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Is Christianity a healthy thing to believe in?
Religion is a form of slavery similar to that of George Orwells book 1984 (big brother and thought crime exist), God has said that you should kill homosexuals, witches, people of other faiths and disobedient children to name a few. You can not ignore the cultural relativism religion has, you only believe in your certain god because of the country you were born in and all the people who believe differently you believe you will go to hell and you love this man, do you not question that it is not a sin to beliveve whether something is true or not especially when many children are not even aware of Christianity do they deserve to burn in hell for eternity?! The relationship is that between a slave owner and slave as you believe you are owned and your only purpose is to serve your master, you are told to love your enemy and turn the other cheek (be ignorant), you are controlled by fear. the truth is irrelevant only "faith" is important. Religion played a very big role in the Nazi's uprising and many wars surely you can not say that this is healthy? It also says that slavery is okay in the old and new testament, even Jesus recommended beating your slaves. It also says to kill your family if they follow another belief. To worship a man who sends innocent people to hell just because their country believed in another religion and so they were not aware of the religion or because they were born a homosexual is immoral. I will not tolerate religion because religion will not tolerate me.
Damnit did you not understand the guys response? You must not have.
All that shit you mentioned are done by people whom have used religion, or Christianity, as a way to bring death upon people or suffering. Christianity did not do that. Those that believe in the extreme christian way, did that. Get your facts straight. Christian intent is not to bring sorrow amongst the human civilization. My proof you ask? Do not disregard the good of mankind. Question the indifference and extremist ways of religious people, not the religion itself.
The sad thing I have discovered about Warrior is that he won't accept that Christianity especially Catholicism has its flaws anything bad done in Gods name he twists and says its political but anything bad done by people who believe in another religion he immediately blames that whole religion and says they are evil. He has really gone down in my estimation following a couple of debates we have had recently
the bible says to kill homosexuals, it said that slaves are fine to keep and Jesus recommended beating them!
Leviticus 20:13 "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
the concept of loving your slave master is still there, the illegality of abortion, euthanasia and gay marriage are still there. homophobia, sexism, and the death of gay people, people who couldn't get abortions, people of other religions and atheists are still there. The bible is still read as fact and positive and holy to children! indoctrination is still there. All of these things are in the bible and worshipping someone who advocates slavery, killing people with other beliefs and gay people is unhealthy
Well, unfortunately, there are more than one religion. And not only Christianity or Catholicism. There is also what you call a muslim religion my friend. No need to blame everything on them because they are just defending what they believe in.
Re-claiming something is not defensive. A reclaimation is an offensive act. Youre statement is a contradiction. It was an all out offensive to take back the "holy land"
Regardless the Christians involvement was a reaction to an invasion if the U.S was invaded would you say we would be wrong for responding and retaking lost ground.
And the dark ages where caused by the PAGIN BARBARIANS sacking Rome and destroy in most of its knowledge. What wasn't destroyed though was saved by the CATHOLIC CHURCH you like reading? Well the written Latin language (latter every written language in Western Europe notice how all western country's use the same alphabet) was SAVED by the CATHOLIC CHURCH YOUR WELCOME
Pter was appointed BY JESUS to be the head of his church on earth and so he was and so was every pope to come after him just as The Lord Jesus commanded
You are wrong, and I have proven you wrong. It is really sad when people refuse to look at the FACTS. I will post the proof for other curious minds who are willing to think for themselves.
Jesus cannot be hear on earth to show us the way to salvation that is why he established the papacy starting with Peter the pope is gods shepherd on earth to show his people the way and protect them from the wolves
then why do you believe in anything the bible says? it could (well I say could) be a whole lot of bollocks, if one verse was written by man whi says the whole thing wasn't, especially when it says the world is flat, the world is 6000 years old and sorcerers exist and should be killed
Jamstamanify, Why do you believe anything that you read? Everything in print is a lie. We all know that lies are based on facts. This is because nobody recalls all details and the blanks need to be filled in. If ten people witnessed a car crash and where asked to describe the what happened, you would get ten different versions of these events. What would remain undisputed is that a car crash occurred. Details are irrelevant, Christianity is about Jesus. Not a flat world or who old the earth is.
Leviticus 20:13 "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
I completely do not care about homosexual marriage however the Bible calls homosexuality a perversion. Read for yourself (Romans 1:26). Tell me what you think but please just don't tell me to fuck off.
It does say do not lie with a man like you lay with a woman. A lot of people say this as saying homosexuality is a sin. What do you say to them? I just can't see how it deals with prostitution.
As Thewayitis said, the Bible was written by humans influenced by God. They obviously put their views in it, too. For example, if you were writing a book that could possibly influence everybody's lives in the future, you'll probably include a few things important to you like, in your case, it's okay to love another of the same gender. Obviously, in their times, that sort of thing was so bad, you'd probably get shunned by your family for declaring you were homosexual. The people writing the Bible thought that too and so included it. Jesus never said that it was terrible to be homosexual. He said that God was love and love was holy so why would he say that it was a bad thing and suddenly contradict himself?
he also criticised people for not killing their disobedient children and to beat your slave and also he said to the disciples they must leave their children and families which is child abuse, he also threatened that if you don't love him more than your family he will send you to hell for eternity. If it was written by evil bastards why do people read it?
"he also criticised people for not killing their disobedient children and to beat your slave" I'm pretty sure Jesus did not say that.
"he said to the disciples they must leave their children and families which is child abuse" He didn't mean on their own! Children have mothers as well as fathers, you know.
"he also threatened that if you don't love him more than your family he will send you to hell for eternity" He said you should love everybody including him but that he was God Almighty so you should always follow him no matter what whereas family are humans and so do stupid things. You wouldn't idolise your parents if they became drug dealers would you?
It was not written by "evil bastards". It was written by humans but with the influence of God - something atheists struggle with. Some things would be completely unacceptable in today's community but these things were written by imperfect humans thousands of years ago who, as I said before, obviously put some of their ideas in as well. This doesn't mean that the Bible is rubbish - almost all of it is what God wanted them to write - but you do get the odd bits which are not completely godly things to tell the world to do.
read the evil bibles page "what would Jesus do?" all of my facts are backed up. It's not like it's something atheists can't comprehend it's just obviously not written by some one with even a small amount of knowledge by today's standards even my little sister knows that witches don't exist and the Earth isn't at the centre of the universe! if you believe that about the bible why the hell do you read it? you should disregard everything it says as it was written by cave dwelling sheep shaggers who believed in witches
1) It wouldn't be 'by today's standards' - it was written over two-thousand years ago!
2) Witches are not in the Bible the same as Tarot cards and Horoscopes aren't in the Bible.
3) As I said before, most of the Bible is great! Like 99% of it is truth and great advice to how to live your life - it's just that 1% that atheists on this site always pick out to try and catch Christians out.
4) The last two sentences (if you can even call them sentences) are completely illogical. Btw, I'm thirteen. Compare my arguements and the one I'm replying to...yeah...
then why do people believe anything it says it was written by stupid dessert people 2 thousand years ago and is evil in so many ways, it is so inconsistent and unreliable
Those are the people who make it out to be a bad thing. I may have started on the side saying religion is good, but I have since changed my opinion to say that it's not inherently good, or bad, it just has power to be.
That power can be good if used by good people, or people who want to do good, such as an ex con who wants a reason to not kill again, or a an alcoholic who feels that Jesus may be a better coping mechanism than Vodka.
Just as the power can be used evilly, as in the hands of person who wants more control of his government and claims that god told him to run for senate only to become a corrupt person. Or like with the crusades, where people fought to the death to say that their God was more real or better than their enemies'.
the debate is whether it is healthy rather than good, something can be good in the way that it could be used to treat a disease but have terrible and dangerous side effects
if it cures a disease but has side effects that are less than the original disease it's healthy by compariosn.
The christianity is be chemo, and all of the deaths that was caused by it is the side effects, but the killings that were caused becuaseeople had nothing to believe in is the cancer.
Lol, I don't like the taste of McDonald's but here I go.
McDonald's is Christianity, all food that is bad for you is, but if you don't eat anything at all that's worse than McDonald's or junk food. Just as if religion just never existed the people that it saved would have not been.
Also, religion brought about so much art in the Renaissance, which might not be healthy or unhealthy but it's good for the world in how it shows our creativity, just as McDonald's or junk food, if never enjoyed makes for a pretty boring life.
Life without enjoying your self every now and then isn't really worth living.
think of all the people who died because of religion gays, "witches", atheists, scientists, philosophers, artists and all the people who died in holy wars.
I couldn't give less of a shit about art when all these people have died and who says atheists don't enjoy themselves I went to the zoo yesterday : P
I was saying that eating McDonald's is better than eating nothing. If you have no access to food at all, then it is best to settle on McDonald's than starve. That analogy means that Christianity may be bad in a way, but just like junk food it's better to have than to go without because, the people that it saved.
And sure, I wouldn't think of exchanging even a single life for all the art but the people that were killed were going to go some way or another. I think I said in an earlier post that people, will find something to argue about. If it's not about differing religions, it'll be about how much food someone may have stored for the winter. So with that said, it's better to have the people that would have died due to religion die in exchange for art, than to have the other people killed for other petty arguments, and get nothing out of it.
As for the fun bit, I'm not saying atheists don't have fun. I actually believe they have more fun than Christians sense they are subject to less social laws, but instead it was another analogy. Religion gives the religious a reason to live or something to fight for, if they never had that they may have found something else to believe in, but without the unexplained omnipotence of a figure pulling the strings in a bigger picture, it wouldn't really stack up.
If I may add it is talking about the time when they were populating the earth. We are populated now. If fact we have more people on earth right now than we ever have and more people here now than all the people who ever died. So, acouple of homosexuals are really helping the over population.
Ok, So I am an atheist. But I still believe that Christianity can be a healthy thing to believe in for people. Religion for most people help them a lot actually. Even though I'm not a fan of any religion really, I think that Christianity can be healthy. It just depends on how far a person goes with it. If they are one of those like 'Hardcore' Christians, then I don't really think that is very healthy. It makes them narrow minded and so absorbed in religion which can never be good. But for most, it helps them with their life, therefore causing it to be healthy.
It seems like someone is biased, as your argument has more holes than a number 9 sponge. however in response to some points
1: God commanded those things of the Jews, if you have a problem with that then take that up with the Jews.
2: Whether or not christianity had anything to do with the Nazi's is speculative and irrelevant, its a straw man. I may aswell condemn athiesm for Mao and Stalin who killed almost as many people as WW2 did.
3: Slavery in ancient Israel was not like common slavery that we know, it was a voluntary act and a safety net for the poor, much like a marriage or adoption.
Absolutely Christianity is healthy to believe in, and more it's a great way to live our lives. Being a Christian means, being Christ like. Christ means ''messiah'' which means Savior. If everyone tried to help others, even save them from their horrible circumstances, like orphans, the hungry, the poor, the heartbroken, then how much more a better World would we live in? If we all implemented Jesus' ways by serving others and thinking less of ourselves then WOW! Christianity is being Christlike, so of course it is healthy to believe in and apply to your everyday life.
It doesn't teach people to blow them seves up or kill people like Islam or go turn you into a pretentious know it all like atheism while still providing believers with comfort, answers, and a moral code to live by. so idd say yes it's very healthy.
Not really the Quran promotes jihad directly the bible never glorifies pedophiles. Look I know not ALL Muslims are like that and live peacefully with other religions. But according they'r profit they are heretics for doing so.
They are talking about accepting those who follow THE religion as in Islam I saw nothing there about accepting OTHER religions So no I don't believe TRUE Muslims do
You are wrong. I just proved from the Quran that Muslims believe in freedom of religion. I know more about Islam than you do, as I have actually studied the subject since I was 13 (I am 31 now), and I am friends with a tried and true Muslim who is NOT a Jew or Christian hating Jihadi terrorist. You would do well to research the subject for yourself, and not believe the media's propaganda. They lies a lot. It also helps to talk to ACTUAL MUSLIMS. I am not fond of Islam either, but I refuse to believe the lies.
That quot I showed you was the same quot but from the Yasuf Ali version of the Quran and it clearly refers to other religions as evil. That's pretty intolerant. And I have studied Islam I know a fare deal about Islam for instance did you know it was the Muslims NOT the Christians who started the series of wars we now know as the crusaids
You are wrong. That verse supports religious freedom. You will do anything to justify your hate, including lie and twist things. You are dishonest and uneducated. Come back to me when you know what you are talking about. Askut. Inta himar.
All i did was copy and paste I twisted nothing. I'm sorry you didn't like what you saw but my sources where the same as yours and therefor just as credible.
Uh, no. You are believing the media's lies. Islam may have some fucked up ideas. No one is denying that, not even me. But saying these things about Muslims is like saying that all or most Catholics support pedophiles.
Again no where in the bible dose it say pedophiles are good but in the Yasuf Ali version of the Quran in CLEARLY calls other religions evil. I'm not referencing the media im referencing the exact same website that you just did.
It's calling witchcraft evil and given the nature of what is usually considered or was usually considered witchcraft idd say it is....or was...whatever you know what I mean
Witchcraft is not a religion it's a practice that at the time that the bible was written and also for a good amount of time thereafter was outlawed in most of the known world. So I guess Idd say close but no cigar try again.
Wicca which is what I assume you are talking about only really came about as an "organized" religion with an organized set of believes at the first half of the 20th century WAY after the bible was written so at the time that the bible was written witchcraft WAS NOT i repeat WAS NOT a religion it was a suto-scientific practice set around a variety of pagan beliefs (varied from witch to witch) or in some cases satanic beliefs that was OUTLAWED through out most of the known world. Try again
There is a very clear difference between an organized religion with a set of beliefs and doctrine and a theology (which is defined as a lose set of myths and beliefs) witchcraft up until the 20th century when Wicca came about was nothing more than a theology. A theology not even followed uniformly by all witches one witch could believe in these gods while another witch beloved in those gods and another witch worshiped satan. do you see what I'm saying? witchcraft while often having some theological driving factor could only at that time be commonly classified as an illegal form of suto-scientific experimentation often delving into the dark arts (human experimentation, animal or human sacrifice, and or hexing or as we would know it today manufacturing of viruses and or harmful chemicals such as poisons) so no I am not making a fool of my self but you are. You should probably stop challenging my superior intellect you losing pretty badly.
But Christians are intolerant of other religions and other denonimations of Christianity and have used this as an excuse to kill and blow people up for years so Christianity is no better than Islam
Which denomination has done that in the modern world name the exacted nomination not the anti whatever group the individual belonged to name his denomination
Its the longest ceasefire so far, it was hardly regional conflict it involved international terrorism and the only reason they were killing each other was one lot though being Catholic was right the other lot thought being Protestant was right so they started killing each other that's Christian killing Christian because they think their version of believing in God is right
Well that's a very isolated incident. when compared to Christianity as a whole it's still a very peaceful religion. Whereas Islam has active terrorist cells in countries all over the world violence is a much larger part of Muslim culture that Christian culture.
9/11 was one isolated incident but because of it the media is trying to convince the world that Islam is evil and Muslims want to take over the world, the sad thing is people are falling for it
Also your very isolated incident in Northern Ireland was supported by many Catholic Americans.
Well I'm a Catholic American and I always thought it was wrong besides you said there is a cease fire so that means that at this moment there is currently NO Christian terrorism in the world. But there is still Muslim terrorism however
You are not seriously trying to compare the amount of violence and murder and destruction done in the name of Islam to a scuff up in Northern Ireland. Christianity as a whole is FAR less violent than Islam
I mean for Christ sake we are talking about Northern Ireland a region of the world that has been in a civil war / rebellion agains Britten for the last century if not longer. Okay that little Catholic V.S Protestant dust up is a fucking bar fight to these people.
If you won't talk or listen to sense I'm not gonna bother debating you, that little scuff up in Ireland which you admit yourself has been going on for most of the last century was started over Christianity but you ignore that because it clashes with the belief that Islam is the big evil in the world and Christianity is all flowers and love.
Islamic terrorists what have they done recently smashed up a couple of tower blocks and blew up some trains compare that to the best part of a century of hotels, cars, schools and pubs all blown up in the name of catholosicm add the broken legs kneecappings and murders that the IRA have done that's the main catholic terrorist group in Ireland covered add the other catholic groups then the protestants, that's a big old body count. Now let's look at America you've got the KKK a racist Christian movement responsible for all sorts of atrocities and I'm sure there's others that's just two countries where people have committed murder in the name of Christ there's probably more and if you looked worldwide I'm sure the body count would far exceed the Islamic body count or at least equal it.
Stop repeating the lies you have been fed by the media Islam is not the enemy any more than Judaism is or any religion is. All religions have good members and bad members some are really fucked and blow shit up some are just intolerant of others and label anyone with a different belief evil or wrong and some are just cool people who live and let live and don't judge a whole group of people on the actions of a few.
The KKK? They are a joke no one in my country takes those drunken idiots seriously and the IRA is fighting the British forces in Northern Ireland they're trying to kick the Brits out they aren't fighting in the name of Catholosism they are fighting for freedom and the Brits and "orange volunteer" loyalists stand in they'r way because the Brits want to hold on to what's left of they're empire and the intolerant orange volunteers won't except livening in a country with a Catholic majority. That conflict is an Irish revolution with some minor religious undertones don't twist the facts.
So your saying the KKK have never committed any acts of murder or violence and are just a bunch of harmless drunken idiots?
I'm not twisting any of the facts about Ireland the IRA are not freedom fighters they never have been their Catholic Terrorists, Britain has allowed Northern Ireland free rule before and it degenerated into fighting and murder between Catholics and Protestants, when Ireland was given the vote on wether to remain part of the UK or become independent the South voted for independence the North voted to remain part of the UK. That was when the IRA and others started over decades of terrorism. The troubles in Northern Ireland started over religion and religion has been the main reason for the fighting, get a bunch of Irishmen together they will fight over religion before anything else, my Nan who was Irish-Catholic used to take in boarders but only good Irish lads and no Protestants her own words.
I know Americans like to think of the IRA as freedom fighters battling the evil Brits for freedom but its not true. If the IRA are freedom fighters so is Al Queeda
Al Quida are murderous Muslim dogs. The IRA and orange volunteer pukes fight because the IRA wishes to be free but the orange volenquers are so intolerant that when Britain freed Northern Ireland they launched a terrorist campaign against the Catholic majority and got the Brits called back in. I have protistan friends hear in the states they are good people but Irish Protestants are just intolerant brutes
The KKK where once a threat but now they are a joke. And as for AlQuida THEY'RE A BUNCH OR MURDEROUS MUSLIM DOGS. And the IRA are freedom fighters and defenders of the faith against the orange volenquers who are so intolerant that when Northern Ireland was freed they launched a terrorist campaign against the Catholic majority and got the Brits called back in. I have Protestant friends here in the states and they are good people but Irish Protestants are just intolerant brutes.
Ever heard the phrase one mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist? If the IRA are Freedom Fighters and protectors of the faith then Charles Manson truly is the Messiah, it would be funny if it wasn't so sad that people like you actually believe that shit but then that's what they relied on Americans who were dumb enough to believe their bullshit and fund their murderous activities, the IRA are no better than Al Quieda if anything Al Quieda are better than the scumbags in the IRA because they reminded some Americans exactly the kind if shit they had been funding when sending money to Ireland in support of the "cause". People who support the IRA have the same blood on their hands they are murdering bastards who over the years have murdered many innocent men, women and children.
You obviously suffer from religious intolerance but never mind some people just have prejudices like that for some its religion for others its colour or sexuality some people suffer from all three kinds of intolerance which is sad but what can you do its pointless trying to talk sense to prejudiced people
I think the closest thing you will find to an entire denomination that promotes terrorist acts would be the west burrow baptist church and even then your going to have a head time convincing me that holding up offensive signs is akin to terrorism.
The Bible actually does glorify pedophilia, it just wasn't considered being a pedo back then; wedding the 11 year old daughter of a man you slaughtered was considered a "proper marriage" 2000 years ago.
Yea but as you said that wasn't pedophilia at the time the bible was written 11 years old was considered an adult. So it dose not count on the grounds of historical context
When the Qu'ran was written it was a very violent time and the first line of defence was often attack, so the verses in the Qu'ran talking about killing infidels do not count due to historical context
As Ashman pointed out, that counter-argument could apply to pretty much anything in the Bible or any other holy book, so if we accept it nothing from any holy book has any significance on the grounds of historical context.
No I was simply saying that because at the time a 40year old marrying an 11year old was not pedophilia than any bible story where such a marriage is arranged then dose not actually talk about pedophilia.
Like, the Bible glorifies genocide; just because back then it was considered "doing gods work" doesn't make it not genocide, it's just that's not how they saw it back then.
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
Islam has many followers who are law abiding citizens but there have been terrorists who connected themselves to the religion but this does not mean all Muslims are terrorists, Christianity is just as guilty of creating terrorists just look at Northern Ireland and there are just as many pretentious know it all Christians as there are Atheists.
Its no more healthy or unhealthy as any other religion.
Islam doesn't request its followers to kill themselves or anyone else, its actually very similar to Christianity. Atheists aren't know it all's either they just voice their opinion on religion, and show their facts that tend to disprove allot of religious teachings. Any religion is healthy as-long as you don't let it go to your head. By the way there is a spell check and you should try to use correct grammar because sometimes its hard to understand what your saying.
Islam doesn't request its followers to kill themselves or anyone else, its actually very similar to Christianity.
In the Koran it says to kill infidels or people who don't really believe in their god.
Also Islam and Christianity do say something about Jesus but they have more differences than similarities like Islam believes that Jesus never died on the cross or rose from the grave and that the whole thing is fake.
Christianity on the other hand believes that Jesus did die on the cross and rose from the grave and if Jesus didn't that the faith of Jesus Christ would be useless and a fraud.
I may have the wrong information but, i believe that was added at a latter date, by a different prophet. Even so Islamic people aren't all destructive extremist's and when i said their similar i meant the moral and social structure. I recognize they have different beliefs but i meant their similar compared to wiccan/shinto/budism, all of which are structured very differently.
There are healthy aspects of any belief just as there are unhealthy ones. A healthy belief which isn't found in Buddhism or hedonism for instance is "falling into" the chaotic world fully as an agent of responsibility.
Lets take a look at what Christianity teaches. Love thy neighbor that's a good lesson if everyone followed that there would be no more bigotry and a hell of lot less war, thou shall not kill okay anti murder that's good, thou shall not steal anti theft that's also good, thou shall not bare false witness against thy neighbor okay don't lie lying is bad, thou shall not commit adultery okay don't cheat on your spouse, thou shall have no god but me okay nothing harmfully there, honor thy father and your mother listen to your parents got it god, thou shall not covet, thou shall not worship false idols, hmmmmm I'm not seeing any thing bad or harmful here you guys must just be intolerant.
you can pick the good bits out of Mein Kampf, maybe the parts about him being a Christian soldier who fought for justic and truth. It wouldn't make Hitler a good person.
Hitler followed many laws of the bible and this is what lead him to kill the jews, homosexuals, atheists, people of other religions it was also used by the nazi troops to get them to follow Hitler and kill millions of people, the catholic church were in league with Hitler and swoar loyalty to him
also you even edited the morals, it was if you don't honour your parents you will be stoned to death, that is the correct "moral". If you think that worshipping idols is bad you are saying all Hindus are bad people.
The Ten Commandments tell us what we should and should not do they say nothing of punishment so no I didn't edit anything. And Hindus aren't "bad" they just believe in an untrue religion it's not really their fault. They where not shown the way of truth
truth is irrelevant, your entire belief system isn't based on facts but faith so claiming that it is true is false as it can't be proven, the very definition of truth is that it is proven correct and you have not done that and you have had 2 thousand years. You believe that they will be tortured for eternity when they did absolutely nothing wrong and then say your God is just and loving and not unfair and so you believe they deserved to be tortured for eternity surely.
Your facts are all wrong. Religion is what has founded many countries and set the basic rues for life, it also gives people a solid foundation for living
And to the creator of this debate I have a question. Is it wrong to love and honor thy father who has brought you apon this earth and given you all you have?
I don't believe that so it means nothing to me, it is like me saying "you are wrong because you don't worship Allah" It is wrong to worship a man who tells you to kill homosexuals though yes
Actually the human race has evolved for generations upon generations. God did not "place you" on this earth, Evolution has. Secondly, he has not given us "all we have" because you seize your own fate. Science has disprove allot of what the "holy bible" has to offer. Another reason i think its unhealthy to believe in it is because so many of the christian community assumes that they have the only opinion that's even plausible and insist on trying to impose it on people of other faiths.
You can't disprove the Bible. You can put out the theories of evolution but you can't go back a few million years and prove it. I for one do believe in God and evolution, but I don't believe anyone has the power to just state that the Bible is wrong and atheists are right. No one is trying to insist on trying to impose Christianity on people of other faiths, you just take it that way. In fact, people just explain how their two things could co-exist or work. That is the whole science thing - working out what could've happened - but you can't actually link two things together and come up with an answer and then state you (as in general, not you) are right and anyone who thinks anything else is wrong. For example: substances react when put together due to the molecule layout etc. How do you know that that isn't true and that God makes chemical reactions happen because he doesn't approve of certain things being placed together? I don't believe that myself, but you never know.
You do have a good point. I just personally don't believe in an omnipotent being sitting up in the sky controlling everything. I do believe there are gods, not just one. I do think they had influence on how we evolved, but i don't believe they made life or a planet. Oh and you can't exactly prove the bible either
God influenced evolution it's called Devine intervention or inelegant design. And we we gain what we have through our successes which we achieve through the grace and blessings of god.
I have read the bible and I know how sick it is,Leviticus 20:13 "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
I definitely agree with you KingK. This man who started this, and wrote all these bad things, could really benefit from knowing Christ. Not knowing who he is!, but truly knowing him and having a personal relationship with him, as I do.
I am the person who started this, you have not denied or dis proven any of my points you just told me to do something that is impossible or to be mentally ill. I'm glad you agree with me that the bible says bad things. I am aware of Jesus, he is based on many other Gods such as Mithras who was born on the 25th of December, died for our sins, had 12 disciples, was born from a virgin, is worshipped on Sunday (because he was a Sun god) etc. he also said to beat your slaves "That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows." - Luke 12:47 He criticised Jews for not killing their disobedient children alsp.
I am a Christian so my answer is yes most of the time. I do get angry with God but I still love Him. If I did not give a fuck, I would not care. I am glad that Jesus is my God and Saviour.
I assure you if God was real he wouldn't feel the same way about homosexuals.
Romans 1: 1:27 "And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. "
Leviticus 20:13 "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
That is about temple prostitution. 2 Samuel 1:26 I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: very pleasant hast thou been unto me: THEY LOVE TO ME WAS WONDERFUL, PASSING THE LOVE OF WOMEN. 1 Corinthians 7:9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for IT IS BETTER TO MARRY THAN TO BURN. Matthew 19:10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry. 11 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. 12 For there are some eunuchs, WHICH WERE SO BORN FROM THEIR MOTHER'S WOMB: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.
It was impossible to castrate fetus in those days, so an eunuch so born from their mother's womb is a homosexual. There is more where that came from. ;)
then why didn't it say eunuchs, why did it generalise into an entire sexuality meaning millions of people would die, this is just one story there are others were God directly instructs people to kill gay people for that reason.
I have already done this one: Leviticus 20:13 "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
I think its a healthy thing to believe in because you know that there is a God to help you in time of need and He is always for you and is always doing good in my life.
the video titled biblical slavery is compleatly takeing things out of context. the bible refers to the isrialits as the belivers in god aka the faithful why would god make laws reguarding the other nations meaning othe faiths if those people arent going to follow them. look god watches over his children. aka the faithful aka the isrialits notice how most slaves in america became christian that ment they had to have been rleced after six years and previded for or it was a sin. its not gods job to look after those who turn there back on him by choice.
you do not choose what you believe in, did you make a choice to not believe in Allah? if so, when? that's what it's like for atheists it's like you not believing in any other religion
I was not raised in a particularly religious house I chose to believe in god I chose Catholicism. I could have easily been an atheist but I chose to be one of gods children
I wasn't mocking you I was stating a fact, when I was a child I had to sing that I was a sheep to God, it is a very famous saying and has been used for centuries. I do not follow a religion and you can mock my philosophy I don't give a shit it means nothing to me as it isn't proving your point at all and makes you look stupid
this whole debate is mocking my religion "is chrystianity a healthy thing to belive in?" of course it is i would be dead without it. in middle school i was bullied relentlessly and i even contemplated suicide on more than one ocassion but i didnt do it becouse in catholisism i learnd that suicide is a sin and if i took my own life i would go to hell and suffer 10 tmes what i was suffering on earth so yeah im alive becouse of my religion.
But it wasn't any of those things that kept me from doing it. In my darkest moments when it seemed to be the only option it was the warning of my priest that stayed my hand.
but it wasn't the only option, you could have got therapy, read a book on the problem, done yoga or meditation there are millions of options, maybe if you didn't listen to the priest you wouldn't have wanted to commit suicide in the first place or you would have taken a logical step towards beating the problem like reading a book or looking for methods of relaxation and self improvement. There are so many different options and variables.
your bible says that I am a fool with an evil heart, I deserve to burn for eternity and if your child is atheist you should kill them, I lost respect for religion long ago. In this circumstance I did not mock you I said that Christians call themselves sheep and this is a well known fact it is in many books, songs and sayings. If you find that disrespectful then it is your religion that is wrong not me.
I'm non religious and even I'm aware of the good relgion can do. It acts as an anchor to society. As a goal to better than yourself. Anyone who even thinks relgions is bad, read the bible. It's a good, inspiring, moving story. God is made to be the perfect figure so that humans, as we know who are not perfect, can reach for some form of perfection.
I believe when the bible was written it was written using alot of figurative launguage, and metaphors. Saying things like 'God made Earth' only to say this perfect person made Earth all that it is. The problem with Christianity is not in the religion, it's in the people.
The bad people who don't want God to do good for themselves, they want God to oppress others.
The fundamentalist who believe literally everything they read in the bible, and cast their back on modern medicine because of it.
Worst of all may be the people who take the bible literally but decide that since none of it can be proven, that it must be a load of crap and become, self righteous atheists.
Christianity is a good premise. Most religions are, they are only made to make people do better, with the promise of eternal life and great things beyond.
These videos were too hilarious but showed very obviously what side the O.P. was on. What about a video that shows some satire of how Christianity is healthy.
Everything matches up: take Exodus 14, parting of the Red Sea... and what do we find a thousand years later? Chariot wheels at the bottom of the Red Sea! OPEN YOUR EYES!!!
Even if the world is torn by religion, it won't help to announce that a religion is bad, that will just create more arguments. Also, there is evidence everywhere that Christianity IS REAL, you just need to have open eyes and an open heart for information you don't want to hear.
I think the self-loathing, human-blaming, guilt, low self-worth, and offer of vicarious redemption (not working to absolve your sins, not righting your wrongs, but putting your sins on another) are all poisonous and unhealthy things Christianity teaches.
Of everything Christianity teaches, I think prayer is the healthiest. It's like meditation; getting your mental ducks in a row.
From my perspective paying homage to any god is only doing two things:
1. Blaming an unknowable force for knowable circumstances, thus lazily absolving one of any responsibility, involvement, or even care.
2. Crediting an unknowable force for individual and human achievements.
If a religious person is the sole survivor of a plane crash they will have the tendency to thank god and all his holiness for this great miracle while at the very same time miraculously absolving that god of all of the death that god must have been the cause of, or at the very least been capable of preventing and did not.
While in the same situation the non-religious will have serious questions as to why the plane crashed to start with and be thankful someone invented seat belts.
If a religious person sees a good act or does a kind deed, they will give this god all of the credit completely undermining the ability of humans to do such on their own.
When a non-religious person sees a good act or does one they do not feel a fuzzy awe at some divine thing's greatness, but instead realize they are capable of that good on their own.
God is an escape from the human condition. Without him we are forced to live here, in the present, and be responsible good or bad.
If there were a god he would prefer the atheist over the whining and perpetually helpless theologian who can only act humanly out of fear or promise of reward, and whose all evils they shrug off as a lack of divine intervention and weakness.
to all the people saying that the bible supports homosexuality. Leviticus 20:13 "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
also the bible advocates slavery and genocide, many Christians use this and have used this to keep slaves like in America which is just really wrong and Hitler who was a Catholic did genocide as you all know
Concerns arise when children in their teens develop imaginary friends. Ascertaining to what extent the child believes the friend is real is important. Some teen girls have imaginary boyfriends, a quite harmless practice, when they understand that the boyfriend doesn't really exist.
A teen or young adult with an imaginary enemy or friend, however, may be manifesting some degree of schizophrenia. Talking to one’s self frequently or believing that some unknown enemy is going to hurt one suggests the teen should be evaluated by a mental health practitioner.
God is essentially an imaginary friend so I believe this is a valid piece of evidence. These things are true for teens who are still kids really, imagine adults. If having an imaginary friend can be dangerous mentally I teens, it's practically insane for adults. By insane I mean completely irrational. If a child dreams up a magical invisible pony they play with then it's cute and creative as long as they don't cling to it and can let it to at an appropriate age (as most do), now imagine if that was an adult. They would be subject to psychological analysis because they would appear mentally abnormal.
The point is, believing in anything that is rediculous and untrue is foolish. It disrupts our cog stove reasoning and ability to think critically. We all grow out of Santa clause because we learn soon that there's just no evidence for him and he is therfore illogical. That is a natural thing to do, and what our brains are for. But through religion that ability to analyze logic and make decisions for oneself is repressed through brainwashing at a young age.
In the case if Christianity I would argue its even more insane. To believe in an invisible friend, sure, it's illogical and a little crazy. But to believe in a magical creator of the universe as well as all the psychotic stories in the Bible? That is just absolutely mental. The stories repress human emotions and subconscious actions in an unhealthy way. They teach backwards morals and Bronze Age practices such as slavery and genocide. Not to mention the stress it can bring. The constant fear of hell that is used as a tool to convert people or keep them from leaving can be enormous. I would know, I dealt with it.
It is unhealthy. Simple. It is fundamentally unnatural in every way and the things it teaches are immoral and stifle human advancement.
It is not healthy to be fanatical about anything, or to accept religious beliefs as fact. But if you keep questioning it and accept only that which you know is right, that's fine.
Christianity is pretty famous for hating other religions and forcing their will upon other people. For a few examples, the crusades, manifest destiny, the Spanish conquistadors, only to name a few. If you have no plans in trying to spread it as fast and as forcibly as you can than its probably healthy, except for devoting all your reason to one larger entity. Never mind, if i was you i would turn heel and get away from this religion. It seems a lot more trouble than its worth. Unhealthy!
Because Christians have been so good at keeping their hands off other peoples stuff like for instance America and before you start bleating that it was the Spanish not Christians that invaded America massacaring people as they went I will point out it was Catholic Spanish that conquered America and for a long time they would not allow you in if you were not Catholic.
That's standard procedure in any colonization you bring the people into your culture and kill the ones that will be a problem that's just how it goes it was for Spain though not for Christianity
Or as the case was farther north it was for England. Those were imperialistic endeavors actually motivated primarily by a lust for gold not so much religion
If it was purely for gold they would allow the most useful person into the country not only allow Catcholics or are you admitting that the Catholic church is corrupt
What pisses me off is when they bitch on about Muslims being evil and whatnot but when the attrocities done in the name if the Christian church are pointed out to them they make up flimsy excuses.
I know right? Look at the Crusades. That was so uncalled for. They suck the Israeli gov's dick, excuse my language, and do not know the difference between supporting Jews and supporting the Israeli gov.
Thats one of the three and actually you are wrong. They were primarily spanish, but alot of their motives was backed up by christianity. Whenever they landed somewhere they forcefully converted all the people or killed them all.
That's standard procedure in any colonization you bring the people into your culture and kill the ones that will be a problem that's just how it goes it was for Spain though not for Christianity
Christianity does it all the time though. Those were just some examples. Do more research on what your arguing about. Christianity caused those crusades, and that's a fact. Christianity told the people of america to move through the west to take over the native american tribes and anyone else in their way. Christianity just is destructive of other cultures by natures, because there is only one, all knowing, all powerful god. If you don't side with the church your an enemy. And No, you are wrong. Spanish conquistadors went out and took over people in the name of "god". Its just one example of the thousands upon thousands of times that "god" has ordered people to kill and conquer everything they can.
Dude your view of history is fucking warped people have use gods name to motivate people and inspire courage even when doing unspeakable acts that probably got them sent to hell like when the Muslims conquered Jerusalem and slaughtered all Jews and Christians in side or when the native tribe people would rape kill and scalp settlers in the name of settlers in the name of their gods or when the Aztecs would rip the still beating hart out of a mans chest to offer it to the sun god (thank god they were converted to Christianity right) so you see the Christians aren't always the bad guys.
I don't hate Christians they are just following what they were indoctrinated or tricked into. I hate what it says in the bible, that I am evil and worthy of dead amongst other crimes against humanity as slavery, intolerance and stoning innocent people.
the world being flat makes sense to you? sorcerers existing makes sense to you? God killing his son so he can forgive people makes sense to you? the earth being 6000 years old makes sense to you? me having an evil heart and not being able to do anything good makes sense to you? women not being able to teach or have authority over men makes sense to you? being able to beat your slave as long as he doesn't die makes sense to you? not letting women any where near temples because they are on their period makes sense to you? people who are worthy of being tortured for eternity because they eat shell fish, were born gay, don't love or believe in the man who said all this bullshit, trimming their beards makes sense to you? killing disobedient children makes sense to you? Noahs ark makes sense to you? if you don't agree with just one of these you will be tortured for eternity does that make sense to you?
Stop. What makes seance to me is god created the earth and humanity through the processes we now know as the Big Bang and evolution. What makes seance to me is that there is no way to heaven except through the father. What makes seance to me is that marriage is between a man and a woman and that it is a partnership between the two. I follow the modern teachings of Christianity. All the stuff you were saying is not thought we are told they are morally wrong.
but there are still so many things that are still wrong, even the creation story is sexist, false and ignorant. the woman was made for the man, their purpose in life was to please men (sexist). don't eat from the tree of knowledge (ignorant). all animals were created in the same time 6000 years ago(false). Noahs ark, if I was to explain all the reason why that is impossible I would be here all day. If that makes sense to you and is the only thing you understand it does not make it true it makes you ignorant.
devine intervention states that god created the univers through the event we now call the big bang. and created humans through the prosses we now call evolution. the creation story is a dumbed down explenation of the big bang and evolution (both caused by god) ment to explain our origins to a more ignorent humanity all those years ago. this is the official interpritation used by the Catholic Church. so your argument is invalid.
it isn't a dumbed down story of the big bang it is completely different there is plants before fish and even the fucking sun. of course the Catholic church would say that but that means the entire bible is off as there is a time line which goes from the garden of Eden to the end which lasts 6000 years when in fact Humans have been around for at least 100,000 years and the earth is 6 billion years old. It also says the world is flat.
well then you are very very silly, just because someone who is important says something does not mean it's true that is a totalitarian and dogmatic belief
Who would know better than them? Well other than god but he only talks to certain people. Arguing from authority isn't always a sign to totalitarian dogma dumb ass.
Please do some reserch before you comment, jerusalem was in habited by muslims. The christan rusades came and murdered every last man woman and child. When the muslims tried to take the city back they sieged it. The christans surrendered and the muslim armys let the remaining christans leave in peace. Once again do a little studying before you post an argument. You obviously dont reserch the topics your argueing about. And theres no point swearing, its immature and un professional.
It was held by the Byzantines first the Byzantines where Christian the Muslims took it slaughtered pretty much every one and then when the Christian army's of Europe retook the city they repaid the favor. An eye for an eye that's in the bible. Then yes after the Christians gave the city back the Muslims showed some humanity. They do that sometimes its rare but they do that.
They seem to show it more often throughout history than the christens have. In the Quran it says something like "you have your religion, and I have mine." So in the basics of the religion its still probably a healthier religion to believe in. I still think that polytheistic religions are the best way to go because they provoke thought more than a monotheistic religion.
No they are not because only god is the true god all others are false. It matters not how "thought provoking" their worship may be it is empty and sinful.
I'm sorry but you are so wrong. There is absolutely no way to put this but you are a blinded self righteous devotee that does not further society, only to hold it back. If your that closed minded about everything you won't aspire to be anything. You don't hold any truth with your statement. You can NOT prove your god is real. I can't prove mine are real either. I have reasons to believe same as you, but i have no solid proof. If you claim to have some show me, but i can guarantee that you can't prove it without a shadow of a doubt. And any form of worship can be fulfilling, so no its not "empty". Its only sinful from your point of view. These are some of the reasons Christianity is loathed and proven wrong again and again, because your so close minded when it comes to the world. Case solved, your argument is invalid.
I contribute nothing huh? My faith has shown me the way of riotousness and it will lead me to law enforcement where I will have the opportunity because of the rapid nationwide switch to the community policing model to become a leader in my community and take proactive steps to preventing crime and making society safer.
Riotousness isn't a good thing. It means your full of yourself. A good leader listens to everyone with an open heart and an open mind. You are so close minded you can't even consider the other side. That's what makes you useless
Riotousness means your upstanding it means your dutiful it means you always do what's right. I'm not closed minded I work very well in teams actually. The only thing I'm really set in Is my religion
Yeah so you must spend allot of time doing nothing but empty work. You have no proof that they don't exist. You also have no proof that they do exist. Therefore its all Beliefs. Therefore, stop pretending like your religion knows it all. Thanks =) oh and by the way, there is a spelling check function on here. Maybe you should use it some time
My religion is the most widely practiced religion in the world. That says something about it. Humans seek out the truth and inherently lock onto it when they believe they have found it more people have found truth in Christianity. So I'd say billions of people world wide can't be wrong.
Sure they can. Quantity does not equal quality. When you have so many stupid, blind followers it makes a bad equation. You can belive it all you'd like but your not right. No one is perfectly right so stop trying to impose your belifs. I can't stand people who don't think. Obviously your one of them
I'm wrong? How so? What Is right? How do you now its right? What all knowing entity imparted this knowledge to you? See you're pretending to know every thing now to.
I never said i knew everything. I just know that your beliefs aren't the best and you should stop being so sure of yourself. I question everything, and when people claim to be all knowing it gets on my nerves. Maybe you should learn some humility and leave people to believe in their own religions.
Well I feel certain in my beliefs some times you need certainty in life. You need that one thing you know is true it keeps you sane when the world goes mad. And I'm not forcing anyone to convert I'm simply spreading the message of The Lord it's completely the listeners choice wether or not they chose to follow it.
I love how you Christian apologists repel in horror when you hear about Muslim or Jewish atrocities, and yet you don't even flinch when someone talks about the rape, murder, genocide, lying, deceit and homophobia committed by your God.
The Spanish Inquisition was an attempt to maintain Catholic indoctrination through violence. You clearly feel asleep in history class. Didn't do your homework, did you?
I'm not going to deny that people have been influenced positively by Christianity, but it's ludicrous to suggest that no bad things have come out of it. Ever heard of a little something called to Holocaust?
I am no apologist as far as I'm concerned Christianity has nothing to apologize for the holo cost was caused by hitler a mad man and his actions were condemned by the Catholic Church.
the fuck are you talking about? Hitler was a Catholic, his first amendment was to let the catholic church take over education and all catholic priests swore loyalty to Hitler
You most certainly are an apologist. You distort history so that it falls in line with your narrow-minded views. You sugarcoat the abhorrant acts of rape, murder and sacrifice in the Bible. You deny the demonstrable bad things that are a result of religion.
Of course the Catholic Church condemned it. They had to cover their own arses. If you look at the real history, Pope Pius II stayed silent on the Holocaust for years after it started:
“No doubt a protest would have gained me praise and respect of the civilized world, but it would have submitted the poor Jew to an even worse fate.”-- Pope Pius (Rychlak 2000, p270)
Numerous religious statements are made in Mein Kampf. Here are just some:
"The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. For God's will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will."
"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
Then there were the private statements:
"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so."
- Adolf Hitler, to General Gerhard Engel, 1941
But perhaps the most damning evidence came from chief Nazi architect Albert Speer, who declared that not only was Hitler a Catholic until death, he also forced chief associates to become Catholic. Hitler also advocated "Positive Christianity" (basically his own batshit, anti-Semetic version of Christianity) and spoke negatively of atheism, comparing it to Bolshevism and communism:
"For eight months we have been waging a heroic battle against the Communist threat to our Volk, the decomposition of our culture, the subversion of our art, and the poisoning of our public morality. We have put an end to denial of God and abuse of religion. We owe Providence humble gratitude for not allowing us to lose our battle against the misery of unemployment and for the salvation of the German peasant."
Many of the offical policies of Nazi Germany (the homophobia, the outlawing of abortion, etc.) were based on Christian ideas. Here is Article 24 of the German Workers' Party (pre-Nazi term):
“We demand liberty for all religious denominations in the State, so far as they are not a danger to it and do not militate against the morality and moral sense of the German race. The Party, as such, stands for positive Christianity, but does not bind itself in the matter of creed to any particular confession...”
There is no special critera required to be a Christian. All you have to do is to state that you believe in the Christian God. Hitler did this several times.
The origins of anti-Semetism came from German Christian preachers. Martin Luther (considered the founder of Protestantism) set the standard with his book On the Jews and Their Lies, in which he stated that the Jews were:
"base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth."
""full of the devil's feces ... which they wallow in like swine,"
He also suggested seven actions to be taken:
1.for Jewish synagogues and schools to be burned to the ground, and the remnants buried out of sight;
2.for houses owned by Jews to be likewise razed, and the owners made to live in agricultural outbuildings;
3.for their religious writings to be taken away;
4.for rabbis to be forbidden to preach, and to be executed if they do;
5.for safe conduct on the roads to be abolished for Jews;
6.for usury to be prohibited, and for all silver and gold to be removed and "put aside for safekeeping"; and
7.for the Jewish population to be put to work as agricultural slave labor.
so because some crazy homicidle mad man clamed to be Catholic even though what he did was comit mass murder a HUGE sin. you claim all religion is bad? people missuse religion all the time to justify there own atrocitys and hatereds it dose not make religion evil. and pope pius said it best if he had stood up to hitler and condemd him sooner theres no telling what hitler would have done no doubt the jews would have born the brunt of his anger. and you must realize europe has a tradition of anti-semitism that dates back pre-christanity with the Roman and greek pagins. all of this was nothing new and the holocost was not a christian atrocity its a german atrocity.
If you sin and believe in the Christian God, you are still a Christian. Religion is self-identified. Anyone who honestly believes in the Christian God is a Christian.
I do not claim that all religion is bad. I merely claim that it can be used for bad things and has been used for more bad things than good.
Misused religion is still Christianity. Your interpretation can be as warped as you like; if it believes in the Christian God, it's a Christian ideology.
The real reason Pius remained silent was to avoid a separation between Roman Catholics and German Catholics. His ultimate desire was to increase the power of the papacy.
Pre-Christian antisemitism was mainly ethnic in nature. Religious and racial antisemitism is a primarily Christian invention. Even Hitler's fundamental belief in the supremacy of the Aryan race was inspired by his Christian belief that Jesus was an antisemite. His Cristian beliefs justified his racism for him. Even if he was primarily a racist, he applied Christianity to this.
I turn your attention once again to the 25-point program of the Nazis:
"Party as such advocates the standpoint of a positive Christianity without binding itself confessionally to any one denomination. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit within and around us".
Hitler also outlawed all atheist and freethinking groups in Spring 1933 including the German Freethinkers League which at one point had a membership of 500,000. Chairman Max Sievers was guillotined in 1944. If Hitler was an atheist, why would he do this?
A Christian is not some one who simply says I believe in god. A Christian is someone who follows the teachings of Christ such as love thy neighbor the holocaust was any thing but that. Christ thought his followers to spread the message of his love and bring all non believers into his kingdom not systematically murder them. He misused Christianity to justify his sick genocide he was by virtue NOT a Christian because he did not follow the teachings of Christ. He committed murder mass murder in fact. Look a the Ten Commandments it says pretty clearly in there not to do that. A REAL Christian would not have done what hitter did. And as for pious we have his word and a motive other people think he had now he was a holy man a man of god and seeing as how lying is a sin I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Miss used Christianity is not Christianity it is a perversion of a good thing being used for evil. Nazism is Christianity in the same way that (and I'm going to get a little geeky here) venom is Spider-Man they are clear opposites ones good the other is evil. And as for the good things Christianity dose. Do you know how many charity's the Catholic Church runs? Do you know how many hospitals and schools they have built around the world? Don't tell me Christianity doesn't do any good because the proof the contrary is located in virtually every country in the world.
There isn't just one interpretation of "the teachings of Christ". Different churches have their own views. The Mormons added a whole extra book to it. You're a Catholic, right? They believe in Purgatory, which directly contradicts 1 John 2:2 ("He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world." [ESV]) The Bible, like any other book, is not set in stone; its meaning can change an twist over time. The Bible is fallible like any other book. The fact is that any rendition of Christianity, however warped, is still Christianity as long as its main tenant is belief in the Christian God. There is no such thing as "false Christianity" and there are no criteria required to be a Christian. Groups like the KKK (don't you have to be Protestant to join?) the WBC and Christian Identity are still Christian as their discriminatory view of Christianity influences their behaviour in the same way that Hitler's belief that Jesus was an anti-Semite justified his racism for him.
About Pius XII... you seriously think that churchmen don't lie? They are earthly and fallible like the rest of us. The papacy have spread plenty of lies throughout its history. There have been many dishonest Popes. Take Alexander Vi, who secretly fathered children, slept with his daughter and commited his first murder at age 12. His family were in on the act as well; Johann Burchard, priest, wrote:
“(Cesare) had them bound, hand and foot…. Some he shot, and others he cut down with his sword, trampling them under his horse’s feet… he wheeled around alone in a puddle of blood, among the dead bodies of his victims, while his Holiness and Madam Lucrezia, from a balcony, enjoyed the sight…”
Or how about Leo X, who abused indulgences for money that should have gone to the poor whilst he lived a lavish, spendthrift lifestyle? Or what about the current Pope Benedict XVI, who refused to act on complaint about a preist who had abused 200 deaf boys (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8587082.stm) and, during the infamous sex scandal invovling anal and oral penetration of children as young as three, told bishops to not consult the police on the issue on pain of excommuincation? Of the 5,000 abusive preists estimated to be in the US, just 150 have been brought to justice. This reeks of a cover-up. (http://bit.ly/WAGh9w) The church is guilty of propaganda on a scale that belittles Goebbles. Take Uganda, for instance. It's one of the most homophobic countries in the world-- the Anti-Homosexuality Bill could make being gay a capital offence. Where are they getting their anti-gay propaganda from? The church. The main sponser of the bill, David Bahati, has connections with The Family, an influential Christian group.
And as for the Catholic church... don't you know that it's a deeply homophobic organisation? With LGBT youth who are rejected by their parents being eight times more likely to attempt suicide than the general population according to Caitalin Ryan, this is a serious issue. And let us also consider their stanse on contraception. It would have been fine if they had said "we don't like condoms but it you have to use one so be it". But no. Instead, they spread the dangerous lie that condoms somehow make HIV/AIDS worse. In Africa, where more than an eighth of the population are Catholic, the papacy has abused its power and has done nothing to ease the HIV/AIDS pandemic. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L1xvdZMC10)
Let's have a look at some of your God's less savoury teachings, shall we? Are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin.
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
The LORD is a jealous God, filled with vengeance and wrath. He takes revenge on all who oppose him and furiously destroys his enemies! The LORD is slow to get angry, but his power is great, and he never lets the guilty go unpunished. He displays his power in the whirlwind and the storm. The billowing clouds are the dust beneath his feet. At his command the oceans and rivers dry up, the lush pastures of Bashan and Carmel fade, and the green forests of Lebanon wilt. In his presence the mountains quake, and the hills melt away; the earth trembles, and its people are destroyed. Who can stand before his fierce anger? Who can survive his burning fury? His rage blazes forth like fire, and the mountains crumble to dust in his presence. The LORD is good. When trouble comes, he is a strong refuge. And he knows everyone who trusts in him. But he sweeps away his enemies in an overwhelming flood. He pursues his foes into the darkness of night. (Nahum 1:2-8 NLT)
For the land of Israel lies empty and broken after your attacks, but the LORD will restore its honor and power again. Shields flash red in the sunlight! The attack begins! See their scarlet uniforms! Watch as their glittering chariots move into position, with a forest of spears waving above them. The chariots race recklessly along the streets and through the squares, swift as lightning, flickering like torches. The king shouts to his officers; they stumble in their haste, rushing to the walls to set up their defenses. But too late! The river gates are open! The enemy has entered! The palace is about to collapse! Nineveh's exile has been decreed, and all the servant girls mourn its capture. Listen to them moan like doves; watch them beat their breasts in sorrow. Nineveh is like a leaking water reservoir! The people are slipping away. "Stop, stop!" someone shouts, but the people just keep on running. Loot the silver! Plunder the gold! There seems no end to Nineveh's many treasures – its vast, uncounted wealth. Soon the city is an empty shambles, stripped of its wealth. Hearts melt in horror, and knees shake. The people stand aghast, their faces pale and trembling. (Nahum 2:2-10 NLT)
"I have wiped out many nations, devastating their fortress walls and towers. Their cities are now deserted; their streets are in silent ruin. There are no survivors to even tell what happened. I thought, 'Surely they will have reverence for me now! Surely they will listen to my warnings, so I won't need to strike again.' But no; however much I punish them, they continue their evil practices from dawn till dusk and dusk till dawn." So now the LORD says: "Be patient; the time is coming soon when I will stand up and accuse these evil nations. For it is my decision to gather together the kingdoms of the earth and pour out my fiercest anger and fury on them. All the earth will be devoured by the fire of my jealousy. "On that day I will purify the lips of all people, so that everyone will be able to worship the LORD together. My scattered people who live beyond the rivers of Ethiopia will come to present their offerings. (Zephaniah 3:6-10 NLT)
"You Ethiopians will also be slaughtered by my sword," says the LORD. And the LORD will strike the lands of the north with his fist. He will destroy Assyria and make its great capital, Nineveh, a desolate wasteland, parched like a desert. The city that once was so proud will become a pasture for sheep and cattle. All sorts of wild animals will settle there. Owls of many kinds will live among the ruins of its palaces, hooting from the gaping windows. Rubble will block all the doorways, and the cedar paneling will lie open to the wind and weather. This is the fate of that boisterous city, once so secure. "In all the world there is no city as great as I," it boasted. But now, look how it has become an utter ruin, a place where animals live! Everyone passing that way will laugh in derision or shake a defiant fist. (Zephaniah 2:12-15 NLT)
Stand in silence in the presence of the Sovereign LORD, for the awesome day of the LORD's judgment has come. The LORD has prepared his people for a great slaughter and has chosen their executioners. "On that day of judgment," says the LORD, "I will punish the leaders and princes of Judah and all those following pagan customs. Yes, I will punish those who participate in pagan worship ceremonies, and those who steal and kill to fill their masters' homes with loot. "On that day," says the LORD, "a cry of alarm will come from the Fish Gate and echo throughout the newer Mishneh section of the city. And a great crashing sound will come from the surrounding hills. Wail in sorrow, all you who live in the market area, for all who buy and sell there will die. "I will search with lanterns in Jerusalem's darkest corners to find and punish those who sit contented in their sins, indifferent to the LORD, thinking he will do nothing at all to them. They are the very ones whose property will be plundered by the enemy, whose homes will be ransacked. They will never have a chance to live in the new homes they have built. They will never drink wine from the vineyards they have planted. "That terrible day of the LORD is near. Swiftly it comes – a day when strong men will cry bitterly. It is a day when the LORD's anger will be poured out. It is a day of terrible distress and anguish, a day of ruin and desolation, a day of darkness and gloom, of clouds, blackness, trumpet calls, and battle cries. Down go the walled cities and strongest battlements! "Because you have sinned against the LORD, I will make you as helpless as a blind man searching for a path. Your blood will be poured out into the dust, and your bodies will lie there rotting on the ground." Your silver and gold will be of no use to you on that day of the LORD's anger. For the whole land will be devoured by the fire of his jealousy. He will make a terrifying end of all the people on earth. (Zephaniah 1:7:18 NLT)
"I will sweep away everything in all your land," says the LORD. "I will sweep away both people and animals alike. Even the birds of the air and the fish in the sea will die. I will reduce the wicked to heaps of rubble, along with the rest of humanity," says the LORD. "I will crush Judah and Jerusalem with my fist and destroy every last trace of their Baal worship. I will put an end to all the idolatrous priests, so that even the memory of them will disappear. For they go up to their roofs and bow to the sun, moon, and stars. They claim to follow the LORD, but then they worship Molech, too. So now I will destroy them! And I will destroy those who used to worship me but now no longer do. They no longer ask for the LORD's guidance or seek my blessings." (Zephaniah 1:2-6 NLT)
"Take your son, your only son – yes, Isaac, whom you love so much – and go to the land of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains, which I will point out to you." (Genesis 22:1-18)
Ha those "unsavory" teachings are form the Old Testament Christianity focuses on the New Testament. So they are irrelevant though I do love to read about the battle scenes they are really exciting. And their have been unchristian popes like those who had connections to the Borges. As for the child abuse scandal the Vatican is working to resolve this. And the Catholic Church is hardly to Blame if some of its followers take some aspects of its teachings to far that's the individuals fault not the religions.
"Ha those "unsavory" teachings are form the Old Testament Christianity focuses on the New Testament. So they are irrelevant though I do love to read about the battle scenes they are really exciting. And their have been unchristian popes like those who had connections to the Borges. As for the child abuse scandal the Vatican is working to resolve this. And the Catholic Church is hardly to Blame if some of its followers take some aspects of its teachings to far that's the individuals fault not the religions."
In response to warrior's comment. . .
Denying the OT, are we? Let me present other quotes:
“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV)
"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)
"All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..." (2 Timothy 3:16 NAB)
"Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21 NAB)
As for the Borgias, the fact is that they were in a position of religious power and they used this religious influence to justify acts of rape, incest, poisioning, etc. They used the Catholic Church as a conduit for their crimes.
The Catholic Church does not care about the children who were abused. They care about maintaining a reputation that they do not deserve. Father Gerald Fitzgerald's constant attempts to defrock abusive preists were not only ignred but criticised; he lost control of The Congregation of the Servants of the Paraclete, which he founded. Manuel D. Moreno, a bishop, sent a letter to future Pope Ratizinger asking him to defrock two local church sex offenders. The letter was ignored and it took seven years to defrock them. It took until 2012 for Monsignor William Lynn to become the first church offical to be convincted for his part in the cover-up. The most damning evidence can be found in the 1962 document Crimen sollicitationis, which gave advice on convicting paedophile, zoophile and homosexual church members. Here is Section 11:
As, assuredly, what must be mainly taken care of and complied with in handling these trials is that they be managed with maximum confidentiality and after the verdict is declared and put into effect never be mentioned again (20 February 1867 Instruction of the Holy Office, 14), each and every person, who in any way belongs to the tribunal or is given knowledge of the matter because of their office, is obliged to keep inviolate the strictest secrecy (what is commonly called "the secrecy of the Holy Office") in all things and with all persons, under pain of automatic (latae sententiae) excommunication, incurred ipso facto without need of any declaration other than the present one, and reserved to the Supreme Pontiff in person alone, excluding even the Apostolic Penitentiary.
Function A goes on to state:
… I do promise, vow and swear that I will maintain inviolate secrecy about each and every thing brought to my knowledge in the performance of my aforesaid function, excepting only what may happen to be lawfully published when this process is concluded and put into effect … and that I will never directly or indirectly, by gesture, word, writing or in any other way, and under any pretext, even that of a greater good or of a highly urgent and serious reason, do anything against this fidelity to secrecy, unless special permission or dispensation is expressly granted to me by the Supreme Pontiff.
A 2006 BBc documentry entitled Sex Crimes and the Vatican confirmed that sex abuse cases were reported to the Vatican instead of civil authorites.
Again, I am not arguing that the Catholic Church is entirely to blame. I am merely arguing that Christianity can be used as a convinent xylem to justify abhorrant acts. Take, for example, the Troubles in Northern Ireland. Both the PIRA and the UDA had extremist religious views and this influenced their abhorrant acts. In many ways, the Trobles were more religious war than anything else.
Yes there was a cover up but that was so the Catholic Church would not lose its tax exempt status therefor weakening its position in the US they tried to keep it under wraps while at the same time dealing with the guilty which is not easy or quick. And yes there was a time when the Borges infiltrated and controlled the Catholic Church but that was a very long time ago. I don't known what you where trying to get at with the quotes but whatever. And as far as northern Ireland is
concerned hears what happened the Protestants up there did not want to live in a country with a Catholic majority so when Northern Ireland was granted home rule they started to cause trouble and got the British to reestablish control the IRA then formed to kick the Brits out. The Protestants formed the orange volunteers and a civil war began motivated by political agendas that where in part motivated by religion but amount other things as well. Despite this Christianity teaches peace and Catholics and Protestants live side by side peacefully almost every where els in the world and currently there is a cease fire in Northern Ireland.
So you admit that there was a cover up? The Church didn't care about the children that were being abused. It used its position of power to cheat justice. The Catholic Church's interest was covering its own arse. If hey really were "dealing with the guilty", why were only 150 of the estimated 5,000 abusive priests in the US alone dealt with? Not only was the abuse covered up, it was used as an excuse for the Catholic Church to keep on being homophobes. The sad fact is that being in a position of religious power often allows you to pervert justice. In September 2010, even Benedict XVI was forced to admit that he Church had not been quick enough (understatement) in responding to the abuse. (http://us.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/09/ 16/uk.pope.visit/index.html?hpt=C1)
Why should the Catholic Church, or for that mater any church, be tax-exempt? One of the criteria of tax exemption is that a tax-exempt organisation must not discriminate. The Church has shown repeated sexist and homophobic discrimination. Separation of Church and state means ha the government can't control the churches AND the churches can't control the government. Here are the first words of the Bill of Rights:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
When the government gives one religion prominence over all others, the result is almost always theocracy and tyranny. Just look at some of the Muslim countries. Islam has been allowed to seep into government and discrimination and religious intolerance has ensued. The same thing could happen to Christian countries if the government receives any more theistic influences.
The fact remains that even if the Borgia's' actual religious beliefs are in dispute, they used a position of religious power to justify their crimes. Yet another example of people using religion to be above the law.
The UDA and PIRA each had religious beliefs which motivated their actions. You admit it yourself.
Yes that was a cover up but the scandal (by which I mean the actions of the priests) put the church In an awkward position on one hand they had to punish those guilty on the other hand they had to keep the crimes out of the public view. This meant high profile trials and heavy handed punishments where out of the question as it would raise suspicion that something had happened and thus invite prying eyes and the reason only 150 of the SUSPECTED 5000 where punished was because only those 150 where found guilty. And the Catholic Church is not sexist haven't you ever heard of nuns? Women are seen as equals to men in modern Christianity. And criminal infiltration of government is no new thing a number of US presidents where thought to have had connections to the mafia so I don't see why your so hung up on the Borgias. The UDA and the IRA where motivated by political ideologies that where motivated IN PART by religious beliefs.
If men and women are equal in the view of Catholocism why do we never see Nuns rise to positions of power, i've even been told by Nuns that they are not equal to their male equivalents and all positions of power are filled by men. If the Catholic Church was truely not sexist Nuns would stand the chance of being a Cardinal or Pope how often has that happened?
Well only cardinals can become the pope and only bishops can be cardinals and only priests and be bishops and priest is a male position. This is dictated by tradition and religious doctrine but nuns can lead orders of nuns which is a pretty powerful position. It's not the Catholic Church that said so it was god.
So sexism is OK as long as God has decreed it, whether it was Gods idea or not it still makes the Catholic Church sexist. Also you were saying the sexism involved in Islam is bad but that was Gods idea as well so that should be OK as well or is God only right when he's on your side.
You cannot seriously be saying the sexism in the Catholic Church is the same as Muslim sexism. In the Catholic Church we don't exicute women for being raped or driving a car or talking to a man she isn't married to or being out in public without a male escort or haveing a job or being educated. Your comparing a garden snake with a rattler yeah sure they are both snakes but only one kills people.
You've totally missed the point your saying sexism is ok in the Catholic Church because God said it was, according to Sharia holy law God told Muslims sexism was ok just their version is a bit more extreme but by your rules must be ok because God said so. I know you dont want to believe this but what you describe isn't as widespread as you think, I actually know some Muslim Women most of whom work.
Instead of just believing the stories the press try to scare us with go out meet some Muslims learn about their faith you'll find most of them are nice civilized people.
I said it was due largely to tradition. God said only men can be priests he did not say being raped warrant the fucking death penalty. So yes it's fucking different.
Again ignore arguments that dont suit you or I assume you cant answer and become abusive nice. So what your saying is as long as its tradition and God says its ok then sexism is fine that goes along with what Sharia law states about Women its harsh but its tradition and God says its ok i'd have thought you'd understand that.
Also did you see my point about the Muslim women I know most of whom are Doctors, Lawyers and Dentists, educated proffesional women who go to the Mosque and have never been threatened because the majority of modern Muslims dont believe in killing women. Remember these are women who might one day be called on to save your life, defend you in court or fix your teeth, the irony of that is beautiful.
They live in the UK a multicultural country some people still like you judge others based on colour of skin, religion and sexuality but thankfully people like that are becoming a minority.
I think their freedoms owe more to multiculturalism than Christianity, when Christianity was more of a driving force in the UK there was more Racism, Religous Intolerance and Homophobia, probably all that peace and love you keep banging on about.
I don't judge anyone based on skin color. And multiculturalism is not a good idea allowing people to segregate them selves into little ethnic bubbles encourages racism I don't know mabey it's different for you guys over in the UK but hear in the states it's caused some problems let me tell you I have meet some really racist Latinos in my time because they where born and rased here but in one of these ethnic bubbles and they where tought that they were Mexican first and that all this land was stolen from Mexico and white people were racist and an occupieing army. Yeah it's not a good thing over hear. Christianity how ever has caused no such problems here in the US the most religiously divers nation on earth.
Multiculturalism has nothing to do with segregating people although people will tend to live in their own communities but in the UK people seem to see beyond the race or religion a lot of the time and get on with each other. Its not perfect and there are still bigots but it doesn't seem as bad as it used to.
Yeah that's real great for you guys but over hear Latinos (and I'm only using them as an example because they are the most like this) not all Latinos but a lot along the border states think wanting an end to illegal imagination makes you racist and think their culture is superior to all others and that they are the native people of this continent and all white people are "illegal" and should leave. I'm not kidding I hade a guy say this to my face. Go to youtube look up Aztlan. Racist mother fuckers. However those Latinos who assimilate into American culture often have no such prejudices. Uniculturalism leads to greater unity and less hate. Less factions= less fighting.
Uniculturism is probably how I see Multiculturalism, I look along the lines of yeah we're different but we're still people no reason to hate, Uniculturalism/Multiculturalism give it a name I think we're both thinking along the same lines is a nice idea the problem is there are still too many people in the world who look for the differences between us and use that as an excuse to fuel their prejudices he Race, Religion, Sexuality, Clothes or whatever, until that is sorted out the human race will never be truly united.
Yeah the idea behind uniculturalism is everyone adopts a certain culture and we remove as many differences between different ethnisitys and races. So there would be no African American, Mexican American,ect their is only American. So since we are all just American why hate.
I know this is a very simple view but the only problem I can see is that everyone who settles in say America has to abandon all their heritage and follow the American way, fair enough but how many people living in America today understand Native American culture?
The Indians and people who study them do. But we beat them we are the dominant power here now (yeah that's right Canada and Mexico I said it) and within our borders just follow the rule when in Rome do as the Romans do. Now what you do at home what music you listen to, what you eat, and what god you worship (if any) is entirely your business but when out in public you know when in Rome ;)
So if not Native American culture what truely American way should they follow? Imposing Christianity on people makes you no better than medieval church and fascists and imposing Atheism is basically what the Communists did. Multicultaralism is the only answer but try and educate people to accept different races and beliefs etc.
By handling all cases (I won't even call them "allegations") of child molestation internally instead of calling police actually equipped to deal with the crimes, the church, Vatican and papacy adopted a dangerous holier-than-thou attitude that put the stability of innocent children as young as three in jeopardy due to their mere indifference. One of the main tenants of our Age of Reason is that any idea, no mater how much high esteem it is held in, may be criticized. The Catholic Church runs directly per contra to this; it is trying to promote the idea that its particular hypothesis is infallible and that its high-up members are somehow beyond human. A truly democratic system of government should aim to be as transparent as possible, and it is clear that the Church is fairly opaque. Anyway, the Church cannot truly be defined as being truly democratic in a strict sense of the word as a truly democratic system of government cannot discriminate against any of its members just because of who they are as doing so violates human rights and free expression. The Church has repeatedly shown bias against women and LGBT people and this seems unlikely to change even with Benedict XVI's resignation as the Pope is almost always selected from a elite group of cardinals all with the same ant-progressive views and candidates with controversial, progressive views who actually want change are usually kicked out. (http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/02/11/analysis-a-pro-gay-catholic-church-leader-dont-get-your-popes-up/) And yes, the Vatican is a government-- in fact, it is one of the biggest governments in the world as it governs the approximately 1.1 billion Catholics. As Franz Kafka said, every revolution evaporates and leaves behind only the slime of a new bureaucracy, which is why any political system that is allowed to rule the roost for too long always ends up falling into an uncomfortable status quo.
The fact is that the Catholic Church denies able women a role not out of any genuine concern about whether they can do the job but simply because they are women. that's a violation of the essential separation of church and state, textbook sexism and another reason why the Church shouldn't be tax exempt. As the Church is providing public services (schools and charities-- you said it yourself), it must abide by human rights regulation or cease to provide public services.
The Borgias are a prime example of how religious leaders are human and not infallible.
Even if you are only partly motivated by religion, you are still motivated by religion. Anyway, you can't just ignore that fact that hostility between Catholics and Protestants has existed ever since Luther's first reforms.
The fact is that often throughout history the ones making the reforms have been the ones who broke free from Church dogma. Take Galileo, or Charles Darwin. We only know that our universe is heliocentric because he disobeyed the church, and Charles Darwin only revolutionized biology and our understanding of the world in general because he didn't listen to the religious creationist propaganda.
I already explained why the church had no choice but to handle the child abuse allegations (I'll call them that) the way they did. And the church isn't sexist there are many powerful and influential nuns. As for you comments on its government fuck off I'm a US citizen my government is in DC (that is my government unfortunately). And yes the churches views on homosexuality are negative but fuck off that's none of your fucking business what my religion teaches your not catholic so what the fuck dose you bigoted ass know.
When someone has to resort to expletives and insulting crassness, it usually means that they secretly know that they are losing the battle. You don't have much more to say, do you? You're like a cheap tabloid newspaper with a huge lewd picture on the front and a tiny, insignificant article inside.
All the Catholic Church did was shield themselves from criticism. We cannot-- ironically-- allow religion to become a sacred cow. Our Age of Reason says that all ideas may be criticized, but the Church is trying to go back to a time in which religion was omnipotent and unchallengeable. This is deeply wrong; the Vatican is a government and we have allowed it to become a quasi-dictatorship. Religion promotes absolute laws and absolute laws lead to arbitrary arrest and bureaucracy. Just look at the Ten Commandments: "Thou shalt not kill". There's no accounting for anything, let alone taste. What about self-defense, or the age-old trolley problem? When religious views influence government, the implicit implication is that some views are more important than others. This cannot be implied by a democracy. You want more evidence that there was a cover-up? Take a look at this: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/27/us/27wisconsin.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Here in Britain, the Equality Act 2010 (full text as of posting this can be found here:http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15) requires equal treatment in access to employment as well as private and public services, regardless of the protected characteristics of age, disability, gender reassignment, marriage and civil partnership, race, religion or belief, SEX [emphasis mine], and sexual orientation. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equality_Act_2010). I presume that similar laws exist in the US. The Catholic Church is providing a public service and therefore must not discriminate against any members of the public it is serving as per separation of church and state. Either the Catholic Church stops providing public services or it stops discriminating. In discriminating against women on no rational basis but rather the very unchangeable fact that they are women, the Catholic Church is breaking the law. Yes, the Catholic Church is a government, but it is also an organization and cannot discriminate.
I agree that legally and politically you are governed by the POTUS, Senate, House of Representatives, Congress etc. The Catholic Church is not a government in the sense of it running a country (although it does rule Vatican City so I guess it is ruining-- I mean ruling a country). It is a theological government in the sense that it is technically ruling all Catholics; as I have shown, it is flawed and fallible like any other government.
I wouldn't be complaining if the Catholic Church had a legitimate complaint about homosexuality. However, by singling out homosexuals just for being gay, the Catholic Church are acting like a bunch of schoolyard bullies. One of the great beauties of information is that it is malleable. No piece of information remains the same-- we are always playing Chinese whispers with it, adding to it and subtracting from it. Even if the text remains the same, the interpretations differ. We have forgotten the biblical laws about shellfish and mixed fabrics; why can we not forget the biblical laws about gender and LGBT people? A law which is used by the majority to bully the minority is sick, simply sick. Besides, being gay is perfectly natural. During pregnancy, a woman's body often sees the male fetus as a foreign object and tries to femanise it. Over time, the woman becomes more adapt at this, meaning that the more brothers a man has the more likely he is to be gay. When one monozygotal (identical) twin is a gay man, the other twin is homosexual 70%+ of the time. Results like this would not occur if genes played no role (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYMjXucTFaM).
In the end, any concept that is open to interpretation can be used for bad purposes and religion is one of the vaguest concepts of all. "Belief in a God" could mean anything from Mother Teresa to the KKK and Hitler.
Enough of your ignorance. I know you hate religion because you see yourself as being above it. Your simply trying to demonize the church to justify your hate and I will hear no more of it good day.
You are making things up, not me. I hate religion because of all the people who are killed, given less rights and segregated in the name of God and because of religion. You never ask me why I hate religion but instead make up a bullshit excuse based on no evidence but just your opinion and a stereotype and then call me ignorant?
Just to clarify, you hate people whom use religion as a means of doing horrible things to people, not religion itself, correct?
Because, if you hate religion, then you must also hate the sciences, mathematics, sociology and psychology because these things too have people within their respective communities that commit horrible acts as well.
It's not just religious people whom do horrible things.
well if its the killing and restriction of rights that has you pissed off then your attacking the wrong religion you want islam or are you too scared to attack them becouse unlike Christians muslems arent peacefull Atheist cowarde.
I don't like Islam either and they are worse I agree, but you keep making up bullshit assumptions based on your imagination, I have debated against Islam but I know Christianity better as I have read the bible and just because I would rather be pissed on than shat on doesn't mean I am fine with getting pissed on, even if Islam didn't exist I would still be getting pissed on it really makes no difference.
also many Muslims are peaceful like Malcolm X, Brother Ali and many more, what it says in the Quran is extremely wrong and immoral just like the bible, the Quran has more evidence though I must say, but I definitely prefer Christianity to Islam
"I already explained why the church had no choice but to handle the child abuse allegations (I'll call them that) the way they did. And the church isn't sexist there are many powerful and influential nuns. As for you comments on its government fuck off I'm a US citizen my government is in DC (that is my government unfortunately). And yes the churches views on homosexuality are negative but fuck off that's none of your fucking business what my religion teaches your not catholic so what the fuck dose you bigoted ass know."
I love how YOU'RE the one who launched into a swear-filled rant a few comment ago, and yet I'M the one who is "ignorant". You are a joke. Seriously, this is Mitchell and Webb material. This has stopped being debate and started being a circus. Doesn't your Bible tell you to let those without sin cast the first stone?
I have done nothing but legitimately criticise your position throughout, and it is my every right to. Like it or not, rights exist in a hierarchy, and my right to free speech comes before your right" to not be offended. Scratch that, you don't have a right to not be offended. People are going to say thins that you don't agree with and you are going to have to suck it up. If you have a right to your religion then I must have a right to criticise it. Atheists are in the minority, and what use is free speech if the minority is not being protected? That is the very purpose of free speech.
I'm not demonizing the church-- unlike you, I'm just not ignoring the crimes it has committed. It is sickening that an organization that is so obviously morally defunct thinks that it has the last word on morality. It's hypocritical that the Church thinks that it has the last word on sexuality considering how many young children it has left with very sore bottoms. The fact is that the Catholic Church is an earthly organization and thus is fallible. Even if it has a spiritual goal it is made up of humans with their own agenda. Separation of church and state means that an organization which is providing a public service cannot be allowed to discriminate against any of the members of the public it is serving. LGBT people have been discriminated against in the past and they have an immutable characteristic that sets them apart from the general public and therefore they are a minority groups and by discriminating against them the Catholic Church is committing a hate crime.
You've lost the ability to argue your own point successfully? I guess I've already won. Hooray for me.
oh buddy you dont know how wrong you are. if you would say that a religion cant exsist simply becouse you think it is commiting a hate crime you are a bigot. yes the catholic church looks down on homosexuality in the bible it says a man shal not lay with a man as he dose with a women its pritty clearly stated right there in black and white homosexuality bad pretty unmisstakable. so thats just the religion and their right to say that is protected by the first ammendment wich if i remember correctly you are a fan of are you not? or is that only when it applys to you and not those you dissagree with mister endhypocracy? check mate bitch.
Now you are lying for the sake of it. I have never, at any point in our discussion, said the the Catholic Church "should not exist". I have merely suggested that it should not be tax exempt and that it should have to follow the same laws that we follow, which is perfectly reasonable seeing as the Catholic Church is made up of humans with their own agendas. Freedom of religion works both ways-- if you have the right to a religion then I have the right to criticize it. The government cannot censor my right to criticize religion as that would be government being influenced by religion which is unconstitutional.
The tragically ironic thing about the whole homophobia thing is that the Vatican and papacy are twisting the Bible's message. I don't see much "love your neighbor" in spreading homophobia and sexism and potentially making the AIDS crisis even worse. No document is static, as I said before. Without humanity to give it meaning, the Bible would be nothing more than a stack of words written by mortal men with their own biases and dogmas. Apparently the Catholic Church are willing to ignore these biblical laws:
Lev 11:5 (http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Lev.%2011.2)
But whatever is in the seas and in the rivers that does not have fins and scales among all the teeming life of the water, and among all the living creatures that are in the water, they are detestable things to you,
11 and they shall be abhorrent to you; you may not eat of their flesh, and their carcasses you shall detest.
Do not wear clothes of wool and linen woven together.
If they can ignore these biblical statements, then the only reason for them not ignoring the biblical laws on homosexuality and women is their own bigotry. Religion is an opinion like any other and holding an opinion for a long time doesn't make it fact no matter how hard you try. Your personal convictions are not going to trump scientific fact.
As for the sexism, that's a matter of employment rights and not religious rights. The women were not part of the Catholic Church at the time and therefore by preventing them from being employed the Catholic Church is infringing upon freedom of religion. The freedom not to have a religion is one of if not the most important aspect of freedom of religion.
Its ironic that you are accusing me of violating free speech to fit my own goals, and yet that's exactly what you're doing. If you support the right of the Church to have free speech, then you mush logically support my right to have free speech. And if I want to use that right to criticize the Church, what the heck?
Still talking rubbish about the troubles in Northern Ireland the protestants did not start causing trouble when Northern Ireland was granted home rule, as I have already told you Protestants and Catholics have been killing each other in Northern Ireland for hundreds of years over who's version of Christianity is best and I know you like to think the IRA are a bunch of freedom fighters but thats bollocks their just a Catholic Terrorist organisation, they are as much a band of Freedom Fighters as Al Quaeeda are.
You were taught wrong you might not bring the subject up directly but your always going on about Islam and that it supports Terrorism and challenging people to name a Christian Terrorist organisation, when they name the IRA you don't like it
No I say there are more Muslim terrorist organizations than Christian. And it's true lets count the number of Christian terrorist organizations. IRA, RIRA, CIRA, LRA, orange volunteers.
Now for Islam. Al Quida, Taliban, Hamas, Hezbollah, PLF, PIJ, ANO, ASG, IG, ETA, HUM, Hizballah, PFLF, IMU, JEM, AAMB, AAA, AQIM, JI, AAI, LIFG,AQI, IJU,GICM, HUJI-B, Al Shabaab, KH, AQAP, HUJI, TTP, Jundallah, AOI, Indian mujahideen, JAT, AAB, HQN. Ill admit I got lazy withe the acronyms but to be fair I couldn't spell half those names anyway. Well lets count shall we? Final count
Check your history books the Native Americans did not start scalping the White Man did I think it was the Dutch that introduced it to America, Indian Hunters would get paid a certain amount for each scalp. The natives just copied what was being done to them.
what history book are you reading? becouse indeins had been scalping their enimys befor the white man even got hear it was a way of showing off and gaining renown as a worrior.
what history book are you reading? becaouse the indeins had been scalping enimies since before the whit man came along it was a form of trophy takeing.
You cannot really compare the slightly outlandish practices of Spanish Christianity with the modern version. Most religious figures no longer pillage the village.
Unfortunately there are some people who still have a frightnengly blinkered and bigoted view of Christianity and are intolerant of other religions, I have been debating someone on this thread concerning Islam he actually used the words Muslims are murderous dogs and defended Catholic terrorists as defenders and keepers of the faith, all the time people have views like this Christianity will never be able to shake the bad reputation it earned through history
my battle is with the actual bible, it surely is the most dangerous book that I know of, far worse than mein Kampf. "When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property." (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
Thats still besides the point. Christianity still is problematic to society. They're trying to stop public schools from teaching evolution, becouse it contradicts what they belive. Christans are also anal about everything. If it dosn't alighn with the religon its wrong. Your still yet to justify the crusades. The hatefull loathing parts of christian society is unhealthy for any free thinking person. The only usefull part of christianity is prayr and thats a form of meditation. Theres so many more thought provoking religons that teach you how to meditate.
Christians are also anal about everything Again, generalization my point exactly. And its a pretty common generalization. What am i suppose to do? take every single different christian view and put it in a single post. I've proved my point your just picking out the smallest parts of my post to make an argument.
I could make a generalization about you, I will not. One cannot generalize a particular faith. That's like me saying that atheists always have black slicked hair and watch wayy to much Family Guy.
Thats not similar at all. I'm not talking about the people who are Christan's, I'm talking about the faith itself. And the term Christan is suppost to be a generalization of the beliefs. Thats the point of it, because theres so many sects of each religion. Your argument is invalid because its impossible to state the beliefs of every last worshiper of a faith.
if you think this is a healthy thing to believe in and teach your kids you are mentally ill "When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property." (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ." (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
"If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her."
"You should not let a sorceress live." (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
"If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst." (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
Why should it be healty? If we would talk about making sports,hormone-free products ok healthy.The christians are in themselves divided in groups,they don't agree with themselves,how can I believe them?
It depends. If you're Mother Teresa, I guess Christianity could be a good thing to believe in. If you're Adolf Hitler, then it isn't. In the end though, I would say that all monotheistic religions are naturally intolerant, as they can't really recognise that other ideas could be right. I understand your "slavery" argument and I sort of agree with it. Religion supports a closed-minded view of the world and denial of science.
It depends on what you mean by science, the church I go to doesnt avoid facts. Soem extreamists beleieve that people still cant prove were rainbows come from. There are close minded people everywere, why do you pick on monotheistic religions? Are you not close minded to atheism then?
By science, I am referring to evident postulates on how the world works that follow this method:
PURPOSE
RESEARCH
HYPOTHESIS
EXPERIMENT
ANALYSIS
CONCLUSION.
This is not to suggest that theists and theist organization cannot be scientific, or that theist scientists are consummately absent-- to say so would be a nonsense. But bupkis science is bupkis science, and religion can't expect itself to be disconnected from its outrages.
What church do you belong to? I highly doubt that your organization has never lied. We are humans, we live to deceive.
As for rainbows... wow. Do they have an IQ less than the temperature of liquid nitrogen or something?
I do not hate religion as an axiom, what I hate is religion maligning everything else and establishing a superiority complex for itself. I am a very logical person (due to the AS) and religion does not stand up to the simplest of logical inquiries. If you have magical new evidence, please present it now and I will convert with contrition instantly.
"What church do you belong to? I highly doubt that your organization has never lied. We are humans, we live to deceive."
It depends on what you mean by the church lied, do you mean the pastor lied to the church about something?
As for the rainbows people, I found a website that showed a group of Christians that differed from other Christians in the oddest areas. One even thought we should kill all homosexuals. Thats just rediculous!
It's harmful when taken to extremes. It might be harmless in moderation, but it doesn't help much. There are more constructive things to spend your time on.
I will answer but I feel it is appropriate to acknowledge theism in general.
Is theism in general an unhealthy belief? For a person? maybe/maybe not it depends. for people? No it isn't healthy because it is delusional. Theism apart from organized religion isn't usually so bad because it is not attached to such a big web of beliefs. The only belief of "freethinking" theism is the belief in god, with no other beliefs attached to this god allows god to be accomadated to reality thus resulting in a less delusional state. However it is theism that allows religion to remain present.
Is it healthy to believe in organized religion including Christianity? For a person? Again Maybe/maybe not, but since all religion have more beliefs attached to the belief in god however since religion is so vague those beliefs can be easily manipulated to a freethinking form of religious belief, but usually not in my honest opinion. For people? No because of the attached beliefs there is more delusion. Theism may or may not be unhealthy for a person, but is definitely unhealthy for people. It's like the quote from MIB "a person is smart, people are stupid" (though I'd say a person can be smart).
It seems religion On general brings a lot of confusion and stress into everyone's life. Am not too reglious, I believe in God and if you truly follow a religion and it makes you a better person so be it..After all, no one knows how we got here... Monkeys??? Nahhh
if we didn't come from monkeys why do we have tail bones and appendix's. These things humans do not need but monkeys have them and need therm, there is no reason to have these things other than the fact that we came from an ancestor of chimps
it is in fact worse to have an appendix as if it bursts we die so it makes it harder for us to survive. Also there is a loop in our windpipe and bollocks which makes it more inefficient to breathe and piss
It creates great schisms among people resulting in a escape out of this harsh society causing dependence towards things such as religion. It's a harsh unhealthy cycle.
but you still have the same evil concepts and ideology, gay marriage is still illegal in most states as is abortion, euthanasia, children still get bullied because of their beliefs, children still fear hell, people still die and kill in the name of God, gay people still commit suicide because they are told they are evil and deserve to go to hell,women die because they can't get abortions . You still read the same book that inspired genocide and mass murders.
the recent invasion of the middle east was very holy...do you remember "them" scaring the american christians into a 2 country war because of 19 muslim hijackers? remember the talk of a mosque being built on ground zero? gullible religious nuts will be the cause of ww3
actually it was a responce to a government sheltering and aiding terrorist factions. as for the mosque well yeah thats offencive lets not forget those psycos were in fact muslim its quite insencitive to put a mosque there. kind of like marking the site of a victorious battle.
you sound very gullible....i suppose you believe they killed bin laden last year and tossed his body in the sea in order to prevent his grave from becoming shrine? idiots like you are the real wmd's