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Is atheism declining?
A somewhat prominent devout theist, with his own internet radioshow, has asserted research indicates that atheism is on the decline RELATIVE to theism. Non-theistic sources seem to indicate otherwise. So, which is it?
I didn't check the statistics but the amount of atheists should augment with the decline of extreme poverty. Theism comes with the weak minded and desperate.
Your argument makes you seem weak minded. You didn't check the statistics? And even if statistics did support your hypothesis I would argue that it has less to do with the decline of extreme poverty and more with the rise of the information age. But thank you for contributing a worthless comment that does nothing but attempt to insult Theists in a "clever" way. You sir, are brilliant.
Your argument makes you seem weak minded. You didn't check the statistics?
No, I did not check the statistics because then this debate is useless. The answer would be obvious and undebatable.
I would argue that it has less to do with the decline of extreme poverty and more with the rise of the information age.
That is an interesting argument. I'm not sure if a disagree though so if you would elaborate
a worthless comment that does nothing but attempt to insult
The only person here that is insulting is you.
Before I go on, let me please inform you, that I am not a man, I am a woman.
Poverty puts people in a desperate situation. For survival, people are willing to do anything. Religion is a tool for mental survival. It allows them to keep moving on in hopes that God will makes things better for them eventually. Imagine, being a 17 year old kid in the slums whose father is dead and mother sick. You have three jobs and are barely able to feed your siblings. You can't make things change. You can't make others change. So, at this point what is the point of living?
One day, you run into this preacher. He tells you that every part and event in life is part of God's plan. If you worship him and believe in him he will reward you in the future. The reward may not be in this lifetime, but I will be in the next... and so on. In these miserable conditions, God offers a possibility of change, a different, better life. God gives hope... blind hope... dangerous hope. But that does not matter, it is still hope.
Now, if a person like me or anyone who does not live utter misery, hope can be found without God. So, religion is pointless for me.
Now I am not saying that the amount of theists completely depends on poverty because religion brings more than just hope. It masks the absurdities of life and death for example.
Backing your arguments with actual facts is useless? I was saying that if you looked at the statistics and the correlation actually supported your thesis I would argue it has less to do with poverty and more to do with scientific advancements in the same period of time. Your statement "Theism comes with the weak minded" is essentially calling me weak minded which I of course take offense to. Wouldn't you be offended if I called you weak minded? (which I did) When you make base generalizations saying correlating theism and stupidity a lot of people will take offense.
Backing your arguments with actual facts is useless?
Indeed. I explained why.
if you looked at the statistics and the correlation actually supported your thesis I would argue it has less to do with poverty and more to do with scientific advancements in the same period of time.
Let us suppose that I did look at the statistics, they did support my thesis, and you argued that the result have more to do with the scientific advancements in the same period. Why do you believe that?
Wouldn't you be offended if I called you weak minded? (which I did)
No, of all things I was not offended, I was amused. Why should it? I do not believe I am weak-minded.
EDIT : I am terribly sorry. I just understood how it could be offensive. I correct my statement "Theism comes with the desperate. Desperate people tend to be weak-minded." By weak-minded I mean easily manipulable.
When you make base generalizations saying correlating theism and stupidity a lot of people will take offense.
I am sure people will be offended but it is not my intention. If they are offended, they are offended. The least they can do is defend their case. Why do you disagree with me?
Weak-minded has nothing to do with stupidity. Stupidity is worse. Theist are not stupid. Some are but there are stupid people in every category.
I pointed out in my previous argument that people become weak-minded due to their miserable situations. Their situation makes them hopeless and desperate. Desperate people are weak-minded. A desperate population is always easily manipulated. A whole population can be manipulated into believing that the Jewish are the cause of their misery or the western populations are the cause of their problems... anything. Why? Because these accusations make the miserable people believe they have the power to change their lives. I am saying that religion gives that power. They are not stupid. They are just trying to survive.
Rich people are a minority in the world population. The majority is poor. I understand why poor people are theists. They have to. To survive. This leads to my believing that a decline in theists would be mostly due to the decline in severe poverty.
What I do not understand is how the educated, rich people believe in God?
All you have told me is that you are offended, that my statement is a generalization (why? we shall never know) and something about scientific advancement which an interesting idea but useless statement and brings us nowhere. At least, I bothered to explain my "generalization". The least you can do is explain yours.
My point about the advancement of the technological age is that people always have to "believe" in something. Even atheism is a belief that the universe works according to a set of laws. The discovery of these "laws" is what has led to the advent of atheism. I admit in olden times people really only had Theism to believe in.
On the issue of providing sources and statistics that back your argument. Our whole debate on whether or not the decline of poverty or the advent of technology is pointless if Atheism is, in fact, not growing.
I agree that this is a fairly pointless debate seeing as it is such a black and white question. The question essentially has a yes/no answer that could have been discovered with a little bit of research. The points that are debatable are the gray areas, or "why" questions. If this person had actually wished to create a real debate they should have discovered if atheism is declining or increasing and then asked "Why is Atheism on the Decline/Incline?". The way you worded your first statement indeed made it seem as if you were saying all Christians were weak minded, which IS a generalization.
My point about the advancement of the technological age is that people always have to "believe" in something.
Why do people have to believe?
Even atheism is a belief that the universe works according to a set of laws.
There are several problems with this statement. If atheism were a belief, it would most definitely not be the belief that the universe works according to a set of laws. It would be the belief that gods do not exist. BUT that too is wrong. If theism is a belief, then atheism is not.
Side note: they technically are both beliefs. But even then, they are not the same type of belief. Theism is based on faith whereas atheism is based on rationality. In my argument, I am going to continue with idea that belief and faith are the same thing. But for the future, they are not.
Theists believe, have faith in a god. Any evidence against the existence of gods will not stop them from having faith. Theism is a belief.
Atheism is the absence of belief in the existence of a god.
Careful analysis and the best evidence have led atheists to realize that the "existence of God" statement is not supported by sufficient evidence. Therefore, they concluded that until there is enough evidence, they will not accept the existence of God. This implies that they would accept the existence of god if valid evidence proving it were presented to them. Atheism is doubt. Theism is not doubt.
Now, I think that the advancement of science (not so much technology) will only add more evidence. More evidence will make atheists more doubtful of the existence of a god. But it will not make more atheists.
More atheists mean that there are less theists. More evidence against the idea that god exists will not affect the number of theists. Therefore it cannot affect he number of atheists. Hence, the advancement of science cannot ( based on what atheism and theism is) be related to the amount of atheists.
The advancement of science is really connected to amount of money. Countries are more scientifically advanced because they have more money to spend on research. Just like the amount of atheists , the advance of science is a consequence not a cause.
I admit in olden times people really only had Theism to believe in.
This statement is incorrect first because it implies that atheism is a belief. Am I right? But even if atheism were a belief it would be incorrect because the doubt in the existence of gods dates from the times of the ancient greece.
While atheism is the lack of a belief in a God it is based on the belief that the universe is an explainable place without God. But there are gaping holes in atheists explanation of how we came to be. In general theism is a way to explain why the universe is the way it is (or why we exist), which atheism also does, they just say it was a chance occurrence rather than by design. Whether or not you think so, as an atheist you have faith in the fact that anything you can't "explain" with science is something that was not done by design.
it is based on the belief that the universe is an explainable place without God
I think you are putting scientists and atheists together. Although atheists tend to be scientists, scientists can be theist. By the way, I don't understand how the belief in God excludes all scientific claims. But I am diverging. Scientist are study the phenomenons of life. Atheist disagree with the argument of "the existence of God". Atheists doubt. I couldn't stress more on that word. Doubt cannot exist in faith.
But there are gaping holes in atheists explanation of how we came to be. In general theism is a way to explain why the universe is the way it is (or why we exist), which atheism also does, they just say it was a chance occurrence rather than by design.
OK. So are you saying that just like theism cannot prove the existence of God, atheism cannot prove the nonexistence of God. But your statement implies that atheists claim that "God does not exist" and try to prove it. But they do not. They simply cannot to accept the claim that "God exists" because of the lack of proof. Not accepting a claim doesn't mean that you accept the opposite.
If I were to give you an idea with weak arguments, you would disagree with my arguments. When you disagree with my arguments you cannot reasonably accept my idea yet. But that doesn't you accept the opposite idea. You just disagree with my idea because it lacks evidence.
Exactly. As an atheist you essentially have to BELIEVE in science. You have to have faith in the fact that science can explain it you just haven't figured out how it does yet. The fact that atheists cannot disprove God means they are essentially taking it on faith that there is no God.
If you don't have faith in a God or in science, you are agnostic, not an atheist. Just to clarify I am not claiming that I can prove God exists or doesn't exist. At this point in time no one can.
Exactly. As an atheist you essentially have to BELIEVE in science.
How did you conclude this from my explanation?
If you don't have faith in a God or in science, you are agnostic, not an atheist.
Ok, this is when statistics and facts are useful in an debate. We have reached the point where we disagree on a definition.
1/ Oxford Dictionary: atheism
Pronunciation: /ˈeɪθɪɪz(ə)m/
noun
[mass noun]
disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
2/ Oxford dictionary: disbelief
disbelief
Pronunciation: /dɪsbɪˈliːf/
noun
[mass noun]
->inability or refusal to accept that something is true or real:
example: Laura shook her head in disbelief
->lack of faith:
example: I’ll burn in hell for disbelief
3/ agnostic
Pronunciation: /agˈnɒstɪk/
noun
a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God.
If you don't have faith in a God or in science, you are agnostic, not an atheist.
I am going to repeat again: atheism is the absence of belief in God. I am not going to go through my explanations again. I already tried to twice.
The way you are seeing agnosticism is that it is the guy in between atheism and theism. Now that is wrong. One cannot even compare atheism and theism with agnosticism. They do not even touch the same subject. Agnosticism is not about the belief in God ( atheism is a disbelief) but about the knowledge. Agnosticism is about knowing the existence of God. Many atheist are agnostics. Hey, even some theists are agnostics
Atheism, by definition, is doubt because atheism is not a faith. Agnosticism is another subject.
Well not all of the people where I live are Christian. Most people say they are Christian but they do all sorts of things like swear, talk about perverted things and make racist jokes. I don't consier them Christian since they do that. Some of them I see at church and all they do at church is to hangout or make them feel comfortable
Even in North America, where there is the least amount of Atheism, it has only been rising as of research since 2008.
I can't say for the years afterward, but I'd need to see who's doing this research that Atheism is declining. Atheism has been on the rise for quite some time.
I live in he south, and there's a surprising amount of atheists here, so I have to assume atheism is on the rise. Of course that doesn't speak as a whole, but it does say a lot considering I'm in the south.
Yes, i think atheism is growing. There is a far lesser religious influence on peoples lives today, and has been declining for quite some time. Sure, in places like Afghanistan they are still deeply involved in their religion, but Christianity is surely going down. I see this to be for the better, now people aren't stoning each other and burning people for being witches e.t.c!
I beleive atheism is growing, but I do not have any statistics to site as proof. I do believe this to be the case though as people stream from their current religions and look for something to believe in, and atheism is the end play when people don't know where to turn.
It is a logical conclusion that intelligent, open-minded people resort to when they are dissatisfied with the flawed logic of their religions. It also has something to do with the growing access of information (such as the internet) which has caused a tremendous growth in Atheism. Not to mention how the population's IQ have been rising, giving birth to more and more Atheists everyday. It's odd how people with high IQ's are less likely to be religious...
After much consideration and soul searching i believe atheism is growing. Below i have pasted a link to a article on Wikipedia. Atheism can be described in such a broad context, and even in itself a religion. 'A Rejection of the belief in the Existence of Deities'. When all religions are taken into account you have to wonder when you chose to embrace that choice of belief, Is it the right one? When any religion wages war, facilitates massacre's, fosters corruption and dictates the moral code of its followers based on the reactions of society then you have to question your faith. Am i being tainted with the blood, pain and injustice of my people. Now call me Crazy but we are all on born to this world, with the desire to learn and embrace the world we live in. To adapt to new discoveries, experience untold beauty, and embrace humanity. With the considerable choice in religions in hard to know which ones to chose. Most dictate the way their followers conduct their lives and i hope that we can agree that this fosters an impartial morale code on society when its followers either become large enough or vocal enough. No one true religion can be right.
“ I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. ”
We can look at the results for the British Social Attitudes Survey, which show 51% of Britain now non religious, but survey figures are misleading, as people who aren't necessarily Christian will tick the Christian box. Also, religious institutions will often cite baptism records as reliable statistics, which is just dishonest. I, for one, was baptised as a toddler but am now an active atheist. Also, the UK is currently legally a "Christian nation" meaning that you are presumed Christian, it is an opt out system. I was very shocked and angry that my school automatically lists you as Christian if you list your ethnicity as "British white".
The fact is, in the twenty first century, people are free to believe whatever they want to believe, and with the advent of the information age, people have access to so much information which often frees them from the bonds of faith and introduces them to free thought and reason. It is no surprise that studies show a decline in religious belief in more intelligent people (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence)(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2111174/ Intelligent-people-less-likely-to-believe-in-God.html), and a decline in faith when critical thinking is encouraged (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn21749-analytical-thinking-erodes-belief-in-god.html).
Young people can now think for themselves and question their beliefs freely, and it's good to see so much support for secularism and rational thinking in my generation.
Question everything! Even whether or not you should question everything!
I find it ironic that England is a Christian nation, but not many of us are actually religious and our politicians don't talk about their personal beliefs outside politics (woo secularism!), whereas America was founded as a secular nation and they're currently teeming with fundies and creationists, while nobody can get elected for anything without claiming they are a Christian.
The developed part of the world's population growth is steadily slowing. The less developed areas which have much higher birthrates also happen to be more religious. I would expect this gap to increase. HOWEVER, this isn't a useful metric since the actual number of new atheists IS increasing over time, and that growth is speeding up.
Atheism is growing and WILL GROW. The explanation is simple, the nearer the rapture is, the more people will decline God as their Lord and Savior. If we take this out of religion and take it as just a type of belief where in there're no such thing as gods, with the human's mind continuing to grow more intelligent, there's no impossibility that they'll think that God doesn't exist.
As what I've experienced, there were also Christians who were actually, atheists in disguise. They believe in God simply because they know it's right. Deep in their hearts, Atheism is DEFINITELY growing. But that's normal because this is one of God's test for us. :)