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5
3
No, it isn't morally wrong Yes, it's morally wrong
Debate Score:8
Arguments:9
Total Votes:8
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 No, it isn't morally wrong (5)
 
 Yes, it's morally wrong (3)

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catninja(249) pic



Is it morally wrong to own a pedigree dog?

Pedigree dogs are those of pure breed; generally speaking, this results in the dogs being more inbred as the parents often have very similar gene pools. This can cause serious health problems such as Cavalier King Charles spaniels having skulls too small for their brains, which results in serious pain for the dog.

By owning a pedigree dog, even if the animal does not display serious symptoms of inbreeding, it could be argued that the owner is inadvertently supporting this industry, and the idea that pedigree dogs are superior to those of mixed breed. Mixed breed dogs tend to be healthier, but should historic dog breeds be allowed to go extinct in favour of a more "generic" type of dog?

No, it isn't morally wrong

Side Score: 5
VS.

Yes, it's morally wrong

Side Score: 3
1 point

I don't think it's morally wrong but I would encourage anyone to get a shelter dog instead. I also do not like the idea of breeds going extinct in favor of the newer breeds, I would love to see efforts made to keep certain breeds alive.

Side: No, it isn't morally wrong
1 point

Having a dog (and treating it kindly, of course) is NEVER wrong. It does not matter what kind of dog it is.

I have never met a dog that was not the natural moral superior of every person I have ever known.

All dogs make us better people. It does not matter if the hair is from a mutt from the pound or a Weimaraner with papers, dog hair on a sweater and paw prints on a sofa or comforter are indications of minimal basic human decency.

Pure bred dogs need love and pizza crusts, too.

Side: No, it isn't morally wrong
catninja(249) Disputed
1 point

Agreed, but that isn't quite the argument I'm making. It's wonderful that many people have dogs and treat them so well. However, the argument is less about the state of owning the dog being immoral, and more to do with the action of getting an ethically sourced dog in the first place.

For example, imagine you have one of the spaniels I mentioned. It's in constant pain from the brain damage, but you treat it well and it loves you. Whilst you are not immoral for having the dog or treating it well (those things are important whatever the breed, all dogs deserve love), you arguably have a share in the responsibility for that dog's welfare. You may not have bred the dog yourself, but are supporting the ruthless breeders who will continue to breed dogs in that manner even when it lowers their quality of life.

However, I concede that this is only the case when buying direct from dog breeders, not if you are buying a pedigree dog from a shelter.

Side: Yes, it's morally wrong
marcusmoon(576) Disputed
1 point

So, you are not really discussing ownership of pedigree dogs. You are discussing bad breeding practices employed by only some breeders of only some breeds.

If I may restate your question in a way that clarifies the root issue:

Is it morally wrong to engage in or financially support breeding practices that, whether through ignorance, use of gene pools with inadequate depth, or negligence, produce genetically inferior dogs, particularly dogs with genetic health problems.

Does this restatement address your concerns?

If so, the restatement demonstrates that your problem is not actually with pedigrees or the general enterprise of breeding pedigreed animals, nor of purchasing them. Your problem is really that many breeders' priorities, resources, or skills are inadequate to engage in effective animal husbandry.

Consider what is at the root of these dogs with health issues.

The older breeds tend to be from stock that was skillfully bred for task-related qualities that are of great advantage both to the owners and to the dogs. These breed groups-retrievers, shepherds, mastiffs, spaniels, hounds, terriers have many breeds that continue to be bred for the ORIGINAL qualities, and by and large, they are healthy dogs BECAUSE of the maintenance of their pedigrees. The only semi-common problem is hip dysplasia in large breeds.

Most of the problems you are concerned with appear only with dogs bred specifically for show, regardless of the original purpose of the breed. There are two main problems that produce dogs with the health and behavior disorders.

1 - Often when selecting for qualities like color or markings, a breeder inadvertently selects out for genetically related (on the same chromosome) negative qualities. This focus on incidental phenotypes may also breed out of the dogs the very positive qualities (temperament, strength, intelligence, etc.) that were the goals of the original husbandry that developed the breed. This is especially common when breeding for miniature and teacup breeds, for particularly uncommon markings, and for all white variations of otherwise varicolored dogs.

2 - Some breeders draw from too small a gene pool. Sometimes this is because they do not have enough dogs in their program, and sometimes this is because their dogs all come from the same bloodlines, and they do not know it. The problem of working from too small a gene pool is that while it compounds positive traits, it also compounds negative recessives.

Recessive genotypes only present as phenotypes when the dog inherits the same genetic trait from both parents. As a result, rare recessive traits may be invisibly, and harmlessly passed on in a suitably large population, but only appear when the breeding population gets too small or too closely related. (This is one of the reasons that the policy of neutering/spaying all dogs that come into shelters is ultimately disastrous to the American canine gene pool.)

These two factors are easily avoidable when breeding pedigreed dogs, and there are several breeds that avoid these issues, partially because of how common they are (large gene pool) and partially because of how popular the original traits are with the people who judge the dogs in dog shows, as well as those who buy the dogs. German shepherds, Australian shepherds, large terrier breeds (pit bulls, etc.), Labrador retrievers, golden retrievers, chows, standard poodles, and most hounds are bred for pedigree very successfully, and generally produce very healthy animals.

On the other hand, the new breeds, usually miniaturized versions of the old breeds, are often screwed up because dog show organizations and breeders selected target traits poorly, did not cull and cross lines often enough, and drew from far too shallow a gene pool.

This would imply that buying a "miniature" anything is likely to be ethically suspect, pedigree or not.

It would also indicate that buying most large breed dogs with pedigrees is most likely to be ethical sound.

Side: No, it isn't morally wrong
1 point

I understand the logic but I think this is a stretch.

1) This would apply to more then dogs. Pretty much every domesticated animal was carefully bred and then maintained at whatever set of charateristics had been sought.

2) Saying yes might also mean that close-knit ethnic groups, like the Jews for example, are ethically wrong to only breed with their own ethnic group.

3) Although there are always some sick dogs I think it's fair to say the majority of pedigree creatures alive out there are reasonably healthy.

Side: No, it isn't morally wrong
1 point

While point #2 might have pushed it a little far, and far afield, points #1 & 3 are sound.

I grew up with a pedigreed German Shepard, and currently I have a pure bred Weimaraner, complete with pedigree and papers. (My family got him from the pound.) Both incredibly good dogs. Both healthy, smart, loving, and even tempered.

Side: No, it isn't morally wrong
Nathanduclos(43) Disputed
1 point

p1.1 yes it would apply to more then dogs.

p2.1 it would be wrong if its externally forced or chosen for you.

p2.2 dogs have different breeds, that are vastly different between humans, we are for more homogeneous then dog breeds.

p.2.3 and your assuming in the question some quality of desirability are good or bad vs preferred or not preferred.

p3.1 - your making a two rooms argument for this. try this example to see why what your saying is nonsensical.

two rooms exist. Each room has 100 people. In one room there are 5 individuals with cancer. In the other 50 with cancer. When making a choice about which room, obviously the non-cancer room is obviously more health if all other things between them are even. If smoking is the difference, the smoking is fundamentally bad if it causes more harm and cancer.

apply the same logic.

two rooms exist. Each room has 100 dogs. In one room there are 5 dogs with that are sick. In the other there are more. When making a choice about which room, obviously the less harmful room is obviously more health if all other things between them are even. If breeding dogs with a increase of sickness is the choice between the two, then bad breeding is fundamentally bad if it causes more harm.

I dont know the numbers 5 is arbitrary, but its more for the other is the point.

Side: Yes, it's morally wrong

Just for fun. Ill take the Con position

The ownership of a dog is morally wrong, regardless of the breed.

1 - While you may be able to provide a good home, many of pet owners do not.

If 1 in 5 pet owners abuse their pets, even though 4 do not, and there is no way to stop it. While you can pass laws to prevent abuse, laws in this area do now work because the care of the pet is in the own as is the defender of the pet. There can be no meaningful challenge to the exercise of the owner’s property rights over when the defender is the applicant.

The same problem exists where non-humans are concerned. If animals are property, they can have no inherent or intrinsic value. They have only extrinsic or external value. They are things that we value. They have no rights; we have rights, as property owners, to value them. And we might choose to value them at zero.

2 - Because they are bred to be dependent on us, the basic relationship between humans and companion animals is flawed because of the difference in power. A sort of Stockholm syndrome, this relationship forces animals to love their owners in order to get affection and food, oftentimes neglecting their animal nature to do so. That means that when an individual has a priority over the pet, the pet looses and has no recourse.

3 - When we talk about rights, the first right is not to be property. Animals are fundamental property. Ownership of another intelligent actor would be wrong.

4 - Human suffering. Pets take up food, medical attention, resources. It take water to feed the plants that are fed to other animals to be slaughtered for a pet. That has to be shipped. The man power hours and others. The impact is 30,000 people die a day, 20,000 from starvation. If there were no longer pets, the resources could be redistributed to other more productive means to stop human suffering.

If the suffering of a human doe’s not outweigh he pleasure of a pet owner you facing a moral dilemma of my frivolous pleasure outweighs the suffering and death of another. .

The amount of food for a pet in its 1 month is enough to feed a 5 people in a 3rd world country, the medicine a pet receives and training into that profession could save 1,000's of lives. The privilege of owning a pet is such that it cost society in ways that people never see, and out of sight out of mind.

In the restuarnt at the end of the universe, a cow is bred to want to be eaten. It has no purpose or design beyond pre-programed to be eaten. Arthur Dent is horrified, and as a reader the point is, its wrong to make/breed an intelligent actor dependent upon another because in the end it has no existence beyond subservience.

Side: Yes, it's morally wrong
marcusmoon(576) Clarified
1 point

I will clarify and comment on your points to ensure the interests of social justice are served.

1 - This is a pet abuse culture. The actual statistic is that 4 out of 5 pets are abused, but 3 out of 4 pets never report the abuse because they are too ashamed, or because they know that they will blamed. People will say the pets deserved it, that they were acting aggressively and asking for it. Typical victim blaming.

2 - Pets are basically treated as property because of primate privilege. This primate privilege is at the roots of the oppression. Humans castrate male dogs in order to make them docile, and to show them at young ages that they are property, and that primate privilege will be enforced with violence and mutilation. The females are either spayed or forced to act as breeding machines. After an estimated 10 millennia of such oppression, domesticated animals have internalized the assumption that primate privilege is the natural order of things.

3 - This has translated into the privileged primates having all the rights, and they are blind to how they oppress all other species. They even think nothing of forcing dogs to go outside to defecate and urinate. Dogs do not even have right to decide where to do their bodily functions.

4 I disagree with you on number 4. Humans are perfectly happy to engage in all the labor and expense of violating the rights of pets just to prop up our own egos.

What the humans need to do is educate ourselves, acknowledge our privilege, and begin paying reparations to the world's pets.

...I feel triggered. I need to go to my safe space to play with Play Dough and oppress a puppy or kitty to make me feel better.

Side: No, it isn't morally wrong