Is there a problem with our conception on how to lead a good life?
|
We're living in illusions. There is no purpose in life and there is no way to actually "succeed" unless you are admitting that success is arbitrary. I say do what makes you happy, because when you die... that's it. Why would you waste your life on submitting to slavery just to get married and create kids who are going to do the same thing? I used to wonder that a lot, but after reading on Nietzsche, I see that this is all the outcome of "the herd." People need religion and leaders to indoctrinate them into a rules based society. Without it, they wouldn't be able to handle the reality of Nihilism. And they never will be able to. It's impossible. The Herd isn't a choice or slavery, it's inevitable and a fact of life. The amount of those who can fit in as an "Over-man" are very few. And this Over-man isn't someone who decides to be "Nihilist," and they're not the one who tries to use Nihilism as an excuse. It's the one who sees Nihilism as the only logical conclusion, but can see how others can't handle that truth. Still, today, I wrestle with how strongly Nihilist I am vs. how strongly Nihilist I'd like to be. Sometimes I think I take it too far, other times I feel that I'm not Nihilist enough. All this thinking about it, am I applying meaning to the very act of critical thinking? Probably not, because there's nothing I enjoy more than knowledge gathering and analysis. If I was heavily into football, as a Nihilist I'd probably not care if it's "just a game," but still know that it is. So how others think they should lead a good life is just how communities are. We see it with bees working for the hive, not questioning the authority of the hive and the role they themselves play and who they work to benefit, to them, working with others for the entire hive is good enough. They're not concerned with art or science, unless that science or art is just learning how things work so you can work for someone else (graphic designers working for a mall outlet or physicians in a hospital vs. a painter trying to capture despair or a scientist working on curing autism). It's not that their lives are insignificant, in fact, they are very significant... for the sake of working for others and keeping them going. you get a job as a surgeon at a hospital so that you can make money and support yourself, while feeling accomplished with your job. The quest for money is not purely greedy. Money itself is something that we all want, and there's nothing wrong with exploiting your talents for personal gain. Some of us see ourselves as ants in a hill and don't like it, try to break free from it all. But the problems is when we create resentment for those in society who don't feel the same way. It's an issue that plagues radicalism, because instead of coming to this understanding and trying to work around it, we try to reason based on the idea that people can view the world the same as the rest of us. We can't be against order and society, we just have to find ways to construct it so that society and order is not concrete and can not go to those who don't need it or aren't a threat to it. People like me 8) 1
point
"There is no purpose in life" Define purpose. "there is no way to actually "succeed" unless you are admitting that success is arbitrary." Then why do we all seek it in one form or another? "I say do what makes you happy, " Couldn't agree more, unfortunately I don;t believe most people do, but then again, I may be wrong. "Why would you waste your life on submitting to slavery just to get married and create kids who are going to do the same thing? " Because your programmed to by society, and in the end, a persons environment traps them in a prison of their own design. "I used to wonder that a lot, " Used to? "but after reading on Nietzsche, I see that this is all the outcome of "the herd." What exactly of Nietzsche's have you read? "People need religion and leaders to indoctrinate them into a rules based society." Why? "Without it, they wouldn't be able to handle the reality of Nihilism. " Why? "And they never will be able to. " Again, that's three absolutes with no rationale whatsoever, if you and I can handle the reality of Nihilism, why do you preclude the majority from being capable of handling its reality? "The Herd isn't a choice or slavery, it's inevitable and a fact of life. " There may have been a time in the distant past when you could point to groups people that constituted "the herd", and groups that constitute "the masters", in the sense that Nietzsche meant. Now, while it is true that these distinctions can still be made, in todays world it is far more accurate (I believe) to say that most people incorporate the slave and the master within them. "And this Over-man isn't someone who decides to be "Nihilist," and they're not the one who tries to use Nihilism as an excuse. " Nietzsche never advocated pure nihilism, that's what he sought to prevent. "All this thinking about it, am I applying meaning to the very act of critical thinking? " No. "because there's nothing I enjoy more than knowledge gathering and analysis." I can think of things that compare and even exceed in enjoyment value, but I agree completely. "The quest for money is not purely greedy. " Not purely, but in most cases it is the overriding factor. "Money itself is something that we all want, and there's nothing wrong with exploiting your talents for personal gain." Can you not envisage a world without the current monetary system? "Some of us see ourselves as ants in a hill and don't like it, try to break free from it all." Breaking free implies you were imprisoned to begin with. "But the problems is when we create resentment for those in society who don't feel the same way." Why is that a problem? "For them that must obey authority that they do not respect in any degree, who despise their jobs their destiny, speak jealously of them that are free, cultivate what they do to be nothing more than something they invest in." - Bob Dylan, It's alright ma, I'm only bleeding. "we try to reason based on the idea that people can view the world the same as the rest of us." I don;t reason that way, or at least I try hard not to, but admittedly, most do. "We can't be against order and society, we just have to find ways to construct it so that society and order is not concrete" I couldn't agree more if I tried. "can not go to those who don't need it or aren't a threat to it. " Insecure societies will always be threatened by what they cannot understand or assimilate. Define purpose. According to Dictionary.com, the first definition is "the reason for which something exists or is done, made, used, etc." Using that definition, I stand by my statement. Reason is determined solely by the individual, but it is not anymore real than the exact opposite of their reasoning. Then why do we all seek it in one form or another? To satisfy the self. Now, success could be satisfying the self, but once you're dead, that will no longer be the case. You've succeeded at your own goal for a short amount of time, and that accomplishment died along with you. What exactly of Nietzsche's have you read? Mainly on the dangers of collectivism, the importance of individualism, and the inevitability of the Over-man and the Herd. if you and I can handle the reality of Nihilism, why do you preclude the majority from being capable of handling its reality? I'm not sure if you and I actually do. We both hold things dear to us. We both have sense of morality, which is not Nihilism. but most people aren't us. believing they have the ability to do something that we can is just an assumption. My evidence is the existence of the herd. I suppose, though, that my use of words can be misleading. It's not exactly that the herd NEEDS these things. They just accept it and use it. There is an inability for them to let go of religion, collectivism, and culture. It is a part of society, in a sense. However, this doesn't mean that it's "needed," but that it's there and will stay there for some time. There may have been a time in the distant past when you could point to groups people that constituted "the herd", and groups that constitute "the masters", in the sense that Nietzsche meant. Governments are seen by people as providing them with services and security and they give up freedom for it. We constantly choose between Democrat and Republican because both of them want government to be large enough to continue to provide for us. We want to be provided for, and this increases our dependency. government is our master, and society, mostly, gives into that. Now, we have a growing Libertarian movement, but a lot of those people within that movement are very moderate in their views and do not embrace the full scope of limited government and independence. The Churches offer a spiritual and philosophical dependence to people. and many Atheists replace churches with big government (the neo-liberal Atheists that reject small government). Instead of putting their faith in God, they put their faith in government. Faith makes it easier for people to believe that their lives are safe and secure and can be FIXED with submitting themselves to a higher power (be it God or Government). And, of course, the big corporations that provide us with jobs, benefits, and pensions. all we have to do is work for their goals. As the corporation becomes larger, we become more secure and less concerned with pursuing our own goals, for our lives are provided for. We can just get married and have children and give them food and supplies. No reason to become independent, for the corporation gives us what we want. But only if it's big enough to make us feel secure. Small business isn't stable, and it's a threat to our security (and this is why we give government such ability to hurt small business, which benefits the largest corporations). Nietzsche never advocated pure nihilism, that's what he sought to prevent. It makes sense, because Nihilism, purely, isn't championed by those who hold a moral code of individualism (where the rights of the individual to life and property can not be infringed upon), for a true Nihilist would work solely to satisfy thyself with no regard to the rights of others. A rare character, but existent. I can think of things that compare and even exceed in enjoyment value I suppose for me it would be MDMA. Can you not envisage a world without the current monetary system? My political beliefs make me against the monetary system. However, even if we went all the way back to bartering, we would still be working for and exploiting our talents for self-profit. be it gold or goods. Breaking free implies you were imprisoned to begin with. Culture and society, education requirements and everything that society has required us to do is a bit of imprisonment. If we don't go to college, our chances of living a comfortable life goes down. Not that we can't, but pressure from such loved ones as well as our upbringing and education is all indoctrination to believe that we must follow a specific path to be successful or even happy. It is not that we are "forced," per say, but we are held back from being true individuals. It takes effort just to get past what is expected of us. Although, I go to college... but that's because I love it. Many others don't (and are chastised for it). Why is that a problem? Because it is their choice to live the same way as everyone else. They may not be as smart and maybe just aren't enough to be above society. They don't have to be, and to treat them like they do, to me, is doing exactly what I hate authoritarians for. Authoritarians making demands of me to live a certain way is as bad as making demands to others to not live under authoritarians. Many are happy that way, and that's fine. So long as I am not expected to do the same, which is the philosophical goal that I'd hope for these next generations. Accept the herd, but accept those who are not in it as well. Really, just accept everyone. I don;t reason that way, and I'd expect you to realize the problem with thinking that others can be just as Atheist, Nihilist, and anti-collectivist as you or me (if you are actually anti-collectivist). 1
point
1
point
Work. Hmm yeah we all need to work, or else this society will plummet to hell. Without that lady who cleans up the toilets, who knows what unspeakable stenches will poison the air. Buy. Yea we need to buy stuff I guess. Supplies are not unlimited you know. You can't just take all the food for free, you better earn it. If everything were free, we'd be broke on supplies of food. And buying stuff is all the more a good way to get our mind set on maintaining society. We cannot build homes if we don't have people who are willing to work and build for us, and we cannot make them build unless there is a suitable reward for their work. That's why there's money. Consume. Saying the word "consume" may be a slight stretch. Watching television is actually enjoyable. It gives you something to look at instead of a wall. And food, we all need food. But do you remember the time you and your friends went to the movies? How about when you decided to go to a theme park? Consumption is enjoyable sometimes you know, but it shouldn't be the defining word for life. Hanging out with your friends, doing your favorite hobbies. Sky diving, bungee jumping, travelling overseas. Having fun. The word "consumption" doesn't cover these things in life. I think you must of missed out a word; Live. Die. Yep, we all die. No one can stop it, but at least you could prevent it... slightly. Just eat a healthy diet and keep fit in the "Consume" part, and you may live longer. 1
point
I think so long as you like (or at least don't hate) your job, take pleasure in the act of buying/consuming things, and enjoy what life you have until you die or some variation of those things, you've lived a good life. Trapped in society or no, I concern myself more with enjoying things as they happen; with a few notable exceptions, I could probably learn to be happy in the US prison system. Learning to be happy in open society is much easier, i believe, though I've never been incarcerated so i cant say for sure. It all just seems terribly subjective to me. You can settle on what you have and be happy with that, you can want for more and strive to better your situation, or you can be endlessly frustrated with what life has presented you, give up, and thrown in the towel. I think you can find happiness, or a "good life" in all of these, and more, but that doesn't mean that anyone else will agree with your version of the good life. |
