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Debate Info

76
48
Affirmative position SEHFBAHFBAEHRGBOTYGBOTSIGBERHG
Debate Score:124
Arguments:108
Total Votes:139
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 Affirmative position (49)
 
 SEHFBAHFBAEHRGBOTYGBOTSIGBERHG (40)

Debate Creator

FactMachine(432) pic



Is religion child abuse?

Is it child abuse to raise children with the notion that the looming threat of hellfire is waiting for them should they ever deviate from your belief system? Is it child abuse to try to dictate what your children believe and punish them for thinking differently? Is it child abuse to teach your children pseudo science which is engineered to support biblical claims and is not based on observable reality? Is it an abuse of FactMachine's good sensibilities to subject him to the idiotic notion that free will exists and then in the same breath tell your children what they must think and believe?

Affirmative position

Side Score: 76
VS.

SEHFBAHFBAEHRGBOTYGBOTSIGBERHG

Side Score: 48

Yes, it absolutely is a form of child abuse. Your children have the right to make up their own minds about what they believe and in their own time. To be perfectly honest I don't know how anybody would determine the brainwashing of children to be anything other than child abuse. When you indoctrinate a child into religion you snatch away their potential to think critically about the world in which they live. Just because they are your kids does not make them a material possession you can do psychological damage to simply because you want future company on the crazy train.

Just think of the repercussions of bombarding a small child with religion in the modern era. Since religion is slowly dying in the west, the chances are high that your child will be bullied by his future classmates for having such views. This in turn might lead to depression and social problems in later life. If it isn't right for Hitler to indoctrinate children into Nazism then it isn't right for you to indoctrinate children into Christianity or whichever other batshit theistic system you have deluded yourself into taking seriously.

Side: Affirmative position

You know something Nomenclature? My first impression of you was that you are just a condescending communist cognitively impaired cunt and that 100% of everything you say is bullshit but now I'd say it's only about 80%

Side: Affirmative position
Athene(41) Disputed
1 point

So your solution is to deem religion as child abuse given that other individuals will most likely antagonize a devout individual for their views? And you assume that because I am devout to my god, that I lack the ability to think critically?

My question then, is, if you allow your child to espouse homosexual or trans-gendered feelings, by these same standards could it not be classified as child abuse? Its not as if the suicide and depression rates spike in regards to this, or that most of the time they become socially isolated (Which I might add, Christian children of any denomination do not experience on the same level).

Side: SEHFBAHFBAEHRGBOTYGBOTSIGBERHG
FactMachine(432) Disputed
1 point

If you ALLOW your child to espouse homo sexual or transgender feelings that's not the same as forcing them on the child, And I am not very fond of homosexuality or transgenderism but I don't think they should be disallowed from following those tendencies, I do however think that the PC SJW culture that doesn't know what gender is should be marched off to concentration camps and that even a tranny should be able to understand that they are not technically a woman. And I also believe that young children shouldn't be subjected to SJW propaganda because it warps their mind and makes them more likely to be confused about gender and whatnot.

Side: Affirmative position
Jace(4706) Disputed
1 point

Where does this right come from, exactly? And does it extend to protection from indoctrination into political and social ideologies as well, such as moralisms? If not, how do you defend that discrepancy?

Side: Affirmative position
2 points

Yes, forcing religion upon your children is child abuse. First, there are many religions in the world, they cannot all be true, at best one of them could be true, or none are true. So for parents to attempt to shove their religion down their child's throat while they are young and vulnerable knowing full well that there are many competing religions and ways of interpreting the world, is the act of a dictator and bully. Not to mention, the school systems do not seriously teach the products of the last several thousand years of human thought in math, science, history, philosophy, comparative religions, mythology, ect. because as soon as they teach anything the parents/adults would lose their grip on the children's minds that is keeping them confined to this tiny Disney Channel Snowglobe of a world that religion offers. That is to say, the serious pursuit of knowledge about the world and universe of which we are a part of is incompatible with bullshit (aka. religion) and the adults are aware of this. So, they attempt to shield the children from everything we know to be true about the universe and the method of thinking that helped us arrive at these conclusions (ei. science and logic). So, parents/adults intentionally withholding the truth about reality from children in order to shove Fairy Tales and mythology down their throats while they are still young, developing, and vulnerable is obviously child abuse. If that doesn't qualify as Psychological child abuse what would one accept as child abuse short of physically beating children?

Side: Affirmative position
Athene(41) Disputed
1 point

How is religion incompatible with scientific and intellectual pursuits? Many scientific minds and great thinkers alike who have laced the thread of history and contributed breakthroughs that founded much of what modern science operates upon had faith. Its ignorant to suppose my religion can prevent me from delving into any sort of complex scientific research or philosophical cognition. I intend to make sure that my children know as much from the day I give birth to them. Not only will they be taught a set of moral standards and given a backbone of values to live life upon from the bible, but they will also be taught to think for themselves, and deviate if they choose to. It is more than shoving mythical rhetoric down their throats, it is ensuring that they are upstanding in character, as all good Christians I know are. This is much, much different than child abuse.

Side: SEHFBAHFBAEHRGBOTYGBOTSIGBERHG
xMathFanx(1742) Disputed
2 points

Insert "The Chronicles of Narnia" in place of "The Bible" and it should become clear how both Christianity (based on your response I am supposing you are some strand of Christianity) is incompatible with Science/serious intellectual pursuits and is also child abuse (to tell/force a child to believe there is something magical about the Chronicles of Narnia and is in some way seriously true).

To me or anyone who is not your religion, The Chronicles of Narnia is nearly just as true as what you believe in (there are some differences because there are some historical truths in the Bible such as characters, places, ect.).

If you heard that your neighbors were indoctrinating their kids into The Chronicles of Narnia worldview, I think you would be rightly outraged and consider confronting the parents about it at least if not call child protective services if it continued for years and years as the child was growing up. The only thing you have on your side is sheer number of subscribers. As in, many people hold the same outlandish, myth laden views that you do so it is viewed as socially "normal" to people you are coming into contact with on an everyday basis.

Please watch at least a few of these (the first 4 videos are short, the last 3 are longer) and if you provide a few counter videos/articles/books that you insist I should watch/read to illustrate your worldview on this topic then I will:

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDKKJfT5RE

2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sOPbn3XrdU

3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g52sX8PgX8

4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTedvV6oZjo

5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDYiRAEOPwk

6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNhtbmXzIaM

7. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0VnuhHq5m0

Side: Affirmative position
Jace(4706) Disputed
2 points

Being religious and pursuing science or other intellectual ends is not incompatible. Using religion to pursue science or other intellectual ends is incompatible though, because the former advances from faith and the latter from evidence. Typically, when one speaks of the incompatibility of religion and evidence this is what is meant.

If you teach your children that X is good and right then you have not really allowed them to determine what is good for themselves. Instead, you have conditioned them to regard choosing anything not-X as bad and wrong. This is arguably a softer sort of indoctrination but it nevertheless indoctrination. Of course, religious people are hardly the only people who do it; secularists are just as prone to the practice.

Side: Affirmative position
2 points

Indoctrination into any ideology through coercive threats is abusive. That extends well beyond the domain of religion and into most forms of socialization.

Side: Affirmative position
Eloy(195) Clarified
2 points

Indoctrination into any ideology through coercive threats is abusive. ...

Without coercive threats, then, you say it is not abuse, merely education. This sounds about right.

Side: Affirmative position
Jace(4706) Clarified
1 point

I think there's a useful to distinction there, yes. The coercive threat element is largely what makes indoctrination abusive (though not necessarily the only thing).

While I'd agree that absent such coercion one could say that indoctrination is education I nevertheless think it is still indoctrination, although I don't think there's necessarily anything objectionable to that.

Side: Affirmative position
2 points

Whether or not you agree with religion it only counts as child abuse if you

a) Use it to justify denying something they need, like an education or a vaccination, or

b) Teach them something you know is false and personally don't believe, or

c) Use it to physically abuse or even kill them (don't go Abraham on them).

But most of the parents teaching their kids religion really do believe in it. It's not abuse.

And keep in mind there are other white lies and big lies we teach them and society doesn't consider those abuse, either. Stories of the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus, etc. Urban legends like don't masturbate or you'll go blind. In a way, since we already know as adults those things are lies and not to be believe, then telling those lies is more of a child abuse than teaching about religion.

Side: SEHFBAHFBAEHRGBOTYGBOTSIGBERHG
FactMachine(432) Disputed
2 points

Use it to justify denying something they need, like an education or a vaccination Teachings kids that they have to conform to a religion is a denial of one of the most important needs a child could have, the need to learn critical thinking skills and use their own brains to reach logical conclusions so they don't become a brain dead robot jelly fish slave. And keep in mind there are other white lies and big lies we teach them and society doesn't consider those abuse Well I do. since we already know as adults those things are lies and not to be believe, then telling those lies is more of a child abuse than teaching about religion. Not so, because they are equally stupid regardless of whether you believe them or not and children should not be forced to believe them, and religion is more abusive because you are not threatened with damnation for saying santa clause isn't real and the tooth fairy doesn't tell you how to live your life or that the earth is only 6000 years old and science was invented by the illuminati.

Side: Affirmative position
1 point

Fair enough. As parents my wife and I try to do whatever is best. That's subjective.

So far we only talk religion if the kids ask a question about it, and they only time they do that is if they wonder why Nana isn't home on a Sunday morning. We allow the cultural white lies like Santa Claus so they get to participate like their friends, but we don't make a big deal about it. We're fully in support of vaccinations, good education, and raising good people. And so far we've achieved discipline without hitting them.

Your opinion of us?

Side: Affirmative position
2 points

No it's not , I'm an atheist and while I would argue with believers about what and how they believe most believers genuinely hold their position because they firmly believe in the particular belief system they participate in .

In your debate description you're citing what I call extreme religious views which can indeed be termed abuse if a child is damaged psychologically or bodily

Some believers see Atheism as abuse so it depends on what your position is regarding this matter doesn't it ?

A believer believes he /she is giving his kids the best start in life by giving them religious instruction and believe this is essential to raising a model child no malice or injury is intended , quiet the opposite in fact , most grow up to be be decent citizens who just happen to believe in a god .

Side: SEHFBAHFBAEHRGBOTYGBOTSIGBERHG
Jace(4706) Disputed
2 points

Religion leverages the threat of divine, social, and/or familial sanction to coerce compliance. It creates profound dependency by fostering the beliefs that the individual is flawed and that without the religion there can be no personal salvation, social order, happiness, meaning, etc. If a parent engaged in these behaviors towards a child under other circumstances we would not equivocate on the matter, but people like you become the most accommodating apologists when it comes to established social institutions like religion.

Of course you will acknowledge the most extreme instantiations of these practices as abusive, because you do not wish to seem unreasonable. But then it seems suggested that not all religion is as extreme as that, as though a less abusive act ceases to be abusive merely by not being the most abusive it could be. These practices are not merely commonplace but are essential to religious ideology as ideology.

Sincerity of belief and good intention do not influence whether acts are abusive. A person can be abused by someone who means to do and believes they are doing good. Your position here disqualifies any number of cases of child and spousal abuse generally regarded as abusive. It also excuses the extreme religious views you claim could be abusive, because we have no reason at all to believe those people are any less ardent in their beliefs or beneficent in their intention.

Neither does being a 'decent citizen' (whatever that means) suggest that one was not abused. Many (non-religiously) abused children also grow up to be socially functional people.

If atheism or atheists engage in similar behavior (and they generally do) then it is also abusive. The term 'abuse' signifies something in particular, namely habitually violent behavior directed at another person (which we typically identify by evaluating harm, but which is really distinct from the harm).

Side: Affirmative position
Dermot(5453) Clarified
1 point

Hi Troll , I don't know exactly what you're disputing in my post ?

Side: Affirmative position
FactMachine(432) Disputed
1 point

Why aren't you as pissed off about religion as you are about sacred geometry? most believers genuinely hold their position because they firmly believe in the particular belief system they participate in That doesn't make them any less retarded. Some believers see Atheism as abuse so it depends on what your position is regarding this matter doesn't it? No, it depends on which viewpoint is actually correct. A believer believes he /she is giving his kids the best start in life by giving them religious instruction And their wrong, they're just brainwashing their kids with delusional pipe dreams from the shamans hut of delirious peyote popping yopo snuffing ayahuasca shenanegans.

Side: Affirmative position
Dermot(5453) Disputed
1 point

Because sacred geometry is a so called pseudoscience and has no place being regarded as science .

Believers aren't retarded they're indoctrinated take a child from infancy and teach it nonsense and what does it end up believing .....nonsense ; I see them as victims .

I believe Atheism is correct but I cannot force others to accept my views can I ?

Yes , I believe they're wrong also but they totally believe it don't they , so what do you do ?

Side: SEHFBAHFBAEHRGBOTYGBOTSIGBERHG
Athene(41) Disputed
1 point

I suppose I could educate my children in the liberal arts, our new obsession with gender-dysphoria , and ineffective social systems instead. However, in my view, science and religion go hand in hand. Science is the means of getting us closer to understanding the vast grace of god, and religion is the road by which we should travel during our lives. One is a lifestyle, and the other is the method by which we better understand that lifestyle and the world around us.

Side: SEHFBAHFBAEHRGBOTYGBOTSIGBERHG

There is hope for you yet! That is the first post I've read from you concerning Christianity, that was not a rant of bigotted insults towards Christians.

That is an Atheist I could respect. Hopefully it will last.

Side: SEHFBAHFBAEHRGBOTYGBOTSIGBERHG
Dermot(5453) Clarified
1 point

I never say to anyone there is hope for you yet as in the real world I respect people's rights to hold different opinions ,my wife is a Christian and we get along just fine .

I hold my opinions passionately as do others this is a debate site and I expect opposing views ; heated exchanges are regular but I do not take them too seriously

Side: Affirmative position

Yes, the Progressive religion is child abuse. It teaches children things that are demonstrably untrue. Is there a god? Is there a Heaven? Do angels exist? It's not something that's tangibly provable one way or the other. Are there 48 genders? No. Are all cultures equally good? No.

Side: SEHFBAHFBAEHRGBOTYGBOTSIGBERHG
0 points

Parents have the right to each their children about Yeshua....................................................................................................

Side: SEHFBAHFBAEHRGBOTYGBOTSIGBERHG
0 points

Let me take your debate remarks and show you who is truly abusng our children...

Is it child abuse to raise children with the notion that killing them when they were viable unborn babies is ok?

Is it child abuse to try to dictate what your children believes when it comes to political correctness and judge them for thinking differently?

Is it child abuse to teach your children pseudo science which is engineered to support unnatural sexual orientations rather than biology?

Is it an abuse of FactMachine's good sensibilities to subject him to the idiotic notion that free will exists and then in the same breath force all States to change their marriage laws, telling your children what they must think about unnatural Transgender and Homosexual sexual orientations?

You are correct when speaking to child abuse. You just have the parties involved backwards.

Christians truly believe their is a Heaven and Hell, and to ignore this fact and watch as their children destroy their lives with worldly anything goes values, would be ludicrous and a total lack of love and compassion.

As we watch our families fall apart from the lack of moral values in this nation, it is child abuse to watch record numbers of broken homes, and say or do nothing about it.

Side: SEHFBAHFBAEHRGBOTYGBOTSIGBERHG
FactMachine(432) Disputed
2 points

I agree that indoctrinating kids with leftist BS is child abuse, what does that have to do with the fact that christianity is incorrect and God doesn't exist?

Side: Affirmative position
FromWithin(7743) Disputed
1 point

How arrogant does a person have to be, to think he has all the answers, and that Christianity is 100% incorrect? Are you God?

Evolutionists don't even know how the first living cell magically popped to life, yet they are acting as if their theories are fact.

GIVE ME A BREAK! Just because you don't believe in God does not make it so! GET OVER YOURSELF!

For our public schools to be indoctrinating our children with Godless theories to life, is much worse child abuse then anything a loving parent could ever teach their child. A parent loves their children. They care far more than any cold distant public school could ever care about them.

Side: SEHFBAHFBAEHRGBOTYGBOTSIGBERHG
0 points

As a believer in Christ, parents are obligated to teach their children about Christ because they have the authority given by God to raise up their children in the ways of the Lord.

Side: SEHFBAHFBAEHRGBOTYGBOTSIGBERHG