CreateDebate


Debate Info

38
39
Yes, it's bigoted No, not bigoted at all
Debate Score:77
Arguments:38
Total Votes:115
More Stats

Argument Ratio

side graph
 
 Yes, it's bigoted (17)
 
 No, not bigoted at all (21)

Debate Creator

ap0110(70) pic



Is seeing Homosexuality as a sin, and worthy of Hell, a bigoted view?

I'm currently having this debate right now with by evangelical family. They see homosexuality as a sin, and while they don't want to condemn the person himself, they condemn the act of homosexuality. They stand beside their god in judgement of homosexuality, agreeing that they deserve Hell. Of course their perspective is that homosexuality is a choice, and it's not something that a person is born with a tendancy towards. This should come into consideration in the debate when you are expressing your views.

Is it bigoted to believe someone deserves eternal punishment in a literal Hell (this is their view of Hell) because of being a homosexual?

Yes, it's bigoted

Side Score: 38
VS.

No, not bigoted at all

Side Score: 39
5 points

Well, we try a little test. Rate the following in terms of bigotry:

Homosexuality is a sin, we do not hate homosexuals, but god will send you to hell, a place of eternal torture.

Feminism is a sin, we do not hate women, but god will send you to hell, a place of eternal torture.

Miscegenation is a sin, we do not hate mixed races, but god will send you to hell, a place of eternal torture.

Africans are sinners, we do not hate you, but god will send you to hell, a place of eternal torture.

Interfaith marriage is a sin, we do not hate you, but god will send you to hell, a place of eternal torture.

Jews are sinners, we do not hate Jews, but god will send you to hell, a place of eternal torture.

I think that it is all bigotry, essentially having an opinion by proxy so that the proxy takes the criticism instead of yourself. It is cowardly, because it hides behind the proxy (in this case "god") so that you cannot criticise the person directly. Another phrase associated with this is "I was just following orders."

Also, if you will note, all of the above examples were once positions by conservative Christians (modified a little though to fit the sentence grammar). Christians historically have hated Jews, feminism, mixed marriages, interfaith marriages, and have considered Africans to be inferior, sinful Canaanites in order to justify our ownership of them.

Side: Yes, it's bigoted
Cojo62(84) Disputed
1 point

Firstly your argument is very persuasive and well formulated... I like it. With all due respect though, as a Christian (because you do focus on Christianity) here are a few observations I have.

"jews, homosexuals, Africans ...god will send you to hell..."

There are a large numbers of dif religions out there... so I don't say that this is entirely true or not for every religion or non religions, but when it comes to Christianity, God tells Christians that all the commandments (ten commandments) are summed up by Jesus :) when he says "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

How is this applicable

Well... If you saw someone who was incredibly dear to you unconscious, laying on some train tracks and 3,500 tons of train speeding down the tracks toward him, wouldn't you at least say something?

^This is what it is like for Christians. The Bible which is the word of God, says that God will judge all of humanity and those who are not His (Believers, adherers to him) will indeed be sent to hell... So when Christians come across as judgmental, just know its because they know that there is a proverbial train (Gods judgment) and they will do their utmost to help anyone and everyone off the tracks (eternal damnation) and into safety.

Christians historically have hated Jews, feminism, mixed marriages, interfaith marriages, and have considered Africans to be inferior, sinful Canaanites in order to justify our ownership of them.

Christians are not perfect

Hmmm... Ok so I'd haft to agree with you that Christians are, sinnars! and are very much so not perfect... the only thing that sets Christians apart is that they are saved by the grace of God and (should be) striving to be more Christ like (without sin)

Christians Are not exactly hating people

Christians are not called to be "haters" when it comes to people... so if a Christian is "hating" on you, chances are they are not doing what they should... God calls his followers to to hate sin (no doubt about it) but he does not call them to hate the sinner (people). This can be confused; non Christians can say OMG!!! he said Homosexuality is sin, and worthy of, Hell! He's hatting on me! when in reality Christians are showing a love so great that they would lay down their, reservations, pride, good standing and be willing to take sound ridicule so that they might save those who are about to experience all hell break loose... on them :(.

Question

You merely point out Christianity? what makes it stand out to you? what makes it intrinsically so horrific or offending to you?

Why the questions?

Well for example: in the Muslim culture if you are a homosexual you could be in danger of being put to death... Christians may seem naggy and seem/bee judgmental... but I think the former is a bit worse . . .

Conclusion

If your homosexual you are sinning against God, and thus not fallowing him, which in tern means if you do not turn from this sin you are headed toward Hell. so I would implore the homosexuals of today to turn from their sin and fallow hard after God so that they will not die, but have eternal life!

P.S. I forgive the "evil" "white" "Christian" man for enslaving my ancestors... a looonnng time ago... I'm black and have thoroughly studied my history... it wasn't just the Christians... and I don't appreciate this argument as a person of African American decent, nor as someone who has studied history

Side: No, not bigoted at all
aveskde(1935) Disputed
3 points

There are a large numbers of dif religions out there... so I don't say that this is entirely true or not for every religion or non religions, but when it comes to Christianity, God tells Christians that all the commandments (ten commandments) are summed up by Jesus :) when he says "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

It doesn't change the history that the Church was a big purveyor of antisemitism, a supporter of slavery, was against women's rights, interfaith marriages and interracial marriages, etc. You're talking about modern Christianity, which has mostly shed these issues. Go back fifty years and you would see your fellow Christians arguing why interracial couples need salvation.

^This is what it is like for Christians. The Bible which is the word of God, says that God will judge all of humanity and those who are not His (Believers, adherers to him) will indeed be sent to hell... So when Christians come across as judgmental, just know its because they know that there is a proverbial train (Gods judgment) and they will do their utmost to help anyone and everyone off the tracks (eternal damnation) and into safety.

God's judgment was what condemned slaves to their fates, it condemned Africans to second-class citizenship. It condemns women to be seen and not heard. It condemns Jews too, as unsaved people who don't worship Christ.

But all of these divine judgments have become unfashionable. Just as calling homosexuals "sinners" will be too. For the simple reason that people are more important than dogma, and this is why "god's judgment" has been receding for centuries. Human lives are worth more than an ancient edict. In this case it means sacrificing your fear of god for treating your fellow humans as people.

Christians are not called to be "haters" when it comes to people... so if a Christian is "hating" on you, chances are they are not doing what they should... God calls his followers to to hate sin (no doubt about it) but he does not call them to hate the sinner (people). This can be confused;

It achieves the same thing and masks the blame behind "I was just following orders." How many Africans suffered because Christians thought it their sacred duty to treat them as property? How many women were denied meaningful, fulfilling lives because Christian men believed that a woman was essentially property? How many homosexuals are now living as second-class citizens unable to serve in the military openly, unable to donate blood, unable to adopt children, unable to enjoy the benefits and stability of marriage, in addition to being persecuted by hateful people who make it their mission to spread lies and hate?

You have to make a decision to care for your fellow human being more than dogma. Flesh and blood is more valuable than paper.

You merely point out Christianity? what makes it stand out to you? what makes it intrinsically so horrific or offending to you?

The debate poster mentions that he has an evangelical family, not a Hindu, or Muslim family.

Of course, any religion that uses its authority to condemn innocent people strikes me as horrific.

Well for example: in the Muslim culture if you are a homosexual you could be in danger of being put to death... Christians may seem naggy and seem/bee judgmental... but I think the former is a bit worse . . .

Christian fundamentalists support the death penalty in many cases, though not so openly now that they are being called out on it.

Did you know that there was Christian support of the Ugandan bill which would make homosexual sex illegal and punishable by death?

If your homosexual you are sinning against God, and thus not fallowing him, which in tern means if you do not turn from this sin you are headed toward Hell. so I would implore the homosexuals of today to turn from their sin and fallow hard after God so that they will not die, but have eternal life!

One wonders why such a god would need to single out innocent people for death and damnation. I should think that a god worth following would love everyone unconditionally. Anything less is callous, and possibly evil.

P.S. I forgive the "evil" "white" "Christian" man for enslaving my ancestors... a looonnng time ago... I'm black and have thoroughly studied my history... it wasn't just the Christians... and I don't appreciate this argument as a person of African American decent, nor as someone who has studied history

Back in those days it was seen as the law of god, and nature, that the superior whites ruled over the primitive blacks. It was seen that the white southerners were improving the conditions of the Africans, bringing them the Gospel as well. Some proposed that the Africans were the Canaanites, and thus fallen from grace. The Mormons proposed that sin made your skin colour turn dark, and so the blacks were awful sinners by their standards who could never enter heaven.

Of course, there were also liberal Christians who opposed this and tried to rework the theology to fight against slavery. Truthfully I cannot reason how you could work slavery out of a religion which recommends conditions for owning slaves, but they won the majority of opinion eventually. Now Christians oppose slavery because you must love everyone as yourself. The coming change of theology will be the embracement of homosexuals into it, and this will eventually win majority support, and a century from now people will wonder why the discrimination existed in the first place.

I would ask you, if you're capable of loving your fellow man above dogma. You seem passionate on this matter, why can't you put that passion into revising dogma so that fewer people suffer?

Side: Yes, it's bigoted
protazoa(427) Disputed
1 point

would a kind and compassionate G-d send homosexuals to hell? This sounds more like a malevolent entity, who sends a group of people to eternal damnation because of rules that are illogical and not verified to be true.

Even by your 'concern' for homosexuals, you outright state that you are wrong they are right end of story. When Abraham came across an idol worshiper, it was G-d himself who told him to treat him well. Obviously, a kind and benevolent G-d would want people to act in a manner that they see as correct. Only a sadistic mind would punish people for laws that are not even proven to have any merit whatsoever.

Side: Yes, it's bigoted
2 points

All Christians may not act outwardly hostile to homosexuals, like the Westboro Baptist Church, but their beliefs are still those of bigots. If a person believes that another person with a different shade of skin is of a inferior race to themselves, we would call this racism. They wouldn't have to burn crosses or lynch anyone for us to say their view is racist. This applies here as well, that while they aren't hostile physically towards homosexuals, their view point does not promote understanding and instead condemns.

They condemn someone based on who they are, they were born with a sexual orientation towards being attracted towards the same gender. It's the same as someone being born with a different skin color than you or me. It's out of their control, and yet Christians condemn them for this, and that's where I see the bigotry come into play. I can control whether I choose to murder, rape, and stealing, and people are free to judge me on my actions. But judging someone based on who they are and something they are is wrong.

Side: Yes, it's bigoted
MegaDittos(571) Disputed
0 points

If you believe your religion or lack there of makes you superior to those of the Christian religion, was does that make you?

Side: No, not bigoted at all
ap0110(70) Disputed
2 points

That makes my system of morality superior to them. I'm not afraid to say that I am more moral than the god of the Bible. He's a disgusting creature, and if he does exist, he is not worthy of anyone's worship.

Side: Yes, it's bigoted
2 points

Seeing homosexuality as a sin and worthy of hell is indeed a bigoted view. Homosexuality (correct me if i am wrong) has to do with genetics, enviroment and the cycle of events that takes place in an individual's personal life. Those in religion do not care what happens to a person that caused them to be like homosexuals but they just hold onto their traditional views and in what they believe is right.

Side: Yes, it's bigoted
MegaDittos(571) Disputed
0 points

If homosexuality has to do with gentics, how in the hell is reproduction accomplished?

Darwin or superior design believer?

Side: No, not bigoted at all
sayyad99(773) Disputed
2 points

Here are the evidence you need. People are different because they all have a different genetic properties just like everyone has a different type of DNA. These are the evidence you need:

http://www.skeptictank.org/gaygene.htm

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/ Alt/alt.politics/2006-05/msg00677.html

Side: Yes, it's bigoted
protazoa(427) Disputed
2 points

Through the "gay uncle" theory:

homosexuality is a recessive trait. which is why a homosexual child can be born from heterosexual parents. Additionally, there is a selective benefit to holding the recessive gay gene: even if the phenotype of the heterozygous carrier is unchanged, a non-reproducing offspring could aid in the caring of their sibling's progeny, thus causing a net gain in the genetic success rate. After all, if one views a species as a system of replicating genes-rather than themselves as individuals- it would be beneficial for humans, with such long prepubescent developmental stages, to have back-up parental systems should the biological parents, through sheer chance, die before their offspring are self sufficient.

Side: Yes, it's bigoted
1 point

Yes!

Those who know about true Christianity know that nothing is unforgivable by God. Homosexuality is a sin, yes, but so is sex before marriage, lieing, stealing, and even hate.

But no one cries out over these things in our society. Why so much hate against this thing? It's hypocrisy.

Side: Yes, it's bigoted
3 points

Those who know about true Christianity know that nothing is unforgivable by God.

We have observed a common practice of ascribing all faults of doctrine to some bastard form of whichever religion is in question. As to how such could be thought to deceive, we cannot conceive.

Side: No, not bigoted at all
ap0110(70) Disputed
3 points

I love these words "true Christianity". Out of the several large schisms in the church, and thousands of sects/denominations, how do you decide which one is the "true Christianity"?

There's no true Scotsman!

Side: No, not bigoted at all

It is hatred, pure and simple. The Leviticus 20:13 verse should be removed from the Bible.

Side: Yes, it's bigoted
2 points

Is seeing Homosexuality as a sin, and worthy of Hell, a bigoted view?

No, it's their opinion. End of story.

Side: No, not bigoted at all
ap0110(70) Disputed
2 points

It's an opinion that causes suffering on part of our population by denying them basic human rights. Opinions lead to actions, and the actions taken against the homosexual community in America have caused so much unnecessary suffering, all because you want to hold on to your Bronze Aged view of sexuality and sexual orientation.

Side: Yes, it's bigoted
christjesus(318) Disputed
2 points

It's an opinion that causes suffering on part of our population by denying them basic human rights. Opinions lead to actions, and the actions taken against the homosexual community in America have caused so much unnecessary suffering, all because you want to hold on to your Bronze Aged view of sexuality and sexual orientation.

They do not deserve equal rights. We are superior.

Side: No, not bigoted at all

Anyone who thinks that homosexuality is a wonderful thing is a homosexual themselves.

Side: No, not bigoted at all
protazoa(427) Disputed
1 point

I personally am a fan of bisexual women. By your definition, nearly all men are homosexual...

Side: Yes, it's bigoted
1 point

It's not bigoted, but anyone who says something like that should have their head examined, and probably be put in an insane asylum for a while.

Side: No, not bigoted at all
1 point

The truth cannot be a bigoted view. Faggots are going to Hell because they chose to be faggots. Simple logic at its best.

Side: No, not bigoted at all
0 points

Most Christians will tell you that any believer in Jesus (even homosexuals) who repents of their sins and actively tries to improve themselves will not be sent to hell. Christians believe the act of homosexuality is a sin because it's simply unbiblical, and condemned several times. The definition of bigotry is: "Being intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion." So in that sense, you could call it bigotry, but why should bigotry always be considered wrong?

Side: No, not bigoted at all
0 points

No. You want people to denounce their religious belief because you like to suck cock?

That's being bigoted.

Side: No, not bigoted at all
1 point

It doesn't get any more logical than that, there is no rational defense for faggotry.

Side: No, not bigoted at all
-1 points

Every humanbeing has there very own personal feelings and beliefs! one person was brought up being taught that homosexuality is a sin and not to participate ,but other people were not brought up in this manner so they participate!? others were brought up being taught that its a sin, but rebelled against everything they were taught growing up?! As Americans we have the human & Gay rights to pratice such things as homosexuality! we have to simply choose do we participate or not?! Its all up to the person??!!

Side: No, not bigoted at all