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9
21
Condemn Excuse
Debate Score:30
Arguments:17
Total Votes:44
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 Condemn (7)
 
 Excuse (10)

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WinstonC(1206) pic



Karl Marx

In Marx's essay "On the Jewish Question" he states the following: "What is the secular basis of Judaism? Practical need, self-interest. What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money. Very well then! Emancipation from huckstering and money, consequently from practical, real Judaism, would be the self-emancipation of our time. An organization of society which would abolish the preconditions for huckstering, and therefore the possibility of huckstering, would make the Jew impossible."

Given the current political climate, do you think Marx's modern followers would condemn or excuse his words and why?

Condemn

Side Score: 9
VS.

Excuse

Side Score: 21
1 point

Marx was a race traitor. He wanted to stop his own race from maintaining it's position of superiority by being rich and greedy capitalists.

Side: Condemn
2 points

Given the current political climate, do you think Marx's modern followers would condemn or excuse his words and why?

I think you have to remember that Marx himself came from a Jewish family. He had little incentive to criticise Judaism but did it anyway. You mention the "current political climate" which is interesting, because the wingnut American right will defend Judaism to the death, while they simultaneously spend the rest of their free time belittling and spreading pernicious lies about Islam. Hence, the "current political climate", at least in America, is one dominated by religious bigotry. It is this religious bigotry which drives Christians and Jews alike to become apologists for Judaism and the Judeo-Christian culture in general.

If we look back through history then Jews have been expelled from lands 109 times. Clearly, there is something going on with their behaviour which has aggravated many different world leaders. To deny this is just historical revisionism.

In your excerpt Marx is speaking in general terms of course. Somebody made a very good point a couple of days ago that the individual should always be treated as an individual. I believe this, but at the same time Jews work to create a world compatible with their religion. One in which their views are held in greater value than those of their Arab counterparts.

To deny the link between Jews and capitalism would also be historical revisionism. There is significant data to illustrate Marx's point. For example, of Forbes 2018 list of the wealthiest ten Americans, half of them are Jewish.

I do not believe in isolating any of the major religions for the purpose of criticism, but rather (and I am sure Marx himself would have echoed this) religion itself has caused terrible problems for society. The difficulty is that the right wing is insane, and as such they want a world where Jews are worshipped but Muslims are demonised. Much has been made of "Islamic terrorism" in recent years and yet the public appears to have forgotten completely about the terrorist campaigns of Christian organisations like the IRA, and of Zionist Jewish organisations like the Irgun. The double standards are transparently clear and they exist because of class. The ruling class has a much better relationship with rich hard right Jews. For this reason they have been empowered.

Side: Excuse
Jody(1119) Disputed
1 point

Christian organisations like the IRA, and of Zionist Jewish organisations like the Irgun.

The IRA stands for the Irish Republican Army their aim was a United ireland first and foremost just because the majority of the republican population was catholic didn’t make them a Christian terrorist group you really do say some throughly stupid things.

Please mention one time the I R A carried out an attack and “ screeched “god is great “?

Bet you cannot yet your much loved Muslim terrorists make it a point to shriek “ Allah Snackbar “ at each and every atrocity they carry out .

Islam is the most regressive and divisive belief system going yet your a cheerleader for it , dear oh dear .

Your hatred of Jews and anything relating to Jews comes through loud and clear also Adolf

Side: Condemn
Hootie(956) Disputed
1 point

The IRA stands for the Irish Republican Army their aim was a United ireland first and foremost

And the aim of al Qaeda first and foremost was to get westerners out of the Middle East. It doesn't change the fact they were Muslims any more than it changes the fact that the IRA were Catholics. Your point, although true, bears absolutely no relevance. See:-

The conflict began during a campaign to end discrimination against the Catholic/nationalist minority by the Protestant/unionist government and police force.[33][34] The authorities attempted to suppress this protest campaign and were accused of police brutality; it was also met with violence from loyalists, who alleged it was a republican front. Increasing inter-communal violence, and conflict between nationalist youths and police, eventually led to riots in August 1969 and the deployment of British troops, who constructed 'peace walls' to keep the opposing communities apart. Some Catholics initially welcomed the army as a more neutral force, but it soon came to be seen as hostile and biased.[35] The emergence of armed paramilitary organisations led to the subsequent warfare over the next three decades.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles

Side: Excuse
Hootie(956) Disputed
1 point

just because the majority of the republican population was catholic didn’t make them a Christian terrorist group

I didn't say the republican population were a Christian terrorist group so you are using straw man argumentation. The IRA were/are a paramilitary Christian terrorist group. When the two sides fighting a war belong to different denominations of the same religion, then that is a sectarian war. Your attempt to keep religion out of a war which was literally defined in religious terms (i.e. protestants fighting Catholics) is absurd.

Side: Excuse
1 point

Given the current political climate, do you think Marx's modern followers would condemn or excuse his words and why?

Hello W:

The only followers of Marx I know, are on this website.. Not only do they EXCUSE his words, they EMBRACE them..

I dunno why.. Hatred for the sake of hatred, never made sense to me..

excon

Side: Excuse

Isn't it interesting how Nazi ideology appeared visibly like it came right from Marx's mind?

Side: Excuse
jamesbody(331) Disputed
1 point

Isn't it interesting how Nazi ideology appeared visibly like it came right from Marx's mind?

The only interesting thing here is how insane and pathologically dishonest you are -- just like Hitler!! You are perfectly willing to turn established history upside down for the sake of justifying your own insane far right political views. See:-

In Hitler's mind, communism was a major enemy of Germany, an enemy he often mentions in Mein Kampf. During the trial for his involvement in the Beer Hall Putsch, Hitler claimed that his singular goal was to assist the German government in "fighting Marxism".[102] Marxism, Bolshevism, and communism were interchangeable terms for Hitler as evidenced by their use in Mein Kampf:

"In the years 1913 and 1914 I expressed my opinion for the first time in various circles, some of which are now members of the National Socialist Movement, that the problem of how the future of the German nation can be secured is the problem of how Marxism can be exterminated.[103]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PoliticalviewsofAdolfHitler#Anti-communism

Hence, the sheer irony is that you echo the ideas of Hitler, while calling the very people you and Hitler both hated of being Hitler. It's the most stupid and dishonest thing imaginable.

Side: Condemn
1 point

Nothing you provided rebuttals that Hitler was an anti Christian, pro Islam, gun grabbing, anti capitalist socialist.

Side: Excuse
0 points

Given the current political climate, do you think Marx's modern followers would condemn or excuse his words and why?

Hi Winston , there’s one rabid Marxist on here with several alt accounts who defends every word of Marx .

Marx detested Jews , Mexicans and blacks seeing them all as inferiors the resident Marxist claims he was just “ a man of his times “ as most thought this way , which can be used as an excuse for any vile behaviour of this type if one is to accept this line of reasoning when talking about people of Marx’s time.

To me the worst thing about Marx and his friend Engels is the fact they did the complete and opposite of what they claimed to represent, Engels was a rich industrialist who payed his workers minimum wage , he was a notorious social climber who mixed with lords and ladies he led the Cheshire hunt and owned several properties .

Marx pissed away three family fortunes left to his once wealthy wife indulged in the finest wines and cigars , and famously never paid his maid one penny .....socialists how are you indeed

Side: Excuse
0 points

Our resident Marxist is infuriated look at that three downvotes from his alt accounts truly demonstrates the truth does hurt this comrade

Side: Excuse