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Debate Info

63
73
Yes No
Debate Score:136
Arguments:99
Total Votes:150
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Argument Ratio

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 Yes (46)
 
 No (52)

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LizziexLaura(4278) pic



Is Taxation theft?

I have seen a lot of libertarians and some others say taxation is just theft. Is this true?

Yes

Side Score: 63
VS.

No

Side Score: 73

Theft:

a : the act of stealing; specifically : the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it

b : an unlawful taking (as by embezzlement or burglary) of property

Taxation:

a "pecuniary burden laid upon individuals or property owners to support the government [...] a payment exacted by legislative authority." It "is not a voluntary payment or donation, but an enforced contribution, exacted pursuant to legislative authority" and is "any contribution imposed by government [...] whether under the name of toll, tribute, tallage, gabel, impost, duty, custom, excise, subsidy, aid, supply, or other name."

Sources: Merriam Webster & Wiki

Taxation is legalized theft.

Side: Yes

The coercive nature of taxation is theft because it permeates the transfer of property from one entity to another without voluntary exchange.

If an private citizen uses the use of force or the threatens violence, this is unlawful transfer of property as well as the if it is the state. Theft

Side: Yes
Axmeister(4322) Disputed
1 point

If you use that definition then when a bank repossesses a house that also counts as theft, however it is not seen liked that because the homeowner sign a contract or an agreement with the bank.

Likewise the fact that someone has citizenship is a contract that they will pay tax, ultimately so that they can then obtain the benefits of the services that state provides.

Side: No
Quocalimar(6470) Disputed
1 point

Those definitions don't add to your point.

You gain nothing from theft, you gain so many things you take for granted via taxation.

Not only taxation not theft because it's legal, but because taxation is responsible for providing the populace of whatever society is taxed, with necessities and services taxation isn't thievery, even legalized.

What next, paying a maid to clean your house is theft? Paying a McDonalds employee for doing their job is theft?

If paying those people aren't theft, paying the government isn't theft.

Side: No
2 points

There is just much to gain from theft from private individuals as there is theft from taxation. It is unearned transfer of property.

The services exchanged with a maid McDonald's employee are based on voluntary exchange both of which money was invested by private individuals from previous labor while government taxation is the use of force or the threat of force with no assets of its own.

Side: Yes
2 points

Those definitions don't add to your point.

True. They dont add because they are my points.

You gain nothing from theft

What? That honestly is a dumb statement. You gain what you stole.

The rest of your argument is flawed. Taxatiom regardleds of the actions performed after is still theft. Can I take your money and disperse it among the population? Its seems to benefit people but the action is still theft.

Paying your employees is theft? That is a stupid way to present your argument. Those are forms of voluntary action. Contracts were signed. Taxation is involuntary. No contract is signed. Thats the difference. That is where your argument flaws.

Side: Yes
Atrag(5666) Disputed
1 point

The key would is 'felonious'. This is where the definition fails to meet that of taxes. In the UK the definition of theft is the 'dishonest appropriation of property belonging to other'. There is no 'dishonesty' in taxation. Its an accepted consequence of living in a civilised society. There is the option of not living in society. If you live in a forest you dont pay taxes.

Side: No
1 point

You are varying definitions so of course they will be different. In the end tax is still theft.

Side: Yes
2 points

Yes, in the same way that drone strikes against American citizens without trial is legalized murder.

People, I suppose, may be okay with these things since government is doing it, but that doesn't change what it really is...

I suppose if the administration agreed to have virgins brought to the president, people would eventually start forming excuses to justify rape when done by the government.

I question if the average populace would ever realize the flaws in their reasoning... maybe I'm not thinking of extreme enough scenarios.

Side: Yes
2 points

Of course it is. Someone, or an organization, is taking away the possessions of other people, with no form of consent, and often no opt out clause (you need to leave the country or more).

But that's not to say that taxation is a bad thing - which seems to be what many non-libertarians seem to be arguing here. The intention for an action does not change the action itself, but it can justify it.

Side: Yes
3 points

No. Taxation is our way of paying for the services we enjoy. Things like safer roads, and repairs to bridges, ambulance services, police protection, schools, national defense etc. We use more public services than we think, and paying taxes is what we contribute to afford these things. Nearly 50% of people don't pay taxes anyway and they all complain about it.

Side: No
2 points

You have to steal it from the public in order to aquire the money for any of that.

Side: Yes
elenadiamond(20) Disputed
2 points

No. The state/country bills us for services we use. For example if a doctor treats your strep throat, you pay them for diagnosing and for writing the prescription. It is not stealing. It is the price you pay for living in the country you live in. Every country has a taxation system. It is not stealing it is payment for services rendered.

Side: No
Nox0(1393) Disputed
2 points

Taxation cannot be theft. First if someone steals from you, you will not get services for it. Second you can go away from the collection zone at any time... I think that Sudan, Somalia, SAE, Kongo will not tax you at all.

Side: No
YouDontKnow(79) Disputed
1 point

You're totally right! We should adopt an optional system of taxation, so that you can chose what taxes and services you pay/receive, that way you can keep your hard earned money out of the government's clutches and drive yourself to the hospital and put out your own fires!

Side: No
Sitara(11080) Clarified
1 point

Hell hath indeed frozen over. I agreeth with thee. o.O

Side: Yes
2 points

By paying tax a government will serve you automatically. As you paid certain portion of your income, government as a protector of the people will provide some services for you. It is a kind of exchange.

Side: No

This is the problem I have with libertarians. While I'm big on personal liberties, it's taking it way too far to say that taxation is theft. If you want your country to have stuff, you have to pay your fair share. Voluntary contributions? Yeah, right.

Side: No
1 point

it is and it isn't. On one hand you are forced to be a tax payer from the day you are born because of all those nifty services the government can organize. but, sometimes we don't like what they do with the money and would have rather kept it. On the other hand, we are forced to pay taxes by law and being threatened with jail time or the repossession of material goods if payments are not met. Which brings it more to a more Robin Hood type of shakedown.

However, despite all that the way our government has been going because of this war on terror and terrorism. Governments are getting to the point where they are taking our money and then using it to make our lives more miserable and taking away freedoms for the illusion of security. 9 times out of 10 if someone wanted me dead, no police officer, army, or government would be able to stop them. Locks can be shot out with shotguns and even pistols. Windows can be smashed and fellowships corrupted. Yeah, sure they may get caught in the end and have to serve a long jail term but, I wasn't any safer with the services provided by the government. I would have been safer with a AK-47 strapped to my back at all times and a machete in case I ran out of bullets and had no other choice.

Side: No
1 point

As long as you live within a society, then you have implicitly given your consent to be taxed. You cannot possibly live with other people and expect to enjoy the same benefits without shouldering your fair share of the burden. When you are in danger you call the police, when you are injured you call for an ambulance. These essential services are provided by taxes. So no, taxation is not theft.

Side: No
1 point

In some cases, overtaxation can be akin to robbery if none of the fiscal spending is benefiting the general populace. In the US however, we enjoy relatively mild tax rates compared to our European counterparts, but considering the US is one of the greatest countries to live in in terms of civil and political rights as well as a shrinking–but still sizable–middle class, I think it's fair we are taxed a enough to maintain the general stability and infrastructure of this great nation.

Side: No
0 points

Not by definition, it literally gets away with it because theft is a crime.

I feel it's also just because it helps to pay for things that we consider to be free, without having to deal with the monetary issue when we need it.

Take for instance roads, trash pickup, police!

I can live paying to use every raod if it's just a few coins a road.

I can drive my own trash to the dump.

I don't want to imagine a fee just to have the police come out to where I live to deal with intruders.

Side: No