Debate Info

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No Yes
Debate Score:100
Arguments:46
Total Votes:138
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 yes a mixed economy (6)
 
 yes (4)
 
 No (3)

Debate Creator

geoff(721) pic



Is there anything better than capitalism?

More prosperity for more people.

No

Side Score: 49
VS.

Yes

Side Score: 51
Vote Up Vote Down
5 points

Nothing is better than capitalism. Those that work hard get rewarded and those that are lazy don't. It's been proven throughout the years that people are only motivated if they have a compelling reason to be so. In a communist society where everyone is equal an noone is incentivized to work hard nothing gets done, ambition and creativity are stifled, and no progress is made.

567 days ago
- Blacklaser(54) Disputed
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5 points

Does it always have to be either or? Unchecked capitalism is not as great as it sounds since opportunities for people are not equal. Someone born to a poor family will never have the same opportunities as those born to rich families, they won't be able to afford the same quality education and thus won't be able to get the better jobs. This in turns means less health care and so on, resulting in further loss of opportunities for their children. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer, not because they are lazy but because of the system. Someone born into a poor family needs to work many many times harder to achieve the same as someone born to a rich family. Unchecked capitalism promotes greed and a class society where only a very few people can break out of what they have been born into, it is possible yes, but it is not within reasonable reach of the general population.

Full-fledged communism of course has a lot of problems of its own, but I think it doesn't have to be either or. The best solution is to combine the best ideas from both systems: The society should handle the basic needs of everyone within it at the same level: food, basic shelter, education, health care,... This provides everyone with an equal 'starting point', meaning the same opportunities, no matter how their parents fared in life. Once that basic framework is in place, everyone can chose whether to work hard or be lazy and be rewarded accordingly.

565 days ago
- Loudacris(899) Supported
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4 points

Excellent argument, Blacklater. Very lucid, I totally agree. The solution is to strike somewhat of a middle ground between individualism and collectivism (with individualism getting the edge).

564 days ago
- DebateMan(443) Disputed
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1 point  

No, it doesn't have to be "either or". I think there are some instances where some socialist ideals are warranted. However, I primarily think that communism and socialism is for people who are too lazy to take care of themself and improve their lives, so they want the government to intervene and do it for them.

556 days ago
- Semantix(20) Supported
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0 points

Agreed. Pure capitalism is basically corporate rule or oligarchy, and pure communism is generally in practice a dictatorship (although PURE communism in theory would not be). Personal liberty can be best achieved from a common starting point provided by the collective, and allowing for the individual to earn as much "property" or "wealth" as they see fit.

561 days ago
- JelloBiafMan(4) Disputed
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1 point  

I have a question for you, what gets done with capitalism. Apart from technological advances in unnecassary luxuries the only real progress done is by the Government which is a completely seperate entity. In a communist society where everyone is equal they do things for the good of society as a whole, not just for themselves, therefore eliminating laziness. Most people in America, for instance, do not do things for the good of others but for their own selfish benefit.

Togetherness promotes ambition, it doesnt stifle it, and just because creativity isnt rewarded doesnt mean it's stifled it just means that people do it out of love for art, therefore in its purest form.

410 days ago | Tagged As: yes
- THEDert(199) Supported
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0 points

No one can argue with your statement my friend!

567 days ago
- Blacklaser(54) Disputed
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0 points

I just did.

565 days ago
- weakonomist(10) Supported
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-1 points

Bingo!!

556 days ago
Vote Up Vote Down
3 points

There are numerous examples of why capitalism wins out over any other economic system. Plenty of people argue that in capitalism there is less equality in opportunity but that simply is not true. In fact in many ways completely unregulated capitalism provides the most equality in opportunity, why? Because the only thing that keeps a person from being successful is their own lack of ambition and or education; and education really isn't that essential to success look at Bill Gates for an example.

History has shown us that capitalism allows for the most innovation in all fields. Humans in general have a drive to constantly improve and in many cases to improve their own situation in any way possible. Communism has of course been shown to be inviable for this very reason, there are little or now incentives to excel in a communist system. Socialism then is simply diluted communism, it's a good idea in theory but it goes against human nature in many ways.

But this is all in a Western perspective. Different cultures have different ingrained values. For Westerners, capitalism works best collectivism simply goes against the grain for most westerners.

561 days ago
- Zeitgeist(18) Disputed
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1 point  

1. Capitalism is the "best" (most progressive) economic system TO DATE.

2. It is not true that capitalism provides freedom. Your statement is total idealism. Real men have real material needs and so long as these needs require satisfaction for a continued life and existence, men have no choice in their need to work and eat and breath.

I am a wage slave. I don't willingly give up the product of my labour to my employer but i am forced to by the power of capital that he exerts over myself. Further, I am not even compensated the whole value of my product, rather it is appropriated from me. I am alienated by this process from my product, from my life activity and from my fellow man.

3. You say that capitalism allows innovation. This is because of a failed understanding of real human needs, a by-product of your idealism. Advancement and innovation in the means of production, in technology and in living conditions is not a result of the profit motive, rather it is the product of man's life activity, his labour and it's ability to satisfy his real needs. Why else did we see advancement in the age of the hunter-gatherer, or in the age of the feudal aristocrat?

The manifestation of the incentive to invent in the form of the profit motive is simply a result of the self-alienation experienced by man in the capitalist mode of production.

4. Socialism is not diluted communism, read a book you philistine.

557 days ago
- pvtNobody(630) Disputed
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2 points

If we want to talk about idealism lets take this whole debate to the next level then, shall we. In an ideal world we wouldn't need money, we wouldn't need government. Everyone would have exactly what they needed and want nothing more. There would be no greed and thus no crime. That, is neither capitalism nor socialism. By the way, socialism is diluted communism. The basic foundations of the two systems are the same, Marx. But Marx is very clear when he says that you go all the way or none. Socialism has the same basic goal in mind as Communism, that is that the individual should work for the greater good of the group. So yes, socialism is a less radical form of communism.

556 days ago
- JelloBiafMan(4) Disputed
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1 point  

The way you use innovation is subjective, we have not made any REAL advances. Communism would take a generation or two but the final outcome would be incredible. With people given a principle understanding of society and a love of society, they can, and will be motivated to advance.

410 days ago | Tagged As: yes
- ta9798(268) Disputed
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0 points

I don't agree that capitalism is the best but you bring up a good point that i'm glad you make and that is of perspective.

the West is prone to think that capitalism is the best since society is run in a way that the system is ingrained in our minds. But for some Socialism is the best because it stresses community over individuals and that is what several people in the East think.

Socialism does look good on paper and with the right people it would work. We just need to let it flourish. Capitalism was allowed to grow, so let us let Socialism grow. For a truly socialist nation has yet to exist yet it can be said that pure capitalism has yet existed as well.

"Different strokes for different folks"

561 days ago
- DebateMan(443) Disputed
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1 point  

"Socialism is the best because it stresses community over individuals"- exactly my point. Those that want communism or socialism only want it because they are too lazy to work hard and make a better life for themselves.

They would rather "let the community take care of me" then have the motivation, determination, and drive to make a better life for them and their family.

556 days ago
- Blacklaser(54) Disputed
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0 points

I would venture to say that history has proven you wrong: 19th century Europe. Completely unregulated capitalism leads to class society with a small portion of the society holding all the wealth and preventing any opportunity to the others. The largest part of the population working 12+ hours a day in horrible conditions just to be able to afford the next meal.

Education is a determining factor in success in today's society, people who can't afford to get a quality education have a much harder time to break out of whatever they are born into. The opportunities are NOT equal at all. As I've mentioned before, just because a few individuals are lucky enough do achieve success under those conditions does not mean it is within reach of the general population. Taking your example of Bill Gates, had he not been lucky enough to have access to a computer, which was by no means common back then, he would not be who he is today.

Communism has failed largely because of corrupt government, not because the inherent flaws of the system.

556 days ago
- JelloBiafMan(4) Supported
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1 point  

nicely put, I would like to commend you on your prediction on what others would say with your last statement.

410 days ago | Tagged As: No
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1 point  

It completely depends on what your definition of capitalism is, but i do believe that when executed properly capitalism is the best kind of society.

Let me first state that a system which is perfect is an utopia, so there will always be flaws. But if capitalism would be executed properly it would be a society in which everyone has equal rights which inevitably leads to equal opportunities. I believe these are the basic principles upon which society should function.

So, no there is nothing better than capitalism.

351 days ago | Tagged As: No
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1 point  

All arguments put aside there is nothing better than capitalism with everyones elaborate rational of what the perfect system is there isn't any , capitalism comes down to the most free and less incumbersome system on it's people. If I buy a widget for $10 and somebody wants to buy it from me for $15 whats wrong with that? The freedom and the responsibility of choices is between the seller and buyer.

73 days ago | Tagged As: No
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0 points

Sure socialism sounds good, but can it be implemented?

Implementing socialism is almost like implementing a law that forbids people to lie. It would be nice but it just won't work.

255 days ago | Tagged As: No
- MisterGuy(2) Disputed
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1 point  

"Sure socialism sounds good, but can it be implemented?"

You really need to look around. There are social democratic democracies all over the place!

20 days ago | Tagged As: yes a mixed economy
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5 points

Social Capitalism. Capitalism is good because it helps allocate scarce resources, but it tends towards monopolies and concentrations of power or money. Mixing in ideas from Socialism and providing services for people help level the playing field a bit and make lower income people less poor by providing the necessities of life - food, shelter, and medical care. Does a private yacht mean as much to a rich man as a years worth of food to 100 poor?

568 days ago
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5 points

In terms of making money i think capitalism is the best of any form that we have followed but at what cost?

Socialism is a system were the focus isn't on the individual attainment of wealth but of the collective attainment of wealth. In socialism all of society suffers or non of society suffers. We are told by capitalists that all socialist nations suffer but is that the fault of socialism or of capitalism?

Capitalistic nations such as America do all in their power to undermine and dismantle non-capitalistic nations. Socialism is a system that tries to better the conditions for all in society where the human is more important than the corporation.

Capitalism cares nothing for living things, it's only goal is to obtain wealth as quickly as possible, the suffering that it causes is of no concern unless it costs money.

If we allowed a socialist nation to properly flourish and grow without the economic restrictions capitalistic nations put on those countries we could see that socialism is truly the best system that we know of to better society because in the end your should live your life for you and what you want to do, not to to work and create more money.

561 days ago
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3 points

Capitalism and Socialism in a pure environment are both a horrible idea. The best sort of economic model is one which blends the two together to ensure that everyone is treated fairly while maintaining equal opportunity and equal justice.

556 days ago
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2 points

State-financed police protection is superior to unadulterated capitalism because it protects human life better than the free market.

567 days ago
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2 points

How to we define better?

I refuse to use wishy-washing short-sighted humanist ideas of equality and humanity.

Man can no more choose his particular mode of production more than he can choose the weather.

Capitalism, like all class based societies sows the seeds of it's destruction in the oppressed classes. This is why capitalism is today moving ever closer to it's revolutionary destruction.

Socialism is the new revolutionary mode of production, "destined" to overtake capitalism, just a capitalism overtook feudalism.

We can no more combine the best of both worlds, more than we can combine absolute monarchy and liberal democracy. They represent real historical stages and not theories floating in the realm of ideas ripe for the piping and applicable where desired

557 days ago
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2 points

Capitalism = Every man for himself. F*ck everybody else. It is the highest form of greed.

73 days ago | Tagged As: yes
- MisterGuy(2) Supported
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1 point  

Very well said...greed is at the center of pure capitalism, and that kind of feeling does not always need to be a part of human nature.

17 days ago | Tagged As: yes a mixed economy
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1 point  

I don't know what it is but I do think there's something better. We just need to keep improving what we have. Whether we are moving forwards is up for debate, maybe we'll never reach it, maybe we will.

563 days ago
- geoff(721) Supported
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0 points

It may be true that the capitalist concept best mirrors human nature but I believe we will change with better education and the pressure of dwindling resources driving the revolution.

561 days ago
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1 point  

not invented yet

562 days ago
- Loudacris(899) Disputed
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1 point  

Was capitalism really "invented"?

562 days ago
- MisterGuy(2) Disputed
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1 point  

Yes, the "free market" is a total human invention. It is NOT a law of nature at all.

20 days ago | Tagged As: yes a mixed economy
- MisterGuy(2) Disputed
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1 point  

Sure there has, and it's called a mixed economy. Look it up sometime...I'll bet that you live in one right now and don't even know it. ;)

20 days ago | Tagged As: yes a mixed economy
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1 point  

The cycle in capitalism, unfortunately, is that the rich do get richer and more powerful, while the poor get poorer. On a primal level, survival is being able to provide food, shelter, and water. In our more advanced society, survival is getting money in order to provide food, shelter and water. Money, thus, is what keeps us alive.

The incentive for a business is provide in-demand quality goods & services at a price that will net the most money. This means there is an incentive to cut costs, both in the production process as well as the wages of the workforce. It is these companies that succeed and go on to expand, thus crushing their competition. The streamlining of processes and the advancement of technology aren't bad things for society or for business, but it does not take into account, the individual human being.

What is good for a large corporation's stock quote, isn't always good for everyone. When these companies become this large, we become dependent upon them for goods, services, as well as employment. What happens naturally is that as a few corporate giants emerge, the competition disappears. Businesses or individuals just starting up will find it impossible to match prices with a large corporation that has a huge overhead and an elaborate system already in place. Unfortunately, what happens is that the top executives & upper management are the ones that benefit and there is no incentive to share the wealth with the working class.

Now there will be some that say these lower positions don't deserve the higher pay because what they do isn't important enough or isn't hard enough. But one must keep in mind that they are in fact contributing to the overall success of that company. They may be working 40 hours a week, and that should enable them to a decent paycheck. They shouldn't have to worry about, at the very least, the necessities of life (food, shelter, & the transportation to and from work). What is happening today, is that the typical CEO is making more in bonuses than what any working class person would make in several lifetimes. The very thing that makes Capitalism work, is destroying it; greed.

With the money that these executives make, they are then able to also control and influence our government. Lobbying should be made illegal. Money should not be an influencing factor in creating laws and creating tax breaks for the rich. The system is not broken....this is the system!!

What we need, is a new system. It is my belief that Capitalism works in theory, when everyone begins at the same starting point. It would be similar to a poker game in which four friends have bought in for $20 worth of chips, and then some other guy sits down and buys in for $1000 worth of chips. That guy with a $1000 worth of chips is going to bully the other four around and will easily dominate the game. Now, it may be that one of the others is still able to play his cards correctly and win a few hands, but the risk is much less for that man with a $1000. He can afford to play every hand. Those of you that do play poker know how much easier it is to win when you have the chip lead.

That being said, we need a system that is independent of how much wealth you have to start with. It should be one that allows everyone equal opportunities for education, health care, and basic necessities. Money should not be able to influence the governing bodies that dictate our laws. Government should be run by the people, for the people; all people. The system should reward those that work the hardest and that strive to do the right thing. Today, too many things go unregulated and because of it, many industries (including government) have become corrupt. We must not look at government regulation as a negative thing, but rather, an agency that is there to protect the consumer and the well-being of all. Of course, it isn't like that today, but it should be.

I'd like to think that this would be possible, but I'm afraid that we are already set on a course. It is too late to just revamp government all together. I feel like it just needs to be tweaked. It will take time, and the right individuals in power for these changes to come about. Or maybe, just maybe, it could happen if people rallied together and demanded change. What will you do to make the world a better place?

351 days ago | Tagged As: alternatives to capitalism

Okay, this is a falacy, but here it goes. We must first accept that capitalism is better than anything else we've tried, since if anything we have is better we would use it. However, we are not at the end of time, so logically, there must be something better, that subsequently follows. That is, if we are to continue to grow and evolve. Now rip it apart.

563 days ago
- Semantix(20) Disputed
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2 points

I think I see what your saying, but you presuppose the notion that man always does whats best for him, which I dont believe is the case.

For example, the government of Greece was a partial democracy, and afterwards the whole of Europe went under monarchistic rule (the dark ages) This shows a nonlinear progression of government types, a "devolution" if you will from democracy (commonly considered a better form of government) to monarchy (commonly considered an inferior or unfair form of government)

I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, I think, but not the idea that what we have at any given time is the best we know of. In fact, there are some who believe tribal government (i.e. the government and economic systems of the Native Americans or African tribes) is the best sort of government: Collective property, social punishment for crime (exile or banishment) and rule by the elders.

561 days ago
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0 points

Sonny, capitalism is the greatest thing in the world. Except for a nice MLT, a mutton, lettuce and tomato sandwich, where the mutton is nice and lean and the tomato is ripe. They're so perky, I'll buy that.

554 days ago
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0 points

yes........A dictatorship with me as the ruler.

315 days ago | Tagged As: yes
- MisterGuy(2) Disputed
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1 point  

Really...is THIS the best that you can do in this debate. I hope not...

20 days ago | Tagged As: yes a mixed economy
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