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I think yes! I the grand scheme of things America is awesome. However uncertain we are right now I think we can all apreciate the freedoms that we have, The history involved in gewtting those fredoms and the lives lost as well. Asmuch as we go through bad times. America always seems to bounce back and it is because of the ingenuity and hard work of Americans that it happens. That is afterall the real Awesomeness of America. It's people!
Our achievements are unmatched in the modern era, so yes we are awesome. We led the way for freedom in the world starting with our revolution, we have problem but that's never gonna end. Problems are a fact of life.
Whose achievements, yours? it seems to me that you don't mind taking credit for other peoples acheivements. The fact most americans do this, they think that because they were born into the world's most dominant powet that somehow they had somthing to with it just by being born there, and this is exactly what the real owners of the country want as it perpetuates the kind of nationalism that prevents any serious critique of their rule.
"We led the way for freedom in the world"
No, you have taken the truth and inverted it, the real truth is that every where you have gone you have systamatically prevented real democracy from taking hold, name a country that you feel the US has brought freedom to, please indulge me.
To name a few Poland and South Korea. My hometown recently recieved a sculpture from the Pomeranian region of Poland thanking our veterans for their help in liberating Poland during WWII. The worlds oldest republic with clearly defined freedoms and rights from the very begininng can be safely said to have led the way for freedom.
First of all the fact that you would cite South Korea as an example of how your country spreads freedom thorughout the world proves just how twisted your views are, that is frankly laughable, and shows just how little you know about the history of your countries involvment there. It really is hard to debate this level of ignorance, if you know anyhting of their history you'd know the US never cared about democracy in that country, they entered the korean war to prevent communism (Russia and China) from gaining a foothold, Korea was simply a battle ground where the big powers could have at one another without the need to fight directly, and thus cause WW3. The result was the hundreds of thousands killed on all sides, and the deunification fo the Korean penninsula, the brutal regime of Kim Ill Sung was instituted in the North by China, while the equally brutal dictator Syngman Rhee was put in place in the South by the US.
When his reign ended a more independent leader emerged but the US didn't like that so they sent in a coup in 1961 and the brutal dictator Park Chung-hee installed, he ruled until he was assassinated in 1979, but don't worry your freedom loving country just installed another brutal dictator Chun Doo-hwan, they even apologuised for in declassified documents i.e.
What little freedom they attained had nothing to do with the US, here is excellent book that completely dispelled the officiual line of bull you've been fedm and from the sounds of it enjoyed:
As for Poland, thats just another example of a US citizen who thinks his country single handedly won the second world war, the truth is of course the USSR won WW2, the US and Britain just helped out. If you want to convince yourself of this illusory defense of freedom by your country who am i to stand in the way of you and your neurotic delusions;-)
"Our achievements are unmatched in the modern era, "
You could say that about any great nation in history, The British Empire was unmatched in their modern era, The Roman Empire was unmatched in their modern era.
Oh, and in case you haven't noticed you're being overtaken by China, Japan and a few other countries.
"We led the way for freedom in the world starting with our revolution"
The British Empire still led the world till the 1st World War, during that time your country was rather insignificant.
Hmmm! LOL So am insignificant country. kicked the ass of the great British Empire not once but as I recall, TWICE! WOW! now that you mention it. Britain should be even more embarrassed since we were so insiginificant!
If I remember correctly. Britain was quite embarrassed and humbled when they were finally defeated by the insignificant U.S. for the second time. by a band of farmers and laborers. By a force many times smaller. It also helped seal the end of the once mighty British Empire who has spread their forces so thin fighting wars on multiple fronts!
If I remember correctly, this "band of farmers and laborers" included the empires of France and Spain who help fund them with weapons and soldiers. There was also a lot of pirates hired by the U.S to help attack British ships.
"It also helped seal the end of the once mighty British Empire who has spread their forces so thin fighting wars on multiple fronts!"
The British Empire ended after the World Wars, hundreds of years after the U.S revolted. Your revoltuion didn't "seal the end" of the British Empire, WWI did.
Yes but once we won our freedom the wealthiest and most useful part of their empire was gone. Furthermore I seem to recall a discussion about World War II where you claimed that providing arms, munitions, etc. did not in fact play a significant role that Britain did not need US help, could we not say the same? And the French were the only ones to truly help the USA Spain was a nonfactor, so you lost to a bunch of farmers and laborers plus one French man Marquis Lafayette and a single French Fleet that joined in the final battle.
"Yes but once we won our freedom the wealthiest and most useful part of their empire was gone."
Wealthiest and most useful?! HA! The US was a useless colony, notice how the empire managed to function hundreds of years after USA rebelled. Why? because we had the better colonies of India, Australia, Canad etc.
". Furthermore I seem to recall a discussion about World War II where you claimed that providing arms, munitions, etc. did not in fact play a significant role that Britain did not need US help, could we not say the same?"
No, seeing as if the French and Spanish hadn't supplied your farmers with arms you'ld be rebelling with pitchforks.
"And the French were the only ones to truly help the USA Spain was a nonfactor, "
The preventing many Royal Navy ships from reaching the U.S
"so you lost to a bunch of farmers and laborers plus one French man Marquis Lafayette and a single French Fleet that joined in the final battle."
It almost the same as your failure against Vietnam, apart from we had a bigger enemy.
The USA has never been insignificant, furthermore neither of those empires achievements were as "astronomical" (Hint Hint) as ours although I will say that the Roman Republic served as a great inspiration for our great nation. Two nations bear/bore the Aquila and two nations became superpowers. Interesting how the legacy of Rome is carried on.
"furthermore neither of those empires achievements were as "astronomical" (Hint Hint) as ours"
We discovered and colonised Australia and colonised a large amount of North America, we also explored the Artic and Antartic. U.S.A manages to land on a peice of rock and does nothing else apart from stick a flag on it. they then boast about it for ages.
"although I will say that the Roman Republic served as a great inspiration for our great nation. Two nations bear/bore the Aquila and two nations became superpowers. Interesting how the legacy of Rome is carried on."
Nice try of elevating your country by linking it to a great empire, I personally would think that Rome would have been horrified to be assaciated with your "superpower" when there are so many better ones to choose from.
The USA is a great country, but we are losing our lustre very quickly...in fact, if you look at the rise and fall of the Roman empire, the english empire and others, we will be the fastest rise and fall of them all...sucks for our kids! Thanks Obama!
Come on Andy, surely you are smart enough not blame one man for the actions of a nation. It took more than one to wreck this nation. Not a single soul is excused from contributing to our demise.
Those that voted are to blame the same as those who didn't.
Those that buy goods made in foreign countries are to blame as well.
Anyone that knows of an injustice and does nothing is blame.
"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." Einstein
It's a great place. More people emmigrate to the USA than any other country. Why? Because it gives everyone equal opportunity and rights with which one can do whatever they want with.
Yes it is compered to other countries. Here in America we have freedoms guaranteed by the constitution, not like in other countries were they are not guaranteed. Also we have the political system that works a lot better then other systems. So yes if you compare it to other countries no one cones close. The only country i can think of that's maybe 40% as good is Switzerland, the government cant take away their rights because everyone has guns there ;).
I don't think that's a very fair statement. The USA dropped two nuclear bombs on Japan towards the end of World War Two and innocent people are still suffering from the radiation poisoning in that area. How on Earth does that make you awesome? I think that the reason other countries aren't like America is because they are not selfishly stupid. No other countries are worse than doing that!
"We have the political system that works a lot better than other systems"
A lot of countries have realised that democracy was a good idea so that doesn't make America any better "compared to other countries"
The political system is a good idea but America had little to do with the founding of it. No, it was founded long ago in Ancient Greece.
"So yes if you compare it to other countries no one cones close"
You should be banned from this site and imprisoned for the rest of your life! Compared to other countries, what has America actually supplied to the world besides bombs, deaths, stupidity? Have a look at the link below to see what else America brings to the world! I cannot believe you would even say that nobody comes close!
What if I told you that having TEA has nothing to do with being awesome that is merely a preference for one beverage over another, and our list of things seems to be quite larger than your one item...tea.
Nice one. Having a group of people that kill other people, and have the audacity to do it in the name of representing a country is ridiculous. Why would you be proud of that?
"... fast food"
Again, I do not think that you should be proud for causing obesity all across the globe. There is a reason America has the largest rate for obesity and it is nothing to be proud of.
I am a proud patriot. But i do know america is a little fucked up. Take texas for example they kill people like it's the dark ages, that is the only thing that concerns me.
You bombed Japan with two nuclear missiles, in a war that wasted 50 million lives, people are still suffering from those consequences today. I don't think, in this example, that you are actually fighting for a good cause, here.
If you fight for others then why did you have the American civil war? That is not just fighting for yourself, that is fighting against yourself.
"Expect nothing in return"
Why would you expect things in return after killing millions of people in wars, ruining the financial stock market with loaning money you didn't have, and wasting even more lives through bad education.
"This is an example of a great nation"
Actually, this is an example of an exceedingly idiot nation. How are any of the things that I have listed above intelligent in any way? Creating things such as fast-food do not make you a great nation - they make you an obese nation.
I was born in the united kingdom and I love the united states. I have officaly lived here for 8 years. Yes the goverment is corrupt but so is every govermnet. yes, they go into silly wars, but they have the best traing to help there men survive threw it. they are a strong goverment and they are what we need in this world. And Hoorah for the marines dieng for the us. and hooah for the soldiers dieing for the us
In general, America is great because it has accumulated the greatest amount of wealth due to freedom and capitalism. America is on the decline. Until America adopts laissez faire as has Hong Kong, America will continue to decline.
" America is great because it has accumulated the greatest amount of wealth due to freedom and capitalism"
This is perfect example of absolute grade A bullshit, this kind of total bullshit shit can be used as a bullshit barameter to benchmark other forms of bullshit, this truly is the plantinum, gold and sivler standard for bullshit all rolled into one.
Well from what ive read of your own arguments it seems to me that you can't differentiate nationalism from realism. But if you think im full of crap please exaplin why?
Well the thing is if believed it was true i wouldn't have labelled it bullshit, american isn't rich because its free and capitalist, its rich because its effectively exploited the world through its domination of it. Capitalism is simply the system that facilitated this, and freedom is simply the official propaganda bedtime story that children are fed to indoctrinate them so they'll grow to think like you do.
I cannot help but wonder about the conditions on this site when an individual makes an absolutely needless comment insisting - but not substantiating the claim - that a previous comment is "the plantinum, gold and sivler standard for bullshit all rolled into one."
"I cannot help but wonder about the conditions on this site "
Can you not? Well now i must humbly beg your forgiveness my good sir, i am sorry for my brash outburst, and trite lanuage, i am also deeply regretful my supposition, and the prose in which it was presented does not accord with your sense of moral decency. Heres an idea, go to the bathroom and try to shit out that platinum, gold and silver rod thats lodged in your colon, i know, i know, its been there all your life but i feel it would do you a world of good, just keep pushing and let peristalsis do the rest.
individual makes an absolutely needless comment insisting "
The comment was not needless.
"but not substantiating the claim"
Normally i would but im very very busy right now, and i felt outlandish ridicule would be fit for purpose.
The comment lacked substance. The whole idea behind debating is to give meaningful arguments that may sway your competitor, rather than curse repetitively your competitor. Doing so may give you praise from those who agree with your position, but it does nothing to convince the other side of their alleged error.
Normally i would but im very very busy right now, and i felt outlandish ridicule would be fit for purpose.
If you are too busy to make an actual argument, then why bother to write anything at all?
"The comment lacked substance. The whole idea behind debating is to give meaningful arguments that may sway your competitor"
I know but when you've been on this debat site enough eventually you will resort to quick responses that lack substance, im not saying i do all the time only sometimes, and you will as well when you see something you diagress with but dion't have the time to properly dispute.
"I'll work extra hard to make sure I don't do so in future."
Look this site is a debate site first and froemost but you'll begin to realise the more debates you get involved in, and more people you debate with that theres also a social networking element to it.
I was recently doing some research on Hong Kong and have realized how completely unnecessary government regulation is, I have always believed in small government but my belief in this has grown greatly after looking further in depth to this issue.
"America is great because it has accumulated the greatest amount of wealth due to freedom and capitalism."
And the fact that you didn't get involved in both wars until halfway through, leaving your country one of the only superpowers in the world to survive the world wars unscathed(excluding Pearl Harbour).
"Until America adopts laissez faire as has Hong Kong, America will continue to decline."
According to your own version of history, "Laissez Faire" got you into the Great Depression of the 1920's.
"I think 1930's would be more accurate and if I recall correctly when the USA crashed the rest of the world went too. Hardly seems insignificant."
I think you'll find that during that time USA was the only power with a stable economy (as all the superpowers has spent a large amount fighting WWI properly).
Thus when the US crashed in 1930 the fragile economies of the superpowers shook but didn't suffer as badly.
1. The World Wars, in general, were unnecessary. While the second one eventually had to be fought, it was only because of the first, which was out of bitterness and bullshit. America got involved in the first when it shouldn't have, and it got involved with the second after they were attacked.
2. The Federal Reserve had much to do with the Great Depression. Not "Laissez Faire" Capitalism. Government involvement, historically speaking, greatly contributes to recessions and depressions.
"1. The World Wars, in general, were unnecessary. While the second one eventually had to be fought, it was only because of the first, which was out of bitterness and bullshit. America got involved in the first when it shouldn't have, and it got involved with the second after they were attacked."
Equally, all the other superpowers could have just not got involved when an Austrian prince was shot, but they valued alliances more than USA did.
And as you said before WWII was just an outcome of the first world war, which your President was supposed to prevent using his League of Nations.
"2. The Federal Reserve had much to do with the Great Depression. Not "Laissez Faire" Capitalism. Government involvement, historically speaking, greatly contributes to recessions and depressions."
Your version of history teaches that Hoover got them into the Depression and Roosevelt got them out by not using the "Laissez Faire" method Hoover used.
According to your own version of history, "Laissez Faire" got you into the Great Depression of the 1920's.
I will agree to a large extent that the great depression could have been averted or reduced with some pretty reasonable regulations. Stubborn adherence to "no government interference" ideology, I believe, caused some undue harm.
"people can elect their president, unlike miserable countries like china/ north korea"
You are implying that China/Korea are miserable countries. You are a misinformed loon who needs to bash himself in the face a couple o' times before going back to watching Fox News
"and its rich, despite the financial tsunami lol, still richer than many other countries"
You are a sac of shit. Are you making light of the horrible event that happened in Japan? If you are I hope, for your sake, that you don't make a comment like that in front of me in real life. Behind you computerbox you feel safe, but enter the real world and you'll find that reality a bitch. I'm not that big and scary, but I'm a Weeaboo. So fuck with Japan and your fucking with me.
China is not quite "Miserable" North Korea however is. One of the crappiest nations in the world. Its brother South Korea who by the way would not exist without the USA...(okay Britain helped which further supports my idea that a Britain USA alliance is unstoppable) is prosperous wealthy and free. The legacy of America evidenced for all to see.
"Its brother South Korea who by the way would not exist without the USA."
Do you know anything about those countries? You're actually right but not in the way that you think.What is historically accurate is the following:
The coutnry would never have been unified had it not been from the interference of the superpowers ( US and Russia ) who were trying to gain a strategic foothold in the far east with little thought for the well bing of the Koreans."
There thats the truth of it, you propped up two brutal dictators in South Korea, and Russia & China did likewise in the North, its just the Norths dictators stuck (probably cause China was next door)whereas yours didn't.
Learn some history.
"okay Britain helped which further supports my idea that a Britain USA alliance is unstoppable"
The old impreialist and the new imperialists cutting the world up as they see fit and causing incalculable suffering along the way, its like a marriage made in hell. If you're going to support this barbarism at least have the decency to call it what it is, you wouldn't like it if i came to your house burned it down, killed your family and then tried to convince you i was doing you a favour, would you?
The problem with you is that you've completely bought into the official propaganda, and thus you actually beleive your own bullshit, as do most of the people in the US, the excercises in double think that go on at the highest levels are truly astounding.
"The coutnry would never have been unified had it not been from the interference of the superpowers ( US and Russia ) who were trying to gain a strategic foothold in the far east with little thought for the well bing of the Koreans."
So is this a quote from you or someone else? If it is someone else reference it, if not lose the quotations. Either way, your implications have no basis in historical fact, it has a basis in yours and other peoples biased opinions.
"The old impreialist and the new imperialists cutting the world up as they see fit and causing incalculable suffering along the way, its like a marriage made in hell."
So essentially you are saying that America and Britain run around to people's houses burning them down and as they are fleeing tell them it is a favor? I'll call BS. I'm also confused as to what propagandized me. What is this propaganda. And the whole America/British unstoppable thing was simply proof of the point that we are the greatest countries in the world. Riddle me this, for every major disaster in this world, who is the first and often the only to help? And for some reason, America is the only country that is expected to help. I wonder why... Makes me wonder where you are from.
What? You actually think id try to take credit for someone else quote. Im sorry i was correcting your quote, i should have made that clearer i.e.
You said:"North Korea however is. One of the crappiest nations in the world. Its brother South Korea who by the way would not exist without the USA"
My Correction: "The coutnry would have been unified had it not been from the interference of the superpowers ( US and Russia ) who were trying to gain a strategic foothold in the far east with little thought for the well bing of the Koreans."
" Either way, your implications have no basis in historical fact"
Im sorry but its a bit hypocritical to make statements like"South Korea who by the way would not exist without the USA"
without presenting shred of evidence, and then criticise another person for disputing it without any evidence
"it has a basis in yours and other peoples biased opinions"
No actually thats not quite true, you seem to be suffering from a condition called what i beleive is true as it is based on fact, if other people disagree its false as they base it only on their own inherent bias"
So lets look at the facts, the US cut Korea in two, and proppoed up a brutal dictator, and when he was forced out propped up another brutal dictator. The truth of Us involvement and the pain it caused to the Korean people is a best kept secret in the west.
Heres a peer reviewd paper on the truth of US involvment in Korea udring the cold war era:
"So essentially you are saying that America and Britain run around to people's houses burning them down and as they are fleeing tell them it is a favor?"
Ya that about sums it up nicely.
"I'll call BS!"
Well if you disagree then please try to prove it wrong.
"What is this propaganda."
Is this a trick question or do you really need me to tell you what propaganda is?
"And the whole America/British unstoppable thing was simply proof of the point that we are the greatest countries in the world"
What, how does that prove anything , the USSR were pretty unstoppable at one time but i definitely would not have called them the greatest country in the world, especailly when stalin was setting up his gulags and committing genocide. Germany under Hitler was also fairly unstoppable, the were the most technologially advanced nation in the world at the time and had a vastly superior army to any other, if they weren't so reckless in their pursuit of complete and total world domination they would be super power now not the US, but i think we can both agree there was nothing reat about the Nazis.
"Riddle me this, for every major disaster in this world, who is the first and often the only to help?"
Riddle-de-de-riddle-de-do
Well lets take an example, i think Haiti is relevant, don't you? They suffered a massive earth quake recently and couldn't deal with it cause of their poverty and porr infrastructure, and sure the US came and helped, but the real question is how they did get porr in the first place? Could that have anything to do with the US, do you know anything about US foriegn polcy in Haiti, of course you don't
The truth is most of poverty in the world is caused by the west, not alleviated by it, and the US is as usual the worst perpetrator in this regard, you see when it boils down to it the developed world could not exist as it currently does without a third world to exploit, you can take whatever example you like there are very fw that cannot be trcaed back to western imperialism, or today its more about the involment of multi-national corporations.
We extract whatever resources they have that are valuable, then we use they land and environement as a vast open air dumping ground when we spit out our cultural garbage, our fucked up system of consumer capitalismn is founded on robbery and imperialism disguised as economics and trade. Makes me ashamed to be part of the human race.
"And for some reason, America is the only country that is expected to help. I wonder why... Makes me wonder where you are from."
I don't blame you for holding the views you do, beleive it or not but in a past life i thought just like you did, the problem is i have travlled around the world, and that led me to becoming deeply sceptical about the truths that most us aren't supposed to question, since then i have become very cynical because i begun to see thorugh the bullshit, and its everywhere, bullshit is everywhere.
"Well if were so evil go live in Africa so I can exploit you."
Im sorry is that supposed to make sense?
As for Africa i think China is rapdily taking over from the US on the whole African continent expliotation but don't worry you've already done, adn continue to do severe damage to that impoverished place;-)
"Well if were so evil go live in Africa so I can exploit you."
Im sorry is that supposed to make sense?
As for Africa i think China is rapdily taking over from the US on the whole African continent expliotation front, but don't worry you've already done, and continue to do severe crippling damage to that incredibly impoverished place;-)
I am truly flummoxed at your brash attempts to insolently degrade the image of the United States, especially without proper knowledge of history. Calling the USSR a country is just one example of your blatant disregard of history( the USSR stands for Union of Soviet Socialist Republic). Now to hopefully again alleviate your stupidity, the USSR as you would say, was reckless with their military. They engaged in a war with the U.S., a war to produce the greatest military equipment. The problem with this plan is obvious, that it is clear that they could not contemplate economic intelligence. America had a vastly supieriour economy compared to the soviets, allowing them to produce equipment at a pace that the soviets could not ectype, helping expostulate the greatness of America.
Now your views on the Korean war show your minute knowledge of the war, Korea was already split in two, the ideals of each side were established before the fighting. The republic of Korea, known also as South Korea , shared ideals with Americans. On the other side, you have Democratic People's Republic of Korea,supported by China and the USSR. This difference started after WW2, when the soviets got the north and Americans the South. This lead to the North setting up a communist government and the South, more American. So this shows ur already wrong, the Americans did not set up a tyrant leader like you so nievly suggested, this was already in place thanks to the soviets. The North invaded the South, but America protects them, and allows them to keep their freedom. The South now acts as if it is forever in debt to America, and one of her strongest allies. But I need not say that, South Korea's modern day actions dispute your argument, and help show ur idonious discription, an uninformed jack ass.
"I am truly flummoxed at your brash attempts to insolently degrade the image of the United States, especially without proper knowledge of history."
There's only one person here who doesn't have a proper knowledge of history, and it isn;t me.
"Calling the USSR a country is just one example of your blatant disregard of history"
I know that technically speaking the USSR wasn't a country, a simple technical error in speech like that hardly bolsters the validity of your ridiculous accusation.
"Now to hopefully again alleviate your stupidity,"
Hey, why not try disupting my actual argument instead of throwing around baseless insults that only serve to highlight your own deficencies, just a thought.
"They engaged in a war with the U.S., a war to produce the greatest military equipment. The problem with this plan is obvious, that it is clear that they could not contemplate economic intelligence. America had a vastly supieriour economy compared to the soviets, allowing them to produce equipment at a pace that the soviets could not ectype, helping expostulate the greatness of America."
Wow, that sounds like a nice bed time story,however, it completely neglects historical fact, firslty, before the Bolshevik revolution took place Russia was an extremely impoverished society, but people always ask the stupid question how did the USSR compare with Europe or the US, the answer is badly, obviously it compared badly, back in 1900 it was a third world country, there was no industrial revolution in Russia but I'm not surprised you don't know that, you clearly don't know much.
So, it's simply not a fair comparison, these economies haven't been comparable for hundreds of years. I mean, historically Eastern Europe had always been a third world service for the West. A fair comparison would be to compare latin america with Russia prior to the implementation of the Soviet development model as they were both extremely impoverished and had virtually no infrastructure, and had not modernised, unlike Europe or the US at the time, the fact is the Soviet development model was extremely successful, and this is apparent when it is compared against a country that was in a similar economic situation to itself prior to it's implemnetation. The reality in Russia is that during a succession of five-year plans, the USSR was transformed from a primitive, largely agricultural backwater, into a superpower, second only to the United States in its international political influence, military capability and industrial strength.
Or even just compare Russia today to what it used to be, the same could be said of China, the Soviet development model allowed them to modernise quickly, but don't take my word for it, the world bank released a report in 1990 (a time when Russia was doing quite badly actually after the fall of the USSR) i.e.
"The Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China have until recently been among the most prominent examples of relatively successful countries that deliberately turned away from the global economy. But their vast size made inward-looking development more feasible than it would be for most countries, and even they eventually decided to shift policies and take a more active part in the global economy"
I think we can both agree the world bank is a pretty impartial source, in fact, if anything it is pro-western, which is exactly why they used the language: "their vast size made inward-looking development more feasible", instead of using the truth which was: "their "vast size" made it possible for [the Soviet Union and China] to withstand the refusal of the West to allow them to takepart in the global economy on terms other than traditional subordination"
Now, they acknowledged the success of the soviet development model, and you can be sure america did as well, you why, because its true, and it was a serious worry to the US at the time of the cold war,i n fact, it was one of the principal reasons for the cold war i.e. fear that other impoverished countries would leave the global economy and follow the Soviet model which would allow them to gain economic independence, and thus extricate themselvse from Western exploitation. But the Soviet economy stagnated largely due to internal contradictions, it finally began to decline and then went into free fall in the 80s, which led to the break up of the USSR, this never happened to China who started trading int he free market, and look at them now.
"Now your views on the Korean war show your minute knowledge of the war, Korea was already split in two, the ideals of each side were established before the fighting. "
What are you talking about, the country was broken up due to American, Chinese, and Russian intervention, how do you swallow this garbage, do you think all the Koreans just woke one day and said, shit i really hate having a unified coutnry, I think we should separate the North and South. America was largely responsible but the USSR and China played their part as well.
"On the other side, you have Democratic People's Republic of Korea,supported by China and the USSR. This difference started after WW2, when the soviets got the north and Americans the South. This lead to the North setting up a communist government and the South, more American So this shows ur already wrong"
How on earth does it do that, I'm not being facetious, you seem to think you'be proven something here but I really can't see it.
"the Americans did not set up a tyrant leader like you so nievly suggested, this was already in place thanks to the soviets."
No, america setup a puppet tyrant dictator just like it does all over the world, I provided the link, why not try educating yourself before you spout factless nationalistic drivvle: This is a peer reviewed paper from the Lethbridge Undergraduate Research Journal, so I'd very much like to see try to refute it.
"But I need not say that, South Korea's modern day actions dispute your argument,"
Hey, why not try to back up a single stupid thing you've say with some evidence, it seems like all you can do is spout your ideological bullshit, but i haven't seen once once of proof for anything you've said.
"help show ur idonious discription, an uninformed jack ass."
This argument is incredibly weak and your continued hurling of insults only show to be the desprectful person your are, BTW the current state of South Korea proves nothing, simple as.
Look, you're not being fair about North Korea. Even if its leader is a mistake, the people who live there don't have any blame. How would you feel if someone said "America butts in where they don't belong. Why don't they mind their own business"? I'm not saying i think America actually does that, but you should learn about other countries before you say something rash. Do you know the grandson of Kim Jung Il was prejudiced because of his heritage? He was refused from a high school, even though he had all the right to go there. And his father was the son who escaped from North Korea in order to escape from Kim Jung Il. Also, America isn't everything in the world. Besides, South Korea lost about all the land they won in the Korean war because the American army didn't care for them much. Did you know American soldiers killed two South Korean girls when they were in South Korea with their tank, and didn't even care? That proves that USA is not totally awesome. In fact, some Americans should think about what they did in the past to other countries. Luckily, America now is much better, thanks to Mr. President.
I think some people are conflating awesome with perfect. The US is certainly far from perfect, but the original idea and implementation of our country based on the consent of the governed, it's ability to reform over time and expand freedoms for minorities, educate nearly 100% of its people, provide a basic saftey net for the poor and disabled, aid other countries, our justice system - none of which are perfect, but many became models that the rest of the world adopted/adapted.
I don't think our awesomeness should be largely based on our wealth, but I do think it is worth mentioning the opportunity for people to become wealthy, protections for patents, one of the most stable economies of the world, national recognition of (most) contracts.
America is a country that inspires awe and intices immigrants from all over the world. We should always remember that we are not perfect, that humility is a virture, that someone who says America can be improved is not unpatriotic, etc., but I'm often awed by the mental might and military dedication that created and sustains America.
There is room for improvement in every individual, in every city, and in every country, the peace and prosperity produced by the USA has scarce been matched from the Roman Republic and on.
Here are only a small number of reason why America is not awesome...in fact, quite the opposite:
Current American debt crisis.
Hypocritical (For example; Placing nukes in a location that is directly aimed at Russia during the cold war, and then complaining and getting all upset when Russia does the same thing).
George W. Bush.
Funding the Afghanistan people with weapons then treat them like garbage and complain when they start launching terrorist attacks.
This isn't to say any other country is without it's flaws, I don't think that ANY country is awesome - but of the Western country's America is definitely the least awesome.
Hypocritical? That my friend is simply smart. It is things like that which allow a nation to become a superpower, by outcompeting and outmatching their enemies. If that entails pointing a missile at them and stopping them from doing the same then i say great policy.
No my friend its not, do you have any idea how wev came to a full scake nuclear war?
And the probability of a repeat is increasing day by day with the US's planned "defense shield" (notice the invertged commas) in Russia backyard.
The US is nation founded on hypocrisy, they say they stand for freedom and domocracy but their actions spread the opposite.
"by outcompeting and outmatching their enemies."
You didn't outcompete or outmatch the USSR, they were superior to you in many ways but their society imploded from the inside.
"If that entails pointing a missile at them and stopping them from doing the same then i say great policy"
You totally, lets piont missiles and people and see how they like it, no bad can come of that, we've got the biggeset dicks in the world, woooooooooooh!!!!!!!!!!USA USA USA USA USA USA!!!!!!!!!!!
There are lots of reasons for the fall of the USSR, but the economic reason is because the economy was not as strong as that of America, allowing America to spend money on the military that they could not match, eventually causing them to collapse.
From your remarks on America, I find it that your views are idoniously fit against democracy, because the American system is the envy of that of the worlds populace, and not yet ectyped. This is not to say it is not without flaws, it just means there is no other place I would rather be.
Firstly I hate having to respond to debates that ended almost half a year ago, please try to object to some of my more current arguments if you can, I can barely remember participating in this debate.
"There are lots of reasons for the fall of the USSR"
Yes, I know the fall of a superpower is a complex matter, I gave what I beleive to be the primary reason i.e. the society as it existed imploded under the weight of its own inherent contradictions, but the USSR didn't have to fall in the way that it did, i've done some of study on this, had it not been for Gorbachev's overly excessive reforms the USSR could easily have been maintained as something that looked more like the European Union today.
"but the economic reason is because the economy was not as strong as that of America"
You clearly haven't a clue what you are you talking about, the Soviet economy was compltely independent from the US (or world) economy, the above point is simply meaningless.
"allowing America to spend money on the military that they could not match, eventually causing them to collapse."
Wow, I'm not even going to dignify the above comment with a response, that fact that you can hold such an ahistorical view speaks volumes of you.
"From your remarks on America, I find it that your views are idoniously fit against democracy,"
You have no basis to make such a claim.
"because the American system is the envy of that of the worlds populace"
Evidence?
"it just means there is no other place I would rather be."
I am truly perplexed at your ability to disreguard the Unites States. Now I hope you know that the cold war was two countrys spending excessive amounts of money on their respective militarys, and when Regan took office, he took the spending to another level. Now I know that the USSR was already colapsing at this point, but he accelerated it because they still tried to match our level of defense spending. They did not have the finances were not at level that could sustain this, so the rest of the country began to deteriorate. If you are going to remain ignorant to the fact that their defense spending was PART of the cause for their downfall, then you truly have no grasp on the matter.
The Stalin takeover of Russia in 1924, and the sequential industrialzation that followed symbolized the ending of peoples rights.
Korea was separated because of WW2 war repartions, not because of intervention. After the fall of Japan, the soviets got the North and Americas the South.
I will continue this debate tomorrow, for I am tired of typing on this tiny pda
America is full of hypocrisy, another fine example is the fact that they complained about Stalin not allowing free elections, and then fixing and preventing elections in Vietnam.
The minimum length for an argument is 50 characters. The purpose of this restriction is to cut down on the amount of dumb jokes, so we can keep the quality of debate and discourse as high as possible.
No. Just no. I find it confusing that someone would think America is an awesome place. You've confused me, good work. The most amazing thing is that it's a country that manages to keep a portion of the population born with silver spoons, and the rest born to serve them. Most countries are uniformly poor or wealthy. Congrats, America.
Hmmm well considering the terrible, non compassionate believes America has, no. The Government would kill fifty innocent people if it meant a one percent increase on taxes. I betcha :D
Not anymore. The idea of the usa is awesome in that the "american dream" was once attainable. this is no longer the case. with the government being bought and paid for by corporate vultures, forcing us to further the american empire by invading other countries and keeping us in conflict after conflict, by not following other progressive nations not only in healthcare reform but also failing to follow ecological advances and nuclear disarmament, and with the u.s. claiming exemption from the rest of the world when it comes to being held accountable for crimes worldwide, ...all of this and more leads me to say that the u.s. is a capitalist sinkhole that will continue to use and abuse any person or resource it wants until at last there is nothing left.
its a steaming pile of horse shit on another note; Grab some spikey poles arrange them in a specific order and set who ever reads this on them, after being paralyzed. Otherwise, the spikes would just be a big fat waste of time. After making sure the.. ahem… you are firmly stuck onto the spikes (just enough to make it uncomfortable) it’s time for the magical art of… wait for it… simple machines! A pulley system would work. Tie any heavy object to the end of the rope, hang it over a rail, drop it and SQUISH goes YOUR head.
We're not as amazing as we think we are......I'm not saying this country and it's accomplishments aren't amazing, but they way it's run and the country we are BECOMING suck, mainly in reference to our military. Sure, we have the greatest one in the world, but what gives us the right to shove it down the throat of every other country in the world? What are we gonna do in the situation of another world war...how are we gonna defend ourselves against the ENTIRE world, because in all truth we have no real allies. We've pissed enough people off by getting involved with situations that had nothing to do with us, that NO ONE would complain if we were gone. We're power hungry, we're racist has hell, how are we awesome?
I will whole heartledly say that the US is a great place on the world to live. People absolutely enjoy more freedoms and privilege compared to many other nations. That being said I would never say the US was awesome. The US invades many other countries saying that we are "helping" when really they don't want us there. This costs us so much money we have a huge deficit. Or nation is politically divided and everything happens so slowly. We have some of the worst pollution rates of the world and were more interested in making money than stopping that. Our education system compared to other countries is way behind. We don't really contribute much to the rest of the world, and in the process were hurting ourselves and the planet.
NO. OF COURSE NOT. It's the capitalist of capitalists. The obesity rate of the country is the highest out of every country in the world. Not to mention the ignorance level there is enough to make my brain melt. They think we Canadians live in igloos after all.
No, mainly because I am Canadian, and we have more freedoms and a better government, plus we are polite to one another, the opposite of the United States.
USA with all my respect to Americans has not history , Freemasons who built this country by bogus and fraudulent monetary system . The American government is monstrous they destroyed many countries and killed many civilians during wars .
While the ideals that the USA was formed on were certainly noble, even awesome in ways, and the ideas behind the formation of our early government were as well...
In it's current form, the USA is a joke. While it's not quite as bad as the picture the media likes to paint, it's still in a pretty bad way. Our government has become bloated beyond functionality; it's no longer a question of whether the right hand knows what the left hand is doing- the left index finger has no clue what the left thumb is doing would be a more accurate description.
And the problem is, with the government being the size it is now, is that (and i don't mean to anthropomorphize an organization) it has essentially developed a 'will' of its own. Not like a hive mind, or someone pulling the reins, but a general trend. We've seen it repeatedly- it doesn't matter who we elect president, who we elect to congress, etc; we get the same thing, over and over. Voting out an incumbent in favor of someone new is essentially adding a few points of dissent to the governments collective will, while any new candidate is going to assent to other aspects of it.
By the work of our ancestors in the past few generations- and yes, our own work even in the current generation- we've turned a representative democracy into a monster. The collective will, the inertia of the direction our government is going is such that affecting any kind of major, positive change would be nearly impossible even were we overall an enlightened people- which we aren't.
The system of checks and balances has failed us. Were it not such a logistical nightmare due to my family, I would already have left the US. I'm still trying to work towards that despite the problems involved. Now, I don't have a problem with the American people (or at least not one that I don't have with people in general). I don't believe, from my travels, that the average American is less intelligent than the average individual in any other nation I've seen (which, admittedly, is limited to Canada, Mexico, Britain and France), but rather our least intelligent individuals are far louder and visible than their compatriots in other nations. No, the issue is one of lack of forethought as well as lack of hindsight. My old ancestors, my still living ancestors, and myself have all contributed in some way to this mess. The issue is the government, and WE created this monster.
I can't even ask 'where did we go wrong?' because the information is all there. I would once ask 'how can we fix this?' when I was younger. But the time for that is past- I'm a father, and I have my family to think of. Stirring the pot, trying to affect change, while having a potential payoff for my family is far too risky. The only solution I can see for my loved ones is to scrape the funds together necessary, pull up roots, and start a new life elsewhere.
To be honest, I think you don't really understand my logic is all.
My logic on this issue is thus: Murder = Bad. Nurture = Good.
So, as long as any nation murders people, it will not be awesome. Maybe some of the people and culture will be awesome, but not the nation. A nation is a government, not a culture, nor a certain number of people. A nation can be defined by the culture within it, but it is not a nation without a government.
People are awesome. Not their nations. The United States is not the exception to this rule just because it's powerful.
I am not completely sure, that I've got your position, but in general you are right. Such global and complicated terms as "nation" or even "ethnicity" cannot be defined with such adjectives as "awesome" or "not very(!)". The US policy is dictated by its status of superpower. Intrigue, murder, hypocrisy, lies, betrayal - it is not full list of actions. Could that be justified? If you like your lifestyle: your Oscars, Disneylands, Brad Pitts etc, the answer is - yes.
Considering I am one of those people who is always dissatisfied with things I see in politics and on the news and in foreign policy, it's not very justified. What makes me happy with my life were my own choices, not what this nation has done. I could live in Europe or Canada for all I care and I won't feel any different about the country.
I am not completely sure, that I've got your position, but in general you are right. Such global and complicated terms as "nation" or even "ethnicity" cannot be defined with such adjectives as "awesome" or "not very(!)". The US policy is dictated by its status of superpower. Intrigue, murder, hypocrisy, lies, betrayal - it is not full list of actions. Could that be justified? If you like your lifestyle: your Oscars, Disneylands, Brad Pitts etc, the answer is - yes.
I fail to see how that makes us not awesome, awesomeness is relative to other nations, for that reason you saying that others have killed along with us completely voids your argument.
I wouldn't say we're awesome. We give the appearance of being this amazing country and we are better than some others but we have a lot of problems. Our economy for one or the fact that we seem to always want to place ourselves in the center of all problems/war. Definitely not "awesome", but still it's not completely terrible.
The usa is a good country but not the best, I live in it, and we have rights but in a lot of cases they can be used against us. Our government can do what ever thay want to us and with us without telling others, wich they have. Namely Bill Clinton... I'm pretty sure you can get info on this at some other sites and so on. I still love my country but it could use some improvment
1. Get rid of OBAMA!!!
2. Get a republican in office to bring our country to it's best, not just any republican either, one like Ronald Regan.
