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Life
He has risen from the dead, and being united to Him, we have been risen spiritually and we will be risen physically with Him! Having died to sin and risen to life in Christ, we are able to look in faith towards the eternal life that has been set before us with our God.
John 11:25-26a ~ "Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die.'"
1 Corinthians 15:20-22,54-56 ~ "But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive... When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: / 'Death is swallowed up in victory.' / 'O death, where is your victory? / O death, where is your sting?' / The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ."
Romans 6:5-11 ~ "For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus."
Colossians 3:1-4 ~ "If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth. For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory."
There once was a man who continuously cut off people's hands, until one day he said, "I will cut off my own hand, and then I will no longer cut off hands."
So, he cut off his own hand, and from that day on, people loved him very much for cutting off his own hand, for their hands were now safe... But only under one condition... He must be held in the highest of regards... And he would really appreciate it if people gathered together once a week to show their appreciation for him.
When people began pointing out how silly it was to worship the man for attempting to free them from his own wrath, others became anxious and said things like, "Watch what you say or he's going to cut off your hand!" Or out of fear that the man heard the remarks, they would press the people to beg for his forgiveness.
Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Romans tells us that Jesus died to show the righteousness of God, so that God might be the just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Christ. The idea is that the cross was to show all the characteristics of God.
Then you posted it for no particular reason, therefore it strengthens it... At least in my opinion, since this is a debate.
I posted it to answer your, "how silly it was to worship the man for attempting to free them from his own wrath," part.
What is wrong with my analogy?
Cutting off a hand is not equivalent to the paying off of one's debt. When Jesus said "It is finished." the word He was using was a financial term. People don't think it is silly to say that a judge simply paid for a debt that another person owed Him.
I posted it to answer your, "how silly it was to worship the man for attempting to free them from his own wrath," part.
I still fail to see how that refutes my point or makes the reason seem less silly.
Cutting off a hand is not equivalent to the paying off of one's debt.
Actually, the cutting off of the hands was supposed to be a metaphor for hell... So, my analogy was flawed. Rather than cutting off his entire hand, he cut off a finger... But he was a bit more extreme with others.
When Jesus said "It is finished." the word He was using was a financial term.
Which term is that?
People don't think it is silly to say that a judge simply paid for a debt that another person owed Him.
But they would think it was silly if the judge paid off the debts and said, "if you want this to count, you need to worship me... And if you don't, then you're going to be tortured."
I still fail to see how that refutes my point or makes the reason seem less silly.
God did it as the official act of justice. He could have just waved his hand around and forgiven them; instead, He wanted to show His justice in a personal and experiential manner.
Actually, the cutting off of the hands was supposed to be a metaphor for hell... So, my analogy was flawed. Rather than cutting off his entire hand, he cut off a finger... But he was a bit more extreme with others.
Sin merits hell, which is a debt to be paid. Its the logical end to sin--death. So, Jesus stepping in and paying the debt of death makes perfect sense.
Which term is that?
The word "It is finished" is a financial term.
But they would think it was silly if the judge paid off the debts and said, "if you want this to count, you need to worship me... And if you don't, then you're going to be tortured."
God did it as the official act of justice. He could have just waved his hand around and forgiven them; instead, He wanted to show His justice in a personal and experiential manner.
He could have forgiven them thousands of years earlier.
I find it kind of funny that an all-knowing God decided it would be best to reveal himself in the ancient Middle East, rather than somewhere during the internet age.
The word "It is finished" is a financial term.
Uhh... Where did you get that idea?
Jesus only died for His elect.
Oh, yeah... You're a Calvinist.
So, what about these verses:
John 1:29 "The next day he saw Jesus coming to him, and said, 'Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!'"
1 John 2:2 "and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world."
1 Timothy 4:10 "For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers."
He could have forgiven them thousands of years earlier.
He did.
Uhh... Where did you get that idea?
Thats the term in Greek..
John 1:29 "The next day he saw Jesus coming to him, and said, 'Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!'"
1 John 2:2 "and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world."
1 Timothy 4:10 "For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers."
What about it? The idea of "the whole world" is an aspect of region and nationality. The Jews believed that they alone were God's chosen people, being primarily ignorant of the fact that the 'Israel' that will be saved is a spiritual nationality, not a physical one: the physical one only was to point to the spiritual one, as the Old Testament does for many things (e.g. the flood pointing to baptism, the passover for Christ's death, David for Christ Himself, etc.). Thus, the Bible saying not only 'ours' but the 'whole world' is an aspect of the promise being extended to all lands, which it is, and not to only Israel (physical, not spiritual). No one's denying that.
Moreover, God does desire for all men to be saved; that doesn't mean that His absolute will is in accord with that desire. I can want two things at one time, while I can only have one. So, simply because I want one thing, and but I get another thing, because I want it more, it doesn't mean that I don't want it.
He died for their sins thousands of years earlier?
Thats the term in Greek.
Well, that is what I wanted you to tell me. What is the word in Greek?
What about it? The idea of "the whole world" is an aspect of region and nationality.
Doesn't John 2:2 contradict that?
The Jews believed that they alone were God's chosen people, being primarily ignorant of the fact that the 'Israel' that will be saved is a spiritual nationality, not a physical one: the physical one only was to point to the spiritual one, as the Old Testament does for many things (e.g. the flood pointing to baptism, the passover for Christ's death, David for Christ Himself, etc.). Thus, the Bible saying not only 'ours' but the 'whole world' is an aspect of the promise being extended to all lands, which it is, and not to only Israel (physical, not spiritual). No one's denying that.
Show me the evidence for that particular interpretation of 'Israel' being correct.
Moreover, God does desire for all men to be saved; that doesn't mean that His absolute will is in accord with that desire. I can want two things at one time, while I can only have one. So, simply because I want one thing, and but I get another thing, because I want it more, it doesn't mean that I don't want it.
Couldn't God's omnipotence help him out with that?
He died for their sins thousands of years earlier?
From Genesis 3, the Messiah was promised. Hebrews 11 tells of the faith in God in which they received their commendation; all men are saved but the same thing, and that thing is namely Christ.
Revelation 13:8 says, "and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain."
Doesn't John 2:2 contradict that?
Not at all. He is the propitiation for our (i.e. the Jews) sins, and not for ours (i.e. the Jews) only but also for the sins of the whole world (i.e. all types of people from all corners of the globe).
Show me the evidence for that particular interpretation of 'Israel' being correct.
Romans 9:6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. 9 For this is what the promise said: “About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” 10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
Couldn't God's omnipotence help him out with that?
God's omnipotence can't make Him desire for all to be saved, but also for all not to be saved. He can't make A equal not A, though you could argue He is above logic, which means this verse is not a problem anyways.
What do you think this is, a Bible study forum? I mean, my apologies for assuming you were making a point on a debate site. How very unreasonable of me.
Well, considering that I don't have any Bible verses up there that say Scripture is God breathed, or anything saying that the Bible is trustworthy and inherent, it would be considered irrational to argue against that point. Its basically and essentially a straw man and red herring.