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6
15
Religion will soon be extinct Religion will survive
Debate Score:21
Arguments:24
Total Votes:21
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 Religion will soon be extinct (6)
 
 Religion will survive (12)

Debate Creator

Arsenal(147) pic



Is the End near for the Church?

Just read me a report that in the USA, which is still the most religious developed country in the world, over half of young adults under 30 claim they are "spiritual but NOT religious." In Europe and the UK of course, fully two thirds of people that same age have been saying they same thing for years. Church attendance is down drastically among the young and the educated. Look yourself next time you go, where you will see very few if any people under 30, with the exception being youngsters who are being forced there with their parents.
 so is this another sign we are progressing and getting smarter in the world? we are smarter in everything else, like in science and technology and medicine, nutrition, what have you. so aren't we goin' the same way with religion, where we are seeing it to be the provence of the old, feeble, and the hoodwinked?

Religion will soon be extinct

Side Score: 6
VS.

Religion will survive

Side Score: 15
1 point

Religion will survive only in the fire of Hell where fools who said their is no God will curse and cry out to the very God they rejected when the realize they are rejected of him. Those tormented sinners will continue being religious thinking they have eared or can earn the right for their torments to end......but they can only be sinners and can only be forever turned against and away from God and they will remain in the lake of fire forever and their words won't be heard by those who live in the kingdom of heaven and their lusts and their words will rise forever in the smoke of their torments.

Side: Religion will soon be extinct
ironskillet(220) Disputed
1 point

Source?......................................................................

Side: Religion will survive
NowASaint(999) Disputed
1 point

Just wait and find out for yourself. The truth is the truth. If you don't believe it and you want proof, just wait and you will get your proof.

Side: Religion will soon be extinct
Gypsee(220) Clarified
1 point

Wait, so you believe that religion will NOT survive? I am shocked because it seems to be a rather defeatist point of view... Have you no hope?

Side: Religion will soon be extinct
NowASaint(999) Clarified
1 point

Try to understand the difference between trying to reach or appease God through religion and knowing Him in reality and understanding what He did to save us from Hell.

Religion is what people do thinking they are ensuring they have the right to remain outside of Hell forever.

When you know God through Jesus Christ, you are trusting what He did for you when He died in your place for your sins and rose bodily from the dead offering forgiveness to all who believe on Him and in repentance of their sin ask God for mercy that they can receive Jesus Christ personally in reality as He is, the only Savior.

Religion is what people do to try to keep themselves out of Hell and atheists are dogmatically religious the same as the most devout in any religion.

Biblical Christianity is knowing what God did for us to save us from Hell.

It's what you do (religion) or what God did, does, and will do for those who believe on the Savior and receive Him in reality.

Religion cannot save you. Only the Savior can save you. A day is coming when the religious (be they atheists or devout followers of whatever religion they think they can be good enough in to avoid Hell) will be forever separated from those whose sin is forgiven through faith in the sinless blood of the Holy One, the Lamb of God who died for them. Those who know God in reality trust in Him knowing He died for their sins and conquered death to deliver His people from it, to save them from Hell. Those who think being religious can earn them a "don't burn in Hell" card will find they were unable to earn what God will give those who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Side: Religion will soon be extinct
dadman(1421) Banned
1 point

Is the end near for the Church .... Indeed ... the Bible calls this the "catching away" 1 Thess 4:17

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In the rapture, the true Church of God is removed so they will not go through the trial that will come upon all the earth to try men's souls (they have no need to). Christ does not come back to take possession of the earth at that time. The rapture is just another phase of the first Resurrection that began with Jesus Christ. Jesus is the body of Christ and the true Church is also the body of Christ. The total membership making up the body of Christ must arise like Jesus to unite with Jesus. We must go before the bema seat judgment to be given the crowns that will allow us to rule and reign with Jesus when we return. If the rapture and second coming were at the same time you would have to make this judgment and the giving of the crowns an instantaneous event in the clouds at the second coming of Jesus. In the Jewish harvest, you have the first fruits, the general harvest and the gleaning. The harvest is not one event and neither is the resurrection of the saints. Revelation makes it clear that the 144,000 Israelites who have a ministry in the tribulation are still first fruits, so this would indicate that those in the true Church before the tribulation are also first fruits of this harvest.

There are well over a score of biblical passages that indicate that the return of Jesus for the Church is imminent. An imminent return is quite impossible if the tribulation has to happen first. Why would Jesus direct his people to be always ready and watching for His coming if they were meant to go through the tribulation and thus would be aware of His coming as much as seven years before He actually came?

The rapture of the faithful in contrast to the Revelation of Jesus at His coming

Christ comes for His own 1Th 4:13-18 --------------------Christ returns with His own Rev 19:14

Believers taken to Father's House Joh 14:3 ----------------Believers come with Jesus to Earth Mat 24:30

He is seen only by believers 1Co 15:52 --------------------Every eye will see Him Mat 24:30

Earth not judged -----------------------------------------------Earth judged Rev 20:4-5

A Mystery - 1 Co 15:51 --------------------------------------Foretold in OT Zech 12:10

Christians taken first 1Th 4:13-18 3 Mat 13:28-30 -------Wicked are taken first Mat 25:1-13; Rev 3:8-10; Rev 4:1,

He comes to present the Church to Himself 2 Co 11:2 ---He comes with His Church for judgement and to set up his Kingdom Rev 19:6-9, Zec 14:3-4; Jud 1:14-15; Rev 19:11-21

Casts Satan out of heaven to earth Rev 12 ------------------Binds Satan for a thousand years Rev 20

Occurs in the twinkling of an eye 1Co 15:52---------------Comes to earth to do battle at specific locations Isa 63:1-3, Rev 16:16, Zec 12:9-10

Jesus descends with a shout. 1Th 4:16 8 --------------------No shout mentioned Rev 19:11-21

Scriptural proofs that the rapture is pre-tribulation *

Proof #1: Revelation 19:11-21 doesn't mention a resurrection.

The rapture is a resurrection of those "in Christ" (1 Thess. 4:13-18). Isn't it a little bit odd that in Rev. 19:11-21, which is the clearest picture of the second coming of Christ, there is no mention of a resurrection? The rapture will be the biggest event since the resurrection of Jesus where hundreds of millions of Christians will be resurrected and translated, yet there isn't any mention here. Don't you think it deserves at least one verse? The rapture isn't mentioned because it doesn't happen at the second coming.

Proof #2: Zechariah 14:1-15 doesn't mention a resurrection.

This is an Old Testament picture of Jesus returning to earth at the second coming. Again, no mention of a resurrection.\

Proof #3: Two different pictures are painted.

In the Old Testament, there were two different pictures painted of the Messiah—one suffering (Isa. 53:2-10, Ps. 22:6-8, 11-18) and one reigning as King (Ps. 2:6-12, Zech. 14:9,16). As we look back on these scriptures, we see they predicted two separate comings of the Messiah—the 1st coming as a suffering Messiah and the 2nd coming (still future) as a reigning King.

In the New Testament, we have another picture added. Again, we have two pictures painted which don’t look the same. These two different descriptions of Jesus’ coming point to two separate events we call "the rapture" and "the second coming."

Proof #4: The Known Day and the Unknown Day.

Concerning the return of Jesus, the Bible presents a day we can't know and a day we can know. Matthew 25:13 says Jesus will return at an unknown time, while Revelation 12:6 says the Jews will have to wait 1,260 days for the Lord to return. The 1,260 days begins when the Antichrist stands in the Temple and declares himself to be God (Matt. 24:15-21, 2 Thess. 2:4) This event will take place at the mid-point of the seven year Tribulation (Dan 9:27). The Antichrist has authority to rule for 42 months, which is 1,260 days (Rev. 13:4) and will be destroyed by Jesus at His second coming (Rev. 19:20, 2 Thess. 2:8). The known and unknown days must happen at different times, meaning they are two separate events.

Proof #5: Holy ones are already with Jesus in heaven (Zech. 14:5, Rev. 19:14).

The armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, follow Jesus out of heaven at His second coming (Rev. 19:14, Zech. 14:5, Col. 3:4). These are not angels because Rev. 19:8 tells us the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints. In order to come out of heaven we first have to go in, indicating a previous rapture.

Proof #6: Kept from the hour of testing (Rev. 3:10).

Revelation 3:10 says we will be kept out of the hour of testing which will come upon the whole earth (the Tribulation). Some have wrongly believed "keep" means to keep through, or protect through the Tribulation. Suppose you approach a high voltage area with a sign that says, "Keep Out." Does that mean you can enter and be protected? No, it means you are forbidden from entering the area. But this verse also says He will keep us from the hour of testing. It is not just the testing, but the time period. If a student is excused from a test, he still may have to sit in the class while others take the test. But if he is excused from the hour of testing, he can go home. The Church will be called home before the hour of testing.

Proof #7: Angels don't resurrect people when they gather them for judgment.

When the angels are sent forth to gather the elect at the second coming (Matt. 24:29-31), some have wrongly interpreted this as the rapture. There is one huge problem with this interpretation. If we are resurrected at this time, why would we need angels to gather us? In the resurrection, we will be like the angels (Matt. 22:30), able to travel in the air at will. Obviously, these people who are gathered are not resurrected, therefore it can't be the rapture. No one would claim the wicked are raptured at this time, yet Matthew 13:39-41, 49 says the angels will not only gather the elect, but also the wicked. This gathering is not a resurrection.

Proof #8: Both wicked and righteous both can't be taken first.

First Thessalonians 4:13-17 says the righteous are taken and the wicked are left behind. Matthew 13:30, 49 says the wicked are taken first and righteous are left behind. This points to two separate events, the rapture and the second coming.

Proof #9: Jesus returns from the wedding.

When Jesus returns to earth at the second coming, He will return from a wedding (Luke 12:36). At the rapture, Jesus is married to His bride, the Church. After the wedding, He will return to earth.

Proof #10: Jesus will receive us to Himself, not us to receive Him (John 14:2-3).

Jesus said He would prepare a place for the Church in heaven, then He would come again to receive us to Himself. Why would Jesus prepare a place for us in heaven and then not take us there? At the rapture, He will come to receive us to Himself, "that where I am (heaven), there you may be also." If the rapture occurred at the same time as the second coming, we would go up to the clouds and then immediately come back to earth. That would contradict John 14:2-3.

Proof #11: The one who restrains is taken out of the way.

In 2 Thess. 2:6-7, Paul says "the one who restrains will be taken out of the way" before the Antichrist can be revealed. We believe this refers to the rapture because the Church is clearly the biggest obstacle to the Antichrist becoming a world ruler. This does not mean the Holy Spirit is completely gone from the earth, just the church, as it presents the biggest obstacle.

Proof #12: The separation of the sheep and goats (Matt. 25:31-46).

If the rapture occurred at the second coming, why would the sheep and the goats need to be separated immediately after the second coming? A rapture at the second coming would have already separated the sheep and the goats. With a Pre-Tribulation rapture, the people saved after the rapture will need to be separated after the second coming.

Proof #13: Who will populate the Millennium?

If the rapture occurs at the second coming and the wicked are cast into hell at that time, who will be left to populate the millennium? Only people in their natural (non-resurrected) bodies will be able to have children (Matt. 22:30). With a Pre-Tribulation rapture, the people saved after the rapture who are alive at the second coming will populate the earth during the Millennium

There are seven supernatural translation events in God's plan:

(God does many things in sevens - the number of completion.)

The seven supernatural translation events:

The translation of Enoch before the flood

The taking of Elijah in a whirlwind in the early times of Israel

The resurrection and ascension of Jesus

The rapture of the true Church

The resurrection and ascension of the two witnesses

The resurrection of the saints at the end of the great tribulation

The final resurrection and judgment after the thousand year reign

The ancient Jewish marriage ceremony proclaims a pretribulation rapture picture.

The groom goes to the bride's house and is betrothed to the bride (the faithful on the earth)

He pays the purchase price (his blood)

He returns to his father to prepare a place for the bride ("I go to prepare a place for you")

Later the groom comes for the bride (rapture)

He takes her to his father's house and gives her gifts where she is adorned and prepared for the wedding (judgment seat of Christ where crowns are awarded)

The wedding then takes place before the father and the witnesses (in the father's house)

The groom appears with his bride (second coming in glory with his saints)

Then the wedding feast takes place (on earth with invited guests of the bride and groom)

Jesus said it would be like in the time of Noah and Lot.

Fire destroyed Sodom the day Lot was led out by angels

The flood came after Noah entered the ark

God's wrath for the world in the future will come after the believers are removed.

Is the rapture of the Church in Old Testament scripture?

There are many hints in Old Testament scripture about God hiding his people during a time of judgment on the earth. Since it is clear that this has not happened yet, it is a future event:

Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

Psa 27:5 For in the day of trouble he will keep me secretly in his pavilion: In the covert of his tabernacle will he hide me: He will lift me up upon a rock.

Psa 50:5 Gather my saints together unto me, Those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.

Psa 58:9 Before your pots can feel the thorns, He will take them away with a whirlwind, the green and the burning alike.

Joe 2:16 gather the people, sanctify the assembly, assemble the old men, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts; let the bridegroom go forth from his chamber, and the bride out of their closet.

Zep 2:3 Seek ye Jehovah, all ye meek of the earth, that have kept his ordinances; seek righteousness, seek meekness; it may be ye will be hid in the day of Jehovah's anger.

Many will be saved in the tribulation

The scripture says all who endure to the end will be saved (all who hold on to the testimony of Jesus during the tribulation).

That word "all" should nullify any doctrine that says there will be no second chance of salvation for those who heard the gospel but were not part of the spiritual body of Christ before the rapture or tribulation. The passage clearly excludes no one and we see that true repentance leads to salvation throughout scripture.

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb, and because of the word of their testimony; and they loved not their life even unto death.

Side: Religion will soon be extinct
1 point

I find it rather telling that the local religious knobs have used this honest question of mine to vent anger and call me names and get personal and show us all just why it is so many are leaving the church. It's the self righteous ignorance and arrogance and stupidity. It's all the bloody cunts who like the idea of loving their neighbor because their Bible says to. But really most of the meanest and more unlikeable blokes I know are religious. So this forum has made me more sure that religion will soon go the way of searching for leprechauns and offering sacrifices.

Side: Religion will soon be extinct
outlaw60(7850) Disputed
1 point

How many Muslims are leaving the mosques there in the UK mate ?

Side: Religion will survive
Arsenal(147) Clarified
1 point

Mm...dunno. I don't have the stats for that, but I very much doubt that many are leaving on their own accord. This is why I'd like to see Parliament get off its arses and stop their immigration or enact some sort of law prohibiting them practicing Islam since its been a known tie to terrorism.

Side: Religion will soon be extinct
NowASaint(999) Disputed
1 point

Your question is not honest. Your question is anti-Christ rhetoric.

Side: Religion will survive
NowASaint(999) Clarified
1 point

Look how dirty you have to talk trying to forcefully express your weak mind. Typical atheist pervert.

Side: Religion will soon be extinct
1 point

The title question is not related to the two side of the argument. The church is the body of believers in whom Jesus Christ lives, His people who have received Him by faith as their Savior. There will be no end for the church. Jesus owns the church and it will never end. There is coming a day when the Lord shall call the church up out of the world to Himself and there will be no restraint against evil in the world for the next seven years while atheists try to destroy the world and each other. Then the Lord will return to the earth with ten thousands of His saints, His church, and will rule the world for 1000 years. The way things are going in the world today, it looks like the end of this world's evil way is near. It won't be long before atheists are nuking each other and Muslims are cheering for the global bloodbath they believe must happen to usher in their messiah.

People will always be religious if they do not know God in reality. Atheism is a religion in which a fool idolizes his own mind as god over his own life.

Side: Religion will soon be extinct
Arsenal(147) Disputed
1 point

In a time that is not so very far off religion will be looked back on as a archaic form of superstitions like bloodletting and fairies and elves. Those wankers who refuse to put away their old fables will be considered quite daft. I already see this happening in the UK.

Side: Religion will survive
NowASaint(999) Clarified
1 point

Your sin will take you to Hell if you have not secured God's pardon through faith in His blood which was shed for your sins on the cross, and you are not justified by the Living God in His resurrection. Jesus is the Savior, you won't be saved if you won't believe on what God did for you to save you from Hell when He died for your sins and rose from the dead to be the justifier of all who believe on Him.

It's good to know God will forever confine sin in the fire of Hell where it will be consumed and contained forever and I won't have to listen to foul mouth devil minded fools any more. I hope you realize you need to be saved, God is the Savior Jesus Christ who created you, and I hope you go to Heaven but it looks like you are bound and determined to try to prove God wrong, it looks like you will always be a proud and brave fool.

Side: Religion will soon be extinct
3 points

Do you think the Religion of Islam will not survive in the UK there mate ?

Side: Religion will survive
1 point

No, I rather feel that most of us Brits are right fed up with those daft Mooslim radicals and all the trouble they cause. It's one of the main reasons we opted to sod off from the EU with Brexit. So we already think most of the Muslims are off their conches and I bloody guarantee ya won't be seeing any new mosques in the UK. I m not taking a piss here either when I say that a lot of me mates are knackered with the Anglicans and the Episcopalian as well, so I just wonder if their days are bloody numbered.

Side: Religion will survive
outlaw60(7850) Disputed
1 point

You didn't answer the question. Any way you can explain that there mate ?

Side: Religion will soon be extinct
2 points

Much like cancer or the common cold, religion will persist.

Side: Religion will survive

Another bigot heard from. What a shock.... not.

The only reason that fewer young people are going to Church is because the Left wing media is made up of intolerant closed minded Progressvies bent on censoring any mention of our Christian heritage in public. They have been at war with Christianity in America for decades.

They have censored Christian symbols of nativity scenes on public land, that merely celebrated our historical Christian heritage in this nation. Talk about intolerant closed minded censors to diversity of thought. They do all this by twisting the establishment clause to fit their non inclusive ideology.

There are even idiots trying to change the names of Christmas trees.

They have used Holywood and sitcoms to ridicule and Judge and paint every Christian leader as being money grabbing fake phoneys.

Insecure Biogts can not stand anything that shines a ight on their irresponsible immoral lifestyles. This is why they so fear people simply expressing a faith at odds with this anything goes no fault culture.

What you call progress is beyond laughable. Our families are falling apart. Our welfare roles filled with unwed mothers. Our nation is going bankrupt with 19 TRILLION DOLLARS OF DEBT. You call that progress?

These so called intelligent young people coming out from their Progressive brainwashing in Colleges, have the moral values of animals. They sleep around like prostitues with little thought of getting pregnant , or getting someone else pregnant.

Fathers abandon their children for tax payers to support. Women simply kill their unborn babies so they can keep living the self love me me promiscuous lifestyles. These secular progressives have degraded to such a point, that they now support no restriction abortions of viable babies for any reason when voting for Democrats. You call that progress?

What you call progress, most intelligent people call debauchery.

Progressives like yourself are very insecure people who fear religious expression that speaks to irresponsible choices that are tearing our families apart. We have record numbers of chldren with no fathers at home. You call that Progress?

You are a bigot like so many bigots on the Left. You infer that not believing in God makes a person smarter. You infer that any person of faith has been hoodwinked.

Your's is the very arrogance from the elitist left that got Trump elected. There are millions of people (even Atheists) who see the close minded intolerance by the Left towards people of faith.

This is not what America stands for. It's sick we have people so blind as you to think this nation is moving in the more enlightened direction. LOL, there are fools born every day.

Just to let fools like yourself understand. Churches around this nation do many wonderful things to help the poor and those who can not help themselves. Fools like you would like to see those Churches dissapear, and replaced with corrupt politicians buying votes with unnafordable social programs.

Thankfully not all Atheists are as closed minded and intolerant of Christians as people like yourself.

Side: Religion will survive
1 point

Are you kidding me? People still persist in believing in stupid horoscope nonsense. There is no way absolutely everyone will abandon the church.

Side: Religion will survive
1 point

Religion will probably always survive, in one form or another. Will Christianity? I don't know. Possibly. But just like there are still people who follow the older faiths/religions, there will always be people who practice it in the future.

Side: Religion will survive
1 point

As long as people suffer the anxiety of the awareness of their own mortality there will be those who turn to religion. This doesn't necessarily imply a belief in a "theistic" God or God as "a being" who judges rather than God as "the ground of all being", to borrow from John Shelby Spong. The latter definition refers to concepts of God as consciousness, community, love and fullness of life. The more progressive (and seminal) views of compassion, tolerance and inclusivity will outlive the dogma and superstition that has corrupted religion for centuries. Literalist interpretations of miracles and magic will give way to metaphorical interpretations of religious texts. Even in Islam more progressive forms will take over. In many countries Sharia law is slowly being reformed and in others abolished altogether. It will take time, but religion will eventually be allowed to serve its intended purpose as a path to inner peace and enlightenment. As long as people seek these things, religion will be one of the methods employed to attain them.

Side: Religion will survive