Israel Vs Palestine: who is the terrorist
From what I can gather Isreal has murdered more Palestinians than the other way around, and keep taking more land from Palestinians with military power
So who is the terrorist then.
Side Score: 65
Side Score: 75
Israel!!! By UN law Israel is not even classed as a country its classed as an occupation... they invaded Palestine in 1948 since then they have tortured and killed thousands of Palestinians and they're voices are yet to be heard.. they have kicked them out of they're houses and destroyed families. If an Israeli little boy spat on a Palestinian women in front of the police they would stand there and watch but if the Palestinian women shouted at the little boy she would be put in prison.. and you all say the Palestinians terrorists?
This horrible war between Israel and Palestine has been going on for decades - Since I can remember the death rates of Palestinians vs Isrealites has been on average 3 Palestinian deaths for any 1 dead Israeli
yet I hear the word "Terrorist" applied to the palestinies more often than the Isreali people
It seems to me to be some sort of trueism in the media that when people are murdered with missiles; that gets descibed as defenisive messures, while when people get murdered by suicide bombers it is described as offensive messures and terrorism.
I for one think missiles are just as terrefying and I do think that quantity of murder victims in war should account for how we describe the messures of both sides.
first of all its funny how you distort the truth and make israel look bad. there's a reason terrorist is thrown more at the palestinains then the isralies. let me tell you why.
one most plaestinians or muslim, they believe that all of arbia is scared and there for, jews who are infidels, must leave arbia, well they did not so they must kill them or end up sinning against allah. two, palestinians don't see israel as a sovereign nation, but people living on palestinian land, who must be eradicated. three, many muslims hold to the beliefs that peace can be achieved only through the destruction of israel.
and four, palestine is a terrorist hub, these are some of the terrorist groups in palestine, hamas, plo, hizbollah, al jihad, al fatah, egyptian islamic jihad, islamic front jihad, the muslim brotherhood, ANO, PFLP, DFLP, and some more you can probably find by your self.
now that we see why palestine is so intolerant to israel, we can now answer the other statement of yours. why are suicidal bombers considered terrorism and missiles not? easy, suicidal terrorist try to kill civilians, missiles launched by isreal do not, israel uses precision, unfortunately civilians can die. thats the cost of almost every palestinian housing a terrorist.
why do more palestinains die then israelies? because at a young age about 10, palestinians are trained to use weapons and to make explosives to kill jews with, israel response, they use rubber bullets. but this of course can still be lethal on little kids unfortunately.
so who's the terrorist? its pretty easy to say, so please respond with a sound argument of a time when israel PURPOSELY KILLED A PALESTINIAN CIVILIAN and not some liberal anti israel story you pull out of your's and some ones else's ass.
Your argument "they believe that all of Arabia is scared and there for, Jews who are infidels, must leave Arabia, well they did not so they must kill them or end up sinning against Allah"
My answer: Some Jews also think Israel is sacred and their rightful possession and I am pretty you can find Muslims that believe what you said, but in no way is that tha majority position and I think you go pretty far yourself in distorting the truth about Muslims (not that I want to defend silly religious positions about rightful ownership of land based on vague and ludicrous religious documents)
Besides: you can find all sorts of crazy psychopathic things to believe in in both Judaic and Muslim religious literature and In no way am I naive enough to believe that the majority of either actually believes in all those details just because they come from a certain tradition.
About your arguments 2 and 3 I can only say that; of course you can find people in war-ridden country's that hold those hardliner views, but again that goes for both sides.
About argument nr four: I am not gonna defend the actions of any of those groups you mention, of course allot of them are not even Palestinian but may be allies to some groups in Palestine. I want to stress that I am not taking sides with these groups, or saying that their cause or actions are in all respects justified - What I am saying is when you look at the numbers and you see two obvious things: Israel has killed more Palestinians than Palestinians have killed Israelis ( just in hard numbers, If we try to forget for one moment who is a non-human terrorist and deserves to die) and the other obvious thing is: Israel has continued taking more and more land that is defined by the united nations as Palestinian land, while Palestinians have done very little if any such thing.
so maybe, besides what you say the reasons for Palestinians being "so intolerant to Israel", It might be that those two facts have something to do with the "intolerance"
To the suicide bombing vs missile bombing argument I can only say: it seems a very happy accident for Israel that the "precise" missiles they use only hit "terrorists" : good for them - strange though how many of the terrorists/victims are younger than 16 years of age. And this argument that the reason so many kids get killed is because they are highly trained "terrorist" is both ludicrous and disgusting.
Of course allot of kids living in a country with no infrastructure and surrounded by a country that gets more foreign aid from the USA than the U.S gives to the whole rest of the third world (and alot of that is military equipment that then gets used to quaranty those kids inside physical walls); of course they are bound to be aggressive with nothing to do and being cornered like that. And of course some are more aggressive than other, and of course some get hold of guns and use them against missiles and tanks (all of those weapons probably made in America btw)
So again: A kid with a pistol vs. A tank
Is it so obvious who is the terrorist?
I don't think so
I want to again stress that by questioning the situation I am in no way condoning or supporting anyone using any sort of weapon to maim or kill anybody. I am just trying to understand this insane situation and I don't think de-humanizing the situation by calling all people on one side terrorists and all people on the other side freedom fighters makes this situation any saner - on the contrary I think the first sign of insanity is when people start confusing symbols with reality.
again your belief is ignorant. the land israel occupies is the west bank and the gaza strip. this land was took by israel in the six day war that palestine and its allies STARTED. instead of annexing the land, israel did not want to deal with the larger arabian population or the poverty they were in, so israel founded a military administration over the occupied land to distribute food and resources to the palestinans.
why are troops still there today? same reason we still have mps in some axis countries, insurgence. if you read my other statement you can see all the terrorist groups in palestine, also again i stress, palestinans mostly hate israel for personal and religious reasons. for israel to be safe israel must have troops in occupied land that i again remind you COULD OF BEEN ISRAELI LAND, but they choose to instead give palestine some freedom, as we can see today in the negations that israel and palestine have.
israel wants to pull out of the west bank and gaza strip but it cant because it has a very intolerant violent neighbor.
Soon after the end of World War II, there were three basic para-military Zionist organizations in Palestine, working against the Arab people, with the specific purpose of driving it out of Palestine. These were the Haganah, the Irgun Zvai Leumi and the Stern Gang. Before the British Mandate, the Jewish settlers had formed a group of mounted armed watchmen called "Hashomar" and with the advent of the British Mandate, it became the Haganah (Defense). With a membership of 60,000 Zionist Jews, the Haganah had a field army of 16,000 trained men and a unit called the Palmach, which was a full-time force, numbering about 6000. The Irgun Zvai Leumi included between 3000 and 5000 armed terrorists, and grew out of the Haganah and its Palmach branch in 1933. The Irgun was not ready to obey the Jewish Agency which sought to dilute the terror of the Haganah in order not to lose its respectability. In 1939, one of Irgun's commanding officers, Abraham Stern, left the parent organization and formed the Stern Gang, numbering some 200 to 300 dangerous fanatics.
August 20, 1937 - June 29, 1939. During this period, the Zionists carried out a series of attacks against Arab buses, resulting in the death of 24 persons and wounding 25 others.
November 25, 1940. S.S.Patria was blown up by Jewish terrorists in Haifa harbour, killing 268 illegal Jewish immigrants
November 6, 1944. Zionist terrorists of the Stern Gang assassinated the British Minister Resident in the Middle East, Lord Moyne, in Cairo.
July 22, 1946. Zionist terrorists blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, which housed the central offices of the civilian administration of the government of Palestine, killing or injuring more than 200 persons. The Irgun officially claimed responsibility for the incident, but subsequent evidence indicated that both the Haganah and the Jewish Agency were involved
October 1, 1946. The British Embassy in Rome was badly damaged by bomb explosions, for which Irgun claimed responsibility.
June 1947. Letters sent to British Cabinet Ministers were found to contain bombs.
September 3, 1947. A postal bomb addressed to the British War Office exploded in the post office sorting room in London, injuring 2 persons. It was attributed to Irgun or Stern Gangs.
December 11, 1947. Six Arabs were killed and 30 wounded when bombs were thrown from Jewish trucks at Arab buses in Haifa; 12 Arabs were killed and others injured in an attack by armed Zionists on an Arab coastal village near Haifa.
December 13,1947. Zionist terrorists, believed to be members of Irgun Zvai Leumi, killed 18 Arabs and wounded nearly 60 in Jerusalem, Jaffa and Lydda areas. In Jerusalem, bombs were thrown in an Arab market-place near the Damascus Gate; in Jaffa, bombs were thrown into an Arab cafe; in the Arab village of Al Abbasya, near Lydda, 12 Arabs were killed in an attack with mortars and automatic weapons.
December 19, 1947. Haganah terrorists attacked an Arab village near Safad, blowing up two houses, in the ruins of which were found the bodies of 10 Arabs, including 5 children. Haganah admitted responsibility for the attack.
December 29, 1947. Two British constables and 11 Arabs were killed and 32 Arabs injured, at the Damascus Gate in Jerusalem when Irgun members threw a bomb from a taxi.
December 30,1947. A mixed force of the Zionist Palmach and the "Carmel Brigade" attacked the village of Balad al Sheikh, killing more than 60 Arabs.
1947 -- 1948. Over 700,000 Palestinian Arabs were uprooted from their homes and land, and forced to live in refugee camps on Israel's borders. They have been denied the right to return to their homes. They have been refused compensation for their homes, orchards, farms and other property stolen from them by the Israeli government. After their expulsion, the "Israeli Forces" totally obliterated (usually by bulldozing) 385 Arab villages and towns, out of a total of 475. Commonly, Israeli villages were built on the remaining rubble. Many more horrid examples.
On April 9, 1948, a combined force of Irgun Zvai Leumi and the Stern Gang, supported by the Palmach forces, captured the Arab village of Deir Yassin and killed more than 200 unarmed civilians, including countless women and children. Older men and young women were captured and paraded in chains in the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem; 20 of the hostages were then shot in the quarry of Gevaat Shaul.
200 unarmed Arab civilians were killed. Arab men and women were paraded in chains. 20 Arab hostages were shot in a quarry.
Who are the terrorists?
"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter."
Israel has been kicked off "their" land for the past 2 000 years. They may be taking it back, or they may be encroaching on land that is not theirs. To us, terrorism is wrong, but to the terrorists it is right.
"Israel has been kicked off "their" land for the past 2 000 years."
2000 yrs. ago your anscetors undoubtedly lived somewhere else, probably on another continent, now imagine you study your families genealogy, and find out exactly where your ancestors lived, then you travel there with a gun, walk to the person currently libing there aim it in his face, and say " hey buddy, this is my land, I'm home, get the fuck off my land."
It's like the problem in Ireland, did the catholics have the right to displace the protestant majority, i mean they were the descendants of the people that killed them, stole their homes from them, but know they didn't have the right because 700 years had passed.
Time kind of changes the rules, or at elast it should.
Israel has been kicked off "their" land for the past 2 000 years. They may be taking it back, or they may be encroaching on land that is not theirs. To us, terrorism is wrong, but to the terrorists it is right.
Please read the entire argument before you dispute it. My main point (if it was unclear to you) was stated at the beginning of my argument: "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter."
Regardless of who's land it was or is, the true "terrorist" in this case is not clear. However, because Israel has been subject to much oppression in the past, it is unlikely that they are considered the terrorists, even though they very well could be.
It is a matter of perception, not definition. Israel's land was taken in the past, now they are taking land from Palestine (who took Israeli territory in the past) and the machine keeps going. Perception dictates who the "terrorist" truly is; notice the quotaition marks around "their land".
Old debate, but still relevant. Israel, marches in to Palestine, killing hundreds of thousands, turning tens of millions in to refugees, stealing land from them, taking all Palestinians rights from them, beating up children and throwing them in to jail because they were protesting over the arrest of their parents and are now living on the streets, e.t.c. If you ask me Palestine has every right to demand Israel it's land back. or at least to stop building more settlements. Fucking Israel I mean come on. What, are we meant to pity them now because the Palestinians dare retaliate against their oppressors? Hell no. Israel invades Palestine, because apparently it's their 'right'. I mean don''t even bother trying to talk about people's 'rights' Israel, from what I've seen you doing to the Palestine's, you don't know how to spell the word 'right'.
Oh but Germany invades Poland because it used to be theirs, and suddenly they are all terrible people we need to go to war with them and they should all go to hell.
What the Israeli's are doing is WRONG Don't just watch CNN, Fox, and other biased-to-bullshit stations, take a look at what is actually going on there for yourself. Palestinians even need fucking permits to go in to their own vegetable fields, and half the time are denied. Look up on the Orange fields in Jaffa.
This is patently false. Just because you say it doesn't make it so. British Mandate for Palestine made a partition plan defining borders, economic sharing, and protections for religious rights. War broke out before the plan could be implemented because the Jewish community in Palestine published a Declaration of Independence which announced the creation of the State of Israel. The Declaration did not define what the borders of the new state would be. They were not interested in sharing from day one. So five Arab armies crossed the borders of what had formerly been Mandated Palestine. So began the 1948 Arab–Israeli War.
please read my arguments to left that i posted that argue against PungSviti. i also wrote a 10 page essay called "PALESTINIAN DILEMMA" it talks about the intolerant arabians and terrorism that stops palestine form coming to peace with israel and how these issues can be solved, if you would like a link or for me to post the essay just ask me.
Knowing what Muslims have done in my native country, of course Palestinians are the terrorist. Throughout history, Muslims have known to be conquerors who have no respect for others unless they submit to Islam. Israel can give 99% of the country to Palestinians and Palestinians will still not be satisfied. In addition, commiting suicide acts and then hiding among the civilians shows how Palestinians hope to win against the Israelis. Israel is 100% right. Palestinian terrorists have their entire hope on the world opinion where suicide attacks are seen as a desparate act . When Israel responds, these terrorists never come out in the open and instead decide to hide among the general Palestinian population hoping that the Israeli retaliation will look as if it is an attack on civilians among whom the terrorists hide. Of all the countries with muslim conflicts, Israel does the best job. Why? Because they show that you do not negotiate with terrorists.
Some might say that this has nothing to do with Islamic faith, but it does. Just look at the most conflicts in the world where muslims are involved. Is it really possible that they are always victims? Petrodollars and even heroin trade can buy you media time. While suicide attacks are considered by the leftists as a desparate act, retaliations are considered to be acts of murder. Perhaps if Israel did not retaliate, that will be the end of the only democratic country in that part of the world....and no, Iraq is not a democracy.
So your point if I understand it correctly, which I am not sure about given that you go all over the place and dont touch on many verifiable facts; but your point seems to be that Palestinians (that now occupy about 1/12 of the country and within confined walls); that theyre whole act (so to speak) is a giant PR stunt to get "the world" to feel sorry for them.
I would argue that only looking at the number of casualties in this war on each side would be enough to give the palestinians more pitty points than Isrelians concerning this particular war (not that I want to downplay the grief suffered by the Israelsis in this war or other. We all know they have been trough alot)
I also dont think a nation that is constantly taking more and more land from another nation and killing more people than get killed on their side - can call that act "retaliation" in all respects (altough there are of course alot of situations where an individual soldier from each side retaliates in that micro situtation - I also feel that people argueing about these things ( I name no names) tend to confuse the macro situation with all sorts of micro story´s from the battlefield).
I want to stress again that I am not defending the Muslim religion and never did I imply that all muslims where victims (but it has to be said that the US along with the former USSR and UN has done alot to fuck with their infrastructure the last 60 or so years) .
It seems to me that the more religious a person is (and that counts for muslims, jews and Christians among others) , the more likely that person is to be violent (and/or stupid) and there are study´s to support that.
Also when it comes to fighting religious wars, christians certainly take the cake, but this is getting a bit of topic. I agree with you though that this has to do with faith in some respect, and the intolerance that it breeds in people of faith. (but not just the muslims as the record shows)
Untill you are a non-muslim living among muslims who are a majority, you will not understand.....it is a whole different game.
When non-muslims are killed, it is almost never mentioned.
Christians and Jews are not angels either, but the difference is that christians and jews have joined the 21st century in general, muslims are yet to do it and still live in a 6th century idea of "kill all the infidels". Usual "not all muslims are like that" is not an excuse because that percentage of non-violent muslims is very very very small. The only reason why most of middle east countries are not democratic is exactly because of that: they don't care for rights of others nor those muslims who live there. Those that do care are stoned in the streets. Sounds like a religion of peace only to an idiot.
Again, to conclude, it is a whole different game if you live among them. Look at Egypt, Chechnya, Nigeria, Turkey, Bosnia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Iran..or do I need to name any more?...places where muslim majorities treat non-muslim majorities are treated as not even 2nd class citizens, but rather as slaves. Of course, we don't hear much about those innocent civilians because that would make muslims look bad.
If you can find me full proof that mistreatments of non-muslims are not occuring anymore, I would be more than happy to support your claim.
Visit Palestine and israel, and you will know which side are the terrorists: Israel. Their army and government are so brutal, that they don't deserve to be called humans. Listen to Lowkey's song 'Free Free Palestine', and listen to Jews and Israelis such as Normal Finkelstein.
Yes Israelis also support the palestine side
Free Free Palestine!
please convey my reguards to all those dead palestinians and isralias that are living in hell because of our ineptitude to negotiate peace within our own world. if it were that we were able to be at peace with each other then the world would have no trouble but if we were to sit and listen too the ever grinding troubles of your own mind there would never be peace, yet if we were too provide action on neutrality of mind the world would listen would it not? think about this and then get back too me
first of all ill tell you about all the savage people in palestine and israel they are holy they follow their holy books which is more than we can say for most people they are adament that the other is in the wrong perhaps if we could talk about a way too prevent death insgtead of advocating it in a rou nd about way we could get somewhere
i just don't get how you can think that Israel is in the right by letting 4,019,433 in a country the size of 6,020. they say that the houses are so close together that you can shake hands with the neighbor in the opposite house. plus Palestinians cant build an army because there not rich enough to actually get tanks and armed weapons! its the media that portray the Palestinians as the terrorists because they managed to send a missile into Israel and then the Israelis send over bombs that make craters into the land of the Palestinians. i just don't get how you could say that Israel is right for treating people real LIVING BEINGS lower that they would treat themselves by not letting them out of their land and making them live in poverty. Palestinians are struggling to get water and if they look over the barriers they can see the Israelis using sprinklers and all the water fountains that are there for decoration. and yet you still think that the Israelis are doing the right thing by letting them live in poverty. of course the Palestinians are going to fight back to claim THEIR land because it is THEIR land and the Jews came over and said "A land with no people, for a people with no land" which is total rubbish! imagine there you are sitting in your home with your family and home is a secure place, home is safety and then all of a sudden these people come who barge into your house and shout that this is now not your land and you are forced into a little part of your own country, your not just gonna sit back and say "OK then if that's what you said" your gonna fight back and claim back your land!but obviously that Israelis were right for doing that weren't they(!)
I wish I had some influence on American foreign policy. I do not condone supporting isolation of Palestinians, many of whom were forced out of their homes.
Israelis are perpetuating terrorists; fencing Palestinians in a ghetto with no infrastructure (incongruously imitative of Nazi tactics and) is giving them no hope for the future.
Oh so the Palistinians wanting the land has nothing to do with the fact that they sort of owned the land until 65 years ago and are now forced to live in confinement by physcial walls withiin 1/12 of the country (look at a map) ?
If I believe God gave me california, can I take it?
Who everybody is against Isreal? From what I can gather Isreal has very strong support and lobby groups within the US and in Europe they have a strong support (altough not as strong as in the US) at least in the country´s that I know of.
And about standing proud: not much wrong with taking pride in your heritage, (although in my personal opinion it can only lead to xenophobia) but taking pride in yourself and taking land from others are two different things and on the opposite side of the moral scale.