CreateDebate


Debate Info

19
34
Yes No
Debate Score:53
Arguments:45
Total Votes:54
More Stats

Argument Ratio

side graph
 
 Yes (16)
 
 No (27)

Debate Creator

user554random(1175) pic



Is there free will in heaven?

I've frequently heard many christians argue that the reason that evil exists is because of free will.  God must give us the choice to do evil, for this is what preserves free will.  The ability to choose good or evil.  

So my question is:  Is there free will in heaven?  

If yes, then evil should be possible there.  And unless God somehow changes our nature, why wouldn't we continue doing "minor" sins here and there?  Just as we do on earth.  

If no, does the deprivation of free will bother you at all?  

Yes

Side Score: 19
VS.

No

Side Score: 34

Yes. According to Christian theology and biblical studies. After the millennial reign and Satan comes back again and gets defeated once more the curse of sin and death is lifted. Therefore you will be like Adam and Eve before Eve ate the fruit. Completely sinless and perfect. Therefore you would, with past knowledge of good and evil, not want to sin or do bad. You would use your free will for benevolence. This is just what I have learned from studies. Still isn't convincing.

Side: Yes
2 points

Therefore you will be like Adam and Eve before Eve ate the fruit. Completely sinless and perfect. Therefore you would, with past knowledge of good and evil, not want to sin or do bad. You would use your free will for benevolence.

But would I be capable of sin? Either intentionally or accidentally?

Side: No
1 point

Yep. Sin wouldnt have a place though. So you primarily wouldn't even have an accident. Nothing could make you have an accident. It is supposed to be complete perfection. Intentionally yes. It would be like sticking your face in poop though because you would not even want to. It would be highly revolting.

Side: No
AveSatanas(4443) Disputed
2 points

I dispute that based on "biblical studies" notion.

God knew from "day one" that adam and eve would eat from the tree and that by doing that everything evil would happen and billions of souls will go to heaven if he puts the tree where he did HERE (lets say)

But he ALSO knew that if he put the tree HERE (different location) they WOULDNT eat from it and nobody would go to hell, ect.

So him knowing this, placed the tree where he did HERE to create the chain of events that it did. So he really stripped Eve of her free will by putting it where he did.

ALSO if were talking quoting the bible lets look at the Exodus (for one). Moses is told by god to get the Isrealites out of Egypt and to talk to Pharoh. BUT god tells moses that he will "harden phoarohs heart and he will not listen to you".

God directly manipulates phoarohs free will because he does harden his heart so that moses has an excuse to put the plagues on Egypt.

We can guess that if god hadnt done that then phoaroh would have let them leave because god apparently had to do it!

And my third example:

Hell. the fact that hell exists and we "know" hell exists is totally messing with free will. Its a fear factor pushing us into believing. I used this analogy with Srom:

Lets say i take you Lizzy and strap you to a chair by the waist so you cant leave. Then i hand you and apple. I tell you "Lizzie, you can eat this apple if you want to or not, its up to you". Then i take out a gun and put it to your temple and add "but if you dont eat it ill blow your head off. But its your choice :)" The apple being belief in god/heaven and the gun being hell and me being god. Thats what hell is.

So in this scenario you dont really have free will if youre not insane.

These are just a couple examples of god fucking up the free will thing. its an illusion in a world where there is an omniscient god. impossible

Side: No
7thDebater(294) Disputed
1 point

That analogy you used is bad and wrong. Also, the question asked is, is there free will IN HEAVEN. Your points are about free will in general, while this debate is about free will In Heaven.

Side: Yes
Quocalimar(6470) Disputed
1 point

Therefore you would, with past knowledge of good and evil, not want to sin or do bad.

That's insinuating people are perfect and would already want to be benevolent. I highly doubt anyone wants to be 'evil' it's just something that happens. Hitler wasn't hellbent on being the most hated person in the world, he just believed in his cause, no one could change that, not even knowing that everyone would be against his cause.

We already have past knowledge of our evil, as for the religious people that's the bible, and for the non religious we have history and textbooks. Yet we still do evil, albeit not thinking it's evil, so what's making us do evil, or making some of us not do evil? That's a real question for you.

Side: No
1 point

Hopefully you do know the answer is you. Literally free will is all I have to say. What makes you do evil? You. What makes you do good? You. What Hitler did was legal. He knew what he did was wrong even though it was legal. This simply cannot be a real question.

That's insinuating people are perfect and would already want to be benevolent. 

That is exactly what happens. So what are you trying to say?

Side: Yes
1 point

Yes, and no. A system that is both linear and circular would allow for free will as long as you don't know the future.

Side: Yes
1 point

There will be free will however people will have no reason to be evil and there is no evil in heaven. In regards to the "minor mistakes/sins" thing that the debate description said, there will be no scenarios that put us in positions to make mistakes. Heaven is Perfect.

Side: Yes
1 point

"If yes, then evil should be possible there. And unless God somehow changes our nature, why wouldn't we continue doing "minor" sins here and there? Just as we do on earth. "

In heaven we will be in our purest form. We will not have evil inside of us. Also, earth is not like heaven b/c there are situations on earth that would not happen in heaven.

Side: Yes

If no, does the deprivation of free will bother you at all?

No. Free will doesn't even exist anyway.

Side: No
1 point

This debate is assuming God exists, as well as the following paragraph:

I've frequently heard many christians argue that the reason that evil exists is because of free will. God must give us the choice to do evil, for this is what preserves free will. The ability to choose good or evil.

Side: Yes

An omnipotent God and free will negate one another.

Side: No

No way. If he truly believes that heaven will be heavenly, and his rules will be followed with absolute certainty, and no one will kill, and no one will even need to repent, everyone has to be under his control.

If free will even does exist here on Earth, people down here are only good by choice. They could at any time get bored with those good choices and do something worth repenting for, yet in Heaven there is no repentance you've already made up for your sins so now all there is to do is live a good life sin free.

Who's to say you won't get bored up there eventually, for all of eternity I might add, and just decide to do something to cause a little something new. Like maybe go beat up your neighbor, or set a fire, maybe you want to partake in some mixed martial arts, I don't know, whatever it is. The only thing preventing you from doing it, and being casted into hell after already getting into Heaven and making someone else's perfect Heaven not so perfect, is a lack of free will.

Heaven can't be perfect so long as free will exists.

Side: No
1 point

How the hell are we supposed to know that? ... Seriously, it's hard enough to ration out an afterlife let alone be thinking of a free will in heaven. What if this existence was supposed to be heaven but, is now being corrupted by the very entities that have been passively named as demons? ... and because the corruption is so strong, you may even have begun to enjoy it.

Since, I am not free here because of other people; I doubt for those same reasons that heaven could be any different. Hypothetically if it exists.

Also, I believe more so that there is no sin and sinning + the surprise butt sex you can be expecting in hell by fiery hot pitchforks was just a clever device used centuries ago to scare people into being civil. Not, that people who claim to be followers of the doctrine have ANY idea what they are talking about. They can say I take it out of context but, how can you justify a instruction booklet that commands you to kill people by throwing stones at them until they die one minute... Then the next say "Thou shalt not kill".

Side: No

Not if you are under the control of the all mighty.-------------------------------

Side: No
1 point

Free will only exists on earth while we are alive in our human form. Free will can't exist in heaven because you can't choose to leave.

Side: No