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41
34
Free state Jew state
Debate Score:75
Arguments:66
Total Votes:80
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 Free state (33)
 
 Jew state (30)

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xljackson(260) pic



Israel Vs. Palestine

Don't quite understand why there is even a debate...
Jew's trying to claim land for Judaism.
People trying to claim the land for people.
Pretty simple no? 

Free state

Side Score: 41
VS.

Jew state

Side Score: 34
2 points

As much research as I don't, I can not come up with one credible reason as to why a religion has the right to hold ownership of a land, over the people on that land...

Call me cray

Side: Free state
excon(18260) Disputed
1 point

Hello x:

A religion DOESN'T own the land.. Men with GUNS do. Ok, you're crazy AND a touch anti-Semitic.

excon

Side: Jew state
xljackson(260) Disputed
1 point

So therefor the Jews have no right to Palestine, unless they use 'Men with GUNS' to do so?

You sound a touch A OK with holy war.....

Side: Free state
2 points

The Israelis should not be on that land and it is as simple as that. The man who delivered it to them was Churchill, and the only claim he had to the land was conquering it from the Otttoman empire. Most despicably of all, Israel was created on the back of one of the worst terrorist attacks in contemporary history, committed by Zionist terrorist organisation the Irgun, when they blew up the King David Hotel in Palestine, killing about 90 people.

Side: Free state
xljackson(260) Disputed
1 point

Wow - talk about victim blaming - at the epicenter of the 'worst terrorist attack in contemporary history' and they don't even get a village to call home...

UP THE JEWS!

Side: Jew state
Quantumhead(749) Disputed
1 point

Wow - talk about victim blaming - at the epicenter of the 'worst terrorist attack in contemporary history' and they don't even get a village to call home...

Well actually no. By your very flaky definition of terrorism, atheist Russian peasants were at the epicenter of the worst terrorist attack in contemporary history. Stalin killed 7 million alone in the Ukrainian famine.

Should we give the Ukrainians America to make up for it? Yes, that sounds like a good idea. You have 24 hours to leave your homes and fuck off.

Side: Free state
1 point

Obviously there is no easy solution to this matter. When land was appropriated from Muslims and given to Jews (for no good reason I might add) of course a violent struggle for ascendancy would result. Churchill could simply have permitted the Jews from the German empire to settle in western countries, or elsewhere within the British empire. Taking land from one group and giving it to another invariably engenders resentment and reactionary violence. There was no need for the Jewish homeland to be reinstated 1000+ years since it last existed, it simply seemed expedient at the time. Jews would not have faced persecution in, for example, America and England. Just over a million Jews had settled in Israel by 1949 (founded 1948), of which the majority were already in British Palestine! (Source 1). War immediately resulted (within 2 weeks!) from this transfer of land and since then has raged intermittently.

What's done is done though. The only manner to attain lasting peace is for Israel to give Palestine back some of what it has annexed. There is also the problem of checkpoints and the quality of land each state holds. I am not sure that even this will result in peace, however, as a great deal of resentment will remain. Moral of the story: don't take land from one group and give it to another group, especially when the groups have deep historical enmity between them and the land has religious significance to both!

Sources:

(1) http://www.cbs.gov.il/reader/shnaton/templ shnatone.html?numtab=st0201&CYear;=2012

Side: Free state
1 point

Citizens of Israel can own land in Israel even if they are not Jewish. There are Muslim citizens who own land there. Judaism is the state religion of Israel. The Church of England is the state religion of the U.K.

Side: Jew state
xljackson(260) Disputed
2 points

Not on 'holy land'....

The Jewish state will implements specific 'holy land' zones in which no citizens, whatever religion, can purchase land to live on.

You are comfortable with this?

Where do the zones start and finish? Where the Jew leaders say they do?

Side: Free state
Atrag(5666) Clarified
1 point

Interesting. So how much land in Israel is not allowed to be built in because it is designated "holy land zones"? As I understand it, the reason for these zones are because theyre deemed to be cultural heritage sites, which ones of these do you feel should be built on?

Side: Free state
Amarel(5669) Disputed
0 points

The United States implements specific "National Parks" and "Protected land" that no citizens of any religion can purchase land on.

Lots of nations maintain state land, for various reasons. Is "historical importance" a better reason than "religious importance"?

Side: Jew state
Quantumhead(749) Disputed
1 point

Citizens of Israel can own land in Israel even if they are not Jewish. There are Muslim citizens who own land there.

Oh, you make it sound like such a wonderful place, Amarel. Except:-

"A Palestinian Health Policy Institute survey over two years recorded the deaths of seventy-three babies at 'military checkpoints, barriers and trenches' and found that many women facing difficult deliveries had no choice but to give birth at home with no medical help." (Pilger 2007, p127)

Two-thirds of the 621 children killed at checkpoints, in the street, on their way to school, in their homes, died from small arms fire, directed in over half the cases to the head, neck and chest -- the sniper's wound. Two-thirds of the children were under fifteen. Clearly, soldiers are routinely authorised to shoot to kill the children in situations of minimal or no threat. These statistics attract far less publicity than suicide bombings." (Pilger 2007, p164-165, Quoting 2004 entry in the British Medical Journal.)

PILGER, J., 2007. Freedom next time. 2nd ed. Great Britain: Bantam press.*

Side: Free state
Amarel(5669) Disputed
1 point

I assume this post is meant to challenge the facts of the post you are responding to. It doesn't do that.

Side: Jew state