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Debate Info

5
11
YES NO
Debate Score:16
Arguments:14
Total Votes:17
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 YES (5)
 
 NO (8)

Debate Creator

mykebee34(119) pic



Is 'coincidence' proof that prayer works?

Ive noticed people only give credit to prayer when it works, however they always either blame themselves or other things when it doesnt. So coincidentally, god either thinks those who ask for his sympathy arent worthy of it, hes busy with other peoples prayers, or he doesnt exist. Is prayer just another coping mechanism? 

YES

Side Score: 5
VS.

NO

Side Score: 11
1 point

To be honest, the whole answer depends on what the situation was, what prayer you made and what the outcome came out to be. For example, if your parents went out and they hadn't been back for quite a while, and you prayed that they would make it home, and they came home; then this is coincidence because they were probably coming home anyway.

However when it's something like, for example, when you're dying and there's no cure. And you pray or you are prayed over, and then suddenly you are cured. This is not a coincidence, this is proof that prayer works. For everyone that is an atheist, due to the fact that you don't believe in a God then when you pray you will automatically doubt that it will be answered. And when you do this then the power of prayer won't work. But for Christians, the prayer of a righteous man is more effective.

Side: YES
GenericName(3430) Clarified
1 point

How can you determine which situations are coincidence or legitimate?

It seems as if you are saying the bigger the coincidence, the more likely it is a prayer, but that doesn't provide evidence that it is anything other than a coincidence.

Side: YES
1 point

One day someone prayed that prayers be randomly selected to be granted or not.

Their prayer came true.

Side: YES
1 point

""""Is 'coincidence' proof that prayer works?"""////

What a stupid question. Technically its a Loaded Question Fallacy.

A coincidence is a coincidence. Duhh!

Side: YES
Cartman(18192) Disputed
0 points

The question isn't really all that stupid. The description explains pretty clearly how prayer responses are all just coincidence. It may seem like a loaded question, but is there really any other conclusion to draw about prayer other than it being coincidence?

Side: NO
2 points

Praying is entirely just a coping mechanism for people who believe in superstition. The probability that one's payer will make whatever they're praying for happen is just the same as for some one simply hoping for that same thing to happen or even more, someone not even thinking of whether or not that thing will happen. This can be scientifically tested and I wouldn't doubt if it has been tested to some degree.

Side: NO
2 points

Well said.

Prayer is simply an emotional placebo. If the person doing thew praying THINKS it works, than they feel better. And a positive mindset and attitude can sometimes augment physiological healing in the body. But usually not.

The people who pray for others--what is called intercessory prayer--are experts in engaging in what we call confirmation bias. As well as Cherry Picking.

That is to say, they look only at occurrences when the person they pray for actually gets better. Then they use this as "proof" that their prayer works. Never mind that, 90% of the time it does not work, the person does not get better. This they conveniently dismiss.

And these Believers. Wow! They even have a new technique where, if their god does NOT do what they ask for in prayer, they simply say, "Well, god did answer me. But his answer was NO."

This is called making surer all of your bases are covered. And it is of course impossible to disprove. This tactic for Believers is crucial of course, since they NEVER can offer any proof of their own. SO they can only parrot, "Well, you cannot prove it does not work!"

But as I have said before, Carl Sagan's Invisible Dragon in My Garage fable shows how hard it is to disprove something. No matter how absurd it may be.

There have been countless studies done on the efficacy of intercessory prayer.

Not one has ever shown that it works. Even a little bit.

What does that tell you?

And, as per usual, I will add a link to buttress my claim......

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/05/15/study-concludes-intercessory-prayer-doesnt-work-christians-twist-the-results/

Side: NO
Delvis(221) Disputed
1 point

.............................................................................

You said : """"Praying is entirely just a coping mechanism for people who believe in superstition.'''

That's a positive claim. Prove it

Side: YES
2 points

Blatant confirmation bias proves absolutely nothing, except perhaps that people are so attached to their delusions that they have lost the ability to think. Praying is a dysfunctional comping device for people too inept to find their own hope and agency.

Side: NO
Delvis(221) Disputed
1 point

"""" except perhaps that people are so attached to their delusions that they have lost the ability to think. Praying is a dysfunctional comping device for people too inept to find their own hope and agency.""////

Psychogenetic Fallacy

Side: YES
Jace(5222) Disputed
1 point

My point was not the efficacy of prayer is disproved by the confirmation bias of people who believe in it, so it is not a psychogenetic fallacy. I was explaining that people who engage in confirmation bias usually do so to preserve their preconceived ideas, in this case their belief in prayer, and that this confirmation bias has superseded any value they might otherwise place upon reason since there is no evidence to suggest its efficacy and plenty which suggests its inefficacy.

Side: NO
1 point

no because theres no one to say if so or if not. prayer works if its in gods will or allowed by his permission

Side: NO
1 point

Look, if a group of individuals would submit to a controlled experiment where they prayed for desired pre-announced outcomes that have a 50/50 chance of occurring then we could look at the results and make an objective assessment.

If the results were 50% or less positive then we can say that prayer had no effect.

If the results were something like 65% desired outcome then I for one would be thrilled to investigate further.

Now can anyone offer evidence that prayers over a statistically sound sampling of 50/50 outcomes where prayer made a significant positive outcome? ( That would be very cool. )

Side: NO
1 point

If it make some feel better, practitioners recommend prayer, an activity of dubious efficacy fulfilling a psychological need granted by some invisible deity that 'caused' the need for the litany in the first place. Outcomes occur/happen in spite of.

Side: NO