Liberal vs Libertarian government: Which is better?
Which style of government works better? One with more or less freedom?
Liberal
Side Score: 23
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Libertarian
Side Score: 24
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If we are talking about the extremes of the two, Libertarian idealism would simply not work via their economic ideals. Liberalism would work at the least, perhaps not well, but it is sustainable. I prefer moderate liberalism with room for personal rights on the Libertarian side (which libralism is closer to overall taking into account speach, religion, etc, than conservatism despite the NRA's hatred of all things liberal) liberal on social issues such as social security and healthcare, and true conservative (which apparently no longer exists) on issues like going to war in countries we should have nothing to do with (note this has turned into a liberal issue over the last couple of decades I honestly cannot think of a good conservative idea right now so I'm throwing them a bone) Side: liberal
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I speak from the perspective of an American. Perhaps that clouds my judgment, but so be it. Libertarianism is simply unsustainable within the American polity. Cutting taxes and cutting government spending is a noble goal--hell, it's common sense, right? Prima facie, yes. But you need to dig deeper to get a good grasp of the reality. First off: only 40% of government spending is discretionary. The remaining 60% includes things such as medicare/social security/interest on the national debt--that is, things that can't be changed. No matter how red Congress/WH becomes, we can only phase out up to 40% of government spending, and that's including defense spending (and most conservatives wouldn't support cutting defense). I'll give libertarians the benefit of the doubt and assume we can manage to cut a full 40% of the government budget. Even by Bush spending habits we're still operating in the red. The problem with the debt isn't government spending, it's Reagonomics. Reagan reduced the top marginal tax rate from 70% to 28%, and dipped into social security to offset the difference. Excuse me, "offset" is used malapropically, because it didn't offset the revenue loss at all. In fact, the national debt tripled. Since Reagan's term, the government has continued to break bank with each president except Clinton. Theoretically, we can phase out almost all of the government budget--including entitlements and the interest. But before we can successfully accomplish that, we need to first reset the top marginal tax rates where they belong (in the 50% + ballpark), and until the government accomplishes that, I will continue to vote liberal. Oh, one last thing: as someone who studies climate science as a hobby, I take exception to the libertarian response to global warming. It seems as if libertarians fully ignore the existence of negative externalities. If you press them on it, they claim we can rectify the externality through tort law. But let's be realistic here. Think about the Gulf oil spill, and how people were worried BP would go bankrupt over the escrow fund. Heck, think of global warming. Utilities companies are hardly penniless, but could their combined monetary might really pay off the externalities their ventures have created? No way! Side: liberal
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Libertarianism is an unrealistic approach to the way things work, what they want is deregulation in every area significantly with helping people, they are just as willing as Republicans to secure corporate America and would not be shocked to see the middle class vanish which would happen under ZERO regulative capitalism. Side: Liberal
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Bohemian doesn't understand that Libertarian is neither Liberal nor Conservative. Liberal governments would be one with less social regulation but more property and ownership regulation. (with the American view on Liberalism, and not ACTUAL liberalism). Libertarian government would just have less regulation. Side: libertarian
Libertarian and Liberal are not mutually exclusive which is why it is possible to be a liberal libertarian or a conservative libertarian. Libertarian, simply means "more social freedom" as opposed to an Authoritarian which means "less social freedom". Whether someone is a liberal or conservative is based primarily on the economic beliefs and specific social issues. They are positions on two different scales. It's comparing apples to oranges. The question might as well ask: "Do you wear pants or do you own a TV?". You can have both. Side: liberal
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Despite the multitude of different variations in what a libertarian can be, liberals and libertarians are mutually exclusive because in GENERAL MOST Libertarians want Personal Liberty Personal Privacy Economic Liberty Cut Government Finance and Spending Free Markets with no subsides Education by free market Health Care by free market Where Liberals would agree with Personal Liberty Personal Privacy But Oppose Economic Liberty Cut Government Finance and Spending Free Markets with no subsides Education by free market Health Care by free market Whereas Conservatives would agree with Economic Liberty Cut Government Finance and Spending Free Markets with no subsides Education by free market Health Care by free market But Oppose Personal Liberty Personal Privacy Side: libertarian
If you want to get into specifics, Liberal and Conservative have to do with Culture. Economics have to do with the wings. And social freedom has to do with Authoritarianism vs. Libertarianism. But the creator obviously meant our current generalization of Liberal and Libertarian. Liberals of the Democratic Party and Libertarians of the Libertarian Party. Side: libertarian
as already explained libertarians can be a mixture of numerous things, for instance i am a conservative libertarian meaning i believe in private services such as libertarians but i also believe in a small central government for basic order and unification of certain things such as a military and foreign affairs. as for the government part I'm not to sure who is saying has more freedom and who has less. but i will assume he means libertarian governments have more freedom due to the absence of government. Side: libertarian
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Here is the problem with liberals they think that everything they do is OK when they force things on people because it is what they want. As opposed to the libertarian that doesn't want to force anything on anybody. It is time for liberals to wake up and start to realize that I owe no man anything except to respect and obey natural law. We am I obligated by the sheer nature of my birth in a certain geographic region to pay someone else's way. Side: libertarian
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Personally, I think that both sides are flawed. I wouldn't vote conservative due to the views on war and immigration. But I also wouldn't vote Liberal due to the views on economics, individual rights, the environment, even Israel. Libertarianism (for me anyway) seems to have the policies from both sides that I support. Side: libertarian
Why do people keep claiming to be liberal/conservative libertarians? By definition a libertarian is neither of these things. As a libertarian you cannot be fiscally liberal or socially conservative, or you should be called something else. Unlike democrats and republicans who are often hypocritical when it comes to government interference/regulation, libertarians are consistent in their belief that people are capable to make their own choices. Also, to those who are claiming that economic libertarianism is not sustainable, take a look at the government we are in right now. We are facing an astronomical level of debt and our "government corrections" are only making things worse and digging us deeper into a financial hole. How is the market to make a recover when we interrupt the signals that promote success? FAILURE IS THE SIGNAL, if we are not allowed to fail, when will we learn to do things differently? Side: libertarian
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when will people stop thinking that taking other peoples money is the only way to make things better....tax the rich at 90%.....yah i see that solving everything, and yes, you can be a libertarian conservative....have to be actually to be libertarian at all. The more you do for anybody the less they think they can do or want to do for themselves. There are more than enough groups and private citizens in america to help people who really need help. But anymore it's about giving people what other people worked for...not because they just need help for a little while....anymore, it's all about ...give me..poor me....i don't necessarilly want to get off my ass and earn anything myself and everyone is just a racist or whatever if they actually expect that from them. I would say more than 60-70% of all "aid" handed out in this country shouldn't even be being done, and no....not because i'm some mean person.....because if society doesn't believe in an individual these days then they are just allowed to give up on themselves. Giving somebody who is quite capable of busting their ass and making their life work free money so they won't have to bust their ass is the largest disservice you can do to anybody. When we're young were we allowed to just give up on doing our homework or chores cause it was just too darn hard then go to the neighbors house next door and rob them because they worked and had money and we wanted what they had????? HELL NO In fact that sounds pretty ridiculous, but it's about what people think would be "fair" anymore. Anybody who has ever lived life at all has hopefully failed at something in their life, because if they do they hopefully try again and succeed and once people prove to themselves....hey, i did that, it was hard but it feels good to do something for myself. The government is taking those experiences away from people....so sad. If people don't make very much money and want to make more....guess what .... if it's not given to them they might have to work two jobs....never killed anybody yet.....and they actually might learn to have a little pride in themselves when they do things for themselves. I think that is WAY more caring than handing someone somebody elses money each month and feeling sorry for them........then they will probably NEVER get themselves out of poverty. So sad that people think they are helping.....all of these young 20 somethings .....by not making them prove to themselves that they can do anything....and should have to if they want to keep up with the Jone's...We need to stop teaching that in order for them to have anything we'll just all agree to steel from the Jone's for them.. Come on people...wake up and stop buying into the discretionary spending myths these politicians use to control so many people and keep them in poverty for their own feel good control they all love so much. Side: Libertarian
I think your cherry picking the bad parts of liberalism and only the good parts of libertarianism. Most liberals don't want handouts for "themselves", they want support for people who many need it. The fact that some people may take advantage of this idea (on welfare and driving a Mercedes) is simply a problem of the implementation and some bad apples. Lets work to get rid of the bad apples instead of throwing out the whole system. I applaud your good work ethic and drive to succeed on your own. Bravo. But what if one day your working in your yard and you have a accident and you loose one of you legs. Your employer tries to support you and you disability but, business is tough, and he says "Sorry, but I just can't keep you on any more. There are so many other people with 2 legs that can do a little bit more work very day...". You search around your town but every employer says the same thing: "You seem like a good guy, but you only have one leg and bill over here has 2". You tell the employers "but I'm a computer guy, I don't need 2 legs to do my job well?", but they argue "all thing being equal, that guy has 2 legs and that could be helpful. Like during a fire drill or something". How would you feel about this? You can't get a job for and arbitrary reason that was no fault of your own? There is no one to compell any employer to hire you. What do you do? Side: Liberal
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