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Debate Info

168
149
Yep Nope
Debate Score:317
Arguments:259
Total Votes:349
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 Yep (117)
 
 Nope (120)

Debate Creator

iLoveVersace(1098) pic



Is the Christian God evil?

Whatcha guys think? 

As some of you may know I don't think he is evil at all, but that's just me.

Yep

Side Score: 168
VS.

Nope

Side Score: 149

Yes

Side: Yep
1 point

What makes all of those actions evil, LittleMisfit? Can you go into detail on this? I would love to hear you argument.

Side: Nope
2 points

They match the definition of the word evil. Simple as that.

Side: Yep
Thejackster(517) Disputed
1 point

You know, for a "non-christian", you do seem to take heavy defense of the bible and christian principles. But anyway, evil can be judged by how an action affects society, other individuals, the environment, etc. If I kill someone, then I might be kiloing a productive member of society (hindering social progress), killing a parent (leaving their child(ren) parentless), ending the existance of another human being. I can use my conscience to put myself in another individuals shoes and know that I would not want the same to happen to me. Btw, there is no such thing as "religous morality", secular morality is all we have, religion only makes a claim to certain moral principles. If you read up on your science,myou will see that a ton of other species have their own set of moral principles, in the way they often fight to protect the well being if their own community.

Side: Yep
5 points

You god people believe to much. please vote !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://seriousbusiness.createdebate.com/ debate/show/should itbelegaltohavesexwithdogs#arg517436

Side: Yep
4 points

Samuel 15:3

"Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

In our modern age, it is hard to find a military or social leader that has ordered the above and not thought of as "Evil".

The old testament, specifically, is simply full of acts, edicts and other statements reminiscent of the type of statements from the worst of humanity.

Side: Yep
lolzors93(3225) Disputed
0 points

Do you not think that evil should be destroyed? Do you hate justice?

Side: Nope
Ramshutu(218) Clarified
1 point

My feelings about evil and justice have absolutely no bearing whatsoever on whether God is evil. In the same way that my personal feelings about speeding has absolutely no bearing on whether the Bugatti Veyron is the fastest road car in the world.

Side: Yep
hijodeganas(19) Disputed
1 point

A. Please explain to me how the babies of the town are evil?

B. Is evil justified by more evil?

Side: Yep
0 points

"Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

God was simply removing the evil from his world. That is in itself a Good deed.

Side: Nope
Ramshutu(218) Disputed
1 point

So the children and infants were all evil? This doesn't strike me as a particularly coherent argument to make.

Side: Yep
hijodeganas(19) Disputed
1 point

How is killing animals and babies - both of which have limited cognitive abilities - "removing evil"?

Side: Yep
4 points

It is accepted by most Christians that god created all there is.

It is also accepted by most Christians that those who do not believe in the correct god (the Christian god in the believers eyes) are doomed to spend an eternity in hell. If this were not true what would the be the good in proselytizing non believers if not to save their eternal souls?

Therefore the Christian god would have created billions of people geographically and culturally isolated from the words of his followers since the inception of Christianity, not to mention the near hundred thousand years homo-sapiens walked this earth before the Christian religion came to light, with no purpose other than to torture these unfortunate billions of souls at no fault of their own.

If any person were to do anything remotely similar like raising animals such as dogs for instance only to torture them people would find that person to be morally corrupt, sick in the head. The actions of torturing such animals has been attributed to actions of some serial killers in their childhoods. Many would argue that dogs are not comparable to humans and still the act would be atrocious in their eyes and to do something similar to humans would be a deeply unforgivable act that only someone who is without morals or evil would be capable of. Just as people may assume dogs are below people they can also assume people are below a god, and this will still not justify the actions to be just.

Side: Yep
3 points

As a quick addendum, I had a quick look:

Genesis 7:21-23, God sends a flood on the pretence that humans have become evil. Killing every child, newborn and foetus on the planet, even assuming every single grown up is so evil they deserve to die.

Exodus 12:29 God kills all the egyptian first born, who were undoubtedly innocent bystanders.

Numbers 16:41-49 the Israelites raise a complaint against god that he keeps killing many of them. He then gets angry and sends a plague to kill 14,000 more.

Joshua 6:20-21. God helps the israelites kill men, women, young and old in Jericho.

Deuteronomy 2:32-35: God orders the Israelites to kill the inhabitants of Heshbon, including all the children.

Deuteronomy 3:3-7 and the same in bashan

Numbers 31:7-18. Murder of all the midianites. The virgins are taken as spoils of war.

1 Samuel 6:19 god kills 50,000 people for curiously looking into a box.

Genesis 19:24. God kills everyone in sodom and Gomorrah (men, women and children). And lots wife for having the audacity of looking back at her burning home.

2 Kings 2:23-24: God sends bears to maul/"tear apart" 42 children.

This shows a consistent pattern of moral evil. If any single person did any of these acts, leave alone all of them, they would be considered evil by modern society.

Side: Yep
3 points

I feel like I have answered this many times before, but I guess I will again, If the Christian God exists with characteristics acording to the bible, then he:

1. Is A Mass Murderer:

-flooding the entire earth, killing the entire world population with the exception of one family for a mistake he made-Genesis 6:5 - 10:32

-Killed all first born Egyptian children-Exodus 12:29

-commanded the Israelites to slaughter the Almaeks-1 Samuel 15:2-3

-Demanded the genocides of various other nations and regions- (Numbers 31:17), (Deuteronomy 2:33-34), (Isaiah 13:15-18), etc.

Condones Murder:

- Homosexuals must be killed- Leviticus 20:13 NAB

- kill people who don't listen to priests- Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT

- kill children who disobey their parents- (Exodus 21:15 NAB), (Proverbs 20:20 NAB), (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

- kill witches- Exodus 22:17 NAB

- kill fortune tellers- Leviticus 20:27 NAB

- kill non Christians- Exodus 22:19 NAB

- kill non believers- 2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB

- if an entire town worships another god, then you must wipe them all out- Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT

- kill people who work on Sunday- Exodus 31:12-15 NLT

Views Women as inferior:

- Credits women as being responsible for all humankinds damnation and that a man should have dominion over woman- Genesis 3:16

- Instructions on how to sell your daughter into sex slavery- Exodus 21:7

- Men are allowed to take multiple wives (the same does not apply to women)- Exodus 21:10

- Says that women are born filthy and must be cleansed- Leviticus 12:1-8

- God places a dollar value on human life; with women worth less than men- Leviticus 27:3-7

- Women cannot make a vow unless their husband allows it- Leviticus 27:3-7

- Women who are not virgins, unless married, must be stoned to death- Deuteronomy 22:13-22

- encourages the rape of female citizens of enemy nations during wartime- Deuteronomy 20:13-15

- If a woman is raped in a populated area and doesn't cry out, then she must be killed- Deuteronomy 22:23-24

- If a woman is raped, she must marry her rapist- Deuteronomy 22:28-29

Condones Slavery:

- instructions on how to purchase and treat your slaves- Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT

- instructions on how to sell your own daughter into slavery- Exodus 21:7-11 NLT

- states its ok to beat your slaves as long as the slave survives the beating for at least two days- Exodus 21:20-21 NAB

- states that slaves must obey their masters as they would serve Christ- Ephesians 6:5 NLT

Need I go on?...

Side: Yep
lolzors93(3225) Disputed
2 points

1. Is A Mass Murderer:

Incorrect. Mass killer. How has God murdered here? Do you not think God, the judge of the universe, should destroy evil? Atheists are always complaining why there is evil in this world, but when God destroys some of it, they complain. Why? Because they hate God and everything He does, regardless of it being good.

Condones Murder:

How so? Is justice not a good thing? Should capital punishment be considered murder?

Views Women as inferior:

How so? You do realize that Genesis 3 is actually the man's fault, correct? 1 Timothy informs us that the woman was deceived, not the man. Hence, the man willingly let his wife be deceived. Eve was not the one who was there at the time of the command by God to not eat of the tree, which means that Adam was required, as the head of his home, to teach Eve. Did he do so properly? No. Many theologians say that this was the first sin, not the eating of the tree. Hence, man actually is to blame, not woman, though woman does share in the evil. Moreover, God in Genesis 1 and 2 establishes that woman was created under the category of "God's image", which is to say that man and woman are equal, though they have different roles; role is not equivalent to value.

Condones Slavery:

Is there a problem with slavery? We have the same form of slavery today. Its called community service......

Side: Nope
hijodeganas(19) Disputed
1 point

1. I see no evidence that God has "destroyed" evil anywhere outside of the stories of the bible. Why didn't God destroy Hitler before concentration camps murdered millions? Why not Stalin? What about the genocidal mania that goes on in certain parts of Africa or the Middle East? If a god exists who is so amoral in his choices, why would he have not even lifted a finger to stop those atrocities?

2. Some people would say yes. Some people would say there's a higher morality than "eye for an eye." Basic game theory dictates that that is a LOSING strategy.

3. This fails to address the way the bible states women's roles in other passages. It's a deflection.

4. Is there a problem with slavery? Are you serious?

Side: Yep
rexwilson(37) Disputed
1 point

Thejackster,

Your arguments are based on false representations of the Bible.

First you present the flood as an evil thing. But the story presents the flood as an act of justice toward injustice. Genesis 6 presented how humankind had lost its way, and how the flood was necessary to "reset" history. And it should be noted that the flood tarried for about a hundred years, allowing enough time for people to change their ways. Also there is the view of the angels birthing titans through earthly women and corrupting the world (Enoch described this in detail).

There is also the position that the flood was not worldwide, but regional, destroying an evil civilization.

The point is that God judged an evil generation. God has the ontological ground to judge evil and its perpetrators.

Second, on the killing of the first born sons of Egypt, you must remember that the Pharaoh of Egypt had ordered the genocide of Hebrew males many years before the plagues of Egypt. Pharaoh slaughtered many Hebrew males, of which Moses narrowly escaped, to maintain power over the Hebrews and keep them in perpetual slavery.

And remember that the Hebrews were slaves and untrained in war. Therefore the plagues were the necessary toward setting the Hebrews free from slavery.

How many lives were lost in America's civil war toward ending slavery? Will you argue that Lincoln was evil for fighting the war that cost many fathers their sons, to end slavery?

Pharoah could have yielded after the first plague and let the Hebrews go. But instead, he insisted on keeping the Hebrews in "chains." His evil toward the Hebrews cost his nation the first-born sons.

For further discussions on genocide, you may refer to [http://pastorrexiteke.com/2013/11/28/response-to-an-atheist/]

Third, Leviticus didn't call for the death of homosexuals, but those caught in the act of homosexual sex. This was to deter homosexual sex (and other sexual practices that were listed) from the public, not to persecute homosexuals.

Fourth, children were not killed simply for disobeying their parents. The text was referring to youths in their late teens and early adulthood who were a menace to society and bringing dishonor to their parents.

"Kill non-Christians"

Fifth, there were no Christians and non-Christians at the time.

"Kill people who work on Sunday"

Sixth, Sabbath was on Saturday. And Jesus challenged the legalism that became a burden to the Sabbath, saying that the Sabbath was intended for humankind, and not the reverse.

Seventh, Genesis 3: 16 apportioned punishment for sin to man and woman. Man gained dominion over woman, while he began to toil for his "daily bread."

On slavery, you may also refer to [http://pastorrexiteke.com/2013/12/23/the-bible-supported-slavery/]

Eighth, though men were allowed to take multiple wives, it was not so in the beginning. The formula for marriage in Genesis is that "two shall become one."

Ninth, The rape you purported actually referred to consensual sex. Don't be misled by the language. In that society where a woman's opinion was of little or no relevance, men "took" hold of women as desired. It was a woman's role to submit. Hence we are speaking of a man taking hold of a woman (as in wooing her and receiving her submission) and consensual sex thereafter.

Side: Nope
3 points

Eternal punishment for temporary sins, with the sinner given an unknown but surely brief amount of time to discover his/her creator's specific and arguably counter-intuitive rules and then believe them despite the fact that this belief frequently flies in the face of the strong reasoning ability said creator imbued the sinner with is a pretty dickish move. Especially since one of this sins is not believing and worshiping something that refuses to operate on the same logical principles that said sinner is forced (by the creator) to live in.

Side: Yep

Sending beings to an eternity of torture for not believing in you clearly is an immoral thing. So is flooding the world and killing almost everyone and everything on it.

Side: Yep
1 point

Sending beings to an eternity of torture for not believing in you clearly is an immoral thing.

Why?

So is flooding the world and killing almost everyone and everything on it.

Why?

Side: Nope

1. Inflicting endless torment on some one conventionally is immoral although not inherently.

2.So is killing some one.

Side: Nope
hijodeganas(19) Disputed
1 point

1. Torture brings about the pain and suffering of another, the very definition of immorality. In this case, it is ETERNAL.

2. Again, killing - generally speaking - is an immoral act.

Side: Yep
rexwilson(37) Disputed
1 point

God doesn't send anyone anywhere merely for not believing in Him. That is an outright lie!

"Belief" in the Bible is usually used in the context of complying. God therefore sends people to hell for not complying with Him in terms of the moral worth of their actions.

Faith without works is dead!

And the flooding took hundreds of years before coming to pass. That was plenty of time for the people at the time to change their minds. But they were hardened to God's mercy, the same way you have hardened yourself to His mercy.

Besides, if God made the world and it is his world, He has a say in His world and how it ought to be, and the option of starting over if He chose to. If God waited patiently for hundreds of years for wicked people to change, and they didn't, when He finally punished them, how can that be evil?

And we are not sure whether the entire planet was destroyed or a local civilization (as with Sodom and Gomorrah).

Side: Nope

Ya... religious people are delusional. You can give them the most rational argument ever but it still won't get though to their thick heads.

Side: Yep
4 points

This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. -1 John 1:5

Side: Nope
4 points

This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. -1 John 1:5

What goes through your head other than sheer denial when you read the arguments on the left?

Side: Yep
Srom(12197) Disputed
2 points

What goes through your head other than sheer denial when you read the arguments on the left?

Are you really that interested in wanting to know what I am thinking? I could honestly care less what people on the left think.

Plus no matter how many times I defend the faith. My point will never be driven across but at least I tried explaining things to others.

Side: Nope
2 points

It's not denial but false recognition. Any action that God makes is not inherently evil, but it can be extrinsically seen as good, bad, or neutral. All things follow along this path.

Side: Nope
2 points

I completley disagree, that does not in anyway validate the goodness of God. Darkness is the absence of light and darkness is only conceptuale which entails that darkness can not exist in anything, so that passage has no meaning.

Side: Nope
Srom(12197) Disputed
2 points

That verse has everything to do with how God isn't evil. Look at Satan for example he is of the darkness and he is evil. God is of the light and is good.

Side: Yep
Cartman(18192) Disputed
2 points

If God was evil, what would stop Him from lying to His subjects?

Side: Yep
Srom(12197) Disputed
2 points

What makes you think God is lying?

Side: Nope
hijodeganas(19) Disputed
2 points

That is the word that is supposedly coming from the source, why do you naively assume it is true?

Side: Yep
Srom(12197) Disputed
2 points

The evidence that I have researched that supports it.

Side: Nope
3 points

How can something that doesn't exist, be evil ?

Side: Nope
Avelle(40) Clarified
2 points

For all we know the debate name could be highlighting a name of a fictional character. It hasn't specified.

Side: Yep
Intangible(4933) Clarified
2 points

Duh.

Side: Yep

There is no good or evil, but only God .

Side: Nope
2 points

If Christians believe in a God that isn't evil, he must not be evil...

Side: Nope
2 points

First, there is no such thing as the Christian God. There is one God and He has revealed himself to our world through prophets and apostles. And everything we know of God verifies that God is holy. God is good and merciful.

Side: Nope
Jace(4706) Disputed
2 points

What are all the other gods then? What makes your god the god? Other than your subjective and distorted personal beliefs.

Everything we know of your God does not verify that God is holy, good, and merciful.

Side: Yep
rexwilson(37) Disputed
2 points

I'm not talking about gods of any religion. I'm talking about the ultimate God who has revealed Himself in time. There are objective arguments to conclude an ultimate God, so it is not my subjective and distorted belief.

"Everything we know of your God does not verify that God is holy, good, and merciful."

You don't know anything about God and therefore cannot reach that conclusion.

Side: Nope
2 points

they mean well but cant allways do well all religion has problems jews cant eat ham muslims blow stuff up

Side: Nope
2 points

There is no God. There is no evil. Which makes this question doubly negated.

God-lovers and evil-believers... bring it.

Side: Nope
2 points

While I'm not going to argue the God angle, I will argue the evil angle.

There most certainly is evil. A number of things are classified as evil- if there is a god, then ostensibly he classifies them as such. if there is no god, it is simply mankind that has classified them as such.

To say there is no evil is about as valid as to say there are no mammals, simply because they are human classifications rather than innate properties. You could say there is no such thing as economic class either with the same reasoning, and still be wrong.

Side: Yep
Jace(4706) Disputed
2 points

I should clarify that I do not think there is an objective God or an objective evil. They obviously exist as mental constructs; what I deny is that they exist beyond such human cognitive abstraction. If people ceased to believe they existed, they would not exist at all because they are not actual realities (only imagined realities). I will completely understand if this alters your response or interest in debating this matter; I should have been clear from the offset.

I do object to your comparing morality to mammals. It is not at all the same to say that there is no evil and to say that there are no mammals. Evil does not exist outside of the human imagination; mammals do (whatever they are called they still exist). It is also inaccurate to compare evil to economic class. The concept of the latter is derived from an actual objective reality whereas evil originates purely as a mental construct. Evil is an ascription of relative value (esp. moral) to that which otherwise lacks any innate value. Mammal is not a value ascription, but a technical description. The same is true of economic class.

Side: Nope
2 points

Unless we're talking in the realm of imagination...hypothetically.... then no God is not evil, because in order for God to be evil, God would first need to exist to do evil things. -shrug-

Side: Nope