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Is Earth being visited by extraterrestrials?
Millions of people have reported UFO sightings and alien abductions. Are they all just lying or mentally deranged, or is something really going on here?
I'm not sure. if we can plan to try and find out whether there are other alien beings on other planets then surely beings from other planets could be better equipped and more advanced... they might be still living on earth as our own neighbors. who can tell??? but of course that is a doubt and I might be over exaggerating over nothing.. ;););)
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I think it is illogical to assume that every witness of a UFO sighting or alien abduction is either mentally ill or telling a lie. There have been saucer sightings by large crowds that have been explained away as "mass hallucination" which I think is utterly ridiculous. I have seen saucer-shaped craft in the company of other witnesses. We all described the same thing. To suggest that we were just somehow hallucinating the exact same thing is ludicrous.
Now I have very little doubt that life exists in many places beyond earth. It's just that it seems all too probable that intelligent life forms generally annihilate themselves before the necessary advancements for interstellar travel have a chance to be made.
If there are beings who did become advanced enough, I'd bet they honor a long held traditional value of not butting into the affairs of others unwelcome.
Millions of people have reported UFO sightings and alien abductions. Are they all just lying or mentally deranged?
Pretty much.
Look, there are a whole lot of scientists out there who are keenly interested in understanding the world around us (and beyond). If there were any credible evidence of extraterrestrials they would be going apeshit.
And before somebody posts some commentary from a loony with a PhD, that's just not good enough. You can find isolated crazies who will agree with anything. You would need to demonstrate significant agreement among a significant percentage of scientists.
The great advocate of science has yet again made a statement without providing anything to back it up. Amazing.
If there were any credible evidence of extraterrestrials they would be going apeshit.
What if they wanted to keep it secret? What if it was a matter of "National Security"? The National Aeronautics and Space Administration is the most likely candidate to carry research into such matters. As a public entity, they are under the yoke of the United States Government. If that government happened upon a craft capable of FTL speeds (a separate debate), man-portable application of energy manipulation, advanced life-support systems etc., it is logical to assume that they would conceal it until the technology can be assimilated.
You can find isolated crazies who will agree with anything.
Yes jessald, yes one does.
You would need to demonstrate significant agreement among a significant percentage of scientists.
I think you mean astronomers and the like. Scientists come in all shapes and sizes.
What if they wanted to keep it secret? What if it was a matter of "National Security"?
I believe I addressed this point in an argument below. But I don't think government in general is very competent. Believing them to be capable of concealing an event as phenomenal as Aliens on Earth strikes me as a pretty big reach.
That is a pointless citation. It posits that you too are necessarily suffering from several of these biases, diminishing the value of anything you say here.
But I don't think government in general is very competent.
Agreed.
Believing them to be capable of concealing an event as phenomenal as Aliens on Earth strikes me as a pretty big reach.
It is fairly easy to hide something when every contrary testimony is regarded as delusional.
I suspect it is actually you who has mistaken bitterness for contempt. But whatever.
It posits that you too are necessarily suffering from several of these biases, diminishing the value of anything you say here.
Well if you know about them you can take counter-measures which make you a lot less likely to become ensnared.
For example, once you know about the phenomenon of anchoring you could restrain your impulse to extrapolate a global conspiracy from a few dubious eye-witness accounts.
It is fairly easy to hide something when every contrary testimony is regarded as delusional.
You could use the same reasoning to argue for the existence of any popular imagining.
And I'm still waiting for somebody to provide me with a link to this contrary testimony I'm hearing so much about.
I suspect it is actually you who has mistaken bitterness for contempt.
Your weak supposal of my worth is both real and irrelevant. It factors not at all into my likewise opinion of you.
Well if you know about them you can take counter-measures which make you a lot less likely to become ensnared.
It is logical to assume that you only researched them to validate your extant opinions, which would render the above point moot.
You could use the same reasoning to argue for the existence of any popular imagining.
And one could cite lack of evidence to cast doubt over anything. It remains the case, however, that you have entirely dismissed the theory, rather than remaining merely sceptical, as I do. Such a stance can only be taken towards theories which contradict known scientific principles, such as God (creation of energy, infinite energy value etc). There exists substantial evidence that extraterrestrial life exists (both mathematical and material), making an absolute ruling against extraterrestrial encounters unsound.
And I'm still waiting for somebody to provide me with a link to this contrary testimony I'm hearing so much about.
It is logical to assume that you only researched them to validate your extant opinions, which would render the above point moot.
I had heard about the phenomenon before, though I couldn't remember the exact term for it. More generally, I knew that the human mind is not especially rational, so it should often not be trusted. I knew that aliens are notorius for bringing out the irrational aspects of the human mind. In short your assumption is largely wrong.
Even if it were true that I was only trying to "validate my extant opinions", the fact remains that anchoring is a real thing, and it is pretty clearly at work in this debate.
It remains the case, however, that you have entirely dismissed the theory, rather than remaining merely sceptical, as I do.
When one says, "Fairies don't exist", they really mean, "It is irrational to assume that fairies exist without sufficient evidence. The odds are overwhelmingly skewed toward their non-existence." The latter is a bit of a mouthful, so we go with the former.
I hold the same position toward the existence of aliens on Earth.
I have not read of this.
I said to Enlightened, "What incident are you referring to? Please cite a credible source.", and got no response.
Your belief that all UFO and Alien abduction reports are false are just that, a belief or article of faith.
You cannot prove that all these people are either lying or mistaken or insane.
Mathematically speaking it is statistically highly unlikely that what you say is altruistic.
There is credible scientific evidence of UFOs...thousands of images are available for scrutiny and many sensible experienced scientists do take a serious interest in UFOs jessald, it's just that we don't discuss it with our funders/employers ;)
Ultimately what people like you fail to understand is that there is nothing in the laws of science to preclude the idea that we are being and have been visted by extraterrestrials.
In fact alien life is mathematically speaking abundant in the universe, according to the Drake equation there will be technologically advanced species currently existing in this galaxy.
So, for some strange reason, large groups of people spontaneously share a hallucination simultaneously? I'd like to see a murder suspect use that one as a rebuttal to multiple witness testimonies. He would be laughed out of court. But for some reason, people accept this kind of thinking when it comes to UFO sightings. Eye-witness testimony is used everyday to send criminals to jail for life, but for some reason it is worthless as evidence of anything paranormal. Scientists are never going to stake their profession on supporting anything that can't be put under a microscope. To my knowledge, no one has ever captured an alien craft, so that's not happening. Anyways, why would one assume that humans COULD capture an alien craft? If a craft were actually caught, why on earth would someone assume that the government would tell the whole world about it? A discovery like that would obviously be kept top secret. Expecting scientists to stake their careers on something that can't be physically proven is asking too much. In this case, their opinion isn't worth much. I think the most logical assumption is that at least one of the millions of reports is true. It is much easier for me to believe that we are actually being visited than it is to entertain that wild stretch of imagination it takes to think it is all just mass hallucination and lies.
Yes I have considered that possibility. I am sure there have been objects mistaken by multiple observers to be otherworldly craft. But it would not matter if a craft actually landed and aliens got out and shook hands with people, it would still be labeled a mass hallucination or hoax. Photographic evidence would not prove anything, because anyone can say a photo is faked. There will never be a way to physically prove the existence of aliens until someone finds a body. If that happened, the public would never be told. I think we have to rely on common sense here, rather than physical evidence.
So, for some strange reason, large groups of people spontaneously share a hallucination simultaneously?
It's possible. What incident are you referring to? Please cite a credible source.
Eye-witness testimony is used everyday to send criminals to jail for life, but for some reason it is worthless as evidence of anything paranormal.
Heh, interesting point. But the difference is "I saw Joe kill Bob" is not such an extraordinary claim compared to "I was probed by aliens." And as they say, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Scientists are never going to stake their profession on supporting anything that can't be put under a microscope.
There are many fields of science which are purely theoretical.
Anyways, why would one assume that humans COULD capture an alien craft?
You wouldn't necessarily need to capture one. Photos and videos could be used to build a case. Eye witness accounts could be considered, taking human fallibility into account. I'm sure one could come up with any number of scientifically sound means of detecting alien spacecraft.
A discovery like that would obviously be kept top secret.
I'm not sure that's true. Seems like something as phenomenal as an alien spacecraft would be very hard to keep under wraps.
I think the most logical assumption is that at least one of the millions of reports is true.
But the difference is "I saw Joe kill Bob" is not such an extraordinary claim compared to "I was probed by aliens." And as they say, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Until the Doppler effect was fully understood, there was little or no evidence verifying the Big Bang theory. It was correct regardless.
There are many fields of science which are purely theoretical.
Correct, but the conjecture is never taken to be the indisputable truth. Scientists do not believe, they suspect.
You wouldn't necessarily need to capture one. Photos and videos could be used to build a case.
Many photographs and videos exist. Unfortunately they are of poor quality, but it is not unreasonable to assume that beings capable of FTL travel have also mastered light manipulation.
'm sure one could come up with any number of scientifically sound means of detecting alien spacecraft.
Perhaps we have? How would we know?
I'm not sure that's true. Seems like something as phenomenal as an alien spacecraft would be very hard to keep under wraps.
Again, when you consider the very idea to be ludicrous, how much of a cover-up would be required to convince you that aliens were fictional?
If a scientist could provide compelling evidence of such a thing he would become rich and famous. The incentives are there. The aliens aren't.
Governments have the most wealth at their disposal. If any body could bribe somebody, it would be one of them.
Until the Doppler effect was fully understood, there was little or no evidence verifying the Big Bang theory. It was correct regardless.
Right, evidence allowed us to pluck the Big Bang theory from the vast sea of possible explanations and move it to the realm of legitimate theory. Until we had evidence there was no reason to accept it over possible alternatives.
Further, I don't think the Big Bang was an idea seductive enough to demand a cautiously skeptical approach.
Perhaps we have? How would we know?
Because the vast numbers of researchers who are interested in this sort of thing would be shouting their discoveries from the rooftops. Techniques would be discovered and then independently rediscovered.
Again, when you consider the very idea to be ludicrous, how much of a cover-up would be required to convince you that aliens were fictional?
I don't consider the idea ludicrous; what I consider ludicrous is the acceptance of a belief as true without adequate evidence.
Governments have the most wealth at their disposal. If any body could bribe somebody, it would be one of them.
So everyone who ever produces compelling evidence of aliens on Earth is near instantly silenced by various governments either through bribery, assassination, or some other mechanism? Even faster than scientists' ability to get word out over the internet? And no one has investigated these guys suddenly abandoning their life's work? Not likely. What seems vastly more likely is that the reason we have no conclusive evidence is that there's nothing there.
Until we had evidence there was no reason to accept it over possible alternatives.
It remains a fact, however, that it was the most popular theory among scientists before it was discovered.
Further, I don't think the Big Bang was an idea seductive enough to demand a cautiously skeptical approach.
All science should be cautious and sceptical.
Because the vast numbers of researchers who are interested in this sort of thing would be shouting their discoveries from the rooftops.
You misunderstand. First of all, the possibility of distinguishing a vessel from a piece of interplanetary debris is slim. Second, long range observation of such objects would reveal merely a bright light, or, if FTL travel is in use, nothing at all. Granted, relativity rules out FTL travel in an inertial frame, but several counter-arguments exist, which typing "FTL" into any search engine will yield.
I don't consider the idea ludicrous; what I consider ludicrous is the acceptance of a belief as true without adequate evidence.
Consider that I have not stated the claims to be true. I have simply avoided making assumptions, as you would do if you truly wished to observe scientific protocol.
So everyone who ever produces compelling evidence of aliens on Earth is near instantly silenced by various governments either through bribery, assassination, or some other mechanism?
As aforesaid, the numbers would be rather low, but as I am certain you know, there is a great deal of controversy surrounding several incidents.
And no one has investigated these guys suddenly abandoning their life's work?
Why would they have to abandon it? Faking results would be more efficient.
What seems vastly more likely is that the reason we have no conclusive evidence is that there's nothing there.
Likelihood is not an adequate basis upon which to draw a conclusion.
It remains a fact, however, that it was the most popular theory among scientists before it was verified.
Ok, but aliens on Earth is not very popular among scientists.
All science should be cautious and sceptical.
Sure, but one ought to be especially vigilant when it comes to certain areas. One should be aware of their surroundings at all times, but doubly so when crossing a busy street.
You misunderstand. First of all, the possibility of distinguishing a vessel from a piece of interplanetary debris is slim...
Huh? Why are you talking about aliens in space? This debate is about aliens on Earth.
Consider that I have not stated the claims to be true. I have simply avoided making assumptions, as you would do if you truly wished to observe scientific protocol.
So you've staked out the bold position that you can't prove a negative. Such courage!
Do you think that aliens on Earth is likely? And if not then why are we arguing?
As aforesaid, the numbers would be rather low, but as I am certain you know, there is a great deal of controversy surrounding several incidents.
I know of no such controversy. My research in this area has consisted of reading the introduction to the UFO article on Wikipedia and concluding that there is no reasonable evidence here. Just of a bunch of sci-fi nerds who "Want to Believe".
Why would they have to abandon it? Faking results would be more efficient.
Ok, it still seems unlikely that they would manage to suppress the innate desire so often found among scientists to explain the world.
Likelihood is not an adequate basis upon which to draw a conclusion.
In the real-world just about all conclusions are probabilistic and based on likelihoods.
It could be, but what are the odds? There's a very little chance that they are, and there'd be more signs then a "UFO" and a few crop fields to prove it. But then again, if they were the government wouldn't tell us.c;
