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I whole-heartedly agree. Every chance I get to speak with one a conversation can only be directed their way. Liberals themselves seem to remain ignorant of this; intentionally or not. Their moronic points of view have lead to their moronic status in this debate, and in the minds of many Conservatives and etc.
HAHA! This is laughable. Conservatism is one GIANT contradiction. Example; You cant have an abortion, thats insane! The government should do something! But no don't regulate my business, dont tax me, its none of your business!
If you dont get it yet here is the low down. In a conservatives mind, the government can tell you what to do with your body and can tell you who is allowed to get married. But they still believe the government should stay out of our lives.
So for a conservative, the government has merit on moral issues, but when it comes to economic issues, it has no right to tell us what to do. Its ridiculous
You are misunderstanding conservatism. I liked PrayerFails simple explanation of it:
Liberalism: Less economic freedom, more personal freedom
Conservatism: More economic freedom, less personal freedom (abortions, gay marriage)
Libertarianism: More economic freedom, more personal freedom
So, now, using your logic, liberalism is also one giant contradiction, which I hardly think is true. You need to think critically before posting something like that, you dimwit.
No, libertarianism isn't a contradiction at all. Libertarians firmly believe that the government should stay out of both personal AND economic issues. This is respectable and not contradictory. My argument against conservatism is that how can you tell the government to stay out of our lives and slam it as an evil sort of entity, only to turn around and try to use it when it comes to moral issues?
Look at the patriot act, Conservatives were all for that and it was a complete violation of personal rights and goes against our 4th amendment.
Now to your assertion on Liberals, I find this to be mostly true. Liberals however are not trying to tie down business as much as you would like to believe. It makes more sense to me to intervene in public matters such as bussiness, as opposed to intervening in issues as personal as abortion or gay marriage.
I never said that libertarianism is a contradiction.
My argument against conservatism is that how can you tell the government to stay out of our lives and slam it as an evil sort of entity, only to turn around and try to use it when it comes to moral issues?
That's exactly why. Because they are moral issues. This really has nothing to do with the government.
Why is that 'insane'? You have a particular worldview - opinion, if you will - and believe that anybody with a different position is just plain wrong. That is both presumptuous.
Take, for instance, native Americans. Many of them live in their large one-roomed houses in which a wood-burning stove rests in the middle, a kitchen in one corner, beds in another corner. There are no internal doors, no room - everything is in that one room. You may consider such a lifestyle to be horrible, and may even attempt to demand that the government do something about such 'primitive' living conditions. That does not mean that those conditions are horrible, simply that you (I'm using that word in a very general manner) are so pigheaded that you desire everybody to conform to your standards. Anybody who deviates is an idiot.
Those Indians may like living in such a house, and would resist feverishly if the government attempted to relocate them to what you would call a 'modern' and 'acceptable' house. Why should they be forced to adapt to your specific worldview?
It's exactly the same with abortion, or any other topic at which people differ. Everybody seems to want to impose their will on society - that their word is supreme and nobody else can do anything about it - but that does not make your opinions, or your morals the best choice for society, simply for yourself.
But no don't regulate my business, dont tax me, its none of your business!
Why is it none of their business? How else are they to pay for the many things which you take for granted: paved roads, schools, police and fire departments, etc., etc.
You misinterpreted my example, when i said "You cant have an abortion, that's insane!" I was still in context as to how a conservative thinks. I don't think its insane to either have or not have an abortion. Personally I would not my wife to have an abortion, but I believe that the government has no right to tell a woman what to do with her body.
I do not believe that all conservatives are stupid or that all Liberals are smart. Terminator, you seem well informed, and I agree with your example about the Native Americans. But I don't get to how it has to do with Liberals. What evidence is there that would suggest that Liberals want to force Native Americans to live by a certain standard? First off, our government as a whole has already forced them to assimilate into society. That had nothing to do with Liberalism or Conservatism.
I am fiscally conservative, as are most people, but where i become a Liberal is when it comes to the issue of tolerance. Now I'm not saying that conservatives are all intolerant. But being a Liberal insinuates that you are tolerant of others, and believe in and abundance of personal freedom. "Conservative" as a term implies tradition. As a nation moving forward, in order to blossom we cannot become more traditional, rather we must become more progressive and more tolerant of the way other people are and act.
You misinterpreted my example, when i said "You cant have an abortion, that's insane!" I was still in context as to how a conservative thinks.
You read my response out of context; I knew what you meant.
Personally I would not my wife to have an abortion, but I believe that the government has no right to tell a woman what to do with her body.
Why is a fetus part of a woman's body? She is sharing her body with the fetus/embryo (whatever you want to call it).
I do not believe that all conservatives are stupid or that all Liberals are smart.
Of course not all, but most liberals on this site think that most are.
Terminator, you seem well informed,
Good that you see that; many liberals don't, whereas on other sites I am lauded profusely by the conservatives.
But I don't get to how it has to do with Liberals.
It was simply an example of how an individual or a society can come to hold others' in contempt. It was not liberal or conservative, just more of a 'cautionary tale' to warn you, and other readers, not to be haughty when it comes to other people/ways of life - or, for another interpretation, that just because you think that your way is best, that doesn't mean that everybody will agree with you (i.e. don't force your culture on other people, they like theirs just as much as you like your own - and it goes for personal beliefs, as well; they may seem absurd, but that is simply because they are not yours).
First off, our government as a whole has already forced them to assimilate into society.
Not entirely. In Canada, they can - as far as I know - get free glasses, education, they don't pay taxes, they have their own legal system, etc.
That had nothing to do with Liberalism or Conservatism.
In a way, it does deal with liberalism. That is, globalization, and the rapid loss of individual cultures/identities.
Now I'm not saying that conservatives are all intolerant. But being a Liberal insinuates that you are tolerant of others, and believe in and abundance of personal freedom.
I disagree.
Affirmative action, for one thing, is designed to help minorities; however, it harms the majority (i.e. white men). A relative of mine just recently told me that his boss had, awhile back, been told that 25% of employees needed to be from a 'protected class' - so Negroid or Mongoloid or, I'm pretty sure, female. That would mean he needed to fire a white worker - no matter how good a worker this white man is - and replace him with a member of a minority, whether or not this replacement is good at this job or not!
"Conservative" as a term implies tradition.
I've been trying to decide whether or not I'm a libertarian or an anarchist. I rather dislike government after having had some bad dealings with them. For one, a relative of mine (same one as from above) got bit by a dog while helping his son deliver newspapers. He reported it, and his report was ignored.
However, my dog scratched me with her tooth (she didn't bite, but rather barked and my hand got caught) a few weeks ago (an Irish Setter puppy) and I bled. Being several years behind on my boosters (one is supposed to get them every ten years or so), I decided to go in and get them. What happened? The government got wind of it and sent two men to place this dog under quarantine for ten days! I have many, many more stories to tell on why I hate the government, though not right here.
we must become more progressive and more tolerant of the way other people are and act.
More progressive?
Progressive government - if you meant the government by that, rather than socially/scientifically progressive - that would mean you want even more government!
I'll have to disagree. There is logic and reason besides both ends of the spectrum. What you are hearing is relative to the person you are debating with and how said person came about their values, not to mention your immediate disposition to your opponent, and the factors that disposition is composed of; such as your ability to emulate, compromise, and respect.
Funny, that's exactly the same attitude I get from dimwitted think-they-know-it-all conservatives who say that Liberals are idiots for not agreeing with them! In fact, you are an idiot just for making such a moronic statement.
... that or liberals consistently supply logical facts and statistics to support arguments, as conservatives continue to make up anecdotes and "what if" situations with no basis in reality,
and after such nonsense for 4 or 5 exchanges we say "I give up, you're an idiot."
That has been my experience.
And do you have any links to a debate you won on the conservative side Terminator? Or is it another of those things conservatives just kind of make up after the fact?
Then why is it that I supply source after source - whereas liberals rarely supply so much as a single source - and yet liberals still consistently claim that my sources are bullshit.
Like the time you used the lochness monster myth, as evidence humans and dinosaurs co-existed? I still cannot help but to be amused by that. We must remember that it is not QUANTITY but QUALITY that matters when giving sources. If you are listing conspiracy websites, and blogsites as your sources, you are better off using no sources at all.
The problem liberals have with it, however, is that I use conservative sources. They trust liberal sources, and won't even consider anything else. They are convinced that their liberal sources are telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, while anything that is not liberal is a giant conspiracy. They will not even consider news with a conservative slant as being trustworthy, and yet they expect me to accept liberal-slanted news.
Everybody - every source - has a 'slant'. CNN, MSNBC, FOX: everybody. Liberals - most likely yourself included - can't seem to realize that liberal bias is still bias.
Well, those are just a few prime examples. There are a lot of objective sources, you just have to be able to find them. You're not always going to have usable supporting data that's objective, that's a given in debate.
lol, didn't you recently cite a source on why Obama is evil, from someone who also wrote pieces on separating people by their race? Yes you did, that is a bullshit source.
1. Even with your 6k points I almost gaurantee I've provided more links.
2. Newmax, Fox, and insane people on the internet are not sources.
3. That you have the likes of MegaDittos coming to your defense should give you a clue as to the accuracy of this assertion of yours.
Since when is Fox not a source? It is the number one news source and has been for over eight years! I don't quite understand this statement. you -> :0 -"Hey I'm davidh and I am also a liberal!"
So, basically what you are saying is that the only valid sources are liberal.
from someone who also wrote pieces on separating people by their race?
You disagree with him, thus everything he ever writes is invalid?
1. Even with your 6k points I almost gaurantee I've provided more links.
Prove it; why don't you count each one?
2. Newmax, Fox, and insane people on the internet are not sources.
They are only 'insane' because they are not liberals, right? Fox is considered by many to be a very good source; however, they're political stance is different then yours and that, in your mind, taints everything they ever write, publish, air, etc.
3. That you have the likes of MegaDittos coming to your defense should give you a clue as to the accuracy of this assertion of yours.
Okay, let me get this straight: you don't like somebody, and because he agrees with me on some topics, my stance is wrong?
I've never actually paid much attention to him - I rarely pay attention to usernames unless they are a close ally/enemy.
If you honestly believe that only liberals have this attitude you are either very deep in denial or you have never seen a political debate in your entire life. It's generalizations such as this that is the problem with American politics today. It's to the point where we aren't even discussing issues anymore we're just attacking the other side.
Actually, the farther to a side you are, the more likely you are to be an idiot and mentally unstable. Just listen to talk radio for either side. What ever happened to centrists?
Don't listen to Terminator, he turns into a troll after midnight or something.
I feel this is a fair description that does a good job of putting personal opinions aside link
As you can see, theoretically there is something to be said for each side.
To put it into a UK perspective (your party system) - your party system obviously is far different than ours. A US liberal would be a combination of labour, conservative, and lib dem party. The modern US conservative would range anywhere from Conservative to Sinn Fein.
As you would guess from this, US politics is tilted far further right than the European nations, and especially UK and Scandinavian countries. However it should be noted, that because it is a two party system, we have a lot more overlap of ideals within a party.
Many Republicans in the US also bring a new aspect found rarely in Europe, that is a love affair with mixing Politics and Religion. Anywhere from 10-20% of registered Republicans support views that would put religion before state, and make the US a country based on Christian idealism. This though is not the overriding idea behind the Republican party, but a large enough portion that it should be mentioned.
It is actually difficult to compare the systems because different issues such as the above play a far bigger role in our politics, while at the same time, we do not have parties dedicated to things like "Texas Independence" as you do for things like Welsh or Irish Independence.
iamdavidh > Thanks. Thats roughly my impression of US politics. But you have explained it well and given me more to go on.
My experience of some Americans, especially on "debate sites" is that they regard a Liberalist as some kind of Satan. Its as if you are talking about a paedophile !!!!
Liberals are people who desire to destroy freedom and the American Dream. They think that minorities are more important than the majority, they think that anybody should be allowed to do anything they want to themselves. They think that American soldiers are expendable, just so long as not a single civilian is killed during war.
that anybody should be allowed to do anything they want to themselves.
Shouldn't they? As long as they are only hurting themselves then what concern is it of the Government?
They think that American soldiers are expendable, just so long as not a single civilian is killed during war.
Soldiers are willing participants in war, civilians are not. Soldiers are putting their lives on the line to protect civilians, foreign or domestic. This I tell you as an enlisted man myself.
Terminator > Conservatism is extreme right ??? by definition this must surely restrict freedom !! Politicians decide on when to got to war - just as Blair and Bush GW, invaded Iraq based on lies. Killing hundreds of thousands women and children.
You seem to be saying that you will accept anything as long as it stems from a right wing conservative.