CreateDebate


Debate Info

159
186
Yes, for the greater good. No, for the greater good.
Debate Score:345
Arguments:201
Total Votes:443
More Stats

Argument Ratio

side graph
 
 Yes, for the greater good. (86)
 
 No, for the greater good. (115)

Debate Creator

Kinda(1649) pic



Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?

This is difficult to create in a 2 sided debate (and to make this post neutral), but first I'll try and explain the question.

Let's look at this from the point of view that you are about to start a religion. You do not believe in it, nor do you believe in God but you see the world around you in despair and want to make some rules. However you feel people will not take these rules seriously and need a way to enforce them. This enforcer is God.

Forgetting whether or not you believe in God, what is God's role to humans? After creating us the universe (or not) is the concept or belief in God what is needed to keep people in order? Let's say there was no God. When going against the rules of the religion how would you be punished? Jail? Community work? Parole? Fines? Or a limitless amount of pain for an infinite amount of time? (to burn in hell). Is that a much larger deterrent than something imagineable and altogether not so terrible? For a follower, is God's existance much more influential than the country's police and courts?

So to get to the original point, should the idea of God be promoted whether or not you believe in Him? Even if He IS a lie, would it be better to to have this lie promote morals or if not God, some kind of 'myth'? Whether real or not, is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?

Two sides are - Yes, belief in the existance of God whether God exists or not has MORE benefits than lack of belief in God.

                       - No, belief in the existance of God whether God exists or not has LESS benefits than lack of belief in God.

P.S. - Don't make this an argument about religions. This is purely about the belief in God and not different religions beliefs and opinions in God. No talk on Christianity, Islam, Hinduism - as that is NOT the question.

Yes, for the greater good.

Side Score: 159
VS.

No, for the greater good.

Side Score: 186
5 points

i firmly accept with this statement.we always even in our day to day life we pray god only for goodness and even we believe that if we pray it is for greater good.as you have stated it is not matter of religions.

Side: Yes, for the greater good.
4 points

I firmly believe that for MOST people in the world it is best that God exists. Purely because the consequences of crossing God are much worse than the laws.

You can escape from the law, you can challenge the law, you can appeal against the law. The law is not perfect. The law has it's flaws.

GOD IS PERFECT (in the believer's mind).

You cannot disagree with God as he is MUCH smarter, wiser etc. he is not corrupted and gives what the person deserves. What's better/worse is that He takes everything the person has done at the end of their life - all the Karma added up at the end of life. So not just one bad incident, but fairly judges him/her after all of their actions.

I will contribute more later.

Side: Yes, for the greater good.
Banshee(288) Disputed
2 points

Yeah, but what about when that perfect, smarter, wiser, fair and uncorruptable god orders up a jihad . . . an Inquisition . . . a witch-hunt . . . a human sacrifice . . . a Crusade?

What about when that god's followers determine that anyone who doesn't believe in their perfect, smart, wise, fair god is a dangerous heretic who should be put to death immediately and in a horrific way?

I'm afraid it's not that simple, mate.

Side: Not inherently either
Kinda(1649) Disputed
2 points

It's not God who orders that though is it?

You're bringing in the acts of certain people who have USED religion to perform certain acts. Not only have I said that we should be keeping religions out of this, but also that you cannot blame religion for how people have used it. Several wars were not caused by religion but I don't see you arguing against athieism for that...

Side: Yes, for the greater good.
jtopolnak(158) Disputed
2 points

What about when that god's followers determine that anyone who doesn't believe in their perfect, smart, wise, fair god is a dangerous heretic who should be put to death immediately and in a horrific way?

You put to much emphasis on man. Man will always make mistakes Christian or not. Our model on how to be a Christian is how Christ walked the earth. He was peaceful never forced anything upon anybody never put anyone to death for not believing in him. Anything other than this is an abomination on God, one of the ten commandments though shall not kill. I have never known of any Christian who is a firm believing to ask for anybody to be put to death.

Side: Yes, for the greater good.
2 points

if the non-divine punishment was not enough then atheists would have a much higher rate of criminality which is not the case

only by challenging the law have we progressed this far - otherwise we would still have slavery and complete ownership and subjugation of women (yes, it is in the new testament not just the old - see 1st Timothy)

http://www.humanreligions.info/violence_and_crime.html#Childhood

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/ sapient/atheist_vs_theist/4149

Side: No, for the greater good.
rustinn(7) Disputed
1 point

You say god is perfect.

If I don't believe in god I go to hell for all eternity right?

Well what if I was the nicest man on the face of the planet. I donated a lot, I cared a lot about strangers. But I don't believe in god. So what happens? I still go to hell for all eternity.

God isn't perfect. Religion isn't perfect.

Side: No, for the greater good.
Kinda(1649) Disputed
1 point

Sigh.....

You can't tell me God isn't perfect. One of the characteristics of God is perfection. You're too narrow minded to even begin to grasp the concept of God. A bling man with his hand on an elephant.

Religion is something you CAN argue. Only some religions would say you'd go to hell for eternity - not all.

Side: Yes, for the greater good.
4 points

naturally it is of greater good,because god has the supreme power and can help us at any time,and when we believe in god we have to ccept this also.

Side: Yes, for the greater good.
2 points

just making random statements is not an argument in support of the question - if you just want to say you believe in god, go to church

Side: No, for the greater good.
4 points

I've tried to make the point that without a real God there can be no good because of the grounding question. Apparently some people aren't familiar with this question. So I've included a link that explains it and demonstrates why there can be no good if there is not a real God. And please don't commit the genetic fallacy of dismissing the argument because it comes from a Christian source. If you disagree please do so on the merits of the argument, not the source.

Supporting Evidence: Moral Grounding (www.str.org)
Side: Yes, for the greater good.
3 points

the "grounding question" only tries to play semantic word games - if someone asks why a god would allow 'evil' then they seize upon the word evil and say that for objective evil to exist means god has to exist. The argument is silly since using any word but 'objective evil' defeats it (pain, suffering, collectively agreed upon evil, etc.)

Put 100 devout people in separate rooms and ask them 100 moral questions (e.g. if a pregnant woman has cancer, can she get chemotherapy to likely save her life if it would likely kill the baby?) - you will get many different answers and different justifications - so if there is objective morality, humans cannot converse with god and figure out what it is.

We would still be left with subjective morality only we would be judged by a god who has an objective morality and sends people to the lake of fire based on a morality they can't know.

Side: No, for the greater good.
JBXXX(53) Disputed
2 points

Everything works the way it would if there was no god, therefore there's no reason to believe there is a god. Just like there's no reason to believe in Zeus or apollo....Etc

Side: No, for the greater good.
2 points

Clearly, the author of this debate is ignorant of the meaning of the term God, or 'doG' spelled backwards. Why? There are many gods and each god is the God of its believers.

Hell, almost all believers and non-believers alike are unaware of the definition of god.

Now, in answer to this debate I submit the following: A belief never equates to greater goodness, in fact, a belief of good is always a consequence of a belief in one's importance.

Or, said this way, 'Because I believe such and such, more individuals receive the good of my belief.' Extremely irrational I would say!

Side: however
Kinda(1649) Disputed
3 points

You've missed the point haven't you. I haven't at one point said I myself believe in God. Even though I do. Not very strongly... but I do.

So you're telling me the world would be better off believing there was no God? EVER.

Again you've missed the point of this debate. In a debate.. you don't just make one statement.. you got to have something to back it up. All you've done is make up a sentence.

Groans...

Side: No, for the greater good.
iamdavidh(4869) Disputed
4 points

Kinda,

I almost guarantee Lawnman understands your debate just fine. He's pretty bright.

I know I understand this debate just fine.

but your description does indeed show your hand that you believe in a god.

Though attempting to be altruistic in that you say as your example the author of a religion does not himself believe it,

the assumption of the reasoning behind an author of religion if there is no god to author it them self (that people were out of control)

is both unknowable, and quite debatable.

There is no way to know if 1. whether people ever stopped acting out of control because of the introduction of a god. 2. whether people would stop acting out of control because of the introduction of a god as opposed to any other method of persuasion.

The assumption that even if there were not a god, there must at least be a reason to believe in a god,

is a deep deep indoctrination within all but a small small percent of humans on earth.

It shows you believe in a god.

I submit that laws work just fine in and of themselves. People do not need now, and never have needed a god or hope of eternal life or fear of eternal damnation. That religion is a decoration and another means of power, sometimes good, sometimes bad, but unnecessary either way.

You want atheists to argue while accepting a premise that most of us do not accept at all.

I not only believe a god is not for the greater good. I don't believe it ever would be under any circumstance. Not even the circumstance you wrote in the debate description.

Side: Yes, for the greater good.
lawnman(1106) Disputed
2 points

You've missed the point haven't you. I haven't at one point said I myself believe in God. Even though I do. Not very strongly... but I do.

Nah, I have been known to miss ‘the point’ occasionally, but not so on this occasion. In fact, I have identified the fundamental premise of your debate (more on this later).Also, you do err in your inference that I implied you believe in God.

So you're telling me the world would be better off believing there was no God? EVER.

Non-sense, what I stated was intended to arouse the minds of those who read my post; it points at the self-evident facts of human nature. I was not attempting to govern or persuade the minds of others, but rather shine a light upon something all men can recognize. Why? All men and women more readily enjoy the benefits of their own critical thoughts than the benefit of some other’s line of reasoning.

Now back to the fundamental(not stated)premise of your debate.

Demagoguery is good for mankind.

I will not put all of the pieces together for you; I will present the facts of my argument without making an argument.

Demagogia (Gr)-control of the people.

Demagogue- a person who tries to stir up the people by appeals to emotion, prejudice, religion, god, government,etc. in order to become a leader and achieve selfish ends.

Demagogos-leader of the people.

And finally, the word God is a mere tool of a demagogue.

My first reply was intended to implicate all would-be demagogues who would use the word ‘god’ to facilitate there own selfish ends of demagoguery.

Your debate is nothing more than the illustration of demagoguery without the use of the word demagoguery while at the same time a debate about whether or not a demagogue should use the word God .

BTW, ignorance is nothing to be ashamed of, for all men are ignorant of more than they are not ignorant of. (No intended hostility on my part if you have taken offence to something I’ve stated.)

Side: however
2 points

Without question God is in favor of men who love him. Christians give more money to charities to than all others combined. Greater is He who is in me than he who is in the world. John 4 4: Our founding fathers built this nation based on God, whether people want to accept it or not it's all over the and written into the constitution for people that don't agree with the doctrine than move to another country where there Constitution fits your beliefs more. It's not just by coincidence that we have become the most powerful nation on every level in the shortest amount of time in history. However the further we as a nation get further away from God the more kaos and trouble we will face as a nation, and that is happening now.

Side: Yes, for the greater good.
iamdavidh(4869) Disputed
4 points

Without question God is in favor of men who love him. Christians give more money to charities to than all others combined.

I disagree. What is your source? I'll bet any person of any religion is just as likely as the next to give to charity. Atheists and agnostics included.

Greater is He who is in me than he who is in the world. John 4 4:

What's the point of quoting the Bible in a debate about god? Who is that for? Anyone who thinks like you doesn't need it, and any who don't think like you only thinks it's silly.

Our founding fathers built this nation based on God, whether people want to accept it or not it's all over the and written into the constitution for people that don't agree with the doctrine than move to another country where there Constitution fits your beliefs more.

No dumb dumb, our country was founded on religious freedom, not religion. Most of our forefathers were Deist, which means: "The belief, based solely on reason, in a God who created the universe and then abandoned it, assuming no control over life, exerting no influence on natural phenomena, and giving no supernatural revelation."

You bible thumpers just decided to high-jack the whole thing. "In God We Trust" wasn't printed on money until 1957... 1957! for crying out loud! The only mention any of our founding documents make of a god are two instances where they refer to a "creator" which could mean any damn thing and in no way discounts the possibility of an absence of one.

I mean, Benjamin Franklin once said light houses were more useful than churches. Jefferson wrote his own version of the New Testament omitting all of the Jesus stuff. Regardless of what you happen to believe, arguing our country was founded on religion is revisionist at best, and quite against the spirit of the Constitution.

It's not just by coincidence that we have become the most powerful nation on every level in the shortest amount of time in history.

Again, this religious revision of our past is a recent phenomenon, and we were doing quite well before you annoying drones begin shoving it down everyone's throat. I mean, name one "religious" state that isn't a third world country. Every successful nation in history has separated church and State, including ours. This Evangelical push to make everyone drink the kool-aid can only end in disaster..

However the further we as a nation get further away from God the more kaos and trouble we will face as a nation, and that is happening now.

bs. 1. there's no sign that this country is now any further away from your invisible dude in the sky than ever before, in fact, the religious have more power now than at any time in our history. 2. The troubles facing our nation are all real problems that praying won't help,

Economy = lack of over site,

War in Iraq = a president lying to us about WMD's (who was one of your types by the way, real christianly of him),

Afghanistan = 9/11,

Those are the three main problems we have. Notice god plays no role in any of them... well except of course that the attacks on us on 9/11 were in the name of a god.

Side: No, for the greater good.
jtopolnak(158) Disputed
3 points

You would like to believe that but the actual facts of the matter and statistics prove you wrong.

Side: Yes, for the greater good.
jtopolnak(158) Disputed
1 point

I respect your opinion that's just the way you feel. I hardly ever see or hear about agnostics giving anything to any charity. It's a given fact the Christians and Organizations help more than any other. If tomorrow God came down and took all the the believers away and there was no more Christians this world would go to hell in a hand basket fast. I guess the argument is for the greater good. For years we have asked God to get out of our schools and our life and our country. So when something bad happens like 9/11 we all of a sudden ask God why did he remove his protection. Total Hypocrisy

Side: Yes, for the greater good.
2 points

I think, even if God doesnt exist, which im not saying he does...I believe 100% He does, but even if he didn't the mere thought of his existance has made many people morally better, and just happier and nicer.

Side: Yes, for the greater good.
1 point

Yes, there can be no good without God. With out an author, everything then becomes a matter of personal preference and interpretation. There is no objective standard by which to judge things. You can't ask the maker of the product how it should be used. It means man has no purpose for which he was made and therefore there can be no deviation from a norm.

But worse than that is if there is no life after death, then justice becomes a sham. Those who go on shooting sprees and then take their lives escape justice. Hitler escaped justice and got off.

But the worst thing is that our lives become pointless and without meaning or value. If we come from nothing and return to nothing, folks we are nothing. Our lives have no value. Then there is no difference between gassing termites and gassing 6 million Jews.

That ought to scare any sane person. Because then you become a commodity for the state to use and consume for it's purposes. There is a correlation between Communism and atheism. For further proof pick up a copy of The Guinness Book of World Records and check out the greatest mass murderers of all time: Atheistic regimes, Stalin, Mao etc etc. There is a reason Russia is experiencing a surge in religion. This question is not a theoretical one for them; they know the answer from first hand experience.

I do however think the greater question is why do we have to protect ourselves from ourselves. Take the Ten Commandments, it ought to stagger us that God has to tell us not to murder and steal. Wow!! that ought to be a given. We shouldn't have to be told not to do those things. And then to be threatened with punishment knowing we will do those things.

Something is amiss at the very core of who we are. Laws can't help us because as soon as they get in the way of what we want, they get broke. And it's painfully obvious religion can't help either; it just becomes a facade we hide behind to justify our actions. Others simply turn to atheism, they close their eyes, cross their fingers and hope no one is home in the universe and proceed to do what they want, when they want. Others still will try to plead ignorance: " I really want to do this and If there is a God I'll just tell Him that I didn't know that it was wrong"

Folks, we need to be saved from ourselves, we are the problem. And when you are lost in the forest the worst thing you can do is ask yourself for directions.

Side: Yes, for the greater good.
iamdavidh(4869) Disputed
3 points

Yes, there can be no good without God. With out an author, everything then becomes a matter of personal preference and interpretation. There is no objective standard by which to judge things.

I disagree. I don't have a god, and am quite an exceptional person if I do say so myself. My objective standard is 1. empathy, what I would like for myself given I were in another's situation - a perfectly natural, and completely human emotion which in no way depends on a creator. 2. what knowledge and empirical evidence has shown us to be the nature of the world in which we live - which again is in no way dependent on a creator.

You can't ask the maker of the product how it should be used. It means man has no purpose for which he was made and therefore there can be no deviation from a norm.

Which product has any god in the history of mankind shown how to use? And what is this purpose you speak of? I mean, everyone has their own "purpose" and the world hasn't ended in fire and brimstone thus far.

But worse than that is if there is no life after death, then justice becomes a sham. Those who go on shooting sprees and then take their lives escape justice. Hitler escaped justice and got off.

Or, if there is no life after death, life becomes even more important. I would submit that most every mass murderer in the history of the world had some belief in some god, so this entire statement is simply incorrect.

But the worst thing is that our lives become pointless and without meaning or value. If we come from nothing and return to nothing, folks we are nothing. Our lives have no value. Then there is no difference between gassing termites and gassing 6 million Jews.

Again, as one who does not believe in any god whatsoever, I can promise from experience that I still find plenty of points to continue living. And again, it makes those lives lost even more tragic as I'm pretty sure they're just dead, and not floating around somewhere as magical spirits.

That ought to scare any sane person. Because then you become a commodity for the state to use and consume for it's purposes. There is a correlation between Communism and atheism. For further proof pick up a copy of The Guinness Book of World Records and check out the greatest mass murderers of all time: Atheistic regimes, Stalin, Mao etc etc. There is a reason Russia is experiencing a surge in religion. This question is not a theoretical one for them; they know the answer from first hand experience.

That's just dumb. I am firmly against communism, as atheist as I am. Further, Hitler referred to himself as an Evangelical in his speeches on Mien Kempf. The crusades killed around 6 million people (5 million in the first four and another 1 million in the Albigensian Crusade.) Terrorism from the middle east is under the banner of religion, as is much of the ethnic cleansing in Africa. Of the two; god's hands are far bloodier than any atheist's.

I do however think the greater question is why do we have to protect ourselves from ourselves. Take the Ten Commandments, it ought to stagger us that God has to tell us not to murder and steal. Wow!!

Agreed. Did it ever occur to you that god had nothing to do with the ten commandments? But that some smart person said, "these people are idiots, we need to figure out some way to control them." This sounds more like an argument for education than against atheism.

that ought to be a given. We shouldn't have to be told not to do those things. And then to be threatened with punishment knowing we will do those things.

Agreed. And again, of the 18% of the human population that identifies them self as atheist or agnostic, you will find about the same proportion within that population as in the religious population who follow the relevant commandments such as don't kill and steal, all without the fear of eternal damnation.

Something is amiss at the very core of who we are. Laws can't help us because as soon as they get in the way of what we want, they get broke. And it's painfully obvious religion can't help either; it just becomes a facade we hide behind to justify our actions. Others simply turn to atheism, they close their eyes, cross their fingers and hope no one is home in the universe and proceed to do what they want, when they want. Others still will try to plead ignorance: " I really want to do this and If there is a God I'll just tell Him that I didn't know that it was wrong"

So you're saying, it doesn't matter if someone believes in a god or not, they're going to do what they do. Agreed again, so how is this an argument for god being for the greater good? It would seem to be an argument for it not mattering... which happens to be a very atheist and free-thinking argument by the way. Odd... btw, I'm not crossing my fingers and hoping no one is home. That's a ridiculous view of atheism.

Folks, we need to be saved from ourselves, we are the problem. And when you are lost in the forest the worst thing you can do is ask yourself for directions.

When man began, we lived in caves, died when we were in our mid twenties of violence or hideous diseases, spent all of our time starving half to death, rape was the general family structure, we smelled bad and were exceedingly harry. Where was god then? That most have since our short advancement from that brutish existence, used religion in one way or another, it seems to me we've come this far quite on our own. Every advance in our existence, from medicine, to exploration of a round world (as opposed flat) has been fought by religion nail, tooth, stake in the ground, and fire.

Side: No, for the greater good.
jstantall(178) Disputed
2 points

Objection number 1:

Didn't say you couldn't be good only that you can't account for it, it's the grounding question. You can't account for good or evil in a purely naturalistic world. Those are moral judgments and making moral judgments is not a characteristic of matter. Hence the saying. dumb as a box of rocks

Objection 2:

When you make something it's usually for a purpose you have in mind, even if it's just to amuse yourself, there is a reason why you do it. If Intelligent Design is correct it would be wise to find out for what purpose we were created

Objection 3:

Explain to me then how justice is established?

For the record; Atheistic regimes have slaughtered upwards of 100 million people. All other atrocities combined don't even come close. But don't take my word for it. check the records. Ideas have consequences and Darwin's produced the bloodiest century in human history. And Darwin's theory was atheistic to the core.

Objection 4:

Again, you most certainly can, but you can't ground it.

Objection 5:

See the answer to objection 3 and go look up the greatest mass murderers in the Guinness Book of World Records.

Objection 6:

The evidence doesn't support your assertion.

Objection 7:

I was driving at the point that we even violate each other. that we do it at all is the greater problem. But again you can't account for Good or evil, Those are moral judgments and making moral judgments is not a characteristic of matter.

Objection 8

If there is a God, then we have hope. Because when you have been caught in the rip tide and you're drowning, you don't save yourself. And unless someone jumps into rescue you, you are as good as dead. In atheism, there is no lifeguard and no one on shore, you are all alone. In Christianity the lifeguard is on duty and He is able to save and He does. How differently will you live your life once you have been taken out of the mouth of death as it swallowed you ?

In what do you have hope? and not the wishful thinking kind, that does no one any good. The confident certain kind that you can stand on.

About crossing fingers. Take the time to read Pascal's Wager. I think the way I characterized atheism is pretty accurate. The smart money is on Jesus.

Objection 9: You presuppose the descent of Man and then use that paradigm to interpret the facts. Might I suggest there might be another way to account for religion. The trouble with your explanation is that it is far to simple and fails to account for a great deal of factors; such as the reality that men don't event things far for terrible than what they know. The idea is always to appease the gods, aka forces of nature, you don't make something up vastly superior to the natural world.

And again you mis-characterize history.

Side: Yes, for the greater good.
jtopolnak(158) Disputed
1 point

I'm sorry you have so much disbelief. Obviously you put a lot of energy to justify in your own-self about any faith towards God. I'm just going dispute some of the comments about if the world would be better of if Christians where gone. All I have to say is think of a places in the world where there is no God and you will only see death, poverty and despair. The evolution is a farce. Do you remember the cover of national geographic when they had a ape like skull saying that they have found the missing link. Of course that was found out to be a fraud. Point I'm making is, all you have to do is look around and look at the perfect order of nature the extreme complexity and to not even think that there is a creator designer behind it that it is just a mere coincidence. It's just stupid to think that all you are is just a piece of walking flesh do to the fact that evolution is the only reason you are here. And that all of nature with it's perfect order is because. Just look up the number of charities and the number is overwhelmingly Christian based probably the number would be actually more because a lot of them are but are afraid of persecution from Church and State laws.

You have denial issues I think deep down you really feel that all of these things are possible but you have chosen to block it out and harden yourself for the truth.

You know what makes me laugh is that you have Agnostic historians looking in the bible for references to help them find ancient cities and places. Take Troy for example just to name one out the dozens. They thought it was a myth until they discovered it referenced passages out of the bible to help them. Dude totally have taken the whole 9/11 thing to far. Pretty insulting of course I don't believe those you said. All I was saying is that we have been relatively safe as a nation and my faith believes that yes God does protect us nothing wrong with that. Bad things do happen no matter what trials and tribulations are a part of life.

As far as using you storied and other quotes from people and Tibet tribes whatever. I don't care what they think. I don't look to others to convince me of what I know and believe I question man when I hear a preacher or someone else taking about their Ideas. All I know is that there is a God and creator of us and everything. It's my own personal believe. Shame on those missionaries for using a lame story about that which is not true. If they where Mormon that would sound like a BS story from them.

Side: Yes, for the greater good.
vanillasmile(57) Disputed
2 points

In order to answer this question the first thing we have to agree upon is on our views of human nature or on the potential of human nature. It seems as the belief in God for the greater good is correlated with the belief that human beings are evil and that have no potential to do good unless they have some belief in a supernatural force. Contradictorily, most religions are based upon the notion that man is a "fallen" creature that needs to be redeemed through rituals, or some sort of metaphysical connection to a higher being. Religion and the belief in God are sustained by the thought that we are evil.

The situation we are in right now religions have preeminence in dictating moral standards. Thus, the basis for our understanding of human nature comes from the religious basis that we need some sort of enlightment or redemption to be restored to a higher plane.

In this situation the only way to achieve a greater good is through God.

thus when yuo say "people turn to atheism and do what they want," you are assuming that this means they will turn into some sort of savages. This is not true. This is just based on your conception of human nature which comes from religion.

I would like to see an interpretation of human nature that is not based on religious premises. One that more objectively demonstrates our potential to be good or bad depending on the environment we are raised, our level of education, and our own genetic disposition.

Side: No, for the greater good.
jstantall(178) Disputed
3 points

How do you account for educated people who are raised in good environments that commit evil?

Also, I'd like to know why people love to do what they know is wrong.

Side: Yes, for the greater good.
1 point

"With out an author, everything then becomes a matter of personal preference and interpretation"

everything is still personal preference and interpretation - which god to believe in, which texts get canonized, and their applicability and meaning given current circumstances

perfect justice, meaning, etc. are only perceived implications - they do not provide evidence for a god, nor specify what god to believe. it is just as likely that we invented and hold on to religion because we want to believe those things exist

Side: No, for the greater good.
1 point

are we forget ? who is the Creator us in the world? is it a human? is it a president? or is it a priest? we are burned in to the world because of god hand,, the god have been giving us mercy and blessing so we can enjoy in this world with many complete body,,every day,,every time,, the god was giving us existence so we can take a walk with our girlfriend or our boyfriend go to the mall,, hangout,, eating,, swimming,,joking,, and other event,, ARE YOU DO NOT REALIZE ? the god was giving us two hand so we can use it for doing something such as eating,,foot ball,, play a game,, giving thing to pauper and other good action,, ARE YOU STILL DO NOT REALIZE ?

Side: Yes, for the greater good.
iamdavidh(4869) Disputed
1 point

Sources please.

I fail to see anything in this semi-literate rant that would convince me you have any idea what you are talking about.

Side: No, for the greater good.
1 point

Did you notice the incoherent rambling and abuse of grammar without one instance of misspelling?

Ah, what the hell, maybe CD ought to offer grammar-check as well as spell-check, all of which is semi-checked.

CD ought to develop a new kind of check: Think-check! Oops! Conflict of interest!!!!

I wish I had your degree of compassion. I may be too compassionate.

Side: however
1 point

is it more likely that an animal with 10 fingers, 10 toes, a heart, a brain, fingernails, lungs, appendix, eyes etc - started eating some meat which was easier for digestion using less energy to process food allowing for better brain development leading to several branches of hominids (homo sapiens, neanderthal, etc.) and homo sapiens survived by adapting well to the changes that occurred

or

an all-knowing, all-seeing, all-powerful, all good, omnipresent yet invisible, 3-spirit single god breathed into dirt to make us in his image which just so happened to look a lot like that monkey and have 98.5% of the same dna?

Side: No, for the greater good.
JBXXX(53) Disputed
1 point

It comes as no suprise that you sound like a moron, because to believe the point you're trying to make you would in fact have to be a moron...realize that. Now what do you have to say for the people living in the horrible places of the world who never see one ounce of joy. Why has "god" neglected the people of North Korea and just chose to give us happiness and swimming, and football, and walking with our girlfriends. Ha you are so naive it's pathetic

Side: No, for the greater good.
lawnman(1106) Disputed
0 points

Stop speaking in tongues, for none whom I know can interpret your tongue. I recommend that you debate with people of your own tongue and forego debating people of a tongue that you clearly don't understand. For your sakes, and your sakes alone, have I counseled you to do such!

Side: however
jstantall(178) Disputed
2 points

Why not give the judgment of charity and not condemnation. Wouldn't you expect that if you were visiting a foreign country?

Side: Yes, for the greater good.
1 point

Belief in God, religion irrelevant is good and has been proven to be beneficial to the psyche of the average person. Humans can't comprehend with the notion that someday your life will end. So a psychological response was made. The idea of a benevolent being watching over you after you die. I for one DO believe in a place after life , despite not believing the most widely accepted religions.

However abuses of the idea are common, for instance dying/killing/sacrificing yourself or somebody else for GOD because that is supposedly the greater good.

Side: Yes, for the greater good.
1 point

I was lost in the Darkest parts of my own wicked ways, spiraling down a path of destruction leading me away from His Almighty ways, and all the while im going down ONLY ONE, He could save me. No matter how far i looked on this lowly planet, i never once found a soul who could manage, to show me the love that i truly needed, because on this planet aint nothing but hate and contempt have been breeded. the lowly snake slithering as he goes through the towns of man looking for lowly lowly souls, to feed on so that it could plant it's evil seeds, and so that throughout the generations nothing but evil and hate we could recieve, but those where the ways of the past, my brothers and sisters. the devil had a hold of us and he managed through our parents, down through the generations His ways have been lost, and because of the us, the devil has turned and tossed, We can All be saved, all we need is Thanksgiving, to the One who Above, for All of His Givings. The devils trying to stop me right now as i speak, but Faithful to the Lord and willit He, that i may be meek. Because it is He not i that gives you this message but it is The One that we All should seek. i know that it is hard to find Rest, as we all go through this test some call a game, every single last one of us, probably, training to gain and retain our fame. But That is not what this life is about, i have a Strong feeling that we are All getting our Water from the wrong wrong spout. because thats all the devil has for us is a little bit, of pleasure, then comes the pain. steady feeding our bodies what i see now Is Insane. because ya'll hafto see that we are all carnally minded, and This is the reason The LORD, us he has blinded, binding, ourselves to our own flesh, so that eventually we would All fail this Test. but know that The Lord, He loves us, and wishes nothing but the best, and all He wants is for us to Love Him all the while through this Test. some wonder why we see nadoes and quakes, He needs ya'll to know that its Ya'lls souls that He is trying to shake. and bake if you will, so the devil may not have his fill, to letchya'll know that there is NONE like that ALMIGHTY AND ALL POWERFULL ONE. i say full because Hes filled with Love, like None that we have seen on this lowly earth, but now that i have SEEN, my Eyes have been UnBlinded, and now it is He, He who signs this, letter so maybe that some of Ya'll could listen, and Maybe get the Message that He is trying to dish, out of His spout, so that ya'll might be fed, with all of His Love, His Water, And His Bread. Don't for a second think any of Ya'll are living, All of ya'll are dead and for the devil are you "living" as i sit here and do this all of the "dome" just know that it is Not me and that this is His tomb. He is singing through me in these words and this song, so that maybe one day we All can be free all the day long, and ya'll can say its cheesy if ya'll want, but just know the devil in you he does flaunt x) i had to stop and show ya'll how i felt about that one, cuz its the truth, and right now i have a Strong feeling He is swinging harder than that brother Babe Ruth, or ballin harder than micheal jordan, and in this song he Is Playing His Accordian. Ya'll just need to know that He is our Guardian, and right now im flying Higher than any single air jordan, because my love i gave to Him more than any of Ya'll so i guess i can say more than them. But dont getit twizted like boi's if ya'll know, that me and moreover Him, have a lot to show. we are all brothers and sisters, but i should call us the missers, because we all fail to see the smaller things in this world, without even thinking twice, what truly brings a man alot of happiness or to see the pain that ALOT of us have in us. i know that we are all hurting on the inside, and for ya'll who say we dont, Boi, you know that is a lie, because only with Him and not that evil leech from down south, can we truly fly. higher than the highest of trees or the tallest of mountains, But in Him we Have to trust, so that We may Drink From The One and Only True fountain, only because of Him can i do this for days, and its Because i gave Him my love, thanksgiving, and praise. so now that i have seen what it is truly to be Man, Men of God, all these hater out there who bout to say something aint nuthing more than sod. sorry if it dont make sense, just know that me and Him the latter first, We are just trying to give His children, ya'll some mother lovin cents. forgive me if i pause for no longer am i a vulgar man life is just a beach, and Now, He is playing in the sand, hopefully in the minds of the young, the daughters and sons, i have my holster, and now the Lord is my Gun, Shining Brighter, than a million suns, times two, because His love is True, actually make that twenty twenty, because He is aplenty, in me in you and All, i just hope that ya'll can hear His call, so that maybe that ya'll may not fall, into the Pit, but right now i can say the devil is probably having a fit, of anxiety cuz he is losing his "children" just know that we are God's and with me He has been pilfering, in my mind day and night, as i have been in my room trying to stay out of sight, of ya'll because all it seems like to me, that nothing to ya'll it would please, more, than to see one of your own fellow brother get shot and fall. when i look around me i dont see any real love, this evil surrounds me, but Now i DO NOT CARE, because the Lord, THE LORD, HE has found me. so now ya'll cannot touch, because with His love, im about to bust. with loving Faith and Trust, i put in Him, so that i can be led away from this life of sin, and Now that i have His Trust, my brotha's and sista's, not just the black ones, comeon now, that just is not a must, there is no such thing man, all that is, is nothing more than an evil thought, brought up in vain, so that maybe a man's soul, that leech, can be bought. Quit being evil, for it is Love, that should be sought, out so once again we may be fed from His Spout, for only He can give us what we need so that in the end we may succeed. my brothers and sisters all we need to do is Believe, and then, Anything, together, WE CAN ACHIEVE. this is an ode to ya'll so in hopes once again that ya'll may hear The Call, and will not fall, so one day me, ya'll, and The Almighty,Perfect, like a prefect without the er, Omnipotent, and Patient ONE, that together we May All Ball. and they keep telling me to stop, but i just cant my brothers me and Him are headed to the top, and right now i got The Heart Of A Lion, King, and pray tell me my brothers and sisters who are reading, what single Beast can stop that king? of the jungle we are running but with Him we can be free. out into the open pasture we all can roam, just know this is not me, and that this is His Tomb. its wierd how they're spelled alike but do not rhyme, im talking bout bomb my brothers, and its One of a Kind. in the Hopes that this petty rhyme, can help lead the black sheep, away from the Blind, being themselves, for who? tell me can save them from that? if you dont answer right then your a part of this blight that runs rampant through the streets, evil im talking about and all it wants to do is eat, your souls because it is angry at the Living God, hahahaha for it is nothing more than a sod, on His Cleat as He is Running, Hoping that some of these Words, hit you right in the stomach, and make you sick, but not you, im talking about the evil you, for we are all children of God, but we have made ourselves nothing more than a sod =( i say with a heavy heart, because all this time we have been playing the devil, his part, but with Him it is nothing but a fart, because He Forgives, and Only Through Him may we EVER, get the chance to Live, and im not talking about on the earth, im talking about another, and maybe one day you can see and i can Truly call you my Brother, for there is Life in Death, but it is only gained through this life which is a test, just know that when we die, if you have lived righteously, on that day you will Fly, for the Lord will Breathe His Breath in you when you die and like i said before You Will Fly, but not if you keep eating from the devil's table, for you can only eat from one, and i hope its Not the devil's table. for if we Eat from Him, we can All go back into His Stable, and only in doing that can we Ever truly be stable, only only if, we are eating from, The Living God's Table. and for ya'll who are sitting at your computers steadily dissin Him, i pray for you, because it you are missin, Him and the bigger picture, just know right now im taking a Big Gulp From His Ultimate Pitcher, not one from the MLB, and if you are listening then i pray that you sea, i mean see, but with Him we can fly over the one before, and higher than mike, dunk it in, right for a score, but not for 2 for it is for 3, because He is Holy in me, but atm holy in you, because you missing some parts, we all need to change, so that we may play His Part, that He intended from the Beginning, because only With Him can we ever be winning, but hahahaha not as long as we are sinning. for that is not the way that we was meant to walk, With Him we was mean to Walk and Talk. once again i say this way i, used to, but we choose to live, is insane in the membrane, but He is using me as His Template, lol or templar whichever you prefer, just know that He is Prefect, ha just without the errrr. as i sit here steadily dissin em i mean the demons in the minds of the children of the One and Only, God Who Is Kind, i hope that they depart, so we can All gaze upon The Divine, not like wine or watch, i aint lil wayne, just know that i feel like im the only one who is sane. because i AM NOT PERFECT, do not get the wrong message for that would hurt me, only He is, and He just wants some love from His Kids, but for some odd reason... we still choose to do the evil leeches bids, for i feel he has sucked to much from us, all of our blood, i mean soul, it has tucked from us, and right now He is aiming at it with a Big Ol' Blunderbuss. to shoot it and unleech it, from His Children's Soul's so one day maybe we can gaze upon, That Wonderful City Of Gold, and dont letit peak your in ter ests, for if you do your not getting whats bests, from this test that He has beset, for our minds to ponder and think on, maybe in some of the hearts out there this message is shining, for He is a Beacon of Light, to shine out all the evils, and end this ugly, hateful blight, that courses through our vains, that nasty garbage that makes us feel insane, because no one is living right, and for That NONE is sane. you can talk and sit there and chatter, but i pray and hope that none get fatter, and im not talking because of mcdonalds, im talking about your ego and pride, because We Alll NEED to push that aside, all we seem to do is breed hate and contempt, sitting there looking for another hurt sould to feed on, thinking it makes us content, but just know NOW people, lolol all your doing is letting the devil be your PIMP! ha ha ha i think that really funny, because in the words of man that just makes ya'll some ho's, and please forgive my trespasses my sisters and brothers, for my vulgar words, because i Did Not mean to hurt, He's just trying to keep our faces from being rubbed in the dirt. but it really shouldnt matter because we are mud, and from One we all came, so can i not call ya'll blood??? nah im not talking about them two glock shotta's, im talking bout from The One Who Has Always Got Us, not us as in the navy, i mean us as in the ones who might sit on that bus, the one going to school and to the ones who drool in class, and all of us who needs a kick in the, pause, ya'll know what i mean, im just sitting here trying not be obscene, all im trying to do is get the bigger picture, through ya'll minds so that maybe one day, we can All WALK IN THE LORDS WAY. forgive me if i make any of ya'll mad, if i do know that i Am sad, but how about ya'll just go to the store and go and grab on of them happy hefty bags, you know i meant glad if you didnt you are simple, and forgive me as i sit here and bust this pimple, lol sorry that was nasty just know that i didnt, and know that we are all fake, and its time for some rhino plasty, or however its spelled im just hoping some hearts will melt, like the plastic we are, and become melded into flesh, as i sit here and type in this Soul Food test, for if ya'll can't hear me then your hearts are so cold, forgive me as i trespass, because, uhm, i Am not trying to be bold, im just tryna through some fia atcha hearts, in the hopes that you may leave the Dark, ness not loch just in case thats watchu thought, all you gotta do is leave your flesh behind, and know that He is the one who Should Be Sought, out so we can drank From His Spout, cuz the Lord Knows, man it has been a drought. we are all so thirsty, but in order to be filled its The Lord who must come firsty x) just know that me and Him are going Stooopid, and for those who are real maaan i thoughtchu knew it. and if you dont i pray you haven't already blew it, up i mean your ego, like a balloon, just know right now i feel like taz boi, yup them looney toones, or tunes whichever you prefer, just know that He is Prefect, just without the err. and i say pre because He was always here, yes before you and me, but with Him i wanna letchu know that we can all be as pure, and as white as the snow, just like powder we can all be melted, i mean melded into the beings we were meant to be, so one day we may fly free as a dove, Right over the sea, so that we all can reach New Jerusalem, yup just right where we was all meant to be, that is the Golden City for those who did not, know, im just hoping that one day we can All be as pure as the snow, because the evil has taunted and flaunted and given us a show, to peak i mean perk up our ears and it, that leech i mean, gave us nothing but fears, fears of ourselves and one another, fears from our sisters and daughter, Father, and brothers, but we have a right to Fear the Living God, because to Him we have all become a sod, He is sorrowful and cries as we follow, the evil being, who was never meant to be followed, and i felt His pain at one point in time, yes i Am talking About the Divine, we both cried together, in my room, because of the little things we miss, something just as small as, a heartfelt kiss... for it is the little things that bring us the greatest joy, not some diamond chain, or a, wind up toy, the biggest thing of all that should, is His Love, should bring us the Greatest joy, in the world, for thats all it is man just cars and noise, all the long going our way, Missing the sweetest noise, zes ya'll know what i mean, im talking about the One who is Never obscene, for He is Just And Right, in each and every single way, and for our sins my borhters and sisters, we have to pay, but do not fret for it is never to late, I think we all need to call upon The Divine, and we should All go on a date, do not worry for on this date there is no rape, or murder, or hate, for that is of the devil, and Your Soul it will take, there is no worries once you follow Him, we should all be hand in hand as we walk down this path, called, life Never having to worry about no pain or strife, or for a bigger picture His Wrath, but ONLY IF WE DRINK FROM HIS PITCHER. for The All Powerful and Righteous Wrath, only comes when you stray from His Path, it is there to show us our wrongs...can you feel His Soul as i sit here and Sing His song? and with Him i will NEVER fall, because with my Brother, I will always Hear His Call. i say we but it is Him, who say these words to in the hopes, that those who have an Ear to listen may never Fall, into the Pit, all you have to do is have Faith, Follow The Ten, Believe, and never EVER Quit, for in order to gain His All Perfect and Good Graces, we have to eliminate ALL the Hate and evil, in all sorts of places, i have a feeling this song was wrote long before, just in His mind and now in mine, and i sing His song in the Hopes, that you follow Him and not any of these "popes" for no hope lies in them, lol and if you truly think aboutit that actually rhymed, just know that im thinking of Him, foremost, but ya'll too as i steadily write This Rhyme, it comes from above yup, Straight From the Divine, in the Hopes that one day ya'll can SEE, exactly it was that we was missing, so we can All fly over the sea. Man this thing is long but i should Say God, because this is His Rhyme, and not from a sod, like me or you, if you real you can feel its True, as His Sword aims at the hearts of His good, flying Straight and Through, lol i mean True, but them if you can follow my friend, all we gotta do is sing Praises and Thanksgiving to Him, until the very end, and give Him all of our love, Because WITHOUT HIM, ha There WOULD BE NO LOVE, all there would be is pain and suffering, and i hope that the ones who are, suffer, i mean acating, Might actually stop and take the time to sit there and be debating, against the devil of course, cuz all it wants to do is, lead us, right, or left, but straight off our course. Lord Please Forgive me, if i am being coarse just know that i am your back, and You Are My Horse, lol ya'll might think He's heavy but He's really not, and i Love Him till Death, i mean Life, cuz i have found It, but back to the point, because i HE HAS TAUGHT, never went to church or none of that, maybe when i was younger but none of that, for our minds our are churches, ha gotit backwards but i feel as tall as the burches, talking bout them trees man im over the seas man, just know i cant, wait, My Father, until You Kick Over My Can Man x) aw man i thoughit was funny, because he's One Cool Dude, and i am His, Bunny, i mean Collie, and know that as i, i mean He, but as i bark, that i have a Strong feeling, that i am playing my Part, or His i prefer the latter but the choice is yurs, because it is His Puzzle, and i am the last part, i cant be for certain because the Knowledge is His, but im just trying to bring His Black Sheep back, you know i mean His KIDS, He thoughtit was funny, But ya'll best Believe that He NOR i the first comes first, but neither one of us is No, pause, Dummy, lol but if you choose you can beat and bite, whatever you do just know it is out of spite, and i dont capitilize because its an evil word, just know me and HIM, are trying to end this wrongful blight, and saying these words i Hope that maybe, just maybe some can be given the Sight, that HE intended us to have, right, from Go, talking bout monopoly,lol but no no more, from the start maaaan all HE ever wanted was us to give our heart, which is HIS, because He gave to us, All that is HIS, HE just Wanted someone to talk to man, thats why HE made HIS Kids, HE was all alone, and then HE built, a Beautiful place for us, and HIM, to walk and talk all the while, just laughing and talking, seeing eachother smile =) because HE is our FATHER, He's not as mean ha as ya'll would believe, just know that HE TRULY IS ONE BENEVOLENT KING. lol ha ha i think this is funny, He knows what im talking about, cuz this is all of the top of the dome with barely a second to pause, Just Know the THE LION KING, Has Opened HIS Claws, Blessed be the children who took the time to listen, to the message that a, and The King is steadily dishin, i say a because i am one too, but know that im a servant, and from a Seed i did Grew, i dont care if it makes no sense to ya'll because i have heard the Lords Call, and they, they know who they are, are always listening, and as He types, through, me i have a feeling they are about to call, Prayer is the Best Wireless Connection X) aint no service down here got that type of Connection, i just hope that i get to see some of ya'll at that intersection, i mean Crossroads, bone thugz n harmony, they said it first, man thats the song man and if you feel their soul, then maybe you should hurt, because those bois on the streets back in the day, all they was doing was searching for some Peace, but in the streets, the oppressors, following the devil, have no love for us in the slums, just know that we All have a Holster and God Is our Gun, we dont need no metal, for The Lord our issues HE will settle, all you gotta do is Have some Faith, saying this in hope that some dont see any wraiths, talking demons people come now and please listen, as the Lord spits his song and these Words HE is dishin, out yup you getting it word of mouf, lol or mouth whichever you prefer just DONT follow that lowly snake, yup the one down south, it might try and offer pleasure and happiness butits all fake, HA what do ya'll expect from a lowly snake? remeber eve as she sat under that tree? sitting there thinking and feeling the breeze? the snake spoke in her Ear temptation it did bring, and after teel me WHO did she fear? she had a split second of happiness and thats all it can give, and after that she felt the WRATH which is ONLY HIS, lol i hope that ya'll see, the way we live people, it just wasn't meant to be, i have a feeling that there all up there laughing, with, not at me as i type out His message, and i pray ALMIGHTY FATHER, THE ONES WHO HAVE AN EAR TO LISTEN PLEASE FATHER PLEASE LET THE HEAR. and the ones who dont i pray you dont hit him hard, maybe just a little tap, just like Babe Ruth, on that baseball card x) Peace be with you my sisters and brothers, just know that HIS LOVE IS LIKE NO OTHER, GOD BLESS ALL WHO FINISHED, AND I PRAY YOUR SOULS NEVER, DIMINISH. ONE HEART IS ALL, AND WITH THAT HEART WE CAN NEVER FALL, lol i said i was finished, but i dont think HE is as you can tell this words are not mine, THEY COME FROM THE UPPER BEING, yup THE DIVINE!!! i think im going to cut Him short and please Forgive me, because i know HE could go all day, BECAUSE I CAN FEEL HIM IN ME.

Side: Yes, for the greater good.
1 point

I was lost in the Darkest parts of my own wicked ways, spiraling down a path of destruction leading me away from His Almighty ways, and all the while im going down ONLY ONE, He could save me. No matter how far i looked on this lowly planet, i never once found a soul who could manage, to show me the love that i truly needed, because on this planet aint nothing but hate and contempt have been breeded. the lowly snake slithering as he goes through the towns of man looking for lowly lowly souls, to feed on so that it could plant it's evil seeds, and so that throughout the generations nothing but evil and hate we could recieve, but those where the ways of the past, my brothers and sisters. the devil had a hold of us and he managed through our parents, down through the generations His ways have been lost, and because of the us, the devil has turned and tossed, We can All be saved, all we need is Thanksgiving, to the One who Above, for All of His Givings. The devils trying to stop me right now as i speak, but Faithful to the Lord and willit He, that i may be meek. Because it is He not i that gives you this message but it is The One that we All should seek. i know that it is hard to find Rest, as we all go through this test some call a game, every single last one of us, probably, training to gain and retain our fame. But That is not what this life is about, i have a Strong feeling that we are All getting our Water from the wrong wrong spout. because thats all the devil has for us is a little bit, of pleasure, then comes the pain. steady feeding our bodies what i see now Is Insane. because ya'll hafto see that we are all carnally minded, and This is the reason The LORD, us he has blinded, binding, ourselves to our own flesh, so that eventually we would All fail this Test. but know that The Lord, He loves us, and wishes nothing but the best, and all He wants is for us to Love Him all the while through this Test. some wonder why we see nadoes and quakes, He needs ya'll to know that its Ya'lls souls that He is trying to shake. and bake if you will, so the devil may not have his fill, to letchya'll know that there is NONE like that ALMIGHTY AND ALL POWERFULL ONE. i say full because Hes filled with Love, like None that we have seen on this lowly earth, but now that i have SEEN, my Eyes have been UnBlinded, and now it is He, He who signs this, letter so maybe that some of Ya'll could listen, and Maybe get the Message that He is trying to dish, out of His spout, so that ya'll might be fed, with all of His Love, His Water, And His Bread. Don't for a second think any of Ya'll are living, All of ya'll are dead and for the devil are you "living" as i sit here and do this all of the "dome" just know that it is Not me and that this is His tomb. He is singing through me in these words and this song, so that maybe one day we All can be free all the day long, and ya'll can say its cheesy if ya'll want, but just know the devil in you he does flaunt x) i had to stop and show ya'll how i felt about that one, cuz its the truth, and right now i have a Strong feeling He is swinging harder than that brother Babe Ruth, or ballin harder than micheal jordan, and in this song he Is Playing His Accordian. Ya'll just need to know that He is our Guardian, and right now im flying Higher than any single air jordan, because my love i gave to Him more than any of Ya'll so i guess i can say more than them. But dont getit twizted like boi's if ya'll know, that me and moreover Him, have a lot to show. we are all brothers and sisters, but i should call us the missers, because we all fail to see the smaller things in this world, without even thinking twice, what truly brings a man alot of happiness or to see the pain that ALOT of us have in us. i know that we are all hurting on the inside, and for ya'll who say we dont, Boi, you know that is a lie, because only with Him and not that evil leech from down south, can we truly fly. higher than the highest of trees or the tallest of mountains, But in Him we Have to trust, so that We may Drink From The One and Only True fountain, only because of Him can i do this for days, and its Because i gave Him my love, thanksgiving, and praise. so now that i have seen what it is truly to be Man, Men of God, all these hater out there who bout to say something aint nuthing more than sod. sorry if it dont make sense, just know that me and Him the latter first, We are just trying to give His children, ya'll some mother lovin cents. forgive me if i pause for no longer am i a vulgar man life is just a beach, and Now, He is playing in the sand, hopefully in the minds of the young, the daughters and sons, i have my holster, and now the Lord is my Gun, Shining Brighter, than a million suns, times two, because His love is True, actually make that twenty twenty, because He is aplenty, in me in you and All, i just hope that ya'll can hear His call, so that maybe that ya'll may not fall, into the Pit, but right now i can say the devil is probably having a fit, of anxiety cuz he is losing his "children" just know that we are God's and with me He has been pilfering, in my mind day and night, as i have been in my room trying to stay out of sight, of ya'll because all it seems like to me, that nothing to ya'll it would please, more, than to see one of your own fellow brother get shot and fall. when i look around me i dont see any real love, this evil surrounds me, but Now i DO NOT CARE, because the Lord, THE LORD, HE has found me. so now ya'll cannot touch, because with His love, im about to bust. with loving Faith and Trust, i put in Him, so that i can be led away from this life of sin, and Now that i have His Trust, my brotha's and sista's, not just the black ones, comeon now, that just is not a must, there is no such thing man, all that is, is nothing more than an evil thought, brought up in vain, so that maybe a man's soul, that leech, can be bought. Quit being evil, for it is Love, that should be sought, out so once again we may be fed from His Spout, for only He can give us what we need so that in the end we may succeed. my brothers and sisters all we need to do is Believe, and then, Anything, together, WE CAN ACHIEVE. this is an ode to ya'll so in hopes once again that ya'll may hear The Call, and will not fall, so one day me, ya'll, and The Almighty,Perfect, like a prefect without the er, Omnipotent, and Patient ONE, that together we May All Ball. and they keep telling me to stop, but i just cant my brothers me and Him are headed to the top, and right now i got The Heart Of A Lion, King, and pray tell me my brothers and sisters who are reading, what single Beast can stop that king? of the jungle we are running but with Him we can be free. out into the open pasture we all can roam, just know this is not me, and that this is His Tomb. its wierd how they're spelled alike but do not rhyme, im talking bout bomb my brothers, and its One of a Kind. in the Hopes that this petty rhyme, can help lead the black sheep, away from the Blind, being themselves, for who? tell me can save them from that? if you dont answer right then your a part of this blight that runs rampant through the streets, evil im talking about and all it wants to do is eat, your souls because it is angry at the Living God, hahahaha for it is nothing more than a sod, on His Cleat as He is Running, Hoping that some of these Words, hit you right in the stomach, and make you sick, but not you, im talking about the evil you, for we are all children of God, but we have made ourselves nothing more than a sod =( i say with a heavy heart, because all this time we have been playing the devil, his part, but with Him it is nothing but a fart, because He Forgives, and Only Through Him may we EVER, get the chance to Live, and im not talking about on the earth, im talking about another, and maybe one day you can see and i can Truly call you my Brother, for there is Life in Death, but it is only gained through this life which is a test, just know that when we die, if you have lived righteously, on that day you will Fly, for the Lord will Breathe His Breath in you when you die and like i said before You Will Fly, but not if you keep eating from the devil's table, for you can only eat from one, and i hope its Not the devil's table. for if we Eat from Him, we can All go back into His Stable, and only in doing that can we Ever truly be stable, only only if, we are eating from, The Living God's Table. and for ya'll who are sitting at your computers steadily dissin Him, i pray for you, because it you are missin, Him and the bigger picture, just know right now im taking a Big Gulp From His Ultimate Pitcher, not one from the MLB, and if you are listening then i pray that you sea, i mean see, but with Him we can fly over the one before, and higher than mike, dunk it in, right for a score, but not for 2 for it is for 3, because He is Holy in me, but atm holy in you, because you missing some parts, we all need to change, so that we may play His Part, that He intended from the Beginning, because only With Him can we ever be winning, but hahahaha not as long as we are sinning. for that is not the way that we was meant to walk, With Him we was mean to Walk and Talk. once again i say this way i, used to, but we choose to live, is insane in the membrane, but He is using me as His Template, lol or templar whichever you prefer, just know that He is Prefect, ha just without the errrr. as i sit here steadily dissin em i mean the demons in the minds of the children of the One and Only, God Who Is Kind, i hope that they depart, so we can All gaze upon The Divine, not like wine or watch, i aint lil wayne, just know that i feel like im the only one who is sane. because i AM NOT PERFECT, do not get the wrong message for that would hurt me, only He is, and He just wants some love from His Kids, but for some odd reason... we still choose to do the evil leeches bids, for i feel he has sucked to much from us, all of our blood, i mean soul, it has tucked from us, and right now He is aiming at it with a Big Ol' Blunderbuss. to shoot it and unleech it, from His Children's Soul's so one day maybe we can gaze upon, That Wonderful City Of Gold, and dont letit peak your in ter ests, for if you do your not getting whats bests, from this test that He has beset, for our minds to ponder and think on, maybe in some of the hearts out there this message is shining, for He is a Beacon of Light, to shine out all the evils, and end this ugly, hateful blight, that courses through our vains, that nasty garbage that makes us feel insane, because no one is living right, and for That NONE is sane. you can talk and sit there and chatter, but i pray and hope that none get fatter, and im not talking because of mcdonalds, im talking about your ego and pride, because We Alll NEED to push that aside, all we seem to do is breed hate and contempt, sitting there looking for another hurt sould to feed on, thinking it makes us content, but just know NOW people, lolol all your doing is letting the devil be your PIMP! ha ha ha i think that really funny, because in the words of man that just makes ya'll some ho's, and please forgive my trespasses my sisters and brothers, for my vulgar words, because i Did Not mean to hurt, He's just trying to keep our faces from being rubbed in the dirt. but it really shouldnt matter because we are mud, and from One we all came, so can i not call ya'll blood??? nah im not talking about them two glock shotta's, im talking bout from The One Who Has Always Got Us, not us as in the navy, i mean us as in the ones who might sit on that bus, the one going to school and to the ones who drool in class, and all of us who needs a kick in the, pause, ya'll know what i mean, im just sitting here trying not be obscene, all im trying to do is get the bigger picture, through ya'll minds so that maybe one day, we can All WALK IN THE LORDS WAY. forgive me if i make any of ya'll mad, if i do know that i Am sad, but how about ya'll just go to the store and go and grab on of them happy hefty bags, you know i meant glad if you didnt you are simple, and forgive me as i sit here and bust this pimple, lol sorry that was nasty just know that i didnt, and know that we are all fake, and its time for some rhino plasty, or however its spelled im just hoping some hearts will melt, like the plastic we are, and become melded into flesh, as i sit here and type in this Soul Food test, for if ya'll can't hear me then your hearts are so cold, forgive me as i trespass, because, uhm, i Am not trying to be bold, im just tryna through some fia atcha hearts, in the hopes that you may leave the Dark, ness not loch just in case thats watchu thought, all you gotta do is leave your flesh behind, and know that He is the one who Should Be Sought, out so we can drank From His Spout, cuz the Lord Knows, man it has been a drought. we are all so thirsty, but in order to be filled its The Lord who must come firsty x) just know that me and Him are going Stooopid, and for those who are real maaan i thoughtchu knew it. and if you dont i pray you haven't already blew it, up i mean your ego, like a balloon, just know right now i feel like taz boi, yup them looney toones, or tunes whichever you prefer, just know that He is Prefect, just without the err. and i say pre because He was always here, yes before you and me, but with Him i wanna letchu know that we can all be as pure, and as white as the snow, just like powder we can all be melted, i mean melded into the beings we were meant to be, so one day we may fly free as a dove, Right over the sea, so that we all can reach New Jerusalem, yup just right where we was all meant to be, that is the Golden City for those who did not, know, im just hoping that one day we can All be as pure as the snow, because the evil has taunted and flaunted and given us a show, to peak i mean perk up our ears and it, that leech i mean, gave us nothing but fears, fears of ourselves and one another, fears from our sisters and daughter, Father, and brothers, but we have a right to Fear the Living God, because to Him we have all become a sod, He is sorrowful and cries as we follow, the evil being, who was never meant to be followed, and i felt His pain at one point in time, yes i Am talking About the Divine, we both cried together, in my room, because of the little things we miss, something just as small as, a heartfelt kiss... for it is the little things that bring us the greatest joy, not some diamond chain, or a, wind up toy, the biggest thing of all that should, is His Love, should bring us the Greatest joy, in the world, for thats all it is man just cars and noise, all the long going our way, Missing the sweetest noise, zes ya'll know what i mean, im talking about the One who is Never obscene, for He is Just And Right, in each and every single way, and for our sins my borhters and sisters, we have to pay, but do not fret for it is never to late, I think we all need to call upon The Divine, and we should All go on a date, do not worry for on this date there is no rape, or murder, or hate, for that is of the devil, and Your Soul it will take, there is no worries once you follow Him, we should all be hand in hand as we walk down this path, called, life Never having to worry about no pain or strife, or for a bigger picture His Wrath, but ONLY IF WE DRINK FROM HIS PITCHER. for The All Powerful and Righteous Wrath, only comes when you stray from His Path, it is there to show us our wrongs...can you feel His Soul as i sit here and Sing His song? and with Him i will NEVER fall, because with my Brother, I will always Hear His Call. i say we but it is Him, who say these words to in the hopes, that those who have an Ear to listen may never Fall, into the Pit, all you have to do is have Faith, Follow The Ten, Believe, and never EVER Quit, for in order to gain His All Perfect and Good Graces, we have to eliminate ALL the Hate and evil, in all sorts of places, i have a feeling this song was wrote long before, just in His mind and now in mine, and i sing His song in the Hopes, that you follow Him and not any of these "popes" for no hope lies in them, lol and if you truly think aboutit that actually rhymed, just know that im thinking of Him, foremost, but ya'll too as i steadily write This Rhyme, it comes from above yup, Straight From the Divine, in the Hopes that one day ya'll can SEE, exactly it was that we was missing, so we can All fly over the sea. Man this thing is long but i should Say God, because this is His Rhyme, and not from a sod, like me or you, if you real you can feel its True, as His Sword aims at the hearts of His good, flying Straight and Through, lol i mean True, but them if you can follow my friend, all we gotta do is sing Praises and Thanksgiving to Him, until the very end, and give Him all of our love, Because WITHOUT HIM, ha There WOULD BE NO LOVE, all there would be is pain and suffering, and i hope that the ones who are, suffer, i mean acating, Might actually stop and take the time to sit there and be debating, against the devil of course, cuz all it wants to do is, lead us, right, or left, but straight off our course. Lord Please Forgive me, if i am being coarse just know that i am your back, and You Are My Horse, lol ya'll might think He's heavy but He's really not, and i Love Him till Death, i mean Life, cuz i have found It, but back to the point, because i HE HAS TAUGHT, never went to church or none of that, maybe when i was younger but none of that, for our minds our are churches, ha gotit backwards but i feel as tall as the burches, talking bout them trees man im over the seas man, just know i cant, wait, My Father, until You Kick Over My Can Man x) aw man i thoughit was funny, because he's One Cool Dude, and i am His, Bunny, i mean Collie, and know that as i, i mean He, but as i bark, that i have a Strong feeling, that i am playing my Part, or His i prefer the latter but the choice is yurs, because it is His Puzzle, and i am the last part, i cant be for certain because the Knowledge is His, but im just trying to bring His Black Sheep back, you know i mean His KIDS, He thoughtit was funny, But ya'll best Believe that He NOR i the first comes first, but neither one of us is No, pause, Dummy, lol but if you choose you can beat and bite, whatever you do just know it is out of spite, and i dont capitilize because its an evil word, just know me and HIM, are trying to end this wrongful blight, and saying these words i Hope that maybe, just maybe some can be given the Sight, that HE intended us to have, right, from Go, talking bout monopoly,lol but no no more, from the start maaaan all HE ever wanted was us to give our heart, which is HIS, because He gave to us, All that is HIS, HE just Wanted someone to talk to man, thats why HE made HIS Kids, HE was all alone, and then HE built, a Beautiful place for us, and HIM, to walk and talk all the while, just laughing and talking, seeing eachother smile =) because HE is our FATHER, He's not as mean ha as ya'll would believe, just know that HE TRULY IS ONE BENEVOLENT KING. lol ha ha i think this is funny, He knows what im talking about, cuz this is all of the top of the dome with barely a second to pause, Just Know the THE LION KING, Has Opened HIS Claws, Blessed be the children who took the time to listen, to the message that a, and The King is steadily dishin, i say a because i am one too, but know that im a servant, and from a Seed i did Grew, i dont care if it makes no sense to ya'll because i have heard the Lords Call, and they, they know who they are, are always listening, and as He types, through, me i have a feeling they are about to call, Prayer is the Best Wireless Connection X) aint no service down here got that type of Connection, i just hope that i get to see some of ya'll at that intersection, i mean Crossroads, bone thugz n harmony, they said it first, man thats the song man and if you feel their soul, then maybe you should hurt, because those bois on the streets back in the day, all they was doing was searching for some Peace, but in the streets, the oppressors, following the devil, have no love for us in the slums, just know that we All have a Holster and God Is our Gun, we dont need no metal, for The Lord our issues HE will settle, all you gotta do is Have some Faith, saying this in hope that some dont see any wraiths, talking demons people come now and please listen, as the Lord spits his song and these Words HE is dishin, out yup you getting it word of mouf, lol or mouth whichever you prefer just DONT follow that lowly snake, yup the one down south, it might try and offer pleasure and happiness butits all fake, HA what do ya'll expect from a lowly snake? remeber eve as she sat under that tree? sitting there thinking and feeling the breeze? the snake spoke in her Ear temptation it did bring, and after teel me WHO did she fear? she had a split second of happiness and thats all it can give, and after that she felt the WRATH which is ONLY HIS, lol i hope that ya'll see, the way we live people, it just wasn't meant to be, i have a feeling that there all up there laughing, with, not at me as i type out His message, and i pray ALMIGHTY FATHER, THE ONES WHO HAVE AN EAR TO LISTEN PLEASE FATHER PLEASE LET THE HEAR. and the ones who dont i pray you dont hit him hard, maybe just a little tap, just like Babe Ruth, on that baseball card x) Peace be with you my sisters and brothers, just know that HIS LOVE IS LIKE NO OTHER, GOD BLESS ALL WHO FINISHED, AND I PRAY YOUR SOULS NEVER, DIMINISH. ONE HEART IS ALL, AND WITH THAT HEART WE CAN NEVER FALL, lol i said i was finished, but i dont think HE is as you can tell this words are not mine, THEY COME FROM THE UPPER BEING, yup THE DIVINE!!! i think im going to cut Him short and please Forgive me, because i know HE could go all day, BECAUSE I CAN FEEL HIM IN ME.

Side: Yes, for the greater good.
Elvira(3446) Disputed
1 point

That's alot.

Side: No, for the greater good.
0 points

What does it take to decide what is the greater good. You need a moral agent using logic and reason to asses a current situation and then to judge that against a perceived standard.

The only thing in that string of events that is physical and made up of matter is the moral agent, but it's morality,logic, reason, assessment and judgment are not. To put it another way; you can't open it's head and see it's thoughts. They have no projection in space; a characteristic of matter. And don't tell me it's like computer memory because every one knows what happens to your hard-drive when you put to much on it. The last time I checked, no ones head gets bigger the more they know ( well I guess it does in one way) The point is that these are non-physical realities. And no they're not the product of chemical reactions, you can mix water and baking soda all day and the bubbles will never talk to you.

Point is this; If atheism is true than we have a whole lot of stuff that shouldn't be here. A lot of non-physical realities in a purely physical world. A lot of stuff that atheism can't account for. Well, they can if they use those non-physical realities to prove that those non-physical don't exist. Oh whoops, darn it that's a self refuting argument.

Side: Yes, for the greater good.
2 points

If you down voted this argument it would be more credible if you gave a reason why.

Side: Yes, for the greater good.
2 points

if anything is not physical, then there must be a god? i think you took a few leaps too many there.

animals have fear etc and differring morals based on the changes their species has encountered over time thats exactly what evolution is

"no ones head gets bigger the more they know" - a hard drive doesn't get any bigger as it stores more information either

Side: No, for the greater good.
1 point

i believe there is more evidence that the greater good is decided by the greater - politically that is. whether a king or a democratic plurality, our morals tend to evolve along with the society the sets them.

Side: No, for the greater good.
Rational(2) Disputed
1 point

I would challenge your assertion that there are "a lot of non-physical realities in a purely physical world". What realities are these? Give concrete examples, don't just throw out the assertion.

For example, you could say, "I believe the mind is an example of a non-physical reality." I would disagree, but then we could argue about it.

Side: No, for the greater good.
7 points

People who need a god in order to feel they should follow the laws are literally sick in the mind, and they should be isolated from the rest of the world. They lack real, concrete morals and a decent understanding of the world. We should not feed this behavior, because if they ever snap, they become extremely dangerous.

Instead of threatening people with the wrath of god and eternal hellfire, we should explain why love and understanding is important. We should explain to them that we are all in this together, and without empathy and caring(the Russians played out a sick experiment to prove this one), we would die. We should explain that when you help someone, you have helped yourself. We should explain that pain and sweat are necessary to survive.

Most importantly though, we should explain that the only part of them that will be left here when they die is what they did, and your actions are a mark on you for eternity, god or no god.

Recently, I have begun to believe in a higher power again. I don't know what it is, but I do know this:

What Jesus was trying to get people to see was the value of freedom. The power of numbers, the power of helping, the power of love, the power of caring, and why it matters. Most people see Jesus as an icon who was crucified for being 'too awesome' or 'too great'. They killed Jesus because he was trying to teach people what it means to care. I firmly believe that if there is a god, and he is the christian god, that he wants people to act with moral integrity for the love of the world. Not because there's a hell. People tend to get that twisted.

Please for everyone, Kindness for Kindness sake, not for heaven or hell. Tread the noble path with noble intent, and you are truly a good person. Tread the noble path because you're afraid of being hurt, and you're a fucking coward.

Whew, that's all I have to say about that.

Side: No, for the greater good.
Kinda(1649) Disputed
2 points

Hopefully you're not being serious in the first paragraph. In general human kind is decent. You're making it seem that the world can live without authority. My point is that we need some form of authority and that God is the ultimate authority.

Again people are decent and do things out of their own hearts, but the world doesn't work in that way, the majority of people need to be pushed in the right direction, no matter how big or small that push is.

I am not trying to portray God as a terrible guy with a whip which keeps as in line. Only showing His superiority to the police or law.

Who is God? The Almighty, Benevolent, Omniscient etc. He is the most moral, righteous, loving, wise etc. He is perfection. That is God. God tells people to do out of love, nobility, righteousness etc. But he has also set the law. Because He is God, His law is right, so living by His word is right. We cannot decide what is right or wrong, as we all have different opinions of what is wrong or right. So if you are to say tread the noble path... wtf is the noble path? It's easy to say, but your noble path is completely different to my noble path and if everybodies noble path is different then there is only one being who can truly decide what is right and wrong as He is Right. THAT is God. He loves you, He takes care of you, He guides you, He juedges you, He punishes and rewards you. In the end He can do everything that nobody else can do.

You understand where I'm coming from?

Side: Yes, for the greater good.
Warlin(1213) Disputed
0 points

You sir, are sick in the head and should be isolated from the rest of society for the greater good. What you're saying is that god is the ultimate punishment and the only way people can have a sense of direction is through him. That is utter bullshit.

I honestly don't know how else I can say that.

People don't need a god. People need other people to guide them.

Side: No, for the greater good.
jstantall(178) Disputed
1 point

That's sounds nice; but why should I? It's a whole lot easier to live for myself. Besides who cares if things get better or not? If there is no God what difference does it make; everything just becomes an exercise in futility. We have no purpose or meaning apart from God. Without God what then is the moral imperative? What then is the "ought" to. Why should we care? Without God we are all headed for nothing. You should take some time to walk through a cemetery and if you get a chance to see a fresh dug grave, stare at it for a while because that my friend is your destiny.

Side: Yes, for the greater good.
vanillasmile(57) Disputed
2 points

Why should you be good for the sake of being good? because you would have a deeper and more educated understanding of the needs for kindness (for example) for you and your peers in this world.

Education allows us to understand our importance in this world, not just as individuals but as members of a society. My well-being in this world depends on how well I am able to relate to others. Education allows me to see that some actions cause harm to my peers and this is undesirable because, through education, I have attained an understanding about their personal dignity. I do not do things based on some reward, I do things based on a practical (and scientific) understanding on the consecuences of actions. Morality becomes objective and factual, not subjective like most religions that impose rules and norms only because "God says so".

Religious morality for example has been changing over time, proving that it is as subjective as any other type of opinion. the bible itself contains examples of the changes that occurr in the laws given to the people. At one point in time christians were not allowed to eat animals with hoofs, however this changed over time. We cannot base our concepts in books that change with the interpretations given to them. If we are looking for a solid conception of what the greater good is, we should find it in science and factual evidence as to what really is right or wrong behavior based on whether or not it is harmful to us.

Side: No, for the greater good.
Warlin(1213) Disputed
2 points

If you truly believe that, you are a lost cause to the world. Take some time to reevaluate who and what you are. I don't care if you have a faith or not, but when you help someone, it should be because it's the right thing to do, not because the magic sky daddy will punish you if you don't do the right thing.

If living for yourself is so easy, then do it. Prove to the world that without a god you have no moral fiber. Prove that you're just a sheep, and that's all you have the potential to ever be. And when they forge into the future, they will condemn your name, and the names everyone like you.

Perhaps there is no god, but even so, life is a precious gift. If you feel like there's no reason to live it without a god, then you're fucking useless. You have ignored Jesus' message. I wish you luck.

Side: No, for the greater good.
iamdavidh(4869) Disputed
1 point

You should take some time to walk through a cemetery and if you get a chance to see a fresh dug grave, stare at it for a while because that my friend is your destiny.

wow... that was sooooo deep, I've never thought of death, I mean obviously that's why I'm atheist...

LMAO. Sorry, couldn't say that with a straight face.

True, we all die. But an atheist accepts that truth, and the religious live in perpetual denial.

Side: No, for the greater good.
1 point

You know what? They are right, we are no different than animals, there is no God I'm happy and content knowing that now my life is easier because of it and when I die that will be all, that's a pretty happy ending to a great life, shitty or not.

Side: Yes, for the greater good.
1 point

you should because if you don't the rest of us might put you in prison or a mental institution.

What then is the "ought" to? - see reply to moral grounding

Side: No, for the greater good.
JesusFreak(174) Disputed
1 point

First of all most people do believe in God for the greater good, but Jesus was here on earth to show the people that their is God. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. Jesus main reason was to give his life for our sins for NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME Jesus said and God cannot be in the presence of sin.

Side: Yes, for the greater good.
2 points

If you care about the greater good, you stick by it. You don't lie to get people to buy your greater good, you explain why they should. If still they decline, you keep pushing. If you know why your greater good is great, you'll be able to sell it to anyone without a single lie.

Church is to the mind, what a prison is to the body.

Side: No, for the greater good.
Kinda(1649) Disputed
2 points

Do you understand the meaning of greater good? It's basically that the end justifies the means. If people were to behave better under a lie (IF God is a lie) then wouldn't it be better to promote that lie? THAT is the greater good.

I'm sorry, but just because you're right doesn't mean people will automatically follow you. World doesn't work like that.

Side: Yes, for the greater good.

As is evidenced by the fact that not many people followed Jesus in His time. He was right about so many things but He wasn't followed then as He might have been. Most people did doubt Him even though He was right in His teachings.

Side: Yes, for the greater good.
vanillasmile(57) Disputed
1 point

If the end justifies the means, then the "greater good" is violated through the way , then I don't think we are talking about a greater good anymore.

If the greater good is to tell the truth, and in order to do things you need to tell people a lie, then there is no more greater good present.

Maybe historically it has been erratically believed that we need some sort of mythical creature in order to be "good". But I do not think that this "greater good" has brought much greatness to humanity in the long run, as it has given way to horrible things through fanatism and it has perpetuated lack of education in many areas related to science. It has also allowed governments to control populations through the use of those beliefs. It has also fostered artificial divisions between different cultures, eventualy leading to wars. Are these means justifiable ? and are the followers really giving our world a greater good?

I don't think we need God anymore to know what is good or bad. I think people are capable to figure things out on their own.

Side: No, for the greater good.
1 point

"If people were to behave better "

i see many references to people believing in god committing horrible atrocities - crusades, burning witches, suicide bombings, 9/11, and tons more which i would think would point to no - and i don't see the overwhelming good that supposedly follows religion. there is assertion by some that Christians give more to charity without any source but even if that were the case it would appear that the overall effect of belief has still been more negative than positive to me.

Side: No, for the greater good.
2 points

No, it's not for the greater good. I think that whether people worship an idle or no they are going to act in such a way as they're nature and experience determined.

Religion is simply something used as kind of a scapegoat. As an example; if the commandments were handed down in the way the old testament proclaims they were, amidst all kinds of shenanigans, I firmly believe the addition of a god would not have been a necessity, that even they as wild as the book claims them to be, would have wrapped their heads around acting in such a way was self-destructive, without the introduction of some god. (For the record, most likely none of that happened, and it is simply a variation on similar stories found from the older version, the Egyptian Book of the Dead, but it serves as an example)

It would seem on the surface to many atheists then, that religion at worse is simply a no-lose, no-gain thing people do.

I disagree. I think while many aspects of religion, indeed most, encourage good behaviour,

I believe taking the easy-out of describing to the religious masses that the reason this optimal behaviour is desirable as "uh, uh, because god said so" encourages stupidity and a lack of reflection,

which while in many cases leads to a group of people who act properly in society,

at the same time makes it really easy to get them to do ridiculous things like blow up buildings in the name of allah, or crusade against the middle east in the name of god.

Thinking people do not act in such a way. I think one who doesn't believe in a god is more likely thinking about these kinds of moral dilemmas instead of simply following some prophet's imagined wishes.

Side: No, for the greater good.
Banshee(288) Disputed
1 point

The unspoken premise of your argument with which I would disagree is that all religions promote moral absolutism. That's really more a characteristic of the Abrahamic faiths (Judaism-Christianity-Islam). Perhaps Confucianism might fall closer to the moral absolutist end of the spectrum (I'm definitely not an expert on Confucianism, so someone more schooled in Confucianist thought could disagree with that classification).

But Buddhism, Taoism, at least some sects of Hinduism, and a good many of the neopagan religions -- just to name a few as a contrast -- espouse situational ethics, not moral absolutism. These don't break down nearly so neatly into "because our God said so" moral behaviors, because that's not how their religious ethic works; the religious morality is based more on principles than precepts. So instead of the Ten Commandments, which are a list of absolute no-nos, you've got things like the Eightfold Path or the Wiccan Rede, which are broad statements of ethical precepts both clear enough and flexible enough to be applied situationally. Those don't easily lend themselves to moral justifications for doing ridiculous things like waging religious wars, because the moral lens is not "hey, those neighboring heathens over there are in violation of Commandment One and we should wipe 'em out as offensive in the eyes of our god," but is rather something like "what kind of relationship with my neighbors comports with speaking truth, acting in peace, and refraining from destructive conduct" (e.g., Buddhism) or "do I even need to care what my neighbor believes and if so, what non-aggressive response can I make that would not presume to assert moral authority over someone else" (e.g., Taoism).

Interestingly . . . one could argue from this basis that the problem is monotheism. Religions with one god seem to go in for moral absolutism with a lot more frequency than religions with no gods or religions with a bunch of gods. So viewed in that way, the answer to the question "is belief in God (singular) for the greater good" would very possibly be "no", but would also be distinct from the question of whether non-monotheistic religious belief is for the "greater good."

Side: Not inherently either
Kinda(1649) Disputed
2 points

I wouldn't really say it's monotheism, but definately the religions that are strongly monotheist. However, I do not blame 'monotheism' for it, it's more of the agression these religions (abrahimic) have. Your thoughts on eastern religions are interesting and I'm guessing you're saying they are based on philosophy?

Side: Yes, for the greater good.
2 points

You're asking two different questions here. One is whether belief in god -- which we can generically identify as "religion" -- has historically been beneficial for mankind and/or civilization. The other is whether we should promote "the idea of God," which begs the question of whose idea of what god.

Has religion been a beneficial force? Meh. It has its pros and cons. Religion does appear to be sort of hard-wired into the hominid psyche. We marvel at the inexplicable, we engage in metacognition (thinking about thinking) and other forms of cognitive abstraction, and we're socially organized around hierarchical moral norms. Religion is an old, old force, dating back to before homo sapiens was homo sapiens. (No, I am not suggesting that any specific religion is that old, just that religious behavior such as ritual disposal of the dead dates back to earlier hominids). So in some ways religion seems to be a functional extension of our creativity, our intelligence, our ability to think symbolically and representationally, and our cognitive process for contending with the unknown.

But has it been a good force? Meh. It's driven art and innovation, but also torture and warfare. Sometimes it pushes scientific development forwards (late-antiquity Persia); sometimes it holds it waaaaaay back (late-medieval Europe). As an organized phenomenon religion has really always been more a creature of politics than one of faith. Over the aeons it's produced some good developments in social welfare, and some bad developments in social welfare. One might say it's the nuclear power of cognition -- potentially useful, but also potentially very dangerous.

Should we "promote" it? Not as an end unto itself, I would think. I can't imagine what value "promoting" religion would have other than to enforce the status quo of a specific given religion. Promoting religion generically -- as in, "hey everybody, go out and pick one!" -- seems rather a useless exercise. Promoting faith-derived personal experience, not in a "read-this-book-go-to-church" way but in a "I had a profound experience that's really triggered some significant insight" way, might be worthwhile in terms of developing one's individual thinking . . . but I'm not sure that's what you're driving at, or sure that's what the effect would be, of attempts to "promote" religion as a phenomenon.

As far as promoting a specific religion goes . . . which one? Most big religions generate their own PR, but I betcha Dievturība or the Ordo Aurum Solis could use a good publicist.

Side: Not inherently either
2 points

Religion has always been a point of argument for human beings. Sometimes, even leading to war, such was the case with the Crusades. What is the point of arguing about something that we're not sure is even there? Sure it may be a strong belief, but why must you live your life by a two thousand year old book?

The Bible is outdated. It is two thousand years old and over a billion people live their life according to the standards set forth in said book. Books should always have more editions, especially for one that hasn't gone out of print for the last two millenia. It doesn't tackle issues like healthcare, the environment or a democracy. Even if it does, it barely goes into any detail.

What I'm trying to say, is that people should stop fighting over and discriminating each other according to what religion they are, but to instead, respect each other for out own, independent character, not by what outdated book they like to read.

Side: No, for the greater good.
1 point

I try not to, but I often find myself classifying people into two groups. One group who is up to the challenge of cultivating their own beliefs and another who are very strongly inclined to adopt a popular or safe profession of belief that minimizes challenges. I consider the latter group to be much much larger than the former.

Theism may indeed promote order but I am not convinced that tranquility and order necessarily entails "the greater good"

Theism, from what I can tell neuters healthy skepticism. If they believe that they have access to an entity worthy of complete and utter trust their critical thinking skills atrophy. I think a good measure of doubt is a necessary component of wisdom and wisdom is essential to the greater good. So my opinion is: No it is not.

Side: Not for the greater good
Kinda(1649) Disputed
2 points

Nice

So you're saying tranquility and order (also a good way life?) is NOT the greater good?

I don't agree that it neuters healthy skepticism and religious people have a good measure of doubt. People are always thinking twice about everything they do, that's normal, difference with theists is they follow their religion. Doesn't mean they don't doubt. Problem these days is TOO much doubt and TOO much skepticism.

Side: Yes, for the greater good.
atypican(4873) Disputed
1 point

So you're saying tranquility and order (also a good way life?) is NOT the greater good?

If you have large segments of the population in full submission to tyranny, You may have order and tranquility at the expense of dignity justice, liberrty etc.. this scenario would serve the few and ignore the greater good altogether

Hopefully that explains better for you what I was thinking when I typed: "I am not convinced that tranquility and order necessarily entails "the greater good"

People are always thinking twice about everything they do, that's normal

Yeah... Thoughtfulness and respectfulness are the norms.. LOL

Problem these days is TOO much doubt and TOO much skepticism.

We are polar opposites regarding this subject. However I prefer it framed in this atheistic manner. So I will start a debate entitled "Which causes more problems religiously, excessive trust or excessive doubt?"

Side: Not for the greater good
1 point

Since there is no scientific evidence to prove a "god's" existence, and most stories and ideas about "god" have been proven wrong over the course of history, it is safe to say that there more than likely is no "god," and if there is, he, she or it likely doesn't care about humanity. Therefore it is detrimental for societies to believe in "god" for 2 main reasons: 1: It gives people who "speak for god" absolute power and infallibility in the eyes of their followers, and 2: It causes people to react based on emotions as opposed to reason.

1. Those who believe that their leaders are under "god's" guidance and are therefore all powerful and infallible put themselves under the yoke of authoritarianism. Though authoritarianism can be achieved without belief in "god," religion is certainly a tool in the authoritarian arsenal as either a means of oppression, i.e: the Spanish Inquisition; or as a means of persecution, i.e: Soviet Russia/Nazi Germany. Erasing "god" from the minds of people allows them more freedom in their thoughts and actions. It should be up to the individual to decide what his or her personal moral boundaries and beliefs are. People should not be influenced by religion or "god" because they end up supporting what they are told to support as opposed to what they would support on their own.

2. Belief in "god" causes people to respond to difficult situations with emotion rather than logic, i.e: the Crusades/ fundamentalist Islamic terrorist organizations. Though not all conflicts stem from beliefs in "god," many do, and the world would be better off with fewer reasons for people to fight. Karl Marx said that religion is the opium of the people. It causes the individual to feel a certain way without taking into account his or her personal opinions. It gives people ideas for irrational plans in dealing with their problems as opposed to logical problem solving strategies. Islamic terrorism is a great example. Much of the animosity Muslim extremists feel towards the West is due to the West's support of Israel. They fight back with car bombs and suicide bombers, when peace talks would be much more effective in supporting their case.

Side: No, for the greater good.
Kinda(1649) Disputed
3 points

This is a great argument, so I marked you up, even though some idiot decided to mark you down...

BUT the problem is that you're still putting MAN's mistakes as God's discredit. You're right that it is the belief in God that some of these things occur, but then again that can be applied to anything anybody strongly believes in. Take football in England... and how 'hooligans' go about it... the fights, friendships, groups etc. (You've seen Greenstreet right?) People fight, go extreme, argue etc. over DIFFERENCES, PERCEPTIONS, INTOLERANCE, IGNORANCE etc.

The thing about having no God and having people think for themselves is that each and everysingly person's mentality and moral coding will be different to their neighbour's and imo that will bring about more destruction than having a God even in today's world.

My point is that having God, without abusing 'Him', would create a better mentality for people than those who do not follow God.

Side: Yes, for the greater good.
vassilgl(55) Disputed
1 point

I think you make a fine point in saying that uniting behind a common religion will bring about more peace than allowing divided opinions, and I also appreciate you referencing Green Street Hooligans. I thought that was a wonderful movie and you tied it into your argument nicely so I marked you up a point for it.

To clarify my argument, I understand that eliminating religious beliefs will not be the end-all solution to the world's problems, and that people will always fight and try to control one another, however I see religion as simply another tool or motivation to fight. I believe that eliminating religion from the list of things to fight over could only help.

To address what you said about uniting behind a common "god": I believe that it is natural for humans to have differences, and that society must find a way to embrace those differences instead of repressing them with religion (or other forms of absolute unity such as authoritarian government, etc.) It may sound nice to have everyone united in feeling and acting the same way, but it is simply not human nature to do so, and history shows that these sorts of feelings only breed more intolerance toward those who don't fall in line. The sort of logic you are arguing for is the same sort that Hitler would have used to explain himself. That society would be better if we all just felt the same way towards everything, and that we were all united behind a common government (or religion in this case). The point I'm trying to make is that people are different. Their moods and opinions are always changing, and the way to cope with this not by eliminating diversity, but finding a way to embrace it (i.e: democracy)

Side: No, for the greater good.
jtopolnak(158) Disputed
1 point

You have to call upon God just try sometime and pray to him and just be yourself have a conversation to with about your worries and ask him to make himself real to you and he will. God doesn't want to be where he is not welcome he doesn't want robots thats one of the reason why he gave us a freewill.

Side: Yes, for the greater good.
1 point

you should try talking to the flying speghetti monster and he may reveal himself - if it is within 10 minutes of the 3rd new moon of the colander year

Side: No, for the greater good.
vassilgl(55) Disputed
0 points

Ive tried to talk to "god," and he fails to make himself real to me in much the same way he fails to make himself real to the 4000 Africans who starve to death every day. When "god" shows to me that he can feed those starving people, or fix the economy, or do something that has a real impact besides making me feel better for a little bit, I'll start believing. Until then "god" can't do anymore for me than heroin can. I can feel euphoria for half an hour, but at the end of the day nothing has changed.

Side: No, for the greater good.
1 point

Belief in God does not dictate a good moral character and that is obvious by the wars we fight, the priests who molest children, the countless acts of violence carried out in God's name/title, people who profit from running religious organizations (i.e. televangelists) etc.

We're a nation that puts "In God we trust" on our currency. If that's not the most blatant contradiction I've ever seen regarding man's claimed allegiance to God...I don't know what is. "God", used to be many gods if you're brushed up on what we now call astrology and mythology. Today, the catch-all term, "God" and the Bible, are used to erase any memory of man's true history and origins so that we may be better controlled by one singular deity who doesn't even exist. I will gladly burn in hell if I'm wrong.

Side: No, for the greater good.
1 point

It's not just a matter of deterrents (i.e. policeman vs. boogie man). Most people seem not to understand that they are good to each other because that's the best way to survive! Or in the context of human society - have a chance of happiness. Without getting into a whole thing about how the media keeps you in a state of perpetual fear (much like the messiahs or priests of old and new) and why, or how a few rotten apples can spoil the whole batch if it seems that antisocial behavior can provide better results for an individual in the short term I just want to say - people are basically and statistically good. It's in our nature to be good. Just like it is to be scared, a fact that the media and religions rely upon with great effect to their bank balance. We need to make a society where there are less (ideally none) poor, uneducated, sick and in other ways unhappy people for no good reason. The question of deterrents, and which one is more effective will become moot. Until then belief in god is just holding us back.

For a proof of concept look at Sweden. It's much easier to get a perspective on things by looking at empirical findings then following your intuition - i.e. throwing around arguments with no real data, making doomsday forecasts and alike.

Side: No, for the greater good.
1 point

Believing in God is so Great! Here's just a little list of all the great things that humanity has achieved in "God's" name!

1. The Crusades: thousands upon thousands of good honest Christians stopped killing each other for a little while to kill thousands upon thousands of "evil" "savage" Muslims in several centuries of good, honest, and God blessed blood letting. Yay God!

2. Witch hunting: without witch hunting, how else would we have been able to put those overly independent, intelligent, or simply abnormal women in their places! And, here's the genius of it; it's win win! Either they're proved to be a witch and then we get to kill them, or they're proved not to be a witch, but they die anyways from the testing!

3. Hell: what better way to make little children behave than by terrorizing them with stories of being tortured for eternity in the fiery bowels of the abyss! Belief in God makes parenting a breeze! This also works for controlling mentally handicapped people!

4. Purchasing Redemption: everybody makes mistakes! Sometimes you just can't help murdering all those innocent children and then defiling their remains. But wait! Have no fear! You don't have to go to Hell! All you need to do is "Purchase your Redemption" from the Pope or any one of his representatives. Although, this option is no longer available in the present day, there's something even better! Not only can you get away with murder, they'll even pay you for it if you join the US Army, or any one of the private defense contractors currently serving in Iraq!

5. Defense against Science (a.k.a. the Devil's Art): From Galileo Galilei to Albert Einstein; from Nicholas Copernicus to Giordano Bruno, our belief in God has protected us against such VILE and DESPICABLE creatures also known as "scientists"! Through such holy means as putting them in prison, burning their books, torturing them to confession, or simply setting them on fire, our belief in God has allowed us to remain in pleasant, ignorant bliss, encouraging us to allow those who are our betters (aka chosen by God) to make our choices for us.

Side: No, for the greater good.
1 point

This is a cop out of the old question to whether god exists or not. If you want your history books forged and you ability to think for yourself stripped of you, I suggest moving to North Korea. Would believing in Santa Claus your whole life make you a better person, what a stupid proposition. Kids don't start stealing and killing when they find out Santa Claus isn't real. The only surprising part is a child can easily fathom Santa not existing, yet grown adults can't do the same with god. Imagine if a child demanded proof that Santa didn't exist, and claimed that it is better to just believe in him...no i bet you can't imagine such a stupid child...only adults seem to be able to defend such an idiotic concept.

Side: No, for the greater good.
Kinda(1649) Disputed
1 point

dumbo alert. I don't know who's thicker you or misterguy.

I guess only time will tell.

Side: Yes, for the greater good.
1 point

I suggest you read the book called "They are either Extremely Smart or Extremely ignorant" Get it free here:

http://extremelysmart.wordpress.com/download-my-book/

Side: No, for the greater good.
1 point

Everything works the way it would if there was no god, therefore there's no reason to believe there is a god. Just like there's no reason to believe in Zeus or apollo....Etc Whether it is for the greater good (which it's not) is erroneus. Should people believe in Santa their whole lives, would it be for the greater good...who gives a shit, and no, I don't need a fake story to help me behave. We've spent long enough listening to these people, lets try and seek actual truth, rather than live in a fairy land.

Side: No, for the greater good.
1 point

I often hear religious people maintain that without God there would not be any reason to be moral - and that society would be chaotic as a consequence.

If that where true why is it that on average 95% of jailbirds consider themselves religious (most of the Christian) in America, and this percentage is higher than the percentage of religious people in lawful society

It seems to me quite the opposite, that on average religious people have a hard time being moral and following the common law (Offcourse any subgroup has their criminals though)

Side: No, for the greater good.
1 point

It's interesting that this question was asked, because if you look at many religions and their roles in society one could argue that many, or perhaps most of them were created with belief in god leading to the greater good; a necessary glue for society.

Fast-forward thousands of years later and we have Christians killing Muslims, Muslims killing Hindus, and so on. We have simple political issues (globalisation, abortion, sex education, homosexual rights, death penalty, cloning, stem cells, global warming, among many others) which are made insoluble because religious groups decide to make these simple issues into theological issues, dividing countries and communities needlessly all in the pursuit of political power and votes.

So while I can't claim to know what a world started on the premise of "No, for the greater good" would look like (since that isn't the case in our world) I can only imagine that it can't be worse that what "Yes, for the greater good" gave us.

Side: No, for the greater good.
1 point

i think that all religion is just a false sense of secruity for people who dont have enough self confidence or want to belong to a community also for when you die you dont just rot but you go to a place in the sky with all your friends and family. You dont.

Side: No, for the greater good.
1 point

No, the terror attacks of 9/11 were faith based decisions and obviously not for the greater good

Side: No, for the greater good.
1 point

Affirming with the truth is always going to be the best route. Sadly in our society, we have created some situations where the only "greater good" is to deceive ourselves or someone else.

I am not saying the truth says God does not exist. I'm saying that until it can be proven as the truth, I'm not going to accept it.

Side: No, for the greater good.
1 point

Ha, well that one went wrong. Crusades. Witch trials. Inquisition. Holy war.

Side: No, for the greater good.

No, the belief in God for the greater good is just a belief that people use as a excuse to push and impede their beliefs on vulnerable people especially children as well as an excuse to act in ways they would deem unjust or wrong, such as Killing in the Name of God.

Side: No, for the greater good.