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11
7
Marginal Utility Theory Labor Theory
Debate Score:18
Arguments:31
Total Votes:20
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 Marginal Utility Theory (8)
 
 Labor Theory (6)

Debate Creator

Amarel(4790) pic



Labor Theory of Value VS Marginal Utility Theory of Value

Marginal Utility Theory/ Marginalism / Subjective Theory of Value- Value is determined by the importance an individual places on a good or service.



Labor Theory of Value - The value of a good or service can be objectively measured by the average number of labor hours required to produce that commodity.

Marginal Utility Theory

Side Score: 11
VS.

Labor Theory

Side Score: 7
2 points

Marginal Utility Theory/ Marginalism / Subjective Theory of Value- Value is determined by the importance an individual places on a good or service.

Labor Theory of Value - The value of a good or service can be objectively measured by the average number of labor hours required to produce that commodity.

Hello A:

There are holes in both theory's..

First, an "individual" doesn't determine value.. It's many individuals acting in consort that determine value.. It's called the "market".

Second, I've produced MANY items that the "market" valued well BELOW the cost of labor.. I TOLD them they were WRONG, but that didn't PROMPT them to buy.

excon

Side: Marginal Utility Theory
Amarel(4790) Clarified
2 points

First, an "individual" doesn't determine value.. It's many individuals acting in consort that determine value.. It's called the "market".

The market doesn’t determine the value you, or others put in something. The value you and other put in something determines the price. The market determines the price, not the value. Things have value to individuals, not markets.

Side: Marginal Utility Theory
1 point

The market doesn’t determine the value you, or others put in something. The value you and other put in something determines the price. The market determines the price, not the value. Things have value to individuals, not markets.

Very well put. The distinction between price and value is an important one, particularly in the context of this discussion.

Side: Marginal Utility Theory
2 points

To compare the theories, let us consider the value of a hole in terms of each.

Utility

If I want to plant an apple tree, I need someone to dig a hole. The labor it takes to dig the hole is worth exactly one hole.

That hole in turn has a value that is related to the value of the tree, which is in turn related to the value of the apples, which in turn is related to the value of who or what is nourished by the apples, and so forth.

Valuation all leads away from the thing being valued, and determines it only in terms of how it is useful, or how it affects (or effects) something else. This makes accurate and consistent valuation impossible.

Labor

The value of the labor to dig that hole is measured in terms of the time or effort required to dig the hole. If two people dig identical holes in identical ground, then the two holes should be of identical value.

If, however one of the holes is dug by a strapping young man, and the other is dug by a crippled octogenarian, the hole dug by the young man is not as valuable as the other because he could dig it with less effort, and in less time.

This makes accurate and consistent valuation impossible.

Side: Marginal Utility Theory
1 point

Our local proponents of labor theory have all been invited. Their presence is welcome. Their absence is not surprising.

Side: Labor Theory
1 point

Am I allowed to calmly explain why both are flawed and why I don't believe in 'to each as is needed from each as they can do'?

Side: Labor Theory
Amarel(4790) Clarified
1 point

It’s a debate. Of course you’re allowed to state your opinion on the matter. I’m curious as to what it is. If I take issue with some portion, I’ll say so or ask a critical question. If we are in disagreement, it will either be resolved or not.

I’m not going to ban for honest effort or anything.

Also, Idk if you are a proponent of the labor theory. I invited you, them, and others.

Side: Marginal Utility Theory
Mingiwuwu(1736) Clarified
1 point

Okay, so my background here is not just philosophical, I am one of the single most in-depth analysts of the game of Poker and comprension of money and Capitalism in and of themselves as absolutes in all human societies etc. I comprehend value; both perceived and 'actual' to accuracy that even the most mathematical opponents of mine have been goaded into undervaluing or overvaluing when bluffing me, calling me or making me fold as I baited them into making it clear how strong their hand was and they assumed I'd be loose enough to call. I understand values and how they change both subjectively and objectively in a long tournament to degrees most Poker experts would envy as it's beyond numbers and math; I literally feel it as an aura and comprehend psychological tension and relaxation and hold it up against true values where even seasoned vets with 40 years on me at gambling and stats are being outplayed by me. I don't take pride in the outplaying, the pride is in that it's becoming impossible to outplay me and there's a secret to why that is and how I've evolved a perfect system for comprehending value that I won't reveal the specifics of as I not only don't want to on a site that can claim my theory posted on it as its own but I cannot vocalise or mathematically represent the complex processes in my brain (it's not mental illness, it's genius and I'm not a lunatic I just appear to be).

The background of me is very important in understanding how and why I reached such an accurate and fascinating conclusion as this:

The True Value of any good, commodity or ANYTHING (even a seat-position in a classroom) begins with the notion of there being an end goal. You must absolutely know what the goal is and the goal must be based on time versus risk. What this means is you need to imagine when you'll die at all times and if you truly have no idea, no cancer or anything, then you go with the idea that you're dying slowly and are like a rotting apple enjoying its time to the grave and perhaps trying to die useful to others and their journey to the grave along the way, too. The importance of this is that at no time should your end goal be to be happy, or to get rich. The moment your END GOAL is happiness or wealth, you have a toxic end-goal that defeats itself as what do you do with the wealth? You serve your happiness and what do you need, in order to stay happy? Wealth. The secret is NOT to go 'ah, it's HEALTH of the mind and body that's key!' I'm not saying be a fitness fanatic vegan either. The secret is in realising this:

Estimated duration of the event (if IRL and in general, the even is the life of you and those who you think matter)... Let's say this is EDE...

EWGE is same but WG is 'wealth gained'.

So, EDE x happiness needing to be sacrificed in order to gain wealth / (EWGE + E happiness gain)

What unit is happiness? That is too complex to put into words and I could make a lot of money writing a book on that anyway as well as having it as my legacy to my IRL name so I'll bide my time with that one.

If the EDE x HS / (EWE+EHG) is 1 or below, you are in a suboptimal situation be it a relationship, job activity or moment that you're going for a shit in your day. If the result is 2 or above, then you're almost definitely doing a worthwhile thing, even for the short-term.

Wealth, in situations or societies without money or items to be traded and favours to be traded, instead becomes something you feel everyone wants in the vicinity. Always aim to attain the thing everyone wants, not the thing some want a lot and others want very little. This 'wealth' value, if not money, must be something that can withstand almost any alteration to the environment and circumstance around you other than pure and utter anarchy hitting it as that is something you can't plan out or prepare for anyway and the equation is 0 by default then so get the hell out of the anarchy or change it.

Side: Marginal Utility Theory