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Debate Info

11
16
Yes No
Debate Score:27
Arguments:26
Total Votes:27
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 Yes (10)
 
 No (16)

Debate Creator

Brendan1095(28) pic



Is transgenderism a mental disorder?

Do those suffering from gender dysphoria or gender identity disorder need professionally and psychological help or are sex change operations the safest and best way to cure this issue?

Yes

Side Score: 11
VS.

No

Side Score: 16
2 points

First off, people who consider themselves to be transgender are confused. there are only two options: male and female. Your gender is not chosen by your feelings, as they do not determine reality. It is determined by the chromosomes present in your cells whether they be XX or XY. You cannot change your genetics, thus you cannot change your gender. Furthermore, if you truly believe that you are a woman when your genetics say that you are a male, it is only logical to state that that person has some type of mental shortcoming, or disorder. Although a person may argue that one can legally change their gender under United States law, it is illogical to do so. If I believe that I am a frog, and the Supreme Court of the United States legally declares me a frog, I am still genetically a human. In our society, we love to pretend that things are not the way they are. If we could go back to the frog example, if everyone on the entire earth believes it to be true, does it mean it's true? As David Stevens once said: "A lie is a lie, even if everyone believes it, the truth is the truth, even if no one believes it." Lastly, I will say that a person who has dissociative identity disorder may truly believe that they are someone different when they are going between different personalities, but it does not mean that it is true. Transgenderism is just like that, it is definitely a mental disorder, because one who is out of touch with reality is considered insane and credited with a mental disorder. Transgender people are out of touch with reality (your gender is the same no matter how much plastic surgery you undergo). Therefore, transgenderism is a mental disorder.

Side: Yes
1 point

I am very liberal about this LGBT stuff.

I am also extremely brilliant at handling people with any mental disorder other than narcissism or Antisocial Personality Disorder (APD is the baseline disorder that either stays as sociopath for more sane individuals or devolves into psychopath for more sadistic ones).

Transgenderism is a horrible disorder to experience. Much like OCD, it is one of the few disorders that gives only negatives to the one suffering from it (other disorders tend to give something amazing and/or pleasurable in exchange for their drawbacks).

Transgenders are welcome in my house or workplace any time just as much as someone with ADHD, autism, down's syndrome, tourettes or anything else other than narcissism or APD would be.

Side: Yes
Jace(4371) Disputed
1 point

The relevant diagnosis is Gender Dysphoria (formerly Gender Identity Disorder, and never "transgenderism"). It was a deliberate revision from the old DSM, and remained in inclusion largely to ensure access to transitional medical services. The APA has also issued explicit statements to the effect that not all transgender people have GD. Nor do people with GD have only suffering as a result and it's been postulated that the origin of distress might actually lie predominantly in the prevalent social stigma and ostricization (in which case, it would be a symptom of social rather than individual dysfunction).

I also disagree with your representation of OCD as giving only negatives to those suffering from it. In personal and proximate experience, that's not necessarily the case. In general, I'm not very on board with most clinical psychology in the first place. It's persistent regard for neuro-atypicality as fundamentally dysfunctional is a central issue for me. I think it contributes to the idea that people who are not mentally "normal" (which is a baseless and frankly idiotic notion imo) need to be "handled", etc.

I am also curious if you have any insights into why you are not equally good at handling those with NPD and APD. And also interested as to why you create exceptions to your acceptance for people with NPD and APD. Not debating here (yet), because I don't quite understand.

P.S. In the interest of welcoming trans people, you might not want to use "transgenders". It has a bad historical relation to the demographic, and for the more sensitive types won't have your intended effect. Not an argument, just a fact about how your language might cause you to be regarded by some other folk.

Side: No
Lopilulu(287) Disputed
1 point

Semantics for left wing political agendas are not my concern. It is a disorder because it is a syndrome whether the word is in the official name or not.

Those who have mental disorders need tips at the very least and regular lifelong therapy even medication not because they are odd but because they will never be able to overcome their barriers with those of different mental status and even will find their own kind off-putting if they don't know why they are that way.

Narcissism is literally a toxic mental disease that most teens and young males have then they outgrow it because all it does is inhibit the urge to improve oneself by substituting in the feeling of being infallible. This leaves the narcissist just as flawed and useless at any given activity (especially forming non superficial relationships) at age 30 as they were at age 12 and if they haven't gotten over themselves by then they are a lost cause of toxic ego.

As for psychopaths, you either lock them up, kill them or get raped snd killed (or many other than you will) the psychopath must first admit that they are broken in order to be treated and to compensate lack of empathy with fearless protection against other psychopaths (this the only salvation they have). Sociopaths who are not narcissistic actually make brilliant entrepreneurs and revolutionize the world. Narcissistic sociopaths (aka passive psychopaths) end up doing stupid things for thrills until they prematurely die.

Side: Yes
outlaw60(8155) Disputed
1 point

"You are extremely brilliant ?" What puts in the classification of "extremely brilliant" ? If you are so "extremely brilliant" would there be a need for you to make that claim ?

Side: No
Lopilulu(287) Disputed
1 point

There was not a need, only a want.

Side: Yes
1 point

GD (formerly GID, never "transgenderism") was left on the books after the last DSM revision largely to retain access to transitional medical services. Notably, not all trans people have GD and not all trans people want or seek transition either. The source of dysphoria in some trans people is indeterminant, and given what we know about the effects of stigma and ostricization and violence on mental health in conjunction with the disproportionate rates at which trans people experience all of that it's not unreasonable to speculate that GD misdiagnosis a natural response to social intolerance as an individual disorder. For those with GD diagnosis, transition in conjunction with therapy are comparably (or even more) effective treatment than as with other persistent conditions (psychological or physical). This is why the APA and WPATH backs it.

Side: No
FuckleBery(20) Disputed
1 point

I think there are more sensical reasons why the APA and WPATH back it. For instance, could you imagine the uproar in our current democracy if a disorder that has become so widely accepted was now officially diagnosed as a 'mental disorder'.

I have no problem with the concept that people don't feel comfortable in their body.

But your argument is invalid. The same situation arises for those with body dysmorphia. People thinking they are fat when they are skinny, or thinking they don't have a problem when they are morbidly obese. Yet, in the DSM there is anorexia, bulimia, body dysmorphia all can be diagnosed as 'mental disorders'. People can even get diagnosed with forms of delirium and psychosis for being morbidly obese but not thinking they have a problem.

As far as your stigma logic goes, they same social stigmas are portrayed on those with BD, though probably not as sever.

Side: Yes
Jace(4371) Disputed
1 point

My remark was not an argument. It was a series of facts. The APA has formally stated that not all transgender people are diagnosable for GD, and has recognized the role of discrimination and violence in the distress experienced by those who are diagnosable. That's the formal medical opinion on the matter. If you are disagreeing with me on this, then you are disagreeing with the medical community and its research (and it's entirely unclear from what basis you'd be doing that from).

The validity of GD as a diagnosis stands independent of the validity of other diagnosis, so appealing to the latter demonstrates nothing whatsoever about the former. Your argument is like trying to prove that cancer exists because pneumonia is recognized as existing. Moreover, you're presuming the overall validity of normative psychology itself which is hardly given. Clinical psychology is predicated on the privileging of normative psychology, which doesn't actually even exit. It also has a tendency to pathologize individuals for their natural adaptive responses to dysfunctional environments, rather than properly targeting and treating the dysfunctional environment.

The burden is on you to demonstrate that there would be uproar over the declassification of a condition that's only been on the books for 36 years. Given that there is actually precedent for the APA doing just that with homosexuality, and that the only remarkable change has been a gradual shift towards democratic inclusion instead of bigoted discrimination... I'd say you have your work cut out for you. And it's beside the point anyways; science does not derive from popular sentiment.

Side: No
1 point

A mental disorder requires for differential and quite abnormal actions in the brain and the psyche but being a transgender is just the personal feeling and hormonal changes in a specific person it does not mean it is a mental disorder. That is the same as saying being gay is a mental disorder.

Side: No
1 point

A mental disorder requires for differential and quite abnormal actions in the brain and the psyche but being a transgender is just the personal feeling and hormonal changes in a specific person it does not mean it is a mental disorder. That is the same as saying being gay is a mental disorder.

Side: No
1 point

A mental disorder requires for differential and quite abnormal actions in the brain and the psyche but being a transgender is just the personal feeling and hormonal changes in a specific person it does not mean it is a mental disorder. That is the same as saying being gay is a mental disorder.

Side: No
1 point

A mental disorder requires for differential and quite abnormal actions in the brain and the psyche but being a transgender is just the personal feeling and hormonal changes in a specific person it does not mean it is a mental disorder. That is the same as saying being gay is a mental disorder.

Side: No
1 point

I believe the correct term is a "gene disorder". Something we can not correct with "hate". Maybe after a while if ALL our minds are not clouded by intolerance and ancient Biblical fantasy, somebody (or group) will be able to correct it. Until then the statement "Religion causes us to hate others we wouldn't NORMALLY hate." rings true.

Side: No
1 point

I believe the correct term is a "gene disorder". Something we can not correct with "hate". Maybe after a while if ALL our minds are not clouded by intolerance and ancient Biblical fantasy, somebody (or group) will be able to correct it. Until then the statement "Religion causes us to hate others we wouldn't NORMALLY hate." rings true.

Side: No
1 point

gender dysphoria is a mental disorder, but it can be cured by transitioning. being trans is not

Side: No