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Debate Info

4
11
The Native Americans The Jewish Community
Debate Score:15
Arguments:8
Total Votes:16
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 The Native Americans (3)
 
 The Jewish Community (5)

Debate Creator

Warlin(1212) pic



Who got the raw deal?

Not a lot of people like to talk about the USA's terrible terrible past and what we did to the Native Americans. Everyone kind of just files it under "Oh it happened, lets just forget about it."

But loads of people talk about the Hallucast. In my opinion, what we did to the Natives was far worse than what Hilter did to the Jews. Well, we didn't do the concentration camps but disease infested blankets, forcing them to convert to Christianity or DIE, and stealing all of their land just seems like they got a pretty raw deal to me.

So, who suffered more? The Jewish community during WWII or the Native Americans during the 'taming' of North America and the erecting of the USA?

The Native Americans

Side Score: 4
VS.

The Jewish Community

Side Score: 11
1 point

Dude I'm sorry but we were total pricks to the Native Americans. I honestly don't think there is a thing on this earth we could sacrifice to atone for that.

Side: The Native Americans
ThePyg(6743) Disputed
2 points

Who's this "we" that you're talking about? I never killed a Native American nor did I make them move anywhere.

I think you have the settlers from the 1500s to the 1800s to blame for that.

Side: Impossible debate
1 point

If I had to choose, I would have to say Native Americans only because it has been happening for almost 500 years. although jewish people got their homeland back, Native Americans are yet to get their rightful homeland back or their own country....and unfortunatelly most probably never will. Claim by someone that the land was given back to the Native Americans such as Indian Reservations is a word play. Relocating and killing, aka ethnic cleansing, is not the same thing as getting homeland again. Jews did suffer in the Holocaust, no one can deny that, but at least they were able to get what is rightfully theirs, Native Americans didnt.

Side: The Native Americans
1 point

I also agree that they can't be compared, but I'm posting on this side because of outcomes. The Jews survived, as a population, the Holocaust and were able to rebuild and strengthen their population. Also, most people look back on WWII with compassion for the Jewish people and reverence for their bravery in going through the ordeal. They did go through several years of hardships, but they're still here and the memories of the fallen are honored.

Native Americans are a forgotten peoples. They were wiped out and their culture is constantly misinterpreted, like in Peter Pan (the song "Why does the red man say 'How?'" or something like that.) In a sense, they are no longer Native Americans because their culture is destroyed and their peoples are scattered and have become known as alcoholics and casino owners.

Side: Impossible debate
3 points

Let me start by saying this isn't really a fair debate, as both groups were terrorized in horrendous ways. It's just unfair to compare victimization.

The Native Americans were practically wiped out for all intents and purposes, had their land stolen, and were given paltry consolations after fighting hard to get them. They were nearly wiped out because of disease, both purposely and accidentally, as well as the advantages technology gave Europeans in terms of weaponry. They were marched across the nation, barefoot, in the freezing cold, and many starved and died along the way. Furthermore, their culture and heritage have been completely perverted by the influx of Europeans into their land.

The Jews, on the other hand, were rounded up in an attempt to wipe them out, which failed. On that point, the Native Americans had it worse. Nonetheless, six million Jewish people died (in addition to millions more who were gypsies, prisoners of war, homosexuals, etc.), so it's not as though they escaped a terrible fate here. They were starved, separated from their families, and forced to work and live in the worst of conditions. Babies were thrown into incinerators, people were sent to gas chambers with the knowledge they were being sent to die, and brutal experiments were performed on human subjects. I think in this way, the Jewish were subject to worse in terms of actions against them.

So basically the question comes to which is worse the successful near-wipeout of a population and culture through horrific means or the unsuccessful attempted-wipeout of a population through worse means? I'm not sure we can compare.

Side: Impossible debate
2 points

I agree. These aren't really two topics that can fairly compared. The Jews definitely went through some serious inhumane and hellish situations because of Hitler and the losers that decided to follow and obey him. Nothing can really be compared to the Holocaust; it was just horrendously awful.

The Native Americans were definitely treated like shit too. In fact, what the Europeans did to the Natives to gain control of America, is the main foundation of why I think this country is a corrupted and crass place. America is better than other countries just because we're a fascist Democracy? Not in my opinion. Europeans forced ownership of something that is in no ways, rightfully their owns. It's an insult to Native American's, to their culture, and to this country. Native Americans deserve a lot more respect and payback than they've been given.

So, really, two totally different situations. The Natives have been robbed of peace, ownership, and respect, and the Jews were robbed of any sense of humanity, as they were treated as if they were annoying pests.

Side: Impossible debate
ThePyg(6743) Disputed
2 points

According the Milgram Experiment, if you were a German working for the government just before the Nazi Party took power, the odds of you helping the Nazi Party are pretty good.

Side: Impossible debate
2 points

This is a joke right?! What our forefathers did to the Natives of America was bad, but the Native Americans were given a fighting chance. They didn't enslave and kill the Natives, they converted them and encouraged them to live on missions. And those that rebelled had a fighting chance against the Europeans. What Hitler did to the Jews was genocide! GENOCIDE! You can't even try to say that converting the Natives and taking their land was genocide! Taking a life is far worse than anything else. The Europeans only killed the Natives that rebelled; Hitler tried to kill ALL the Jews!

Side: The Jewish Community