flat out lying through your teeth.
Can you show one example of a mutation or evolutionary process which adds DNA to the genome?
Here's five, and they are not the only ones. Feel free to actually debate instead of repeating the same question I have no answered three times. All of these except frame shifts add new genetic materiel and gene replication, genome replication and frame shifts all increase the potentially and possibility for change within the genome.
In fact, there is good chance that at least one of us has had genetic materiel of some kind added to our DNA from birth to now.
Sure, maybe when you got those thousands of needle pokes in your blood drawing religious ritual called "tattoo", an alien virus was put in your blood and it multiplied and gave you the power to merge with the spirit world riding on the blood that you let be drawn out of you and cast around into the environment.
so show one example where DNA is added to the genome through mutation. One. You can't, Dawkins knows it, and that's why he did not answer the question.
You are still avoiding the question, can you give ONE example of how mutation or any evolutionary process can be SEEN to add DNA to the genome? The answer is NO, genius, and that's why Dawkins had a big brain fart (somebody should put that scene in "How to make Atheist's Heads Explode) and had to take a break to gather his composure to come up with a smokescreen straw man argument which avoided acknowledging the simple question.
a duplicated gene is a duplicated gene, bozo. Your genome is what constitutes you as a person, and your genome is the same as your wife (or your baby-momma or your whore), and the children you produce will have the same genome. Variations occur within the genome as environment can trigger activation so dormant genes, and variances rise through mixing of ellels....so your kids can have different colors of eyes or hair, but nothing new has been added to the genome.
You pretended like you know something about biology, but now I'm suspecting you never actually studied it but are copy and pasting stuff you don't understand....like Bob does.
Yeah, DUPLICATED. That is more DNA, which is EXACTLY what you were asking for. Are you changing your definition of "Information" in DNA now?
Your genome is what constitutes you as a person
Yep. And entire genomes can be duplicated.
Now, if you have a duplicated gene or genome, you now have a bigger drawing board, so to speak, for other types of mutation to occur, which potentially increases the overall potential variety in said genome.
Now...
how about talking about
point mutations, plasmids or frame shifts. I'll give you time to cut and paste.
The genome in the replicated gene is the same in the original genome. You need to look up the definition of "genome", and quit pretending like you know something about biology, moron
Hahahhahahahah. no thanks, I'll pass, you can't even tell me what the genome is.
After you show ONE example of a mutation or any evolutionary process which can be SEEN to add DNA to the genome, then we can proceed. Until then, you have nothing to teach me, and you never will because it is not possible to show ONE example of DNA being added to the genome through mutation or any process of evolution.
I have showed you 5. Repeatedly. All you've done is change your definition of "information". You are a fucking moron. When was the last time you took a bio class? the 60s? Never?
Swearing is a weak mind trying to express itself forcefully. You fail to impress me, and you do nothing but avoid the question "can you show me ONE example of any mutation or process of evolution adding DNA to the genome?" No, you can't, so cuss your brains out until you are blue in the face. Did you chomp on a mouthpiece to protect your teeth from being ground to pulp while they poked you thousands of times to ink the place of the scars when they drew your blood proving you are a death defying fool? Potty mouth, typical atheist.
Swearing is a weak mind trying to express itself forcefully. You fail to impress me, and you do nothing but avoid the question "can you show me ONE example of any mutation or process of evolution adding DNA to the genome?" No, you can't, so cuss your brains out until you are blue in the face. Did you chomp on a mouthpiece to protect your teeth from being ground to pulp while they poked you thousands of times to ink the place of the scars when they drew your blood proving you are a death defying fool? Potty mouth, typical atheist.
I gave you 5. Repeatedly. You kept asking for more without debating. Then when you finally did try to, you only argued against two (and failed at that, hilariously). And still reiterated your question. You also ignored Dawkins words in the first place, even though you were the one that brought them to the debate. So yeah, fuck you, you fucking shitheaded asshole.
Hey punk, did you learn in biology how many teeth you are supposed to have, and have you ever counted them, and has their DNA diminished through your stupidity or have extra teeth been given to you from your monkey ancestors?
That is not evolution, the phony term used is "micro-evolution" and the reality is adaptation. Why do you believe what these people are telling you to believe? There is no such thing as evolution. What do you get out of it, why do you believe it?
That is not evolution, the phony term used is "micro-evolution" and the reality is adaptation.
Evolution is adaptation. Where do you see the invisible line between micro and macro?
Why do you believe what these people are telling you to believe? There is no such thing as evolution.
I could ask you the same thing.
For my part, I've been presented irrefutable information inside and outside of school. I've mutated bacteria in a lab. I've done carbon dating. I've dated an evolutionary biologist and lived with a microbiologist. My degree is in ecology, which is right at the center of modern-day evolutionary studies. So yeah, my "belief" is more of an understanding and has been supported by countless facts.
What do you get out of it
Personally? Nothing, honestly. But I don't NEED to "get something out of it" to believe something. You can't bargain with reality. Honestly, the only reason I care is because it is BY FAR the best explanation we have for the diversity of life on Earth, and the truth needs to be promoted.
The rest of the world, however DOES get something out of it. Evolutionary theory is a very important part of modern medicine. It also plays a crucial role in the conservation of species, and has even been used to help with engineering.
It doesn't make me feel better. I JUST TOLD YOU THAT. The truth doesn't care how we feel about it. If you weren't so afraid of facing reality, you would realize that.
Here's the story of evolution with a little humor added. Since evolution doesn't make you feel better, maybe a few laughs will help.
I thought you would have gotten plenty of laughs out of How to make an atheist's head explode, but maybe that was too philosophical for you so yo didn't see the humor.......try this one, maybe this will make you feel better.
Organic molecules didn't originate in the atmosphere, they emerged on the ocean floor, near volcanoes and black smokers.
The energy that "sparked it into life" was mostly needed to facilitate molecular bonds, not give it life. And that energy is ample near volcanoes or smokers.
The rest, is kinda sorta pseudo-accurate in a super simplistic way.
As far as humor goes...bout as funny as a fart in a space suit.
so boiling fluids and gases being spewed from black smokers cause non-living things to come to life and reproduce? What were those blacks smoking? LSD?
Its probably the only place life could emerge. The heat speed up the molecules and made new bonds possible as well as supplying the energy to cause protobionts to duplicate. Also, these areas produce all of the specific molecules and elements needed.
God loves you. Jesus Christ is the truth, and He does care about how you feel about Him, He does care about you and wants you to have His best forever...but you are fighting against Him, and all you do and say against Him in reality goes against you, you are opposing yourself, denying yourself of life.
for once I agree with what you say. God does love us and wants us all to be saved like I was. but with me he had to come across with an extra strong message since I was in Satan's clutches. not all get a strong vision like mine, most are more subtle. to deny God's Grace or the Teachings of Jesus is to deny oneself of Life Everlasting. Satan makes this harder for some, to accept God's Grace, by tempting them with power and riches and glory of this world. i once fell into that trap but was rescued by God's Grace which I did not deserve but am nonetheless eternally grateful for.
you must know though that John Calvin was right: not all are to be saved, or will be, no matter how bad they want it ot how good of lives they lead. confession of sins and turning your life over to Jesus is not enough. Some who do that will still not be called. Calvin called this Selective Grace and it is true. sorry to disappoint you on that but its true.
Satan works the same way, call it Selective Damnation. some of these people here who think you can conjure demos by chanting or playing with a Oija board or using mirrors are wrong. Satan only wants special people who he feels can further His plan. Like he wanted me because my music reached thousands and we were a good sounding board for him. so he offered us riches and fame and women and drugs and booze and hedonism. It almost killed me but i was lucky that God wanted me worse and came bursting into my life with a Powerful Version of the Temple Curtain being Torn in Two, which was a sign that the Kingdom of Heaven is Open to me. like it was to the Roman soldier who first saw it when Jesus expired on the Cross on Calvary.
you and saint are both wrong. Evolution is useful and is science but is Driven by God. It is called Theistic Evolution and you should look it up. i have posted links on it a couple times. science and religion should be together and not adversarial.
Theistic Evolution is nothing but ID gussied up with some borrowed REAL science like I prdactice, and then stirred and shaken with brain dead chrisitan dogma.
It makes no sense.
Listen.....
If you know Evolution you realize that it took approx. 3.1 Billion years from the first abiogenetic single celled microbes to evolve to us..homo sapien.
Right?
Right.
So...if your sky God was behind it all, driving it as you say, then what the fuck took him so long? LOL. Why not do it all in a few thousand or even million years?
And why would God create so many species just to have them die off?
Since, a full 99% of All Species who ever lived are now extinct.
Chew on that for awhile and get back to me.
Oh.....I DO like your band's stuff. My fiance has DH and Three Days Grace and Switchfoot on a Christian Rock mixed CD.
Let me know if you have any questions on Evolution. Thanks.
thank you for the compliment on my band. We appreciate all of our fans. they are why we love doing what we do.
but on Theistic Evolution you're wrong. it sounds like you know a little about evolution but not all. for one thing, I dont think it took three billioon years. maybe a couple million is all. and God could have done it quicker but went through the format of slower evolution to keep nature in balance and not disrupt the natural order. just the same reason he doesn't interfere with our normal world today, except in rare circumstance. and for all the species who you say have died off, they were just part of the process, like when plants die off but spread their seed so others can live. the dying off then wasn't failure on God's part but part of the process. but materialists like you don't see this and think that WE ( the Christians) always think God works in a miraculous way. this is wrong, he usaally lets things play out.
I'm not interested, you are promoting Satanism and witchcraft, Unity Church is occult and not Christian and I never want anybody to thing I an in any way approving of your religion or in any way agreeing with you when you claim to be a Christian. You are not a Christian, you are an occult dummy.
evolution has nothing to do with modern medicine or conservation......and engineering? please, evolution is nothing but a belief system completely useless in medicine, conservation, or engineering......evolution is just a waste of time.
Evolutionary theory is used in the development of many medicines because its A LOT cheaper than throwing random chemicals together and seeing what happens.
Evolutionary theory is used in old growth jungles and forests to determine what life lives deep within them without having to see them. Which makes it easier to prevent deforestation of those forests. Also it helps us predict potential problems from rapid environmental change caused by humans. So yes, it is right at the heart of conservation.
And engineering? As an experiment they programmed a computer to simulate "evolution" within an airplane wing and came up with one that is more efficient than any wing ever designed by man. There have been talks to use that method on creating dams and even batteries.
You know what IS useless in in medicine, conservation and engineering? THE BIBLE
you need to learn what the genome is. Because you act like you don't know what it is, I have to conclude you have never actually studied biology. Just another faker copy and pasting junk you don't understand, you and Bob
Evolution is easy to see when you look at genetics and fossil records only an idiot would argue about the factual parts of evolution. Saintnow you are asking to demonstrate something in decades which occurred over 100,000's of years. We can see that these things happened in the fossil records and through genetics. What we don't see is any sign of divine intervention. If you think you are right show us where the commonalities are in God DNA and human DNA, Show us evidence that God has caused life to happen. You always pretend to know what you are talking about yet not once have I witnessed any intelligent counter argument in your debates. You just ridicule and criticize people and ban them for having the right answer. I guess if you have no answers and are filled with anger and hate that is how you respond. I'm glad that I have the intellect to offer evidence with my (copy paste) as you call it, rather than hateful rhetoric. If you think you came from God and not because your mother and father had sexual intercourse then it is you that needs to study biology.
You know your belief in being negated in death is self contradictory against your own life and you will face JUDGEMENT! by God for pushing it against God.
I don't do much cut and pasting. If I don't know what I'm talking about, I'm not going to cut and paste what other people wrote because I would not be able to tell if what they are saying is true. I might study a subject and then comment on it when I feel competent, but cut and paste is generally the habit of lazy brains which seem to dominate your head. Cut and pasted does not add intelligence.
You know what? when I first saw you posting a while back, when I first startet noticing your screen name, I thought you were a nice guy and not overly educated. Now you sound like a typical atheist, mean and nasty and angry against anybody who challenges your beliefs, and I think you got that way from being programmed to believe you are nothing special to God but rather just a random occurrence of chemical fizzes which cause you to suffer in a world full of evil and you are spitting mad about existing when you did not ask to exist.
Just to be clear that is not what Bob does. The only thing I copy and paste are excerpts form the Bible or reference material which is portrayed as such. The only reason I copy and paste those is so that the info is given as it is written and I don't give false info. I don't know enough about genetics to involve myself in this argument hence the reason I have been silent.
You don't give false material? Ok, so the material you give is the material you give........you don't research it yourself. You proved that by trying to tell me Pliney the Elder was a historian when he had nothing to do with recording history of people, their culture, their government, or their society.
Giving what is written by people who are intellectually dishonest, Bob, and not admitting that the information you presented as factual is in fact misleading and not factual, is YOU YOURSELF BEING INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST. This is a huge problem among atheists and evolutionists, their reluctance to face facts honestly.....and I thought you claimed to me a moral atheist. If you can't admit the material you presented was misleading if not boldly fraudulent, you are intellectually dishonest yourself.......and pretending to be innocent when the facts show you are actually committing a crime presenting lies as facts, ......well, tell it to the Judge, Bob.
Dawkins never answered the question. He invented new questions, did not spell out those questions but posed them as rhetoric, and then went on to answer his own rhetorical questions which were completely different from the question which made him have a big brain fart when he realized the interviewer was not there to flatter him
Science can observe and understand infinite things it is part of the scientific world. Things can be infinitely small or infinitely large. We can measure neither but we understand them to be what they are.
God is a construct of the imagination and therefore every aspect of God was created by the human mind and can be understood and studied from a psychological perspective.
I would argue that God is not a constant as it is a construct of human imagination so each person's God must be defined individually. The proof that this is true would be the number of different Gods that have existed through human history and that currently exist today. Each God that people follow in modern day society has many groups that claim they know this God better than the others. Just look at many of your comments to other Christians where you tell them that they are a cult because your beliefs about the same God are different than theirs. This is the proof that no single God exists and it is strong enough evidence to call it proof that God is an imaginary construct of each believer.
"Science can observe and understand infinite things it is part of the scientific world. Things can be infinitely small or infinitely large. We can measure neither but we understand them to be what they are."
This is nonsense, Bob. If you want to argue, you have to try to make sense and not imply nothing means everything or anything you want it to mean, and something means nothing unless you mean something by nothing.
I think you just have to try to keep talking because as long as you are talking, it proves you are not burning in Hell and your head has not exploded.
There is no implication in any of my replies that as you say I have implied "nothing means everything or anything you want it to mean, and something means nothing unless you mean something by nothing." Now that would be nonsense. I don't know where you come up with this stuff. If you need me to make my posts simple enough that a moron could understand them I can do that I was under the impression that the people here were more intelligent. Scientist study and observe space which is understood to be infinitely large. We have no way to measure it's total size yet we understand that it can go on forever. The same is true in the other direction. If we remove half of any item. We can do this theoretically forever infinitely small. Do you understand now??
Science can observe and understand infinite things it is part of the scientific world. Things can be infinitely small or infinitely large. We can measure neither but we understand them to be what they are."
This is nonsense, Bob.
Atheism is nonsense which allows you to make this kind of nonsensical statement and actually stand there like you expect everybody to believe you are intelligent...it's fruit of the loom goofy talk, Bob.
Space which is understood to be infinitely large cannot be measured. You can measure a finite part. The stuff you are saying is nothing but nonsense intended to prove that you have a higher level of understanding than people who don't believe in atheism or evolution......when in reality it only proves your brains are scrambled and you are working so hard at proving your nonsense is logical, your brains become more and more scrambled.
Why not just admit that infinite is not measurable, and anything that can be measured is finite? Why is that so hard? Simple common sense logic is not allowed in atheism? Being insane and able to use swelling words of vanity trying to prove you are just too smart for lower minds to understand is just delusions of grandeur....and that's you, Bob, telling yourself you are greater than God
You are only proving that you reject God, Bob, and the only thing you are arguing against is your own straw man who is not God. You can't argue against God, that's why you always invent an infinite number of straw men to argue against.
Now tell us, Boob, how is the eternal constant of the universe not supernatural since is has no cause for it's existence? You are avoiding admitting you believe in the supernatural........just throwing smoke screens and straw man arguments because in reality you want to be self-contradicting because you are trying to escape punishment in death, and as long as you can continue contradicting yourself with nonsensical beliefs, you feel like you are winning when in realty you are only losing all in death, hoping it costs you nothing.
Just answer the question directly, what do you think of the supernatural?
instead of implying the video is inaccurate in portrayal of knowledge, tell us what you think of the supernatural, MR ATHEIST, so we can get it straight. My guess is that you can't give a straight answer.....and to me, that's a coward.
Prove to me that you have the right to live, and the right to exist as a sinner outside of the fire of Hell. Prove to me you are not a sinner, prove you are not dying , prove you are not going to burn in Hell forever. I won't be holding my breath waiting for your proof.
For the prophesy below to have come true, God would have had to have fulfilled
2 OTHER Bible Prophesies,
1 -to scatter them to all the Nations, and 2 - then bring the Jews back from all the Nations He had scattered them, which are also other detailed prophesied! And bringing them back was fullfilled after ww2. .. ... Thousands of years after these prophesies!
Coincidence? Or is this inaccurate?
Was Terrorism a Biblical Prophesy?
Was the Middle East Crisis a Biblical Prophesy?
How many points can we accumulate for -
Bible Truth or Bible Lie?
It almost seems if it weren't for Israel life wouldn't be quite as disturbed. How is it that 4000 years of these people who really didn't bring much on themselves historically, are the matter that brings TREMBLING (OR TERROR!!!) To the door of EVERY Nation? Has Israel been a burden to lift? When lifting Israel
have those Nations face Trembling, and being cut into pieces?
How did the Bible know Nations would lift Israel? What Nations back then lifted other Nations?
Accurate prophesy?
Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of TREMBLING unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it… For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of
the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle
1) Science can only observe what is measurable, distinct, and quantifiable.
2) What is measurable, distinct, and quantifiable is finite by definition. If it were not finite, it wouldn’t be measurable, distinct, and quantifiable.
3) God is infinite by definition.
4) So the claim of “”no evidence for God” based on any scientific framework is based on either a complete ignorance of the definition of God, or a consciously created Straw Man.
1) "spontaneous intellect" implies that God came into existence out of nothing and is not eternal. Since God is eternal, this argument against "spontaneous intellect" is arguing against a STRAW MAN!!!! hahaha, thanks Delvis.
2) to say "there is no evidence of God in our modern world", and "there is no scientific record of any thing that is able to operate outside of these constants ("repeatable cause and effect", and I would assume the other LAWS of physics are the constants you are referring to) is to ignore the fact that life and intelligence both are scientifically observable and both operate outside of the Laws of Physics as neither of them can occur in non-living matter, and believing that they emerged out of non-living matter over any span of time be it trillions of years or six days, is believing in something supernatural not operating within the constants of the Laws of Physics.
3) to say "there is no evidence of Gods is a STRAW MAN fallacy.....notice the pluralization of the word God, once again creating a STRAW MAN for a fabricated red herring argument against things which are not God, as God is God before and above all things, who created all things and any lesser description is a STRAW MAN fallacy for a fraudulent argument in which you ignore the fact that life and intelligence are supernatural and themselves are evidence of God who is not a god or Gods but is The Lord God Almighty, eternal, omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent, Your supposedly ever changing universe which had supposedly no cause by which to come into existence would be supernatural in existing with no cause of it's existence, and the supernatural is evidence of God, though your assertion that the matter and the energy of the universe exist without a cause for their existence is something you can only believe and not prove because IF there were a big bang, that would be as far back as you could go in your imagination with any concept of the material universe as it is now.
Your points are not points a believer in God needs to overcome, your points are points by which you make yourself into a fool and it is you who needs to overcome your own folly.
All of your points are answered in the video, and easily anwered by common sense, and all you are doing is talk talk talk because if you can keep talking, it is evidence that your head has not exploded and you are not burning in Hell.
I know why you are doing this talk.....it's because you love your sin more than life and you hope to escape in death.....so on you go like a moth to the flame.
You say that it is only "weaker" minds that learned to fathom the existence of God?
But that is a subjective term. One of opinion. Your opinion.
Nowhere in psychology or Anthropology have I ever heard a scientist use that term. They have only said that belief in Gods is perhaps a result of our EVOLVED minds. Since the lower animals do not have such beliefs.
So perhaps belief in God is the result of keener minds? Minds less constrained and limited to believe in only what they can see and measure? Who's to say?
Maybe Spirituality is the result of Stronger and more "in tune" minds? Minds more enmeshed with the Creator? You cannot disprove this.
Many scientists when they first discovered something that others could not fathom were thought to be of a weak or disillusional mind. Like Copernicus. Galileo. Darwin.
For those of us who believe in God AND know some science, we also know Science is limited in what it can detect. I have always like to say that Science is good at only seeing and explaining God's handiwork. But NOT Him.
Spirituality and Science are two ways of seeing the two different Driving Forces of our Universe. They should compliment each other. And they DO if you know how to look at them.
Demon_Hunter I did not state that the weaker minded were the only people to believe in God. What I said was that the stronger minded people used Gods as a means of control over the weaker minded people. That is completely different.
A modern example of that would be the 700 club, they pray on people's fear of the religious after life and offer salvation for donation. That is the stronger minded using God to control the weaker minded. This is what my reference pertains to.
Quit being a coward and answer the question directly...what do you think of the supernatural? Do you not understand enough English to answer the question?
I'm no coward, what I think of the supernatural is that there is NO evidence of supernatural events ever occurring. We know that there are many laws of nature that are predictable as they are laws of nature. All of the things that have been claimed to be supernatural have been found to be deceit and trickery.
Bob, I've lost interest in your stuff......maybe you don't realize how you lie to your teeth so much.....you go on trying to negate yourself in death, and if you succeed in keeping your wall up against God, see for yourself the proof you say is not there. You're a fool, and there's a point where it would be foolish not to give up on you.
Prove to me that you have the right to live, and the right to exist as a sinner outside of the fire of Hell. Prove to me you are not a sinner, prove you are not dying , prove you are not going to burn in Hell forever. I won't be holding my breath waiting for your proof.
You are a coward, Bob. You are a fool, Bob. You go on believing your life is not supernatural, and go on believing you escape reality in death, go on believing you owe God nothing, and see if Hell is real. That's your choice, you want reality to be void of God's goodness and God is reluctantly giving you what you want...you're a coward, you can't tell the truth to save your life and I've have enough of your double talk and denials. Go on believing the universe is eternal with no cause, go on believing whatever you want to believe, go on believing you are exempt from being in Hell forever.
Prove to me that you have the right to live, and the right to exist as a sinner outside of the fire of Hell. Prove to me you are not a sinner, prove you are not dying , prove you are not going to burn in Hell forever. I won't be holding my breath waiting for your proof.
Since there is no evidence of Hell existing outside of Greek Mythology and Christianity we can easily conclude that no such place exists outside of the imagination of believers.
It is not likely and is not usual - as a matter of fact it is HIGHLY unlikely and EXTREMELY unusual!!
Here is part of the historical event of Steven's Martyrdom
Notice his stoners coats were laid at Saul's feet.
Saul after murdering Christiand, has an unusual transformation and personally experienced an encounter with the Risen Jesus.
Saul goes from killing them to the greatest winner of souls. And by those actions fullfills PROPHESY!! And his dramatic conversion pushes the gospel out from his own countrymen to Gentiles, (other Nation other than Israel) and is well know even from those he was in league with while severely persecuting Christians.
Matt 24
14“This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Isaiah 11
10 "And in that day there shall be a Root of Jesse, who shall stand as a banner to the people; for the Gentiles shall seek Him, and His resting place shall be glorious."
.
So like it, or not this IS reasonable evidence, and along with 2000 prophesies that have already been fulfilled in detail!
With only 500 to go, and some of those are in process!
Evidence FOR GOD is mounting!!!
Stephen was martyred as murders placed their coats at Saul's feet.
SAUL Later became PAUL, and went on to become a valiant Appostle of the faith he was a murderer in war against Christians!
What changed?
Acts 7
51 “You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did. 52 Which one of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? They killed those who had previously announced the coming of the Righteous One, whose betrayers and murderers you have now become; 53 you who received the law as ordained by angels, and yet did not keep it.”
54 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the quick, and they began gnashing their teeth at him. 55 But being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God; 56 and he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.” 57 But they cried out with a loud voice, and covered their ears and rushed at him with one impulse. 58 When they had driven him out of the city, they began stoning him; and the witnesses laid aside their robes at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59 They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!” 60 Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them!” Having said this, he fell asleep.
I admit that video was basically worthless in proving God. What SaintNoClue often says is proof isn't even mild persuasion.
Myself I never found anything in science that disproves a Creator God. Or Theistic Evolution which is how I believe. And I'm not a young earther by any means. I accept the 4.6 Billion year old earth. Like I said before I think science is really my Ally as a Christian since it shows the beauty of God's handiwork.
Science DOES disprove some of the Bible stories though. But most rational progressive Christians know much of the Bible is allegory anyway. Even as a kid I didn't believe in most of those OT miracles.
this debate reminds me of the tale about what a scientists worst nightmare is?
He finally climbs to the top of The Mountain of All Knowledge and there's a Theologian sitting up on the summit waiting for him.
I face judgement every day from my social circle. The good part is that I am loved and judged kindly everyday. Your God judges me daily also but the difference is that it's really you judging me for your imaginary God and since your involvement in my social circle is as a critic I accept this for what it is. I have nothing to fear from your negative judgement so it's all good.
Check out Cartman discussing his beliefs after he tried to show his own head exploding, and then in the end he went ballistic, lost his mind, and resorted to expressing his weak mind forcefully with profanity
Atheism requires no intellect, it's just plain dumb. That's why an atheist's head will explode like Fartman's did if you can get them to try to explain their beliefs.
You are correct about the fact that atheism requires no intellect as it is the position we are all born. Until others fill our minds with thoughts of imaginary beings we don't have them. If not for people telling us about these imaginary things in our youth no one would believe in Gods. That is why it is so important to start the brainwashing when they are young and believe what adults tell them. Some of us then research the subject and discover that we had been deceived. There are many others who for what ever reason have no desire to research the subject and just accept the social group for what it is and live in ignorant bliss. Just for the record there is nothing wrong with that. My mom, my brother, his husband and my step dad do that. I never discuss my proof that Christianity is a lie with them because they are happily ignorant of the truth and don't try to judge me harshly for being an atheist.
Oh, hogwash Bob. I notice you didn't make the common stupid statement, which really is the simplification of your diatribe, that all babies are atheists by default as if babies can be interviewed to see if they believe in God. We all have an innate understanding of God because we are made in His image and likeness and no matter how much smoke you blow, you can't get it out of your head and you hope to escape God in death and get out of existence unpunished....keep smiling, keep trying, Bob. Have fun on your progressive suicide.
Your statement is an outright lie. To prove this is easy, if what you say is true then why is religion so different around the world? If your social group is Christian, Hebrew, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, or what ever religious group your peers follow why do you follow the same religious mantra? It's because that is what you have been told is the truth. Unless you take the time to research the truth you just follow along like lemmings. The three children that I have at home still are not curious about Gods at all. They must have been the only babies that were born atheists, LOL
Tell God you are better, stronger, and smarter than He is, like you insist you are, when you face Him and we'll see who the liar is. You're being a fool, Bob.
I have told your God that on many occasions and challenged your all powerful God to a test of power. I say that you God is weak and pathetic and can cause me no harm. I say that your God is nothing more than a part of your imagination. If it were a real God it would be able to prove me wrong, yet I live happily with no consequence. How can this be if you are correct? I say that it is further evidence that I'm correct and Gods are imaginary. Only a fool would allow a make believe entity control their actions in life. I'm not that fool.
Eccl. 8:12 Although a sinner may do bad a hundred times and still live a long time, yet I am aware that it will turn out well for those who fear the true God, because they fear him. 13 But it will not turn out well for the wicked one, nor will he prolong his days that are like a shadow, because he does not fear God.
Your reasoning's do not hold up as a counter argument, because we are not in disagreement about that as shown in eccl. 8:12 I do disagree with your idea that god is weak or does not exist.
A Christian lives by means of inference, as I am sure you do too. For example you can not see radio waves, but they are there. Man can not even produce the energy that is found in a microscopic atom, atoms found throughout the universe, in what sense do you claim god is weak. What do you regard as strength, is it by what you have felt in your life. Look at the strength of an old man who trust in god, though they are vulnerable and weak, they are wise, courageous, and full of faith. Faith that gives peace even in there lasts hours or in the face of Nazi assault. Can you have that peace of a future hope, can you act for the greater good of mankind or would you save yourself in dire times.
As I stated God is too weak to change the things that according to the texts and believers of the texts that God doesn't like. Saintnow tells me that God doesn't want atheists. Then how do I exist? God doesn't want evil in the world, yet there is much evil in the world. In the Christian world God doesn't even have the power to forgive without asking in someone else's name. I haven't found anything in the natural world that God can do without help.
Inner strength while thinking that you are immortal is not the power of God but the power of deceit. I totally understand that mortality is one of the biggest fears that humans face. If believing that there is a way to be immortal is how you deal with it, I completely understand.
Why don't you just tell God all of the stupid things you are telling me. And don't pretend like you don't know who God is. Just say, "Hey God, I'm more powerful and better than you and you are no good at all and can't do a thing to hurt me".
Keep saying it until you are blue in the face and see if you don't wake up in Hell. You're an idiot, Bob, a blooming idiot.
you and your stupid straw man argument, arguing against many Gods who are not God. You cannot argue against God the Creator of all things, you can only invent straw man arguments.
You and your stupid "babies are born atheists".......when you can take a survey of babies, and ask them "do you believe in God", and they can answer yes or no......when will you do that, Bob? Oh yeah, I forgot, you are smarter than God so you know more about babies than God does. LOLLOL idiot.
It is very clear that I am correct on this point. When do the children start believing in Gods? Which Gods do they believe in first? Why do some never believe in Gods some believe in Hindu Gods, some believe in the Islamic God and prophets while others believe in Christian God(s)? I have an entire post devoted to why any single believer thinks that their God is the correct one. Nobody offered any evidence to support their GodYou couldn't offer anything, other than saying that the others were false Gods
I offer real arguments that if they were wrong you could dispute but never do. These are not straw man arguments you just have no evidence because you can't dispute the truth.
That's straw man argument, Bib......."which god?" implies there is more than one God, and by definition they cannot be God as God is the creator of all things and there an only be one God. He is the one you refuse to acknowledge, and fake like you don't know who you are talking about......and use your straw man as a red herring..you are a liar, Bob, you know God is God, and there is no God beside Him. Say you don't believe, say you don't have evidence, you are a liar, Bob. You know who God is and you know you want Him dead, you are a murderer at heart, Bob...smiling bob
Your statement is the outright lie, or there would be no Christians in India, China, Iran, the darkest jungles of Africa, they all would have stay with the lies they were brought up in and never believed the truth....typical atheist and evolutionist, invent a straw man and claim it proves your beliefs.
All you do is create straw man arguments by saying "there are many who claim to know the truth, and they are all different, so none of them can be right, and none of them can be true. The straw man you have created is the idea that there is no truth......a self contradiction. The truth remains true no matter how many lies are told. You are dying, that is the truth. You try to deny that fact by saying you are living until you die, and then you are dead. You're dead now, Bob, dying forever, and fighting tooth and nail trying to prove it's not true when in reality you are asking for it by insisting God cannot be good. You've made that wall in your mind so thick, I doubt that any light of truth will ever get through.
Again I frustrate you with the truth. Why would you think that Christian missionaries would not go to India offering to help the suffering poor with new Gods, better Gods that had sent them there to ease their suffering with food and medicine for anyone who is willing to listen and accept their Gods. It worked in Africa, South America, India, ect.
As I have explained to you many times before, I'm dying, You're dying and there is no difference between what will happen to us eventually. I challenge you to offer evidence that Christians have a different post death experience than an atheist. I have see the outcome and they are all dead. Brain function stops and that is where the info that makes us who we are is all stored we no longer have a thought about anything. You are right when you say we will be dead forever. I'm not fighting tooth and nail about anything I'm just putting the evidence out there to see if anyone comes up with anything of any value in the discussions of Gods. So far nothing but insults and mindless rhetoric instead of evidence or truth.
I'm sure you are a nice guy and a good family person, but you have a problem being honest about reality and you have difficulty seeing how dishonest you become when you try to justify your existence and spit piles of hatred and insults against God and people who say we all deserve to die and burn in Hell and will burn in Hell forever if we are not saved from it. You're a hater, Bob, I know you deny it but your words and attitude tell a different story.....and I'm no longer interested in debating with you. Enjoy your time if and while you can, Bob.
You have not offered any evidence that you are really a person. You keep trying to tell me that you do not matter because you are only matter and you will no longer exist in death. I see no evidence to cause me to even begin to think you are not a person and in reality are nothing but a pile of wet dust fizzing from chemical reactions. I still say you are a person and death does not make you unreal. And I say you are a fool, which you are proving constantly.
I think you are a liar, Bob, and I'm tired of trying to get you to face the truth. If you want proof that Hell is real the hard way, go get it. You don't need me to tell you about it.
The evidence you deny now is going to hit you in the face, like it or not. It's already staring you in the face and you have a wall set up by your own choice to keep the light of truth out. You're on your way to Hell, Bob, and if you don't get saved you will get the evidence you insist you are exempt from.
You want proof that Hell is real before you believe it is real, you are asking to be in the fire, Bod, you're a blooming idiot. Go find out for yourself. You think you know now, I think you are as dumb as a rock. You are going to find out. Go.
I would accept evidence that Hell is real but if you have proof that would be enlightening. I can't even find a shred of evidence that Hell exists anywhere but in the imagination of people following ancient Greek religious texts. I have studied the origins and concepts of Hell to discover that it is just another mythical place.
You have no standard of determining right from wrong, I have no obligation to tell you how I know the difference between right and wrong. If you want to believe nothing is completely right and everything is partially wrong, go ahead and believe that...but your belief negates all arguments. If you cannot believe God cares enough to keep His word preserved and accurately translated in English, that's not my problem.
I'll give you a brief summary of why I believe the King James Bible is the word of God, and all modern versions are fraudulent and not the Bible. I posted it in another discussion. Those few paragraphs alone should be enough that all modern versions should be rejected as disqualified from being God's word.
You are wrong about a standard of right and wrong. There have been many cultures through the ages of mankind. There have been many Gods and no Gods yet causing harm to the others in your social group is always wrong and helping your social groups is always good. Morality is subjective and based on your culture.
How do you know I am wrong? What is your standard, and why should I respect your standard? what makes your standard better than anybody else's? So what if a social group sets a standard of right and wrong. My standard of right and wrong says it's right to kill them all, so my standard is the correct standard?
There is only one God. "Gods" are not God. Please quit pretending to be ignorant. You know God is the only God, and all other "gods" are not God. Can't you drop your straw man god's and argue against God?
oh, it's you, the " I hope to escape reality in death, I have come to terms with the worthlessness and meaninglessness of life and I believe I have the right to exist outside of Hell as a sinner". I thought I was answering Cartman...to my surprise, he shows signs of being reasonable which you never do in your mind-numbed rock head behind your rock wall fortress or reinforced closed mindedness hoping death gets you out of reality...what a fool....Tell your story to Pliney the Elder and see if he believes you because getting you to be honest is less fun and less productive than pulling my own teeth.
Bob, I have pointed out so many of your blatant lies it's ridiculous. You never admit to misrepresenting facts. You have a serious moral problem, refuse to admit responsibility, and that is why I always lean toward shaking the dust off of my feet and not wasting time throwing pearls to swine.
It's interesting that you can not point out any of my "blatant lies" that you accuse me of you have never provided any evidence to support your position on religion. I expected you to at least make an attempt at rebuttal yet you just spew insults and mindless rhetoric like,"Bob, I have pointed out so many of your blatant lies it's ridiculous" that does nothing to support your position. I would welcome an actual discussion or debate.
Tell God you are better, stronger, and smarter than He is, like you insist you are, when you face Him and we'll see who the liar is. You're being a fool, Bob. Keep on talking so we know your head has not exploded.
Atheism requires that you put up a wall in your mind to keep it closed......then fools like you spend countless hours dancing around behind that wall pretending they know more than God.......and one day, that wall is going go crumble and all barriers between you and the fire of Hell will be gone. You dance around behind a crumbling wall like a moth fluttering into a fire, loving what you are doing more than life, trying to negate yourself in death and fooling yourself into believing you are doing good....just like the moth thinks it's flying strong into the fire....and you really want me to think you are intelligent. I'll concede that you are intelligent, the same as a moth is intelligent as it knows how to fly straight into the fire.
Or just maybe many of us were Christians that decided to read the entire Bible to further our faith. Then realized that there was a total lack of evidence that God really existed. Then further researched the Bible to find there were many contradictions that made God impossible. Maybe from there we became aware of the world around us and looked for signs of God but found a random world with not divine presence. It can happen.
all of you who say you were Christians but no longer are never were Christians to start with. A Christian is a born again person, born of the Spirit of God which is an act of God and cannot be undone.
Bob, you hate God, plain and simple, you are an offense to Him, yet He is being kind to you because He is good. You're pushing Him to give you proof that Hell is real, doing everything you can to deny God's goodness now, trampling the blood of His Son under your feet after He died for you to pull you up out of dying in His resurrection...........you want reality to be void of God, with nothing good indicating He cares for you, and God is reluctantly going to give you what you want if you keep asking for it......you are literally asking to be in the fire of Hell forever and wholeheartedly wanting reality void of God's goodness and God loves you so He will give you the desire of your heart. You're a loser, Bob, lost and losing everything the way you are going.....keep on smiling, be proud of yourself because you are getting what you are asking for.
You're stuff is sickening, Bob. You are dying and on your way to Hell, insisting the only way you will believe Hell is real is to wake up in the fire. You're a blooming idiot, loving your pride more than life, boasting of how wonderful your path is like a moth flying into the fire. You're an idiot, and Dawkins and anybody who joins your fool club are idiots the same as you. LOL
Why do you keep fighting against God? What do you want? What are you getting out of fighting against God? Why, Bob, I mean really, why? If God is imaginary, why spend so much time arguing against Him? Idiots use the stupid flying spaghetti monster straw man which is not God, and I don't spend my days arguing against such stupidity...why do you feel you need to fight against God so much? Why not just say "Believing in God is stupid, and go on with our way? Aren't you wasting time arguing against something you insist is imaginary? And you expect me to believe you are not angry at God? If you're not angry at Him, why can't you forget about Him?
You are lying, Bob. You became angry at God for some reason, you felt He didn't do what you wanted when you wanted it, or you felt He did something the He should not have done.......whatever, something made you put up a wall in your mind and you are now Hell bent on a mission of justifying yourself for putting up that wall to keep yourself separate from God. You are choosing your own eternal death in Hell and you deserve it......believe it or not. He plunged into your dying, died in your place, paid your price so you can be set free as He is free of death and conquered death for all who believe on Him but you don't want to be saved so you won't be saved, you want to die so you will continue dying forever, God is going to give you what you want in Hell...prove me wrong, fool.
If we are all born as atheist how do you explain this?
The number of possible ways of putting nucleotides together in a chromosome is enormous. Thus a human being is an extraordinarily improbable object. Most of the 102.4x109 possible sequences of nucleotides would lead to complete biological malfunction (Sagan, 1997, 22:967, emp. added)
And then which one of these genetic codes gives us our moral choice. Until science can explain everything, which it can't you have to rely a lot on faith yourself.
The reason that the earth remained lifeless for billions of years is that it took many chemical bonds to happen before the right combination occurred for the simple RNA strand to happen. Then many more changes in that RNA occurred over millions of years to get to DNA. It was an enormous amount of trial and error over enormous time that occurred. There is a good deal of evidence that points to this being the most likely way that life happened. This is not fact but statistically it is probable and likely. There is NO evidence to support the creation or God ideas.
If you look at morality it is clear that it is a learned trait not a genetic trait. Morality is based on the morality of your peers. Morality is very different in different cultures.
What makes you think that I am looking for converts? I normally avoid religious discussion outside of debate sites. I have felt bad about causing three people now to find the truth. For those who believe and it makes their lives happier and they don't oppress or criticize people who know the truth it is good.
You are looking for converts obviously, bragging about how you converted your wife, and insulting people like me as you try to convert me. You are practicing a religion, and you are proselytizing for that religion of believing in magic which you feel gives you the power to exist as a sinner and do whatever you feel like outside of Hell.
I never bragged about me being the cause of my wife loosing her faith. I just explained the story. I discussed how her life was much better when she realized that there was no God and she would have to count on herself as there was no God to answer her prayers. That the world is not always a fair place and that bad things can happen to good people and vice versa.
So this is the best you can do as intellectual debate about God and religion. You are too much. I guess when you have nothing personal attacks are all you have. What ever makes you feel good it is fine with me.
Just being realistic, Bob. I'm not saying anything you did not say about yourself, not making baseless character slanders, not lying about what you are. You're a fool, Bob, plain and simple.
I understand you are a decent citizen with loving and kind relationships, educated enough to communicate and function in the world, and generally a happy person. That is not the issue. I have made no personal attack, only pointed out your own words....and then you feel attacked and try to deny your own words.....you are doing it to yourself, Bob. Don't blame me when you feel like I'm making you look bad. Atheists are as offensive as skunks and they argue like weasels, and your own words prove this fact over and over and over again, don't cry to me.
I would say this about your God, if your God is something other than the construct of your imagination. It would be able to show the world that there is a reason to believe, to love , to worship. Yet, it cannot. If your God is opposed to evil and were real it could eliminate evil, Yet, it cannot. If your God was capable of supernatural acts, you could point one out to me, Yet you cannot. If God were imaginary and found only in the imagination it would only be able to threaten those who believe with, something that cannot be argued, as in postmortem events that occur in some make believe world. Funny how the shoe fits isn't it.
I would challenge your God to any feat in the real world. I will always defeat your God as it is imaginary and helpless outside of your mind.
You have put up a wall in your mind, you don't care if you are dying, you oppose your own life and you're a waste of time to argue with......you don't listen, act like you know it all, in your stupidity you even said you are God and know more than Him, are more powerful than Him, are better than Him, you brag about having turned your wife to be closed minded against Him like yourself and you want others to join your club of the damned......and that is not a cussword, you are under condemnation and proud of yourself. God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked, your wicked evil is against God and it's going to be used against you by God in Judgement and you won't get out of Hell as you chose to keep your own death in your own self-promoting way. Enjoy, Bob, I think you will prove me right, sadly.
The only thing atheism works for is self-negation.
There was no atheist in the video? Did you watch the video? This is why I give up on you, you just start going too far off your rocker to be considered competent.
So, Saintnow, why don't you show me how wrong I am when I state truths like there are no supernatural events. If I'm wrong you should have no problem offering evidence that I am wrong. I welcome any challenge that is why I am at a debate site discussing religion.
Life and intelligence are supernatural events, and for you to claim you are stating truth when you say nothing is supernatural is just plain closed minded dumb, Bob.
How can I provide evidence when you are completely closed minded and have decided to reject all evidence in favor or your belief in escaping reality in death? You love death, you think it's your friend to get you out of your miserable reality, and you can have it....it's yours.
You do not welcome any challenge, you just want to spit your hatred against God and you feel like if nobody can make you see you are being a fool, you win.......and what do you win, Bob? Death? Hold your trophy high, Bob, and smile.
Look in the mirror, boob, and ask yourself "Am I nothing but a chemical fizz, or is my ability to ask stupid questions proof that I am a supernatural being?"
Try that, Bob, and observe how stupid your face looks when you ask that question, and if you don't find proof of the supernatural, then you have to admit that you have no intelligence because you believe your head is nothing but a fizz rock........
But Boob, DONT STOP TALKING AND DONT HOLD YOUR BREATH!!!! If you stop talking or hold your breath, your head will explode and nobody but you wants to be removed from God's goodness, so by all means keep talking no matter how stupid you sound, as long as you can.........it's better than being in Hell.
So if I am to understand this whole religion thing the reason that you believe that there is some magical God is because there is no way that you can believe that we evolved over millions of years. There are mountains of evidence that support that theory and there is NO evidence to support the creation theory but you are going with that one and you refer to me as stupid because I believe what the evidence points to as true. interesting
If you are to understand that you deserve nothing but death and eternal damnation in the fire of Hell, you might wake up and get saved before you dying is finalized and time is no more counted down as you fry like an eternal sausage forever.
Is there a Theist that can offer any evidence or intelligent argument for any of their beliefs? So far there are many good atheist arguments and they offer evidence with fact and science yet the theists offer nothing but insult and easily refutable rhetoric
All they really know how to do is insult people who believe God is there, and they really are not very good at that because their insults are not based in reality. They feel insulted by me simply because I point out the facts of reality. The idea that we all deserve to die and burn in Hell is viewed as an insult, and atheists want to fight about it so they resort to baseless insults. They've used decades of bullying tactics through amusements, entertainment, and public education to recruit people into support of their belief that God cannot hold them accountable for their time. It's time for people who know God is God to learn how to lead the discussion and make atheists defend their ridiculous nonsensical beliefs....and if they keep trying, they get angry sooner or later and their heads explode by their own will.
Saintnow, I don't insult you! You perceive my evidence against the idea of a God insulting. That is not the same thing. You never point out facts you point out your narrow minded religious opinion, there is no evidence offered. Hell is viewed as an imaginary place constructed in the minds of those who follow the ancient Greek texts. It is somewhat insulting for the religious followers to claim that atheists are morally inferior as many do. I have been defending my atheist knowledge and beliefs for over 20 years and I have yet to have my head explode or even a twinge of (maybe I'm wrong).
Atheism is an insult, and you have posted paragraphs of noting but continual ranting insults. You become more than nasty in those things, you become hateful and you are a bold faced liar to say you do not. You don't have evidence against God, you invent a straw man who is not God and argue against your straw man. You can view Hell however you feel like viewing it when you are not in the fire. You are literally asking to be in Hell, Bob. You want reality to be void of anything good from God, you deny the good things He gives you now, you deny He is good........you want Him gone from reality, and that means you want nothing good from God, you are against God and God is going to give you the reality you want, the reality you boast of having now as you repeatedly indulge yourself in diatribes of insults against God and against anybody who claims He is good.
I have to leave you behind, Bob, it's sickening to argue with a fool who is in favor of his own destruction.
It's you who is narrow minded Bob, believing in things you have no evidence of. You have put up a wall in your mind, and you work hard to keep that wall as thick as possible as you fight to keep God out. You have no evidence that the universe or matter had no beginning, you believe it exist with no cause eternally, in violation of the law of cause and effect making it supernatural. You believe life came from non-living matter, but it is not supernatural......that's nonsense, Bob. You believe intelligence came from matter, but it's not supernatural. That's nonsense.
The fact that the universe exists is not proof that God did not create it. You believe in things you want to believe in for one reason....you want out of existence. See if you get out in death Bob, go on and see. You want it, you got it. You want death, it's all you have Bob. Enjoy it while you can. It is you who is narrow minded, because you are too busy trying to convince yourself that you are good and do not deserve to die and be in Hell forever. How narrow minded can a person be, other than to say "there is no God". That is the epitome of narrow mindedness, and it qualifies you as being a fool.
Calling me narrow minded is not an insult, Bob? this is why I call you a liar, you are full of double talk. You have decided to reject God, and I am well aware of all of your arguments, they are nothing new, I am open to listening but I know you are wrong, and when you say you are not insulting me by calling me narrow minded you are a liar. You have posted paragraphs of nothing but insult, because that is what atheism is based on, an insult against God.
You choose to be closed minded, Bob, that is the truth. It's different than being narrow minded which is an insult. In atheism you say "there is no God" or "I have no god-belief" or "I see no evidence of God"......however you say it, it is totally closed minded and it is an insult to God, and then you post 20 years worth of insults claiming that since God has not struck you down, He's not God, and you claim to be more powerful, stronger, smarter, and better than Him. You're a fool, Bob, and I see no evidence to believe you are not a fool. It is possible for you to prove me wrong, I am open minded that you could stop being a fool, but I doubt you will ever prove me wrong as you think God cannot prove you wrong and you cannot end up in Hell with no way out. You're a fool, Bob, you are proving it yourself.
Ladies and gentlemen. The circus continues. So I present to you the next act.
Smilinbobs continues to make mindless references to science, but he cannot answer the simple question of what science has to do with any discussion of God.
But now he's going to prove publicly that his references to science are not mindless. That they are actually significant in the discussion about God.
It's funny how you make the claim of intelligence, you make the claim that God exists, you make the claim that science doesn't disprove much of the religious rhetoric. You offer no evidence that any of these things are true. Without evidence, these things must be accepted on blind faith and as an atheist you should realize that I am unable to just believe the nonsense people tell me without having some evidence.
I would like to be kinder to the atheist; I would like to be a little more understanding with them; But it's really not my fault. I was born with a very low tolerance for intellectual imbecility. So I hope you understand
Atheists, Once I make a claim and give you my justification, ..... You do not get to ignore it;.........You do not get to say that you are ""simply unconvinced""; ...... You do not ask me for more. None of that.
You either agree with my claim, or you do not. If you do not agree, you have valid reasons for disagreeing, or you do not. If you have valid reasons, you can express them as a counter argument, or you cannot. You do not try to introduce anything else.
Logic abhors a complexity............................Logic simplifies !
Atheists, Once I make a claim and give you my justification, ..... You do not get to ignore it;
Yes, but when you don't make any claim, we get to ignore you.
You do not ask me for more. None of that.
Your justifications are frequently poorly formed. You rarely give enough of your justification to make a fully formed argument, so it is ridiculous to claim that we can't ask you for more.
You do not try to introduce anything else.
Bullshit. If you don't actually include reality in your justification we are obligated to introduce it.
Logic abhors a complexity............................Logic simplifies !
That doesn't mean you are supposed to simplify your logic to the point that it doesn't actually say anything. There is no amount of text/logic that you could possibly use that would be more complex than God, therefore no matter how long winded you are, you will be simplifying.
Your shotgun approach of disinformation is only attempting to ignore the fact that the answer to the question is no,
Then discredit all of these, oh wise one.
Gene replication
Genome replication
Point mutations
Plasmid transfers (in prokaryotes)
Frame shifts
and that fact is what made Dawkins mad
No it isn't. YOU YOURSELF debunked that by posting Dawkin's own words.
it proves his "science" is not science but rather a belief system
That isn't true, but even if it were, how does that help your case? YOU have a belief system. Discrediting him under those conditions discredits you, as well as the people who interviewed him.
DNA is information for a cell on how it is to act and replicate. It's all coded information.
So you are saying that all genetic materiel is information? Then yes, ABSOLUTELY new "information" can be added. In fact, there is good chance that at least one of us has had genetic materiel of some kind added to our DNA from birth to now.
The buffon from the atheist camp that calls himself cartman said : """The video is presenting the theist argument as the atheist argument""". I challenged him to demonstrate this.
How many of you guys think he will step up to the challenge ? Or will he end up looking like an idiot once again ?
Outlaw called him "Fartman", and I was like "wow, why didn't I think of that".......but then there I go feeling guilty again for holding the guy up as a laughing stock because of his nonsensical arguments......Bob too.
I sure would like to see it.....I really was amazed and pleasantly surprised that he actually tried to put up a logical defense of his beliefs and allowed me to ask many questions as he tried to get me to believe his beliefs are logical.......then he realized he believes in nonsense and fell apart.......I don't think he will give you the chance to make him look like a fool again, but I sure hope he does...I doubt that he could last more than three back and forth responses with you before his head explodes and he goes ballistic shooting insults and profanity like a drunk with a shotgun. I almost feel guilty for enjoying the guy as if he's the town fool drunk everybody laughs at....but he really is asking for it, so am I not being kind to let him have it?
Again, you can't do anything to me again that you didn't do in the first place. You didn't make me look like a fool, you made yourself look like a fool by not even being able to understand what I was saying.
whatever. If you want to believe that you have the right to exist as a sinner outside of Hell, keep on believing it as long as you can and have a nice trip.
Check out Cartman discussing his beliefs after he tried to show his own head exploding, and then in the end he went ballistic, lost his mind, and resorted to expressing his weak mind forcefully with profanity
I only used profanity after you banned me. I was able to get in an extra argument. You completely failed to explode my head, you couldn't even discuss the topic.
And, only a weak mind is bothered by 4 letters combined together.
You were banned because your brain stopped functioning and you were no longer posting coherent arguments....obvious in your last posts. Obviously your head had exploded as your reasoning ability slipped out where the weaves are missing in your basket. Proof that your head had exploded can be seen in your filthy nasty diatribes you sent me in private messages, but I will leave those buried in the dirt they came from.
Here's the last few posts where your head exploded in profanity near the end, resulting in getting banned...LIAR LIAR pants are on fire.....hahahahhahah......you got banned after you abandoned any attept at logic and reason and resorted to insulting me with filfth profanity which you are full of, son.......
1 point
how could a supernatural singularity complete everything and then everything is natural and the singularity became nothing?
It is the cycle of life. One thing emerges gives way to something new, then goes away. For example, a star forms, creates heavier elements, then explodes and goes away. The singularity is only supernatural because it has to exist outside of nature.
If I did not believe God created all things, I would just say I don't know and I would not believe anybody who tries to tell me stuff like you are trying to make yourself believe
You haven't given any reason why God is the only belief that is exempt from being considered making yourself believe. I am saying that I don't know what happened. You asked for a possible alternative.
and you surprise me now by actually trying to discuss things reasonably
I always try to discuss things reasonably. You then start complaining that it is too reasonable and you can't compete.
I don't know what got into you, but I do appreciate you trying to discuss things reasonably and logically explaining your belief and thinking.
You are a fucking retard. I always give you great responses. You choose to ignore them. You have constantly complained about people providing you with logic, then you go and do the very thing you complain about.
See? Your brain exploded when you looked at how silly and nonsensical your beliefs are, trying to contradict your own life hoping to escape punishment in death, believing you have the right to exist outside of Hell as a sinner. Keep talking as long as you can so we will know you are here, you'll be missed in this world when you are gone.....family and friends will be forced to carry on without you, have a long life and enjoy while you can....but then again, time is short no matter how you look at it.......wellllllllll enjoy.
Why don't you provide a copy of my argument where I proved what you believe is a contradiction and you banning me shortly after that? Because you hate the truth.
It's all there for everybody to see.........go read it yourself and I'm sure you will once again explode in frustration. You're a tragic comedy, I laugh at you but I do feel sorry for you.
Someone can't once again do something they never did in the first place. The only frustration I have with you is you not being able to discuss the topic because you are an insecure coward. You should stop sending people to that debate since you got schooled like a bitch.
You discussed your beliefs, admitted you expect your head to fall in decay, and by the breakdown of the chemical bonds and the energy released after it no longer holds the bonds together, your head is naturally exploded and it's molecules are dispersed in the surrounding environment. After I made that point, it seemed like your head was spinning in circles like you were possess and you left off trying to be reasonable and returned to your nonsense style of saying things like "I'm not fighting God, I'm fighting you because you say you are God"....stupid stuff, you posted two or three of those quickly after you gave up on trying to get me to understand how your beliefs are more than non-sense and self-contradicting, then you went completely ballistic with profanity and blunt insults which might get your teeth knocked out if you were standing in front of me talking that way....banning was appropriate at that point, and you continued going ballistic on me in private messages.........it's all there for everybody to see.
Liar.....I posted the last few of your posts in our discussion, showing you went ballistic in brainless insults and profanity against me because your logic is nonsensical and it makes you mad when you try to explain it and look silly in the insane things you say
You posted me calling you a fucking retard one time. That one time was in an argument I was able to add after you banned me. You just proves yourself wrong again.
"""". It is sad that some people can't see that."""////
Look at this idiotic buffoon. Who cares about what ""it is said"" or not said. If you claim that ""The video is presenting the theist argument as the atheist argument""",
He wants to avoid talking about the video.....nonetheless, he did say pretty much the same things the atheist in the video was saying and he went ballistic when he realized he was trying to make me believe in nonsense.......now he's given up on trying to explain his belief logically and has reverted to his usual completely nonsensical stupid statements.
You put me on the spot because you saw another opportunity to tell someone else what to do instead of discussing your own bullshit like the coward that you are.
As expected you didn't respond. Cowardly insults and pretending you won. Just because you never make any arguments doesn't mean other theists don't make arguments.
The entire video is just stupid, you can tell that clearly the Christian that made it knows nothing about the laws of matter and energy. if they did they would know that in science it is not the claim that something came from nothing as it is stated in the video. The Big Bang theory is about the initial expansion of the universe and not the origin of the material that caused it. If the video had a real atheist instead of an uneducated christian playing the part they would have provided real answers instead of the foolishness that is on that video.
Atheism is stupid. Why don't you answer the questions of the video while I ask you to explain your beliefs and we'll see if your head explodes like Fartman's did.....
Saintnow I did answer the questions from the video as the first comment of this debate if you care to dispute any of the answers I welcome the debate. I expect that you will do like you always do and provide rude remarks and twisted opinions but nothing with evidence or intellect. If you do offer actual debate etiquette I can assure you I will not only be surprised but impressed
Answer right here, Bob, your answer was a red herring full of garbage...answer me right here, Be the atheist.
What do you think of the supernatural? Tell me, and there is no reason it should take more than one sentence to sum up what you think of the supernatural, but I'll bear with you if you want to drag it out in three meandering sentences where I'm sure you throw in as many red herrings as possible.
Yes, you stated the universe operates in an eternal constant, but you offer no evidence of how you know it was eternal, and if it is eternal, as you implied purposely or ignorantly when you said it operates in eternal constant, then it is not subject to the laws of nature, exists without a cause, and is supernatural.
You call the video "stupid" because atheists hate for their beliefs to be shown directly, plainly and simply. You always want to go off in a long boring dissertation about how you believe life and intelligence arose out of non-living and non-intelligent matter, believing nature is the magician and calling your belief "science", instead of what it really is, magic.
As always you are trying to twist my words I am copy/paste what was stated "There is no evidence that matter or energy are not an eternal constant" Can you offer evidence to the contrary?
Quit being a coward and answer the question directly...what do you think of the supernatural? Do you not understand enough English to answer the question? Answer the question instead of dodging it.
I like how you are avoiding the word, "supernatural", so please tell me where the universe came from? What caused it to exist? You believe nothing caused it to exist, and it always existed? Yes or no, please. Can you just say yes or no?
you also stated you believe nothing operates outside of the laws of nature, while life and intelligence both are immaterial and operate outside of those laws. Your head if full of rocks, Bob, and you think you are just a fizzing rock...it's insane, frustrating, if you want to find out if Hell is real the hard way, enjoy your trip.
so you believe the universe is eternal, and is an effect which had no cause, that means it is supernatural. I guess that explains how you think life and intelligence could come form non-living and non-intelligent matter.....because you think matter is supernatural. Got it., thanks Bob.
Why don't you quote from the video and point out where it is stupid, then explain your belief intelligently because you are correct, the atheist in that video does appear to be extremely stupid.
Then check out this video, which agrees with your atheistic premise of religion being bad, supporting that view be the typical atheistic line with ignores orphanage, hospitals, and many of our best institutes of higher learning being founded by believers in God.....this video only focuses on the bad things attributed to religion, taking the stance of full agreement with atheists that religion is bad.........you'll like this one, Bobb
Quote the video where it says something came from nothing. As I recall, that belief is one of the options for atheists to follow, and there were three or five other options of belief on which to develop atheistic philosophy.....which is not philosophical at all, but rather wishful thinking and self-contradiction which requires endless search for better knowledge as the beliefs cannot rationally be supported by science.
Saintnow, some of the belief options for Christians are that polygamy is okay, celebrating the birth of Christ is evil. Working on the Sabbath is not sinful. Homosexuality is not sinful. The list goes on, it doesn't make it the right answer. So what is your point?
That's a bunch of stupidity Bob, not worth answering. You have a concept of right and wrong because God's law is written in your heart. Deny it all you want, say you determine for yourself what is right and wrong, and you are automatically disqualified from saying anybody else's behavior is wrong because they can make their own rules the same as you make yours.
Just admit you are Hell bent on justifying your hatred against God and doing all you can possibly do to paint Christians as bad in comparison to yourself as if your generalized slanders gives you the right to exist outside of Hell.
You're a fool, Bob, and you are getting what you deserve.
Go on your merry way and find out if you have the right to exist outside of Hell as a sinner, wasting time trying to talk to you when you can't admit you're a stinking grinning liar.
Prove to me that you have the right to live, and the right to exist as a sinner outside of the fire of Hell. Prove to me you are not a sinner, prove you are not dying , prove you are not going to burn in Hell forever. I won't be holding my breath waiting for your proof.
material with an origin caused the Big Bang? I thought it was a force which caused the big bang. So how did material outside of the big bang, or a force outside of the big bang, cause the big bang, how do you know anything about any of this? Don't expect me to be stupid believing things you cannot explain logically or show be observable and repeatable science.
You don't like the answers given because they simplify atheistic belief, but you cannot show how the answers are not in line with atheistic belief. I think your head is exploding, Bob, and if you don't wake up before it's too late you are going to wake up in Hell.
